The Hope Of Israel (Acts 24:15, 26:1-11, 28:20)

What is the Hope Of Israel?

  • The Resurrection And A Spiritual Kingdom

  • Israel's Natural And National Restoration

  • I Don't Know

  • Other


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Rev20

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Jesus is the one who said all old testament prophecy was fulfilled, Keras. If you will not believe Jesus, you certainly will not believe me. Quote Rev20

Please tell us the verse where Jesus says or infers such a thing.

At the time Jesus said this, only the Old Testament was written:

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." -- Luke 21:20-22

If it had been a snake, it would have bit you, Keras (still might!) :)

BTW, I, and I would think others too, see your posts against n2thelight, as provocative and aimed to divert viewers away from what the scriptures actually say, because you make assertive statements that are actually only conjecture on your part. In fact in #14, you contradict yourself.

Keras, is your definition of provocative not kowtowing to your highly imaginative misinterpretations?

Frankly, Keras, you are bearing false witness against me. I always quote the scriptures: generally more than my own words. If you have a problem with them, you are always welcome to show me the error of my ways. I encourage it.

But don't expect me to believe anything that is exegetically untenable, such as futurism; and especially that weird stuff about the so-called "ten lost tribes of Israel" being British, or New Zealanders, or other such nonsense. The ten tribes of Israel were never lost in the flesh: only in the spirit. They are the ones Christ was seeking, and FOUND!

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; . . . If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. . . Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." -- Jas 1:1-2, 5, 18

James was speaking to the twelve tribes as if he knew them personally. Any of that passage ring a bell, Keras?
.

In fact in #14, you contradict yourself.

Keras, if I contradicted myself, you should at least have the courtesy to show everyone where I contradicted myself. It is not only important that I know, but that all those who read my contradiction and did not recognize it as such. I most certainly do not want them to be misled by anything I write.

Keras, please show everyone where I contradicted myself.

:)
 
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n2thelight

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But don't expect me to believe anything that is exegetically untenable, such as futurism; and especially that weird stuff about the so-called "ten lost tribes of Israel" being British, or New Zealanders, or other such nonsense. The ten tribes of Israel were never lost in the flesh: only in the spirit. They are the ones Christ was seeking, and FOUND!

Christ always knew who they were,out of curiosity,do you?
 
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keras

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Where does it say that God planned to destroy the armies that came against Jerusalem? Certainly not here:

"And the Lord shall go forth, and fight with those Gentiles as when he fought in the day of war." -- Zec 14:3 LXX
:)
Rev20 #14 post

Rev20, when you ask; Does God destroy the armies THAT CAME against J,lem? From that you mean the Roman army in 70 CE.
Then you quote Zech 14:3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against the nations, fighting as in a day of battle. REB Trans. A FUTURE event, what will happen at the Return. Do you believe this is past history? If so, that is your contradiction.

Re the ten lost tribes: Jesus said; I have other sheep, that do not belong to this fold, [the Jewish people] they will listen to Me.... John 10:16 Who has listened to Him? Christian peoples. And who are the Christian nations? The ones who migrated from the Caucasus region. Where did they originate? From Israel, when the Assyrians exiled them to the Northwest part of their empire.
But the fact that you and most people do not accept these truths, is due to God's plan to keep the Israelites from knowing their true heritage, for many reasons and for Judah to remain as a visible entity.
Not too long now, and all will know the fulfilment of God's plans for his righteous people. And the wicked too, but that's not so nice!
 
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Rev20

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Rev20 #14 post

Rev20, when you ask; Does God destroy the armies THAT CAME against J,lem? From that you mean the Roman army in 70 CE.
Then you quote Zech 14:3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against the nations, fighting as in a day of battle. REB Trans. A FUTURE event, what will happen at the Return. Do you believe this is past history? If so, that is your contradiction.

