How to obtain Sanctification!!!

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itsalldone

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:bow: to the living WORD

Bless you very much by the WORD of GOD,

Sanctification is a process that you begin to go through when you are adopted by God. No man will rightfully discipline and correct children that are not his own, and no good father would fail to discipline his own children.

If justification is by "faith" and justification is NOT a process than Sanctification is NOT a process!

The ONLY reason that sanctification seems like a process is the amount of time it takes for a “sinner” takes to “LET GO of their sins.”

Or how lone the it takes the SPIRIT of HOLINESS of convict an going to be a believer someday,” sinner! (the following is a repost)

”Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.”2 Corinthians 5:17

1. If you “be in Christ”…. ARE you in Christ? Yes or NO? IF you are "in Christ" than…

2. “…you are a "NEW CREATION"… ARE you a "NEW CREATION"? Yes or NO? … IF you are a “NEW CREATION”… than…

3. “…OLD things are passed away!"... ARE “OLD THINGS PASSED AWAY?” Yes or NO? IF “OLD THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY” …than

4. ”…behold, ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW!” Are "ALL THINGS BECOME NEW?” Yes of NO? …IF "ALL THINGS are become NEW."... AND…

5. ”ALL THINGS ARE OF GOD!”... ARE ALL THINGS OF GOD with you ? NOW... ALL means : ALL inclusive, everything! YES OR NO?... AND if "ALL THINGS are of GOD!"... Than

6. “ALL THINGS” are of God,” who hath reconciled (PAST TENSE) us to Himself by Jesus Christ.”… ARE you “RECONCILED to GOD by Jesus Christ?” The answer is YES …ONLY IF… ALL the ANSWERS above (1. thru 5.) are YES… BUT if ALL the answers ARE NOT… ALL YES to the Above, and IF ANY are NO to ANY of the questions ABOVE (1. thru 5.) than you ARE NOT reconciled to GOD by Jesus Christ! YET!

7. NOW GOD states thru Jesus Christ (a really and truly reliable source) in Mark 9: 23 “Jesus said unto him, “If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.”
GOD thru Christ said "ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE to him that BELIEVES." …
DO you believe that "ALL THINGS are POSSIBLE to those who believe?" Yes or NO?

Do you believe that GOD is telling the TRUTH here in this verse, when HE said, "ALL THINGS are possible to believers? YES or NO?

Then, IF the answer is YES, than it is POSSIBLE for someone to believe that "ALL THINGS are possible to a BELIEVER!" Right? YES or NO?

IF the answer is NO, to ‘ARE ALL THINGS possible to those who believe? Than, the reason is that you are still an unbeliever, IF "ALL things" are NOT possible!

BUT on the opposite side GOD’s side, the “believers” side…

If you are "in Christ”…. And … you are a “NEW CREATION”….and “OLD things are passed away”…AND … “behold, ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW!”… And … "AND ALL THINGS ARE OF GOD"… AND … ALL THINGS are possible to those who BELIEVE! …. AND … IF you are a BELIEVER you are made in the image of GOD, NOW! And He Created you … than you should believe you are perfect… unless... He did NOT Create you and you are yet “made in His image.” Yes … or ….NO? Which is it ?

To be, or NOT to be His Creation?

NOW sanctification is by FAITH in the WORD of GOD being TRUTH or not. And not haveing faith for sanctification would be NOT having enough faith to believe in the WORD for justification. Besides would an “earthly judge pardon a criminal, if the criminal stated, for a FACT, that the criminal was NOT going to STOP doing crime??? WELL? Would he?
 
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You work out your salvation daily. It ain't busy. Stuff comes off in layers. You destoy all old tapes. rrecognize, repent, renounce, remove. rejoice and return to others.

Cool book on sanctification and healing is A More Excellent Way by pastor Henry Wright
 
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itsalldone

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blessing to you Hobokinite and Gideon4God
In the nature that came to show us the WAY unto His rule and reign.



You work out your salvation daily. It ain't busy. Stuff comes off in layers
Yep …. If “you” are working out “your own salvation” I guess it would be a “daily” thing…and things would come off in layers….. but ….

