The Gospel and repentance TOWARD...

JLR1300

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The Gospel and Repentance TOWARD … :)

Normally, the Bible tells us to believe in Jesus in order to be saved. Occasionally, however, it tells us to repent and believe. Is repentance necessary or only faith?

The Apostle Paul tells us something that is very important in Acts chapter 20. Paul tells the Christians of his day that he had always been faithful to preach the truth. He says in verse 21 that he was… “testifying to Jews and also to Greeks repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.” So for Paul preaching the truth meant preaching repentance toward God as well as faith in Jesus Christ.

Now this is an important comment by Paul because it teaches us a couple of things. First, it shows us that Paul considered repentance to be part of the message that sinners need to hear. It wasn’t just a message for Jews, it was for Greeks as well. It was for everyone. Second, it tells us that repentance has a DIRECTION. It was repentance TOWARD God. The Gospel tells us to repent toward God and have faith in Jesus. Now that is very interesting but what does it mean? To answer that, we must first answer the question… what does REPENTANCE mean? Well the Greek word for repentance is metanoia. Metanoia literally means to change your mind about something. It means to completely change your thinking about things. Now a person can repent about almost anything. I can believe that the Republican party is the worst political party in America. Then I can repent of that. I can change my mind completely and believe that the Republican party is the best party in America. Now that is repentance. However, it is not repentance toward God, it is repentance TOWARD Republicianism.

So to repent means to change your mind. That is repentance in general. But what is repentance TOWARD GOD? Well repentance toward God means to completely change your thinking about God. That’s it, plain and simple. That is an important teaching which must accompany the Gospel. In order to be saved the unsaved person must change his thinking about God and he must have faith in Jesus Christ. But why must the unsaved person change his or her thinking about God? Well the reason is because the unsaved individual always harbors some misconceptions about God.

Now sometimes a person must change his or her thinking about God in order to be saved because he or she is an atheist. It is obvious that if you don’t believe that God exists then you cannot believe in His Son and be saved unless first you change your mind about God and believe in His existence.

More commonly, the unsaved person believes that God exists but doesn’t believe that God is the KIND OF GOD that the Bible describes. The Bible describes God as being one who is infinitely holy and unbendingly just. Since He is completely holy He is very concerned about our lives and since He is totally just He will not overlook our sins. God is holy and just and, therefore, will condemn us and punish us for our sins.

The problem is that sinners don’t really believe that. The unsaved person always imagines that God is basically a laid-back old Grandpa who overlooks our sin, and is more or less amused by our transgressions and foolishness. They imagine that God is like a school teacher who grades on the curve and who may talk tough but in the end almost never actually flunks anyone. This is all wrong thinking. The sinner is sadly mistaken. The sinner needs to completely change his thinking about God. He must repent. He needs to reverse His opinion of God and believe that God is a infinitely holy and just God who is going to punish him if he does not seek mercy and forgiveness and obtain salvation.

The another misconception about God is that the unsaved person believes that God is the type of God who is willing to bend the rules. If we have sinned, then perhaps, instead of punishing us, God will bend the rules if we do some good deeds to make up for our transgressions. But God is not like that. If we have sinned we must be punished and He is not the kind of God that will bend the rules. We cannot escape punishment by doing a few good deeds to make up for our sins. God is not like we think He is. Salvation is not by works.

So we see that the unsaved person must completely change his thinking about God. He must believe that God is holy and just and will certainly punish him for his sins if he doesn’t obtain salvation through Christ.

So to put this in perspective, in the Bible we are told to repent and believe in Jesus. We must change our thinking about God and trust Jesus for salvation. Instead of thinking that God will overlook our sins, we must change our minds about Him and realize that we are already headed for His just condemnation. Unless something changes we are going to be punished… so we must put our faith in Jesus and His shed blood to cover our sins and make us right with God.

Now sometimes people think that to repent and believe in Christ means to repent OF SIN. They believe that we must turn from sin in order to be saved. There are two things that are wrong with that idea. The first is that we are told to repent TOWARD GOD. The Bible never says to repent OF SIN for salvation. I realize that well meaning people say that, but that isn’t what the scriptures say. I challenge you to find a single verse that says to repent OF SIN in order to be saved.

The second reason it is incorrect to say that a person must repent of sin in order to be saved is because it contradicts the other thing we are supposed to do, namely, believe in Christ for salvation. To believe in Christ for salvation means to look to Jesus and his death on the cross to save us instead of depending on our works. So we are to depend upon Christ instead of on our works. That is faith.