Keras, I quoted the Greek Old Testament that was in use in the days of Christ by Greek-speaking Jews throughout the Roman Empire (e.g., the "whole world.") It is called the Septuagint (or LXX, for short,) and it was quoted frequently by Christ and the Apostles, resulting in such names as Jonas, Zacharias, Esaias (Isaiah,) Osee (Hosea,) Jeremias, and Elias (Elijah.) It also provides a much different picture of Zechariah 14:3 than the King James Masoretic Hebrew text:

"And the Lord shall go forth, and fight with those Gentiles as when he fought in the day of war." -- Zec 14:3 LXX

"Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle." -- Zec 14:3 KJV

Frankly, the translation in the King James never seemed to fit the other verses. When I obtained the Septuagint, I understood why. The LXX also solved several other puzzles for me.

Therefore, there was no contradiction in what I wrote to n2thelight. I simply used the translation commonly in use in the days of Christ.
.

Do you remember Christ mentioning this particular murder?

"That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar." -- Matt 23:35

It was this well-known prophet, named identically in the LXX:

"In the eighth month, in the second year of the reign of Darius, the word of the Lord came to Zacharias, the son of Barachias, the son of Addo, the prophet, saying," -- Zec 1:1 LXX

Compare the King James Masoretic Old Testament:

"In the eighth month, in the second year of Darius, came the word of the Lord unto Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying," -- Zec 1:1 KJV

The Septuagint has a much more reasonable translation for Amos 9:11-12. This is the fulfillment in the King James Version, followed by the original prophecy in the LXX:

"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things." -- Acts 15:14-17

"In that day I will raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and will rebuild the ruins of it, and will set up the parts thereof that have been broken down, and will build it up as in the ancient days: that the remnant of men, and all the Gentiles upon whom my name is called, may earnestly seek me, saith the Lord who does all these things." -- Amos 9:11-12 LXX

That is very close. Now, compare that with the Masoretic Old Testament of the King James:

"In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the Lord that doeth this." -- Amos 9:11-12

Not even close.

:)
 
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Rev20

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Re the ten lost tribes: Jesus said; I have other sheep, that do not belong to this fold, [the Jewish people] they will listen to Me.... John 10:16 Who has listened to Him? Christian peoples. And who are the Christian nations? The ones who migrated from the Caucasus region. Where did they originate? From Israel, when the Assyrians exiled them to the Northwest part of their empire.

Keras, please provide authentic historical documentation of those claims. Even something from the ECF's would be acceptable. It would also be nice if you could show us where we can find it in the Holy Bible, but we already know it cannot be found there.
.

But the fact that you and most people do not accept these truths, is due to God's plan to keep the Israelites from knowing their true heritage, for many reasons and for Judah to remain as a visible entity.

You must have received that directly from God, because you didn't find it in the scriptures.
.

Not too long now, and all will know the fulfilment of God's plans for his righteous people. And the wicked too, but that's not so nice!

How long is "Not too long now," Keras?

:)
 
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n2thelight

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Keras, please provide authentic historical documentation of those claims. Even something from the ECF's would be acceptable. It would also be nice if you could show us where we can find it in the Holy Bible, but we already know it cannot be found there.
.



You must have received that directly from God, because you didn't find it in the scriptures.
.



How long is "Not too long now," Keras?

:)


God’s Promises to Abraham

Genesis 12:1-2 | God promises Abraham that his descendants will become a great nation.

Genesis 17:1-6 | God promises Abraham will be a father of many nations, not just one.

Genesis 22:16-18 | God promises that the birthright nations among Abraham’s descendants will possess the gates (access points) of their enemies.

Genesis 26:3-5 | God promises the birthright nations will multiply as the stars of heaven.

Genesis 27:26-29 | God promises the birthright nations will become wealthy and rule over other nations.

Genesis 28:13-14 | God promises that the birthright nations will spread worldwide.

Genesis 35:11 | God promises that the birthright nations will become “a nation and a company of nations.”

Take an objective look at these promises in the Bible. If you believe that God exists, the Bible is His Word, and that He keeps His promises, you should look for Abraham’s descendants to appear prominently in history.

You should be able to see them take shape at some point as one wealthy, powerful nation and as a group of nations—a superpower and a commonwealth, you might say.

Has there ever been a people that grew into a nation that developed an extremely wealthy economy, spread around the world, fielded a super-powerful military, exerted influence over its enemies and controlled the choke points of the world?

Has there ever been a nation that fits all of these descriptions and at the same time was closely related to a commonwealth or “company of nations”?