What if the WORD of GOD did all the “working it out and ALL “HIS creation” would believe that HE did ALL that hand to be DONE, because the WORD is GOD and the WORD said that HE was the Creator and “we” are to just be HIS Creation…..

And as “believers” we would believe that the WORD recreated us by the “blood of Christ we WERE cleansed from all SIN and made a NEW CREATION by GOD and NOT anything we could do but believe that…. by the WORD, HE restored us unto Himself …. (See 1Cor. 5: 17 above)


The WORD of GOD said….But NOW, once in the end of the world HE was manifested to PUT AWAY SIN by the sacrifice of HIMSELF! Heb.9:26(b) ...WE ARE set aside holy, through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for ALL. For by one offering HE HAS PERFECTED forever them that are [set aside holy]. Heb.10:10,14 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded, and if in any thing we be otherwise minded, GOD shall reveal even this unto you. Phl. 3:15 NOW, being MADE FREE FROM SIN, we became subject to GOD/Love, our fruit is holy, the result everlasting life [with YESHUA] Rom.6:22 And you know that HE was manifested to TAKE AWAY our sins, and in HIM is no sin. Whosoever abides in HIM sins not, whosoever sins has not seen [perceived] HIM, neither knows HIM. Little children, let no man deceive you, they that does holiness is holy, EVEN as HE is holy! 1Jn.3:5,6, JUST BELIEVE!! HE said it I didn't. NOW, Go and sin NO more! Jn8:11

Now what if “we” just be the creation and the WORD of be the CREATOR and “we” believe that HE…. the CREATOR …. Took away our sins into HIS own body upon the tree 2Pet, 2: 24 and the living WORD, who really wrote the Truth and HE said that HE restored ALL THINGS unto HIMSELF and “we” just believe we WERE REATORED and are HIS CREATION already because HE said SO! NADA question of how “we are to be… as the real question is ARE “we HIS CREATION ALREADY!

NOW since you have a “chose” on “who you going to serve and I choose the PURE and UNDEFILED WORD of GOD to be my MASTER and my Creator, and the SAVIOR and the ONE (not two or more than ONE) as the Creator of the NEW LIFE I now live. Than what HE said HE DID I will live by that and NO other Master / Creator or RULER will I bow to… NONE….

NOW being made FREE FROM SIN “we” become servants to the WORD as He don’t need NO Thing that “has spot or wrinkle (blemish) or ANY SUCH THING” and HIS “body of “believers” are without any thing that “defiles” Eph. 5: 27& Rev. 21:27
His “body of believers” are HIS Creation and HIS CREATION are NOT “trying to work out “their own” salvation with fear and trembling” …but…. HAVE CRUCFIED the flesh with the affections and lust! Gal. 5: 24

and those who have to “do something” instead of just be the Creation of the “DONE /finished on earth as it is in heaven” Than by hanging on the “old self” the “old man” they are missing the Truth that set them FREE as WHO the WORD / SON of GOD sets free is free indeed and NOT “going to be free” or “after I do some more works” but FREE when the blood of GOD hit the ground 2000 +or – yrs. Ago Making what HE DID the SALVATION and NOT what I do……
of course you can be your own means of “salvation” and Keep falling and “saying your sorry and falling and “saying” your sorry and on and on until you realize that HE DID it , MAKING the WORD GOD …. but is MUCH easer to “just believe” the WORD and “be perfect as “your Father in heaven is PERFECT! Mt. 5: 48 Just like “believing” HE said …LET there be LIGHT and there was LIGHT. The “believers” believe “be perfect and “your” Father in heaven is perfect” is a same as GOD saying “let there be light…. We believe HE DID the CREATING and we be the CREATION.. SIMPLE HUH?