However, if we tell a person to repent OF SIN in order to be saved we are telling him to look to his works for salvation. So we tell him to look to his works for salvation and then we tell him to have faith in Jesus and to look to Christ alone for salvation. This is a contradiction. Turning from sin is a work. Do you need me to prove that statement?

Okay. The Prophet Jonah was sent to Nineveh to announce that God was going to destroy their city. In Jonah 3:10 it says that, “…God saw their WORKS, that they turned from their evil way…” Thus, God decided not to destroy their city. This wasn’t about eternal salvation it was about avoiding the physical destruction of Nineveh. Nevertheless, it shows us that God considers turning from evil a work. In fact it is a very difficult work. Sinners are not called upon to do difficult works or even easy works for salvation. They are called upon to change their thinking about God (repent) and believe and trust in Jesus and His blood alone for salvation (faith) and not trust in their works.

Now at this point you will say to me. Aren’t we told in the Bible to bring forth the fruits of repentance? Yes, we are. In the book of Matthew, John the Baptist tells the people to bring forth fruit or works in keeping with repentance. However, it is a mistake to confuse the fruits of repentance with repentance itself. To repent is to change our thinking about God and realize that He is holy and just and is against sin. The FRUIT of that repentance is turning from our evil ways … that is, turning from our sin and living for Jesus. First we must change our minds about God and believe in Christ and be justified and forgiven. Then that changed mind and that faith, along with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, will produce the fruit of repentance which is the work of turning from evil and being godly. Do not get the cart before the horse. First we must have repentance toward God and faith in Christ and justification will follow… and only then will be be able to do the work of turning from evil. :)
 

98cwitr

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2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may mourn over many of those who have sinned in the past and not repented of the impurity, immorality and sensuality which they have practiced.

Job 36:10 He makes them listen to correction and commands them to repent of their evil.

Jeremiah 18:8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned.

Yep...repent OF Sin/evil

We must repent OF something, and TO/TOWARD someone. It's like forgiveness. In order to ask for forgiveness, I must confess what I did to the person I have wronged, so that they might forgive me. :)

I am in accordance with your final paragraph though...well stated :thumbsup:
 
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JLR1300

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2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may mourn over many of those who have sinned in the past and not repented of the impurity, immorality and sensuality which they have practiced.

Job 36:10 He makes them listen to correction and commands them to repent of their evil.

Jeremiah 18:8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned.

Yep...repent OF Sin/evil

We must repent OF something, and TO/TOWARD someone. It's like forgiveness. In order to ask for forgiveness, I must confess what I did to the person I have wronged, so that they might forgive me. :)

I am in accordance with your final paragraph though...well stated :thumbsup:
Here is what I said...
" The Bible never says to repent of sin FOR SALVATION. I realize that well meaning people say that, but that isn’t what the scriptures say. I challenge you to find a single verse that says to repent OF SIN in order to be SAVED. "

Sorry I didn't make myself clear .... I was trying to say that you cannot show a single verse which says to repent OF SIN when the verse is talking about becoming a Christian or getting saved or justified. In fact, I think I did say that. I am well aware that the Bible speaks of repenting of sin with regards to Christians who have sinned or with regard to avoiding physical destruction. Often times God told Israel that He would send armies against them and kill them if they didn't repent of sin or turn from evil.
 
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98cwitr

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Sorry I didn't make myself clear .... I was trying to say that you cannot show a single verse which says to repent OF SIN when the verse is talking about becoming a Christian or getting saved or justified. I am well aware that the Bible speaks of repenting of sin with regards to Christians who have sinned or with regard to avoiding physical destruction. Often times God told Israel that He would send armies against them and kill them if they didn't repent of sin or turn from evil.

You were clear, Im sorry to have insinuated otherwise.

So God, in His Wrath toward them, would kill them, but they were still saved? That doesn't really make much sense to me. That said, I dont think salvation comes from anywhere or any action but God. Romans 1:16, Romans 9:16. So you're right, repentance does not grant salvation, that would be works salvation.
 
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DeaconDean

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John L. Dagg wrote:

DUTY OF REPENTANCE.[1]

We have seen that religion is not confined to the intellect, but brings into exercise the strongest feelings of the heart. Love to God, and delight in his will and works, have been shown to be essential elements; and these are affections which do not play on the surface, but move the soul from its lowest depths. If, in our study of religious truth, we have proceeded thus far without feeling, without strong feeling, our labor has been unprofitable, and we would do well to begin anew. No time should be lost in securing the main end for which God's truth should be studied; and if heretofore we have treated it as we do the truths of other science, we should persevere in this course no longer, lest the profane use of sacred things become habitual, and provoke God to deny us his illuminating grace.