There’s only one: the United States of America. America has been the world’s greatest singular superpower, and it came directly from the world’s greatest empire: Britain. The British Empire, and later the United States, projected power all around the world and controlled almost every important sea gate/trade route in the world.

No other nation and empire fulfill those promises so specifically and fully. But this is just one undeniable proof that the modern descendants of ancient Israel are America and Britain!


Modern Israel

The Bible records that Abraham’s children flourished into the 10-tribe nation of Israel. In Genesis 48, Abraham’s grandson Jacob—whom God renamed Israel—specifically assigned his name to Ephraim and Manasseh, saying that one of these descendants would become a “great” people (the United States), and that the other would become a “multitude of nations” (Great Britain).

If the American and British people aren’t the modern Israelites—a populous, widespread, multinational, wealthy, powerful nation and company of nations—then no one else has fulfilled or is fulfilling those promises God made. And if those promises failed, then the Bible is irrelevant and its many prophecies about Abraham’s modern descendants are pointless.

But if God’s biblical promises are true, those hundreds of prophecies apply right now.

This still leaves many questions: How did the Israelites migrate from the Middle East to the British Isles and North America? How did they lose their identity? Why did it take so long for God to fulfill those promises? These are great questions, deserving great answers and further proof.
Whether you realize it or not, the answers to those questions link directly to this urgent question: Why is America declining? The Bible answers that question! It describes exactly what is happening to the modern descendants of Abraham. Knowing America’s biblical identity unlocks countless biblical passages that explain exactly why the United States is falling so dramatically.

If there is a God, and if the Bible is His Word, then America must be modern-day Israel. It is the only nation in history that fits God’s detailed prophecies. It’s up to you to prove this exceptional truth for yourself.

https://www.thetrumpet.com/article/1...-lost-identity
 
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Rev20

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God’s Promises to Abraham

Genesis 12:1-2 | God promises Abraham that his descendants will become a great nation.

They did become a great nation, materially.

"And Solomon reigned over all kingdoms from the river unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought presents, and served Solomon all the days of his life." -- 1Kin 4:21

Then they became a great nation spiritually:

"And now if ye will indeed hear my voice, and keep my covenant, ye shall be to me a peculiar people above all nations; for the whole earth is mine. And ye shall be to me a royal priesthood and a holy nation: these words shalt thou speak to the children of Israel." -- Exo 19:5-6 LXX

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;" -- 1Pet 2:9

Genesis 17:1-6 | God promises Abraham will be a father of many nations, not just one.

All the western nations own their existence to Christ. Muslim nations are also descendants of Abraham. But I believe God was referring to Abraham's seed, Jesus Christ, who has been reigning over all nations since shortly after his resurrection.
.

Genesis 22:16-18 | God promises that the birthright nations among Abraham’s descendants will possess the gates (access points) of their enemies.

That was literally fulfilled when Israel entered the promised land and destroyed most (not all) of its enemies. Also by David and Solomon on similar ventures.

It will be spiritual fulfilled by Christ, completely, when Satan is defeated.
.

Genesis 26:3-5 | God promises the birthright nations will multiply as the stars of heaven.

"And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the Lord thy God." -- Deu 28:62

Deuteronomy 28 is the prophesy by Moses of the destruction of Jerusalem, 1500 years before it happened. That verse leads me to believe that our understanding of the number of the stars of heaven is not the same as the Lord's understanding.
.

Genesis 27:26-29 | God promises the birthright nations will become wealthy and rule over other nations.

They did, as aforementioned, under Solomon.
.

Genesis 28:13-14 | God promises that the birthright nations will spread worldwide.

It doesn't say that.
.

Genesis 35:11 | God promises that the birthright nations will become “a nation and a company of nations.”

That is the history of Israel from Joshua to the last king of Judah in the flesh; and in Christ and his chosen generation of kings and priests from Israel in the spirit.
.

Take an objective look at these promises in the Bible. If you believe that God exists, the Bible is His Word, and that He keeps His promises, you should look for Abraham’s descendants to appear prominently in history.

And they did, and do: as Israelites before Christ, and as Christians thereafter.
.