But WARNING ….And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. Before “they that are written in the Lamb’s book of life come (in this order) “And there shall in NO wise enter in… ANY thing that defiles, neither WHOTSOEVER WORKS abomination of make a lie Now ANYTHING that doesn’t agree with the “finished WORD of GOD” is a lie because the WORD is TRUTH and ANYTHING that defiles defiles (2840, unholy, polluted, unhallowed, profane to declared unclean will NOT enter in ……

Ps. Dear Gideon4God, you wouldn't go and find verses to be unhealthy or sick if you wanted the Truth of the WORD to heal you… would you? I should say not!So than why would you “go and find verses that make you unholy? AND argue with the “finished” work of GOD? When right next to “your” unholy verses are HOLY ones that Create you into His HOLINESS, by the Spirit of HOLINESS … in stead of the spirit of unholiness…. SUCH as :help:

Instead of 1 Cor. 4:1, How about 1Cor. 6: 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Instead of Mark 5:25-34, Luke 6 :40 The disciple is not above his Master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his Master. WOW what a “finished” promise “perfect shall be as his MASTER …. Why put off until tomorrow what you can have TODAY AS TODAY is the day of SALVATION


Instead of Phil. 2:12, How about PHIL. 3: 15 & 16 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Instead of 1 Pet. 1:9 How about But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation (391, manner of life, conduct, behavior) Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

BECAUSE the WORD of GOD says….in Matt12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

AND in JOB 15:6 Thine own mouth condemneth thee, and not I: yea, thine own lips testify against thee.

And AFTER COMING to the WORD “we “ are taught by the SPIRIT of HOLINESS ….Titus 2: 12…. Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; NOW BEFORE CONVERSION and the “NEW BIRTH” we are to confess “our sins” and HE the WORD is FAITHFILLED and just to forgive us “our” sins and SHALL CLEANS US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS and WHEN we “believe” that HE is faith filled to CLEANS us FROM ALL unrighteousness, as HE is not like a “fallen man” but GOD KEEPS HIS promises… And now we are to DENY / RENOUNCE / REJECT ungodliness and worldly lust so we can live righteously and godly IN THIS PRESENT WORLD…. That is the ONLY WAY, HIS WAY!

Bless you by the TRUTH that set me FREE!:bow: :clap:
 
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itsalldone

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Hey where is Hobokinite, Gideon4God, lambslove

DID you all go to the "upper room" and get sanctified?

Where did you all go :cry: I want to see you all sanctified....HOW...by the WORD of GOD .... and I "pray" even your mind, body and soul be sanctified until the coming of our LORD... FAITH FILLED is [the WORD] that will do it... 1Thes. 5: 23-24

NOW let's hear your testimonies.... for the glory of GOD! :pray:

:holy: :holy: :holy:
 
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KelsayDL

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It is interesting to note that, the "bible" of Jesus was the so called old testament.


That being said:

John 17:17-19
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.


Jesus never referred to the words of Paul as the word of God (nor anything else in the NT texts).


Thought that might be a relevant fact of the matter.
 
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brotherjim

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Sanctification does not equal eternal Life.

Justification does not equal eternal Life.

Salvation does not equal eternal Life.

These facets of the Christian faith, and others, are not synonyms of eternal Life. They are all needed steps for eternal Life, they are each one of the "manifold" (KJV - 1Pet.4:10) Graces of God needed for eternal Life.

These individual aspects of the Christian walk are each one more step of Grace needed to reach the Love of God perfected in our hearts, that which alone "ensures" eternal Life (Luke 10:25-28, 1 Jn. 2:3-5, 1 Jn. 4:16-18, 1 Jn. 4:6-8, etc., etc.).

In regards specifically to sanctification:

1) Compare Hebrews 9:13 with Heb. 10:11 (sanctification, by itself, does not take away sins).

2) Compare 1 Cor. 7:14 with 1 Cor. 7:16 (sanctification, by itself, does not yield salvation, the act of being saved).

brother jim
 
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brotherjim

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KelsayDL said:
Jesus never referred to the words of Paul as the word of God (nor anything else in the NT texts).
Not true.

(Not directly referred to, of course, for neither the words of Paul nor of any apostle were yet made known as being forthcoming. In fact, even when such words were recorded by the Apostles, decades after Jesus in the flesh, they didn't even fully realize how such would some day be part of the whole counsel of God's Word to mankind, them often just writing letters to a specific person or persons.)

See Matthew 16:17-19, spoken by Jesus himself.

To the Apostles were given the authority of the office of the apostle, whereby NT church doctrine was to be established, God binding Himself to those doctrines (for, after all, they were given by Him to the Apostles).