Love to God, and delight in his will and works, are holy and pleasurable exercises of the mind; but religion in a sinful being is necessarily attended with pain. To be at ease in sin, is a proof that the heart is dead, "dead in trespasses and sins." Every one whom the spirit of God quickens, becomes sensible of sin, and feels the pang of a broken heart on account of it. The anguish of remorse may be alleviated by a sense of pardoning mercy; but the joy of pardon cannot stop the flow of penitence. Like the woman to whom much had been forgiven, the believer, while receiving his pardon with overflowing joy, does not lose his sense of sin, but is ready to wash the feet of his Lord with tears. These tears have their sweetness.

The necessity of repentance is abundantly taught in the sacred volume. The language of Christ is explicit, "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."[2] We have no right to consider our selves in the way to eternal life, if we are strangers to repentance. Nor will it suffice to have been at some time alarmed about our sin. A false repentance, which needs to be repented of, satisfies many a deluded soul. Genuine repentance is a deep-felt and abiding sense of sin, a condemnation of ourselves before God on account of it, a turning away from it with abhorrence and loathing, and a fixed purpose of soul never again to commit it, or be at peace with it. This sense of sin drives the soul to Christ, and unites with the exercise of faith in Christ, to distinguish genuine religion from the counterfeits with which the world abounds.

Reason teaches that it is the duty of men, as sinners, to repent of their sins. When one man has given just occasion of offence to another, by the common consent of mankind it is his duty to be sorry for his offence . If we have no sorrow for having offended God, we treat him with less respect than is due to a fellow-worm. Not to be sorry is to justify the offence , and virtually to repeat it. God searches our hearts, and knows our inmost thoughts; and, if we remain impenitent after having sinned against him, it is as if we told him to his face that we did right to treat his authority with contempt. Our impenitence insults the majesty of heaven, and defies his wrath.

But the duty of repentance is not left to be inferred from the common sense of mankind. It is true, that no command to repent is found in the decalogue. That summary of duty was given to men as men, and not as sinners. It was not designed to restore man to the favor of God, and, therefore, did not treat with them as sinners. But when the gospel began to be preached, its first proclamation was, "Repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."[3] In all the ministry of the gospel, this is the first duty required of men. Without it, not a step can be taken in the way of return to God; and, without it, there is no possibility of obtaining the divine favor. "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." It is, therefore, of the very highest importance to understand what repentance is, and to have such views of truth as will tend to produce it in our hearts.

When we approach a fellow-man whom we have offended, to offer to him our confessions, and seek his pardon, it is expected that we shall be sensible of having done wrong, shall regret the deed, blame ourselves for it, acknowledge his right to be displeased, and resolve, perhaps promise, to do so no more. All this must exist in repentance toward God, if we do not mean to repeat our insults to the Searcher of hearts. We may deceive a man like ourselves with professions of penitence that are insincere, and designed merely to propitiate him, but God cannot be deceived, and to attempt it is to mock him.

In order to sincere repentance toward God, it is indispensable that we should understand that we have sinned against him. Men do not usually compare their actions with his righteous law, but with the actions of other men. We walk according to the course of this world, and are satisfied if we conform to such rules of conduct as are esteemed reputable among men. Multitudes pass through life without any proper conviction of sin, and die impenitent, who have never examined and tried their conduct by a higher rule. To undeceive such persons, and to strip them of such false and delusive pleas, it is necessary to convince them that he course of this world is downward and wicked, and that their conformity to it should alarm rather than satisfy them. The doctrine of universal total depravity, is therefore conductive to true repentance.

We do not truly repent of an offence to a fellow-man and sincerely ask pardon, unless we believe that he has just cause to be offended. If his displeasure has arisen from mere mistake, we expect to appease him by giving such information as will correct his mistake. If he has become displeased through mere captiousness, we may justify ourselves before him, and convict him of the wrong. In order to the exercise of genuine repentance towards God, we must know that he has a right to be displeased with us, that he has made no mistake in the matter, and that every attempt of ours to convict him of wrong in the case, will be abortive. To impress all this deeply on our minds, it is only necessary we should be fully convinced that we are under just condemnation from God, and that all our pleas in self-justification are without foundation.