You should be able to see them take shape at some point as one wealthy, powerful nation and as a group of nations—a superpower and a commonwealth, you might say.

Has there ever been a people that grew into a nation that developed an extremely wealthy economy, spread around the world, fielded a super-powerful military, exerted influence over its enemies and controlled the choke points of the world?

Has there ever been a nation that fits all of these descriptions and at the same time was closely related to a commonwealth or “company of nations”?

There’s only one: the United States of America. America has been the world’s greatest singular superpower, and it came directly from the world’s greatest empire: Britain. The British Empire, and later the United States, projected power all around the world and controlled almost every important sea gate/trade route in the world.

No other nation and empire fulfill those promises so specifically and fully. But this is just one undeniable proof that the modern descendants of ancient Israel are America and Britain!

That interpretation is not of the spirit, but of the flesh. Jesus never expected his followers to lord over anyone. To the contrary:

"But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all." -- Mark 10:42-44

Generally it the psychopaths that desire to rule, and we have seen plenty of those in our lifetimes.
.

Modern Israel

The Bible records that Abraham’s children flourished into the 10-tribe nation of Israel. In Genesis 48, Abraham’s grandson Jacob—whom God renamed Israel—specifically assigned his name to Ephraim and Manasseh, saying that one of these descendants would become a “great” people (the United States), and that the other would become a “multitude of nations” (Great Britain).

If the American and British people aren’t the modern Israelites—a populous, widespread, multinational, wealthy, powerful nation and company of nations—then no one else has fulfilled or is fulfilling those promises God made. And if those promises failed, then the Bible is irrelevant and its many prophecies about Abraham’s modern descendants are pointless.

But if God’s biblical promises are true, those hundreds of prophecies apply right now.

This still leaves many questions: How did the Israelites migrate from the Middle East to the British Isles and North America? How did they lose their identity? Why did it take so long for God to fulfill those promises? These are great questions, deserving great answers and further proof.
Whether you realize it or not, the answers to those questions link directly to this urgent question: Why is America declining? The Bible answers that question! It describes exactly what is happening to the modern descendants of Abraham. Knowing America’s biblical identity unlocks countless biblical passages that explain exactly why the United States is falling so dramatically.

If there is a God, and if the Bible is His Word, then America must be modern-day Israel. It is the only nation in history that fits God’s detailed prophecies. It’s up to you to prove this exceptional truth for yourself.

You greatly err. Modern Israel is the Church, which is composed of Jews and Gentiles; but with a foundation of all Israelites (Heb 12:22-24; Eph 2:18-22; Rev 21:12, 14.) There is this caveat: you can be a Gentile and not be a Christian; but you have to be a Christian to be a Jew:

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." -- Rom 2:28-29

:)
 
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keras

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Rev20, Josephus said: the ten tribes are now a vast multitude, scattered far away...
2 Esdras 13:39-46 says the ten tribes resolved to go to distant regions...where they would keep the Laws.....
I googled Origins of European peoples and most just do not know, example is; news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130423-european-genetic-history-dna-archaeology-science/Modern Europe's Genetic History Starts in Stone Age
There is at least one website that purveys the truth; BritAm.com does have good info and facts about how the ten tribes left 'dolmens' to mark the way of their migration.

You may not believe it, but you must concede that it is possible for the Israelites exiled by the Assyrians to have firstly remained as people groups; Cimmerians, Scythians, Celts, Gaelic, Saxons, etc. then to have moved away from where the Assyrian's put them. They were not held captive, just re-settled and it makes sense for them to move to greener pastures, as population pressure, taxation and just a desire to be independent moved them.
Note in John 11:49-52, where Caiaphas prophesied 'to gather together the scattered children of God'.We await that gathering, as the modern State of Israel is far from being all the Children of God.

Rev20 asked: How long is 'not too long now'.
We do have several Biblical indications as to when the Lord will once again take action in His creation. Jesus prophesied: I will work today and tomorrow and on the third day, I shall achieve my goal.Luke 13:32 So after 2000 years He will gain His reward of the 1000 year Millennial reign. Hosea 6:2
Also Ezekiel 4:4-5 tells us the decreed punishment for Israel is 390 years. This was multiplied by 7 because of continued sin, Lev 26:18 Their final removal from the Land was in 718 BCE, add 2730 years = 2014. [Deduct 2 years for the BCE/CE year one's commencing at their start.]
I believe that I will see it all happen, so 'not too long' for me at 73 now, is no more than 20 years.
 