While not the directly spoken Words of Jesus:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be perfect, . . ."

We will each and all know this to be Truth either now or on Judgment Day.
 
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KelsayDL

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All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be perfect



Again, one should note the scripture Paul spoke of was the text of the OT. There was no such thing as the NT when paul wrote this LETTER.

He wrote a letter. That after hundreds of years somehow became holy inspired scripture. That was never the intent.

We will each and all know this to be Truth either now or on Judgment Day
Well, we will indeed all know what is truth on that day. Including you.
 
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brotherjim

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KelsayDL said:
Again, one should note the scripture Paul spoke of was the text of the OT. There was no such thing as the NT when paul wrote this LETTER.

He wrote a letter. That after hundreds of years somehow became holy inspired scripture. That was never the intent.
Not true.

Of course, as I stated in my last post, Paul did not have a clue that he was writing what would later become a part of the Holy Bible.

Paul, in 2 Tim. 3:16, was of course referring to the OT because there was no NT. He was writing what he thought at the time was a private letter between him and Timothy.

But your presumption that it was not inspired by God is just that. There is no scriptural basis for your surmising. The word "scripture" as is used in 2 Tim. means a holy document. Period. So if God says that it's holy, if He was the one who inspired it, then it is holy. It was not Paul's "intent," but God's intent.

When the Holy Bible as we have it today was canonized, by whoevr at whatever time in whatever version, they had to determine which was inspired by God and which not. Of course opinions would vary, because men vary. But what we have today in the "protestant" canonized scriptures is there because each Book was determined as being the inspired Word of God.

But we need not worry if this or that should have been canonized and deemed God-inspired. God has not decreed that Truth be established on the earth based upon just one "witness," on just the written Word.

Truth was ordained by God to be established on two or more witnesses.

As example, we know that there's an instantaneous, supernatural event of the New Birth, not only because implication of it is found in both the OT and NT, but because we who have have experienced it.

So we who were born from above have as one witness the day and time when we knew that we knew that we were made a new creature in Christ Jesus.

We have additional witness, or should have, each day as "His Spirit bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God."

Then as a third witness, we can go to the Word and find its Truth hidden among the scriptures.

Conversely, since God's Spirit has revealed all of this personally to us in our inner person, we can know that the NT Word of God was true, that there truly is a New Birth given instantly and miraculously from above.

Then, too, if we were to suppose that there was some error in the scriptures, perhaps even an entire Book that was not inspired by God, we can again know this through ongoing witnesses by God's Spirit.

The Holy Ghost is Himself to be our guide into all Truth, and He can be trusted to show us either error or confirmation in the Word.

In fact, there is not even anything in the Bible that clearly tells us that there's a New Birth given instantly. We who have, have had to deduce it from the various scriptures such as the personal testimonies in Acts. But such cannot be undeniably proven from the written Word alone. Doesn't matter, and in fact that's the Way God wants it (John 2:23-25). But we have the experience whereby we have known, and such cannot be disproven by the written Word.

But of course there will always be those who seek to justify their disobedience, rebellion and deficiencies, and who will insist on what they do and limit God's Word in their lives to only that which they have already obtained and/or were able to feign. Likely for such, such will not know their error until the Day of Judgment, for they have hardened their heart against any attempts by the Holy Ghost to guide them into the whole counsel of God's Truth. Very sad; reality.

Being a believer for 22 years now, and speaking for countless others who have gone before me, we have tried and tested the whole counsel of God's Word, found it to be entirely true (except, of course, for minor errors in translations, and also a few insignificant discepencies from one "orig." manuscript to another), and have obtained the promise of eternal Life by being conformed by Grace into someone complying with the whole counsel of God's Word, which end is the Love of God perfected in our heart.

So man can tamper with my Bible all he wants to, if God allows, but I can not be fooled or deceived, for the Holy Ghost, if I walk in Truth, will always guide me in Truth.

Also again:

"The keys to the Kingdom of Heaven" were given by Jesus to the Apostles, and they were given spiritual authority by the apostolic office to bind in Heaven that which they bind upon the earth, and to loose those keys to Heaven, in Heaven, by whatever they decreed loose in the earth.