Good men have been accustomed to draw motives to penitence from the doctrines that have been mentioned. David humbled himself before God, with a confession of his natural depravity. "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."[4] He viewed his sin with the greater abhorrence, as he saw and confessed the justice of the condemnation which it received from his Judge. "That thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest."[5]

True penitence is rendered more deep and pungent by a view of the wretchedness and helplessness which sin has brought upon us. So Paul exclaimed, "O wretched man that I am; who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"[6]



[1] Matt. iii. 2. Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Acts xvii. 30. The times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent.

[2] Luke xiii. 3.

[3] Matt. iii. 2.

[4] Ps. li. 5

[5] Ps. li. 4.

[6] Rom. vii. 24.

Source

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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JLR1300

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I'm well aware of what John Dagg thinks. First, all the verses quoted to say that repentance is necessary do no good because I agree that repentance is necessary.

Second Dagg says that repentance is sorrow and regret. There are two main greek words for repentance... Metanoia and Metamelomai. Only Metanoia (which means to change your mind) is used in verses that deal with justification. Metamelomai (which means to sorrow and regret) is used in verses that have nothing to do with justification. So here we have this great theologian who supposedly knows so much... and ... to explain how to be saved He takes the meaning from a Greek word (metamelomai - regret) from passages that don't have anything to do with justification and imposes that meaning into passages about justification where (metanoia - change of mind) is used. I think that is funny.

Also to make his point about the nature of repentance he keeps appealing to reason. It just seems reasonable that to get saved we have to be sorry. Since when did salvation ever seem to agree with the reason of men? Ever heard of predestination. How about Hell?
 
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98cwitr

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I'm well aware of what John Dagg thinks. First, all the verses quoted to say that repentance is necessary do no good because I agree that repentance is necessary.

Second Dagg says that repentance is sorrow and regret. There are two main greek words for repentance... Metanoia and Metamelomai. Only Metanoia (which means to change your mind) is used in verses that deal with justification. Metamelomai (which means to sorrow and regret) is used in verses that have nothing to do with justification. So here we have this great theologian who supposedly knows so much... and ... to explain how to be saved He takes the meaning from a Greek word (metamelomai - regret) from passages that don't have anything to do with justification and imposes that meaning into passages about justification where (metanoia - change of mind) is used. I think that is funny.


Great observation! Reminded me of this verse

2 Corinthians 7:10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
 
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JLR1300

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What is sin? 1st John 3:4 says "sin is the transgression of the law" KJV Now we are told by Paul that "therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith APART FROM the deeds of the law. (Romans 3:28) Now if sin is the transgression of the law and if to repent means to repent of sin.... then we are saying that to repent we must agree to not transgress the law.... to agree to not transgress the law is to agree to keep the law. So to repent we must agree to keep the law!!! So we are telling people that to be saved they must agree to keep the law before they can be justified. And yet we must also tell them that a man is justified apart from the deeds of the law. This makes evangelism sound really nuts. That can't be right....
 
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DeaconDean

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I'm well aware of what John Dagg thinks. First, all the verses quoted to say that repentance is necessary do no good because I agree that repentance is necessary.

Second Dagg says that repentance is sorrow and regret. There are two main greek words for repentance... Metanoia and Metamelomai. Only Metanoia (which means to change your mind) is used in verses that deal with justification. Metamelomai (which means to sorrow and regret) is used in verses that have nothing to do with justification. So here we have this great theologian who supposedly knows so much... and ... to explain how to be saved He takes the meaning from a Greek word (metamelomai - regret) from passages that don't have anything to do with justification and imposes that meaning into passages about justification where (metanoia - change of mind) is used. I think that is funny.

Also to make his point about the nature of repentance he keeps appealing to reason. It just seems reasonable that to get saved we have to be sorry. Since when did salvation ever seem to agree with the reason of men? Ever heard of predestination. How about Hell?

Read Boyce.

Secondly, the second word is a "verb".

What do verbs do?

And evidently, you are not aware of what Dagg said in regards to sin, in general, is sin first and foremost against God.

In all the ministry of the gospel, this is the first duty required of men. Without it, not a step can be taken in the way of return to God; and, without it, there is no possibility of obtaining the divine favor. "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." It is, therefore, of the very highest importance to understand what repentance is, and to have such views of truth as will tend to produce it in our hearts.

All this must exist in repentance toward God, if we do not mean to repeat our insults to the Searcher of hearts.

In order to sincere repentance toward God, it is indispensable that we should understand that we have sinned against him.

Here again, repentance and justification are two totally different matters.

And one more thing, I posted what I did because it agrees with what the OP said here:

The first is that we are told to repent TOWARD GOD.

One more minor thing.

There is no call whatsoever for this remark:

It just seems reasonable that to get saved we have to be sorry. Since when did salvation ever seem to agree with the reason of men? Ever heard of predestination. How about Hell?