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Dave Watchman

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We do have several Biblical indications as to when the Lord will once again take action in His creation. Jesus prophesied: I will work today and tomorrow and on the third day, I shall achieve my goal.Luke 13:32 So after 2000 years He will gain His reward of the 1000 year Millennial reign. Hosea 6:2
Also Ezekiel 4:4-5 tells us the decreed punishment for Israel is 390 years. This was multiplied by 7 because of continued sin, Lev 26:18 Their final removal from the Land was in 718 BCE, add 2730 years = 2014. [Deduct 2 years for the BCE/CE year one's commencing at their start.]
I believe that I will see it all happen, so 'not too long' for me at 73 now, is no more than 20 years.


20 years? If I thought we had 20 years I would be building a new two car garage with an upstairs apartment and an upper floor wraparound covered deck. The reason why you and your buddy with the sunglasses can't see what I do is because your Daniel hand is weak. Daniel 7, 8, 9 and 12 has to be firing on all cylinders within your prophetic schematic or else it's going to be impossible. Whenever I read someone saying: "We still await the last seven years, as prophesied by Daniel, before the Return of Jesus", I know that they got derailed on the 70 weeks track. Or if I read another guy say: "I believe there are some New Testament prophecies that must be fulfilled; but I believe all Old Testament prophecies have already been fulfilled", I know that they are lost on Daniel 12. Daniel's 70th week was finished long ago, the Appointed Time of The End is not seven years in duration and the three prophetic time periods from Daniel 12 have not yet begun.

The Appointed Time of The End is 1335 days in duration from start to finish. It will begin very soon after the first day of spring, on the vernal equinox when there will be a full solar eclipse. Fourteen days latter there is a full lunar eclipse, these are the ones from Joel 2:31. This begins a 37 day countdown for day one of 1335 to start which will "Immediately" conclude on the 1335th day with another solar and lunar eclipse, these are the ones from Matt. 24:29. The only way to find this is by trying to fit 1335 days in between two sets of solar and lunar eclipses, seven years won't work.

It became evident to me that The Lord must have known that The Appointed Time of The End would be 1335 days in duration from before the foundation of the universe. It was then that He made a "slot" in the solar and lunar cycle for a 1335 day Time of The End to snap right into. Like bookends, two sets of solar and lunar eclipses are carving out a number of days that is just too precise to be coincidental. This slot will begin next spring and not come around again until 2033.

There might still be some time to build that garage, but I doubt it will be in 2033.
 
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BABerean2

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Luke 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

There is no Gap. The 490 years are finished. Done.


We also have the Jewish leadership accusing Stephen of claiming that Christ would fulfill Daniel 9:27. During his response to their accusation Stephen never denied this claim, because he had spoken the truth.

Act 6:14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.

The Jewish historian Josephus wrote about the fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecies.
“And indeed it so came to pass, that our nation suffered these things under Antiochus Epiphanes, according to Daniel’s vision, and what he wrote many years before they came to pass. In the very same manner Daniel also wrote concerning the Roman government, and that our country should be made desolate by them.”
The Antiquities of the Jews, Book 10, Chapter 11, 276


Daniel's 70 weeks have been completed, based on a plain, literal, reading of God's Word.