The doctrines gaining entrance to Heaven were entrusted to the Apostles, so we can be certain that God would never have trusted them with such keys had He not also had the means whereby He could inspire what they would decree as being necessary to enter Heaven, whether in their speech or in their written words.

So we who do trust God and not the Apostles: He is able to send out His Word without it coming back void, even if he uses a donkey to do it.

See Matthew 16:17-19.

brother jim
 
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KelsayDL

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Not true.

What I said is quite true.

Paul wrote a letter.

Hundreds of years after the fact, men voted on it as to whether it was inspired by God or not.

It was ...voted... to be inspired by a very narrow margin.

Today it is considered inerrant and the infallible Word of God.


Funny thing that, since Pauls teachings if christianity interprets him correctly contradict the Father, and Yeshua.

How unfortunate for the first believers. They were not privy to all of Pauls teachings. Yet those who were, eventually rejected him.

Odd.


Again, anywhere you see reference being made to the word (such as where Yeshua said "thy word is truth"), or scripture in the new testament, it is referencing the Tanakh a.k.a. the old testament. Understand that Yeshua said "thy word is truth", in reference to God's word set forth in the Tanakh.

Plain and simple.

It is not referencing what man has voted in and out of canon over the centuries, nor that which took men 1200 or so years to compile as the inerrant infallible new testament, which btw it is not.


The Holy Spirit is not responsible for espousing and promoting a gospel which contradicts the Father.

The Holy Spirit is not responsible for the textual additions in the current NT, that do not exist in the earliest manuscripts we possess.

The Holy Spirit is not responsible for flat out changing words in the NT, again to further mans agenda.
 
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colossi3

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josiahdefender said:
Sanctification is Gods holiness imparted to us by reason of Gods own presence in our lives. As we abide in the vine ( Christ) we partake of the nurishing and blessed empowering of Christ. Holiness is one of Gods communicable attributes. It is a wonderful and glorious thing to know that Christ makes us Holy because we place our hearts and lives into his hands. We need not strive for holiness or rack ourselves with guilt because we find sin seeking to enter back in to dominate. We simply trust that Christ who is our life, will bring life to every area of our hearts that is open and available for his infilling.
Some things to watch for while seeking holiness.
1. It comes by way of communication with God, meaning God IMPARTS his presence in such a way that we sense and are made aware of his direct
influence upon us.
2. It comes by way of prayer and repentance. Not the way of begging and pleading with God to make us holy, nor by reason of enduring shame or guilt from past sins. It is by A LIVING FAITH which seeks to enter deeper into Christ himself.
3. It comes by way of obedience and accountability, not in mere words or agreements but by way of actually being open and teachable to others who are over us. Not the simple agreement that comes from hearing a good sermon, but from the agreement that comes when you are busted for doing wrong, or busted for doing right, and you take it as the word of God and obey it, and seek to find your strength right then from God, not men or self flatteries that you are "ok and dont need this stuff".
4. It comes by way of realizing you are DEAD TO SIN that you cannot live a life of sin any longer, you not only DONT WANT TO SIN, you simply cannot sin, because it is just NOT YOU AS YOU KNOW YOURSELF TO BE. This is not a swallowing up of our personalities but a real EXCHANGE OF life between the way we used to think and live and they way we must live to just be ourselves.
5. Place yourself in a position to HAVE TO TRUST GOD. and stay there.
If you play it safe with your own soul you will never keep your zeal alive for long. Zeal and devotion to Christ invite holiness, since it is an open invitation to God to empower for service and obedience. If your christian walk is so comfortable that it has no effect as to make you a danger to Satans kingdom or a threat to mans thinking, then you will find little holiness in your life. When God enters a mans life, EVERYTHING CHANGES RADICALLY: men and devils know it and draw the sword after they recover themselves some.

There is much more but these will suffice to those who want to know Christ, for who he is, and will find holiness not some elusive virtue, that is spoken of in christian history: you will find it a wonderful virtue that comes from the RESULT of knowing Christ deeply and obeying him implicitly.
Josiah
 
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brotherjim

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KelsayDL said:
Funny thing that, since Pauls teachings if christianity interprets him correctly contradict the Father, and Yeshua . . . How unfortunate for the first believers. They were not privy to all of Pauls teachings. Yet those who were, eventually rejected him . . . The Holy Spirit is not responsible for the textual additions in the current NT, that do not exist in the earliest manuscripts we possess.
Not true.