If your going to develop this attitude, let me know so I can place you on my ignore list ok.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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Awaken4Christ

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Perhaps the work of the holy spirit can cause one to begin the process of repentance before the final process of salvation?

I think of someone who knows they are sinning, realizes somethings wrong in their life, starts to feel remorse and they have no answers, but then sometime after that, they are introduced to the Word of God. They come to find out that the Word of God is the solution to their troubled soul.

Or maybe people start to repent because

Romans 2:15-16
"14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them"

But I am not saying this is repentance that saves you. However, it is all part of Gods plan. Narrow is the path but getting to that path, God has gave us different experiences on getting there.

John 16:8 "And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment"

Since salvation is by grace through faith, could it be true that repentance can be floating around the whole process? Certainly saving faith will ensure repentance, but I don't think we can rule repentance out before salvation either. And of course this is all within the constraints of perceiving it within time and simply being human.
 
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skypair

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I believe the very best teaching on salvation was done by Jesus on the cross. When He was burdened by our sin (as if He was a sinner) and forsaken of God (which the sinner is), His last words were "'Father, into Thy hands I commend My spirit:' and having said that, He gave up the ghost."

We, as sinners seeking God's salvation, ought to pray, "Father, into Thy hands I commend my spirit" and then we ought to give up our ghost .. die to self. Because you know what happens next? God gives us His Spirit AND puts on us the Holy Ghost, Christ's body!

Remember when Paul told us to "put on Christ?" Yeah, this is how and when we do that! It's like when God gave Adam and Eve skins to wear, right?

And so please don't make this prayer out to be a "work." If Jesus didn't, why shouldn't you?

skypair
 
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DeaconDean

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Perhaps the work of the holy spirit can cause one to begin the process of repentance before the final process of salvation?

I think of someone who knows they are sinning, realizes somethings wrong in their life, starts to feel remorse and they have no answers, but then sometime after that, they are introduced to the Word of God. They come to find out that the Word of God is the solution to their troubled soul.

Or maybe people start to repent because

Romans 2:15-16
"14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them"

But I am not saying this is repentance that saves you. However, it is all part of Gods plan. Narrow is the path but getting to that path, God has gave us different experiences on getting there.

John 16:8 "And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment"

Since salvation is by grace through faith, could it be true that repentance can be floating around the whole process? Certainly saving faith will ensure repentance, but I don't think we can rule repentance out before salvation either. And of course this is all within the constraints of perceiving it within time and simply being human.

Repentance is an essential element of salvation.

It was said:

The second reason it is incorrect to say that a person must repent of sin in order to be saved is because it contradicts the other thing we are supposed to do, namely, believe in Christ for salvation.

Believing is not enough either.

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." -Jas. 2:19 (KJV)

Simple believe is not enough.

Repentance, belief, and trust are keys to salvation.

James Boyce puts it this way:

CHAPTER XXXIII
REPENTANCE.
The Scripture doctrine of Repentance is to be learned in part from the meaning of the original Greek word used to express it, and in part from its application to a matter which is within the sphere of morals.

I. There are two forms of words used in the New Testament which are translated repent and repentance.

Only one of these is used of the repentance associated with salvation from sin. This is the verb metanoeo, and the corresponding noun metanoia. The other verb is metamelomai, the noun of which does not appear in the New Testament, but occurs in the Septuagint in Hosea 11:8. The verb is used in the Septuagint in Psalm 110:4; and Jer. 20:16. It is also the word used in the New Testament in Matt. 21:29, which says of the son who had refused to obey his father's command to work in the vineyard, "afterward he repented himself and went." It likewise is found in Matt. 21:32 and 27:3, this latter being the case of Judas. Paul uses it in Rom. 11:29; and 2 Cor. 7:8, 10. It is also the word used in Heb. 7:21. In all other places, translated repent and repentance in the New Testament, the original is metanoeo or metanoia. This word means to reconsider, to perceive afterwards, and hence to change one's view, mind, or purpose, or even judgement, implying disapproval and abandonment of past opinions and purposes, and the adoption of others which are different. In all cases of inward change there is not necessarily a change of outward conduct, nor is such inward change accompanied by regret. These results would flow from the nature of that about which that change has arisen.

We arrive, therefore, at the meaning of Christian repentance partly through the meaning of these Greek words, but also partly because it is exercised about a question of morals. It is seen that it involves a change in the outward life because such change is a result of the change of inward opinions. It also includes sorrow for sin because a change of view as to the nature of sin and of holiness must be accompanied by regret and sorrow as to the past acts of sin.

