450 bc?
This heavenly event was to only those that knew the stars, right?
The rest were insiders like family and friends except the magi. Anyone know of which angel appeared to joseph, was it in a dream or literally? I gather the shepherd event the angels literally appeared.
I'm copying and pasting the replyies i got here now to read and study. I was worried about posting here that you peeps would be rude to me because of my beliefs but glad i did, found some cool info - i'm very busy so it will take me a bit but i will post an in-depth summary of my conclusions possibly, we'll see but i apprecte your posts and inquiries in return i'll give you a link to my research on the subject and more importantly you can find referance links there for you to look into the data yourself in case i don't touch all points inquired of me in this post.
https://sites.google.com/site/beliefsofmagi/
Food for thought - tracing judiasm of that time period with its pharasee, persian influence, i find fascinating we have jesus use paradise himself and i'm enjoying the data upon all this you all gave me.
I'm just wondering about others thoughts on this topic, would like to compare them to my current conclusions especially the zoroastrian ties to christianity part which i've studied much more than the judaic elements by the way so a welcome refresh here but in passing study i have found that they all are intertwined around the time of jesus even other types of priests could assume the term magi it could mean anything after this time period but the persian ones were the reknowned ones to those in the know the zoroastrian priests are called mobeds nowadays. I'll paste the way i look at the zoroastrian-christian ties as consisting myself at the same time the groups of 'magi' are more ancient than zoroaster who gathered his group of them together while there was a constant dis-harmony with the others. As advisors to the ones in rule of the kingdoms, manipulation of power for personal gain was and is a tell tale of underligning dysfunctional mind-sets of those who did not stay focused. Some spread good some evil, like jesus said from the thoughts that their heart contained, zoroaster formed the group desginated the good religion although it is dabated if he was more of a philosopher than prophet.
*Jesus is the "father" of Christianity.
*The Nazarene sect was the "father" of Jesus.
*The Essene sect was the "father" of the Nazarenes.
*The Magussean sect was the "father" of the Essenes.
*The Good Religion was the "father" of the Magussean sect.
The Good Religion of Zoroaster is the Great-Great-Great Grand-Father of Christianity. So much born into cultural zoroastrianism due to an allegence to a king *surprised?* are a closed community, mind you these magi - mobeds - recorded the old avestan even though they couldn't read it because of tradition and when compared to sankrit scholars finally could derive meaning there was a composition of a rhyming nature, i'm not a scholar but i've heard it stated this adds to how complete the very intruiging and inspiring text is without any lost data or added data that would throw the numeric rhyming system off in the original. Modern zoroastrianism uses these 'gathas' as there only text really discarding most of the valuable thought on the savior, which i'll include at the end of this post. I believe joseph and mary did take jesus to the land of ancient knowledge - egypt probably funded by the gold of the magi but those magi combining the zoroastrian base with astrological *star* knowledge cared far to much about jesus than to simply respectfully go back to their country another route without making future plans to see the child, no dissing st. matthew i know he did the best he could do to convey the whole story which is quite an amazing and inspiring one we find in jesus.
The christmas story we find in nativity scenes is a combination of matthew and luke from my understanding, i would place the magi off east arriving as soon as possible lol - wonder how long it took them, did't herod slay infants 2 and under? What influental persons, male or female, to get away from that evil king intact. God has a way of bringing things to pass that need to be how horrible the ancient society had to be a subject of this animal wearing kings clothes, hope he had a deserving fitting end and or is repaying for the life he wasted and realize the extent of his confusionabout morality and doing unto others. It's time for society to wake up and ellect leaders to estabish good, maybe we can finally eliminate these tyrant types we have seen for ages from having any power at all except it's chosen by a concencus of the people. Let the lord and the leader be chosen zoroaster said so the chosen one can rebilibate those who have been wrongly treated, a simple but key element of zoroastrianism in it's gathic form.
Zoroastrianism is my base foundation with a heavy sprinkle of the astrology arts of the magi whom i find inspiring i love jesus so yes i am firmly christian too but for me in a very strict use of the term since i have issues with the bible as without error don't get me wrong i believe the word of god is there from the research i did on bible codes and i love the story of christmas but make everyday christmas in my heart and focus on learning about jesus from what i can comprehend him teaching from the four gospels so that's my christian foundation by the way. I got saved in my early 20's and started seeking the truth about god which i never would have imagined where it would lead, what a ride. I know a few zoroastrians and others very familiar with it if i can't answer your inquiry about it and or on more of what was taught by zoroaster i hope again my web-page and resourse links could do so in my abscence.