"The keys to the Kingdom of Heaven" were given by Jesus to the Apostles, and they were given spiritual authority by the apostolic office to bind in Heaven that which they bind upon the earth, and to loose those keys to Heaven, in Heaven, by whatever they decreed loose in the earth.

The doctrines gaining entrance to Heaven were entrusted to the Apostles, so we can be certain that God would never have trusted them with such keys had He not also had the means whereby He could inspire what they would decree as being necessary to enter Heaven, whether in their speech or in their written words.

So we who do trust God and not the Apostles: He is able to send out His Word without it coming back void, even if he uses a donkey to do it.

See Matthew 16:17-19.


Jesus gave authority for church doctrine up to the Apostles, and he bound Heaven to whatever the Apostles had decreed on the earth.

So whether the Apostles were 100% infallible or not - and they were right on, is irrelevant, for God himself bound Himself to the doctrine of the Apostles.

And since, eventually, all the Apostles were in agreement on their doctrines, we can further be certain they were all hearing correctly from God.

But of course, God would never have sworn such an oath were He not certain that the Apostles would form doctrine totally in line with the heart and mind of God.

But truly, many, even the majority, rejected the doctrines of Paul, as they continue to do to this day. Man refuses to submit to authority, whether that of the God-inspired Apostles or that of the true God (not the God they have conjured up in their minds, Him based on only what someone wants to accept about Him and therefore easily palatable: a God idol).

But even if every Christian believes a false gospel, even if every Christian rejects the doctrines of Paul and the Apostles, Heaven is still bound to those doctrines, and so will every "Christian" be on judgment Day.

And rightly so, for there are absolutely no contradictions in the scriptures, from Gen. 1 to Rev. 22. All agree as one, and it's only man's lack of Wisdom in understanding that would make him think so.

For God is a God who is only discovered in Truth by those who He wills to reveal Himself to, those who approach Him humbly and sincerely, as a child, as someoene sincerely seeking Truth and Light and not mere self-justification for their ongoing rebellion and disobedience and refusal to Love all as they were commanded and as is required for eternal Life according to the preponderance of scripture that say so.

We cannot obtain eternal Life through any means other than Faith, and when we try to do so merely through the intellectual fleshly mind, it will only anesthetize us until our death and then eventual eternal judgment, when our wranglings and lawlessness and despising of authority will grant us only eternal damnation.

Yes, Paul will always be rejected by the vast majority, for:

"Narrow is the Way, and few there be. . . ."

"How unfortunate for the first believers" indeed; how unfortunate for the vast majority to this very day.

"But some clave unto Paul and believed."

brother jim
 
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KelsayDL

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Paul was a self appointed apostle.


There was biblical criteria for being an apostle. Paul did not fulfill
it.


Acts 1:20-22-

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take. 21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.




By the admission of Paul himself, all they in Asia rejected HIS gospel:


2Ti 1:15 - Show Context

This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me


Yet in the Revealation of John we see that all seven of the churches in Asia are the Lords;

Re 1:4 - Show Context

John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;


They are not condemned for casting out the teachings of Paul. In fact it can easily be argued they are commended for it:



Re 2:2 - Show Context

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:


You cannot be an apostle of Yeshua and contradict him.



But even if every Christian believes a false gospel, even if every Christian rejects the doctrines of Paul and the Apostles, Heaven is still bound to those doctrines, and so will every "Christian" be on judgment Day.
The doctrines of Paul and the Apostles were different one from another.

And it is absurd to believe that even if error was taught by the Apostles that heaven is bound by that doctrine whatever it may be.

Totally absurd.
 
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brotherjim

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Truly man, since the very inception of the church, has sought to create God in his, man's, own image.

Man, both before and after conversion, prefers to remain walking after the flesh instead of the Spirit of God. He prefers the cool shade of darkness ratrher than the revealing Light of the Day.

But since man knows that he must be accountable to God, if he admits that there is such, then of course man must be able to justify his actions.