The word metamelomai means to change one's care, to regret; the idea of sorrow always accompanying it.

The two words are nearly synonymous in their secondary meaning, and each is used in this secondary meaning in the New Testament. Metanoeo, however, traces the feeling of sorrow and the change of life back to an inward change of opinion and judgement as to the nature of sin and holiness, and of the relations of man and God. It is perhaps on this account that it is exclusively used for true repentance in the New Testament. This is not simply sorrow, or remorse, which may pass away, or lead in despair to other sins, or fill the soul with anxiety' but a heartfelt change in the inward soul towards God and holiness, which is lasting and effective, and which may be associated with peace and joy in believing.

II. To set forth explicitly what Christian Repentance is, it may be stated that it includes

1. An intellectual and spiritual perception of the opposition between holiness in God and sin in man. It does not look at sin as the cause of punishment but abhors it because it is vile in the sight of God and involves in heinous guilt all who are sinners.

2. It consequently includes sorrow and self-loathing, and earnest desire to escape the evil of sin. The penitent soul does not so much feel the greatness of its danger as the greatness of its sinfulness.

3. It also includes an earnest turning to God for help and deliverance from sin, seeking pardon for guilt and aid to escape its presence.

It is also accompanied by deep regret because of the sins committed in the past, and by determination with God's help to avoid sin and live in holiness hereafter. The heart heretofore against God and for sin is now against sin and for God.

Source

But what do I know as it has been pointed out right?

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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JLR1300

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If my memory serves me right metanoeo or metanoia is derived from two Greek words. Meta means afterward and Noia comes from the word gnosis which means knowledge. So the word literally means "afterward knowledge". It means that I used to believe one thing, but afterward I have knowledge that something else is the truth. To put in in another way, I used to believe this but now I believe that. I have changed my mind and now I have knowledge of the truth. So to repent means to change your mind about something. Boyce even says that it means to "perceive afterwards". So the word itself just means to change your mind or reverse your opinions. That is the way it was generally used by the Greeks in ancient times. So I am in agreement with Boyce on the hard facts. However, he then starts saying things that are more opinion than fact. I do think one thing he says is revealing.

"In all cases of inward change there is not necessarily a change of outward conduct, nor is such inward change accompanied by regret. These results would flow from the nature of that about which that change has arisen."

So with Metanoia (whether the verb or noun form) it means to change your mind (Knowledge afterward)and since it does it isn't, right at first, about outward conduct and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with regret. Metanoia itself isn't regret or sorrow. Boyce even says that it's second meaning could mean the same thing as metamelomai which means regret. That is an admission that the first or primary meaning of Metanoia isn't regret... it is to change your opinion.

Once we know the main meaning of a word, we need to look at the places where that word is used and the context in the scripture. What Dagg thinks or what Boyce or any other man thinks isn't all that important to me. I have read most all of those guys but they are just men.

Here is the real issue. The Bible never tells a person to repent OF SINS in passages that deal with justification. It always says to believe. So here is my issue. In passages that are really about salvation the Bible only says repent (change your mind). It doesn't say to repent of what. But on the few occasions that it DOES say to repent of what... it never says OF SIN but instead says either.... repent toward God (change your thinking about God) or it says repent OF DEAD WORKS.

In Hebrews we are told that the foundational teaching of Christianity is to repent of dead works. Heb 6 "Not laying again THE FOUNDATION OF REPENTANCE FROM DEAD WORKS AND FAITH TOWARD GOD" So again we are told that the very foundation is to repent "OF DEAD WORKS" The sinner imagines that He can earn God's favor by works.... those are dead works. The Pharisees were guilty of Dead works. So the sinner must repent, that is change his mind about trying to earn salvation by works. and then He must put His faith in God and Christ.

So Here is the problem. We want to know what exactly to repent toward or of. I show you what the BIBLE says to repent of .... 1. Repentance "toward God. 2. Repentance "from dead works". You,in turn, show me what Dagg and Boyce say. Why can't you just show me what the BIBLE says repent of?

Now if we go by what the BIBLE says... we don't end up with a contradiction. I can repent of dead works....(change my mind about trying to earn salvation by works) and then believe in Christ (trust in Him alone for salvation) Those things dovetail together perfectly. Or I can change my mind toward God (quit believing that He will overlook sin and start believing He is Holy and will punish sin) and then trust Christ for salvation. Those things dovetail together perfectly. So when I go by the BIBLE things never contradict.