A Very Simple Timeline
26AD
John the Baptist baptized Jesus in the fall and announced him as Israel's Messiah (John 1:29-42), which concluded week 69 and began week 70 of Daniel's 70 weeks that some in Israel had been calculating for obvious reasons (Luke 2:25,38; 3:15; 23:51; 24:21).
30AD
Jesus laid down His life in the spring, at Passover, 3½ years after His baptism, in the midst of Daniel's 70th week, rose from the dead, and ascended gloriously to His throne in heaven.
30AD
The apostles received great power at Pentecost and took the gospel to Jews and then Gentiles.
33AD
The main confirming of the covenant with Jews came to an end, as Daniel's 70th week ended. Some identify this event with the stoning of Stephen, but there is insufficient evidence.
66AD
The gospel had been preached in all the world to every creature by this time, which was the final condition Jesus had determined before the Romans could come and destroy the Jews.
66AD
Sign and revelatory gifts ended, as the New Testament scripture had been written and collated.
66AD
The Jews became more and more rebellious and revolted against Caesar and Roman authority.
66AD
Cestius Gallus brought the Twelfth Legion from Antioch in November, surrounded the city, and could have taken it easily, but left for no reason and at great loss! This enflamed the Jewish rebellion with false hope, and it angered Rome greatly to totally destroy the Jews! But it began the 1290 and 1335 days prophesied by Daniel leading up to the Jews' scattering (Dan 12:1-13).
67AD
Nero appoints Vespasian in charge of Judea, who brings several legions and begins a slow and methodical campaign of destruction of the Jews from city to city that lasts for 2 years.
70AD
Believers in the city and country, knowing the warnings, and having witnessed Cestius's surrounding of Jerusalem, left for the mountains before Titus set his seige (Luke 21:20-22).
70AD
Titus, son of Emperor Vespasian and prince of Rome, united four Roman legions and destroyed the city of Jerusalem and its temple in August after a five-month siege. This ended the 1290 and 1335 days prophesied by Daniel leading up to the Jews' scattering (Dan 12:1-13).
70AD
The siege was bad enough for women to eat their children (See Josephus). But the Jews killed more themselves due to demonical factions that had no mercy for life, the city, or the temple.
70AD
The total number of dead was over 1.1 million, for Titus besieged the city at Passover, when it was filled with visitors for worship; and there were only 97,000 captives taken for slaves.
70AD
No individual city had ever endured such pain. World War II was modest in comparison. For example, Hiroshima only lost around 100,000, most of them dying instantly and painlessly.
70AD
Captives over 17 not taken to Rome for public display were carried by ship to Egypt as slaves, where they were sold very cheaply due to the supply far exceeding the demand (Deut 28:68).
70AD
Titus ordered the city dug up, until it appeared to have never been inhabited; and Terentius Rufus, commander of the Tenth Legion, plowed Mount Zion like a farmer's field (Micah 3:12).
73AD
The fortress of Masada was besieged by Rome and 1000 final Jewish rebels committed suicide. Note: For more details, chronological tables, and timelines, see the links at the bottom of this document.

From an early Baptist source: Let God Be True
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/sermons/prophecy/70ad/sermon.php?gclid=CMGes8iBj8ICFaVDMgodG2sANQ#witness11
 
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Rev20

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Rev20, Josephus said: the ten tribes are now a vast multitude, scattered far away...
2 Esdras 13:39-46 says the ten tribes resolved to go to distant regions...where they would keep the Laws.....
I googled Origins of European peoples and most just do not know, example is; news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130423-european-genetic-history-dna-archaeology-science/Modern Europe's Genetic History Starts in Stone Age
There is at least one website that purveys the truth; BritAm.com does have good info and facts about how the ten tribes left 'dolmens' to mark the way of their migration.

You may not believe it, but you must concede that it is possible for the Israelites exiled by the Assyrians to have firstly remained as people groups; Cimmerians, Scythians, Celts, Gaelic, Saxons, etc. then to have moved away from where the Assyrian's put them. They were not held captive, just re-settled and it makes sense for them to move to greener pastures, as population pressure, taxation and just a desire to be independent moved them.
Note in John 11:49-52, where Caiaphas prophesied 'to gather together the scattered children of God'.We await that gathering, as the modern State of Israel is far from being all the Children of God.

That took quite an imagination. As aforementioned, the ten "lost" tribes were never physically lost. Many kept in contact with their brethren in Judaea; and thousands who remained in areas of their former captivity, or moved to other areas outside Judaea, traveled to Jerusalem for the day of Pentecost. Check out these highlighted areas on a map:

" And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. . . And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God." -- Acts 2:5, 7-11

The Mesopotamians were those in the Euphrates-Tigris area. The Church at Babylon, that Peter wrote of in 1 Pet 5:13, was located there.

Three of those areas mentioned, Media, Parthia, and Elam, were located east of the Euphrates.