The problem for "Christian" man, however, is that his actions are not justifiable against the whole counsel of God's Word.

So what id "Christian" man to do? How can he justify his deficiencies and ongoing rebellion and despising of authority? How can he still look good to God, his peers, and even to his own conscience, while at the same time living his life in disobedience to what God requires?

Simple: man recreates God in his own mind.

One of the Ten Commandments, later summed up in the NT's Two, was for us to not have any other god, no "graven image" of God, placed by us before the true God.

So "Christian" man takes whatever attributes of Christ that he finds easily digested and acceptable, and adds whatever commandments of that Christ which he can easily perform and feign, and from them molds those few aspects of Christianity into a complete religion. He has taken what he likes, buried his head in the sand to the remainder, and forms from it a gravcen image of God and of Christ. He then lives out his days worshiping this self-made idol of the heart instead of the true God.

So whereas God has commanded man to worship Him in S(s)pirit and in Truth, still lawless "Christians" worship their idols of God.

Even the born from above experience is usually taken by the believer and turnes into an idol, just like man attempted to do at the Mount of Transfiguration.

While God had intended the Mount of T. experience to be just one small part in a series of intended by Him mountaintop experiences, man did not want to continue. Man was uncomfortable in the Living Presence of God, and did not look forward to repeated occurances. So man attempted to devise his own methodology, wanting to build a visual, stationary, predictable, controllable god to worship. Hence the apostles suggeseted a tabernacle be built.

So to this very day does born again man seek to limit God to that one experience.

It is only natural, then, that man must do what he must do to justify his ongoing sins of disobedience, rebellion, and what is even a deep-seated but well-disguised and unknown to him hatred for the true God and Christ of the Bible. So such must then create their own god, and for the Christian, even call their god by the name of Jesus.

But the true Christ Jesus is the Jesus of the Bible, and of the whoile Bible. So in order for Christian man to justify his self-made god, he must discredit what and who he can, pervert what he can, isolate what he can, and otherwise do whatever he can to make the Bible conform to his own concoction of Christ.

We should all not expect anything more from man.

As the Word declares, God is true and all men are liars.

But Grace is available to circumvent man's devices of self-destruction.

We were not given just the written Word to obey. When we were born from above, we were given a new spirit from God, and the Holy Spirit as guide, and these will dictate to us exactly what we must do to obey God and eventually inherit eternal Life. The Bible is just one of many tools that God's Spirit uses to help us obey Him.

(After all, many are still without the written Word, as were most Gentiles in the early church. And yet those first believers Loved God like most today cannot even entertain, and God would have been lax to not make provision for the many who do not have the advantages of reading the written Word.)

Actually, the Bible is mostly useless, eternally speaking, unless God also writes its precepts upon our hearts. For recall how in the Old Covenant God prophesied that the disobedient Hebrews would one day be obedient, in part because they would be given a new spirit and heart, and in part because God would then write His Laws upon those hearts.

So as we who are in the Truth and walk in Light read the written Word, we need not fear what should be there or what should not, for whatever Truth that God's Spirit is attempting to guide us into will already have been, or concurrently will be, written upon our heart. Then, when we read this or that, our inner person will recognize it as Truth because its Truth already exists upon the heart, and we will move forward in our pursuit of eternal Life.

God has ordained His Truth be established in us based upon two or three witnesses. If we attempt to have a relationship with God and His Light and Truth with anything less, we are in error and destined for eternal damnation. And so it must be. Such only seek to justify themselves before men, as if the safety in numbers adage applies to those who jump off of bridges.

Please seek His Truth and Light while it may still be found.

brother jim
 
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brotherjim

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Dear KelseyDL, I answered all of your intellectual wranglings regarding the discrepencies between Paul and the other Apostles, on the theolgyforums.com site, under General Theology, on the thread "What Did Paul Mean Here?" You may have to scroll back a page from the current main menu of Gen. Theol. There was also a sister thread arounnd the same time which discussed it, but I cannot recall the thread's title. I'll check later, Lord willing, and send you a PM or edit this post. bj
 
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brotherjim

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[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]John[/font]

[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.[/font]

[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.[/font]
 
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