But when I go by Boyce and Dagg I end up with straight contradictions...... 1. I have to turn from sin and obey God. 2. I have to look to what Christ did at the cross and not try to do works or something moral to obtain salvation. What a contridiction!!! So when I go by men (Boyce and Dagg) I end up with confusion. When I go by scripture it all makes perfect sense.

In the future, Just show me by the Bible what to think. Like I said before.... 1st John 3:4 says sin is the transgression of the Law. So if, according to some, I have to repent OF SIN to be justified then I have to repent of transgressing the LAW to be saved. I have to agree to keep the LAW to be saved. Yet Paul says "a man is justified by faith APART FROM the deeds of the law" Man's theology leads to contradictions .....God's theology leads to understanding.
 
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JLR1300

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Perhaps the work of the holy spirit can cause one to begin the process of repentance before the final process of salvation?

I think of someone who knows they are sinning, realizes somethings wrong in their life, starts to feel remorse and they have no answers, but then sometime after that, they are introduced to the Word of God. They come to find out that the Word of God is the solution to their troubled soul.

Or maybe people start to repent because

Romans 2:15-16
"14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them"

But I am not saying this is repentance that saves you. However, it is all part of Gods plan. Narrow is the path but getting to that path, God has gave us different experiences on getting there.

John 16:8 "And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment"

Since salvation is by grace through faith, could it be true that repentance can be floating around the whole process? Certainly saving faith will ensure repentance, but I don't think we can rule repentance out before salvation either. And of course this is all within the constraints of perceiving it within time and simply being human.

Yes, I am sure that God in His providence often leads the sinner into all kinds of problems because of the sinner's sin... and that causes the sinner great grief and often the sinner starts wishing he had never started the sin. Drinking may be wrecking his home and occupation so he wishes he had never started drinking etc. Also the sinner may fear punishment from God. So there may be all kinds of sorrows and fears. He may also think to himself "I am going to stop sinning so that I will go to heaven" But that is trusting in works for salvation. Then he will fall into the sin again and despair of hope. Finally He will repent of dead works (change his mind about trying to do good to earn God's favor) and he will repent toward God (realize that God won't overlook his sin) and then he will cast himself on Christ's mercy....... He will look to the blood of Jesus to cover his sin. At that point he will be justified. Then the Holy Spirit will enter him and start producing the fruit of the Spirit (and the first fruit of the Spirit is Love for God and man) and the second fruit of the Spirit is goodness (now that he has goodness he is truly sorry for the sin itself, not just sorry that drinking is ruining his life)

One great verse is Romans 4:5 says "but to him who does not work but believes on Him who JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY his faith is accounted as righteousness"

Do we have to resolve not to sin and to keep the law before we can be justified? If so we have to become GODLY before we can be justified. But the scripture says that God justifies the UNGODLY. We are ungodly when we get saved. We become godly immediately afterwards.
 
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DeaconDean

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Why can't you just show me what the BIBLE says repent of?

Proverbs 28:13

1 Jn. 1:9

Rev. 2:5

The best one, of hand, is Acts 3:19:

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"

But lets face facts, Jesus' first message was what?

"Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand." -Mk. 1:15

Repent of what?

Repent towards what or whom?

What separates us from God?

I'll be the first to admit that there is nowhere specifically where that is mentioined. But repentance of sins and salvation are so interlinked, you cannot have one without the other.

But since you take issue with everything I post here, I shall bow out gracefully.

I'm probablly wrong here to so what the hey.

Leave while the leaving is good.

Unsubscribing.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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DeaconDean

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One last thought.

Yes, I have quoted the works of various historic Baptist theologians.

I know of nobody who has not used systematic theologies, or commentaries to achieve a better understanding of the scriptures.

And, I have been castegated for it with sentences such as:

Why can't you just show me what the BIBLE says repent of?

Funny thought, the Greek definitions of words for "repent" were given without any mention of them from me.

cf.: http://www.christianforums.com/t7856028/#post66762033

Which means, that a certain person has studied outside the scriptures themselves.

I wrong for doing so, but they are not.

Funny indeed.

Oh well, I'm outta here.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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JLR1300

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Hi. Even though I haven't been able to find a verse dealing with becoming a Christian that says to repent OF SINS... (they seem to say repent toward God or repent of dead works) nevertheless, It doesn't really bother me for people to say that we should change our minds about sin in some sense for salvation. Here is what I mean...

The sinner usually believes that sin isn't a big deal... it isn't really all that bad... and therefore God probably will not punish him for it.(he thinks) So the sinner needs to change his thinking about sin and realize that it is extremely evil and so God cannot overlook it. I would imagine that this does happen. So in order to be saved people actually change their thinking about all sorts of things. They change their thinking about sin, about self, about God and about dead works.