Here is a little info i learned about zoroaster's date although ledgend has it that zoroaster was a given name for the community leader lineage of the group he founded in antiquity, pre-history - The gathas come from somewhere and the content speaks for itself i love how they are short and simple, just like one would want a foundation to be so it doesn't topple. Zoroaster's birth is shrouded in mystery, Greek sources place him as far back as 6,000 to 7,000 B.C., while modern scholars place his birth between 1,500 to 1,800 B.C. Oral tradition among Parsis places him between 4,000 to 5,000 B.C.
Maybe we'll be able to find the knowledge in stone our ancestors left us long ago which is underwater now since the melting of ice began around 10,000 years ago - there is probably so much to find, i've heard of underwater taverns full of books with metallic pages and think we are astrologically moving towards enlightenment as knowledge is increasing and the teachings of the mysterious 2000 year age of religion we finally are getting a glimpse to what it meant all along. Before that was the age of warfare and we are still learning democracy instead of warfare, the light of enlightenment will illuminate this well but like an age it peaks here or there and takes time.
Thanks again for a good welcome outside my comfort zone hope i answered some of what was inquired of me, you all took time to research and write posts for me so i wanted to try to write enough back for you all without being able to go over every point until i research your posts better.
Hope you found what you inquired about here if not please point it out to me, sorry for being pressed for time before, happens a lot to me, and the short replies hope i made it up to you all without this being long and boring lacking in any usable data . . . please by all means carry on and thanks again.
. . .Oh, here's the zoroastrian texts about a savior that are my favorite. A universal concept for them instead of just for the jews although of course god wouldn't leave the jews or anyone out - seems closest to original thought concerning the matter of the 'tie' between the two and i can see jesus in everyone of them, can you?
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"Concerning the marvellousness of Soshyant as to splendour and glory of person, it says that 'when the coming of the last rotation of those rotations of the seasons of Aushedar-mah occurs, the man Soshyant is born whose food is spiritual and body sunny (that is, his body is as radiant as the sun);' also this, that 'he looks on all sides with six-eyed power (6-doisarih), and sees the remedy for persecution by the fiend.'
That will cleave unto the victorious Saoshyant and his helpers, when he shall restore the world, which will (thenceforth) never grow old and never die, never decaying and never rotting, ever living and ever increasing, and master of its wish, when the dead will rise, when life and immortality will come, and the world will be restored at its wish;
The renovation arises; and the triumph of the completion, which is through an ordinance by Soshyant, is through what occurs when through the ordinance there is thus a decree which sets aside all distress from the creatures, and gives the ordinance to the whole material existence, that which is living and also that which is dead.
Soshyant, -- the last bringer of religion for mankind from God and the embellisher of the world through religious deeds, -- he, who will make mankind walk in purity, -- is the chief and lord of the last men; he, in accordance with the will and desire of the Creator, will be the bringer of His religion at the time of the End, and will be the giver of perfect beauty to the work of rendering the world pure, free from harm and fit for paradise, -- which work was (first commenced) through Gayomard.
That maiden, who is Gobak-abu, walks up to the water; she that is the mother of that testifying Soshyant who is the guide to conveying away the opposition of the destroyer, and her former lineage is from Vohu-roko-i Frahanyan in the family of Isadvastar, the son of Zartosht that is brought forth by Arang. 16. 'That maiden whose title is All-overpowerer is thus all-overpowering, because through giving birth she brings forth him who overpowers all, both the affliction owing to demons, and also that owing to mankind.' 17. Then she sits in that water, when she is fifteen years old, and it introduces into the girl him 'whose name is the Triumphant Benefiter, and his title is the Body-maker; such a benefiter as benefits (savinedo) the whole embodied existence, and such a body-maker alike possessing body and possessing life, as petitions about the disturbance of the embodied existences and mankind.' 18. Not before that has she associated with men; nor yet afterwards, when she becomes pregnant, has she done so before the time when she gives birth. 19. When that man becomes thirty years old, the sun stands still in the zenith of the sky for the duration of thirty days and nights, and it arrives again at that place where it was appointed by allotment.
He that is united with (or is a companion of) the (good) religion, attains to such desires as will exist in the advantageous one, (i.e. Soshyant) the (future) revealer of the (good) religion unto the people of this world.
The renovation of the universe in the words of Ohrmazd to Zartosht, thus: 'I have produced the effecter of the renovation, the causer of righteousness, Soshyant, of whom mankind say that he does not come; and yet he will come, for the righteous, with that glory which becomes all-brilliance.'
Soshyant will obtain the ownership of both these khorehs (majesties) together, for the purpose of propagating the good religion, And he will perform all beneficial things relating to the matter. Again, the immense efforts which will be kept up by him will he (directed) to the work of giving prosperity to the generous, power to the wise and justice to the just.