So if you want to say that.... I have no real problem with that. If you want to say that we must change our thinking regarding the nature of sin... that is definately okay if by that you mean that sinners must stop thinking that sin is nothing serious and change their thinking and realize that sin is very serious and that they will be punished for it if they don't trust Christ as Savior.

However, if if by repent or changing your thinking regarding sin you mean that one must resolve to stop sinning in order to be saved or justified.... then you are looking to yourself and your works for salvation. Realizing sin is evil is one thing.... turning from evil is another (Jonah 3:10 says God considers it works) Repentance might be realizing sin is truly evil.... The resulting turning from evil is called the "fruits of repentance" and is a work. Since it is a work we cannot insist on it to be done before justification can occur.


So I am sure that to repent probably means to change your thinking about all kinds of things.... about the nature of sin (that it is truly evil).... about yourself (you used to think that you are a good ole boy but now you see that you are evil) ....about God... and about dead works. It's just that I couldn't find a verse that specifically said that about sin and self.... only about God and works.

I just remembered another verse ... 2nd Timothy 2:25 "...if God peradventure will grant them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth."

It is interesting that here we have another place where God points out what He is talking about when He mentions repentance..... it is "repentance to the acknowledging of the truth" So God gives sinners a change of mind so that they believe and acknowledge the truth of the Gospel. So we can speculate all we want about what sinners should repent of but whenever God tells us what He is talking about so far it is just 1. repentance of not believing the truth so that you acknowledge it.... 2. Repentance toward God 3. Repentance from dead works. And the scripture also talks about those who repented of idols... due to the fact that if you are believing in a false religion and in a false god to save you then obviously you must change your mind and believe in the true religion and the true God instead. It's funny how none of these repentances include repentance of sins (smoking, drinking, dancing, chasing women etc. etc) of any kind but always just changing our minds so that we believe the truth.
 
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JLR1300

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Proverbs 28:13 “He who covers his sins will not prosper, but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.”

The Old Testament Law of Moses was given to the chosen people of God and they were told that if they would live in accordance with that law God would bless the land and prosper the people. They were also told that if they failed to follow that law God would judge them and send curses against them. However, if God’s disobedient people would confess their sins and turn back to the Lord and agree to live according to His commandments once again, He would be merciful and bless and prosper them once again. Proverbs 28:13 reiterates that very thing.

Proverbs 28:13 “He who covers his sins will not prosper, but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.”

The book of Proverbs was given to God’s people as a guide for wise living. If we live wisely and follow God’s commandments we will be blessed and prosper. If we live foolishly God will bring judgments upon us. So in Proverbs 28 it says that “He who covers his sins will not prosper…”

The way to live a happy and prosperous life is to walk with God honestly and not try to cover sin. If God’s people fall into sin and try to cover it up and continue in it, God will discipline them and chasten them. They will not prosper. If, on the other hand they confess their sins and forsake them, God will be merciful and prosper them once again.


2nd Chronicles 7:14 Tells us the very same thing…

“If my people, who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and TURN FROM THEIR WICKED WAYS, then I will hear from heaven, and forgive their sin and heal their land.


Now this is a great verse from the Old Testament. It reminded the Old Covenant people of God that if they disobey God’s laws God will not allow them to prosper but if they forsake their disobedience to God’s laws, in His great mercy, He will prosper them once again.

I love this verse but it really doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the question regarding whether the New Testament Gospel requires the unsaved person to repent OF SIN for justification and eternal life or if justification is by faith alone.

So the book of Proverbs was written for the nation of Israel primarily to give them wisdom for blessed and prosperous living. The Gospel of John on the other hand, was written to explain to sinners how to have eternal life. John 20:31 says, “but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah/Savior) the Son of God and that believing you may have life in His name.” So if you want to know how to be justified and receive eternal life follow John’s advise and believe that Jesus Christ is the Divine Lord and that He is your Messiah and Savior. The book of John is the only book in the entire bible that says that the book was written to explain how to be saved and have eternal life. It tells us probably a hundred times to believe. It never mentions forsaking sin even once as the means for obtaining eternal life.

Forsaking sin is a great thing. If God’s people fall into disobedience they will never prosper unless they turn from their backslidings and forsake their disobedience to the commandments. If they do that God will cease to chasten them. He will be merciful and prosper them once again. That is a great lesson for life but it has nothing to do with justification and receiving eternal life.

God bless.
 
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