You might be interested in this page on the ten "lost" tribes:

Ten Lost Tribes? (Messianic Judaism)

[Long, but a great read.]
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Rev20 asked: How long is 'not too long now'.
We do have several Biblical indications as to when the Lord will once again take action in His creation. Jesus prophesied: I will work today and tomorrow and on the third day, I shall achieve my goal.Luke 13:32 So after 2000 years He will gain His reward of the 1000 year Millennial reign.
Hosea 6:2

No. This is that same verse, in context:

"The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee. And [Jesus] said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem." -- Luke 13:31-33

Keras, was Christ in the tomb for 3000 years, or 3 days?
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Also Ezekiel 4:4-5 tells us the decreed punishment for Israel is 390 years. This was multiplied by 7 because of continued sin, Lev 26:18

No, Keras. The "seven-fold" in Leviticus 26 was the intensity of the punishment, not the length.

For the record, the punishment for Israel was listed as 190 years in the Greek Septuagint, the OT translation quoted by Christ and his Apostles:

"For I have appointed thee their iniquities for a number of days, for a hundred and ninety days: so thou shalt bear the iniquities of the house of Israel." -- Eze 4:5 LXX

That changes things, considerably, since that was approximately the entire length of the captivity of Israel. Cobern commented:

"The captivity of Israel is here counted one hundred and fifty years longer than that of Judah; its beginning probably being reckoned from the invasion and deportation of Tiglath-pileser, 734 B.C. (2 Kings 15:39.) The one-hundred and ninety years of Israel would extend, then, from 734 B. C. to 538 B. C., the year of the restoration." [Camden M Cobern, 'Commentary on the Old Testament Vol III,' Eaton & Mains, 1901, Eze 4:4, p.65]

Another point, the famous Commentator, John Gill, presents several plausible scenerios using the 390 year Masoretic number:

"Abarbinel [Abrabanel]is of opinion that these years describe the four hundred and thirty years of Israel’s bondage in Egypt; though, he says, they may be understood of the time of the division of the kingdom under Rehoboam, from whence, to the destruction of Jerusalem, were three hundred and ninety years; which sense is best, and is what is first given;" [John Gill, 'John Gill's Old Testament Commentary,' Grace E-Books, Eze 4:4, pp.55-56]

"According to Jerom [Jerome,]both the three hundred and ninety days, and the forty days, were figurative of the captivities of Israel and Judah. The captivity of Israel, or the ten tribes, began under Pekah king of Israel, (1 Kings 15:29); when many places in the kingdom were wasted; from whence, to the fortieth year of Ahasuerus, when the Jews were entirely set at liberty, were three hundred and ninety years; and the captivity of Judah began in the first year of Jeconiah, which, to the first of Cyrus, were forty years." [John Gill, 'John Gill's Old Testament Commentary,' Grace E-Books, Eze 4:4, p.55]

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Their final removal from the Land was in 718 BCE, add 2730 years = 2014. [Deduct 2 years for the BCE/CE year one's commencing at their start.]
I believe that I will see it all happen, so 'not too long' for me at 73 now, is no more than 20 years.

LOL! Baloney.

:)
 
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Rev20

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Rev20, Josephus said: the ten tribes are now a vast multitude, scattered far away... 2 Esdras 13:39-46 says the ten tribes resolved to go to distant regions...where they would keep the Laws.....

Keras, if you make claims by historians, it is requested you provide the reference.

Where in his works did Josephus say that?

Let me help you out, Keras:

"2. When Esdras had received this epistle, he was very joyful, and began to worship God, and confessed that he had been the cause of the king's great favor to him, and that for the same reason he gave all the thanks to God. So he read the epistle at Babylon to those Jews that were there; but he kept the epistle itself, and sent a copy of it to all those of his own nation that were in Media. And when these Jews had understood what piety the king had towards God, and what kindness he had for Esdras, they were all greatly pleased; nay, many of them took their effects with them, and came to Babylon, as very desirous of going down to Jerusalem; but then the entire body of the people of Israel remained in that country; wherefore there are but two tribes in Asia and Europe subject to the Romans, while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers. Now there came a great number of priests, and Levites, and porters, and sacred singers, and sacred servants to Esdras (Ezra.) So he gathered those that were in the captivity together beyond Euphrates, and staid there three days, and ordained a fast for them, that they might make their prayers to God for their preservation, that they might suffer no misfortunes by the way, either from their enemies, or from any other ill accident; for Esdras had said beforehand that he had told the king how God would preserve them, and so he had not thought fit to request that he would send horsemen to conduct them. So when they had finished their prayers, they removed from Euphrates on the twelfth day of the first month of the seventh year of the reign of Xerxes (486-464BC, son of Darius I, ), and they came to Jerusalem on the fifth month of the same year." [Flavius Josephus, 'The Complete Works: Antiquities of the Jews,' Christian Classics Ethereal Library, Book XI.5.2, Ezra 7 & 8, p.592]

To which Wright comments:

"The people of Israel in general are spoken of by St. Paul as "our twelve tribes" (Acts xxvi. 7), and St. James writes also to "the twelve tribes scattered abroad." No countenance whatever is given in the New Testament to the fables of Josephus, or of the writer of 4th Ezra (2nd Esdras)..." [Charles H H Wright, 'Zechariah and His Prophecies,' Hodder & Stoughton, 1879, Zec.x.8-9, p.285]

But in all fairness, I believe Wright misunderstood Josephus (or misunderstood the translator.) Though Josephus states the "ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till" his day, he immediately follows up with Ezra's gathering of the third wave of exiles for their long journey to Jerusalem (Ezra 7& 8.) They most definitely were not lost, as shown on the day of Pentecost:

"And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. . . "Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia." -- Acts 2:5, 9

All of those areas are east of the Euphrates, with Mesopotamia the land of the city of Babylon that contained a Church mentioned in 1 Peter 5:13.
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Von Ewald mentions some of the previous expeditions to find the "lost tribes," along with some humorous analysis:

"Thus, in the ninth century after Christ, the learned Jew Eldad, himself descended from the tribe of Dan, undertook a fruitless journey, we are told, in search of the Ten Tribes, and other Jewish travellers, also, of the later Middle Ages were fond of discoursing of them. A zeal of a very different kind, however, Has been roused among the Christians of the last centuries of our era for the discovery of these lost tribes; and since they despaired of finding them again on the Euphrates, at least in the countless numbers of which Josephus speaks, many learned men have sought for them through the whole world. Wherever anyone fancied he had detected a certain resemblance to Jewish customs or cast of features in any distant people, there he would make out descendants of the Ten Tribes; and it often happened that scattered legends, whether obscure or boastful, among such a nation came to aid the quest, for many a Christian or Islamite tribe was ready to pride itself on such a descent on account of its sacred writings. Thus, attempts have been made to rediscover them in the Afghans, in the Sinese Jews, in the Parthians and Buddhists, nay, even in the wandering tribes of North America. But even the best attempt of this kind, namely, that made in 1840 by Dr. Asaliel Grant, to rediscover them in the Nestorian Jews and Jezids of the mountains north of the ancient Nineveh, is by no means successful.—This might seem to warrant the exactly opposite conjecture, that every one belonging to the Ten Tribes had in the early times of their deportation and settlement in a foreign land been so completely lost among the heathen, and so thoroughly adopted their character, that even at the time of the liberation under Cyrus not a single trace of them any longer remained." [George H Von Ewald, 'History of Israel Vol V - Ezra to Christ,' Longmans, Green and Co, 1874, Ezra 2:1, pp.91-93]

LOL! That is funny.

:)
 
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keras

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Keras, if you make claims by historians, it is requested you provide the reference.

Where in his works did Josephus say that?:)

Antiquities of the Jews, Book X1, chapter V, section 2: ...there are but 2 tribes in Asia subject to the Romans, [the Jews] while the ten tribes are beyond the Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude too many to count.

I hope 'baloney' is something to eat, as you may need it to go with your words, when things take place as prophesied.
 
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Rev20

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Whenever I read someone saying: "We still await the last seven years, as prophesied by Daniel, before the Return of Jesus", I know that they got derailed on the 70 weeks track. Or if I read another guy say: "I believe there are some New Testament prophecies that must be fulfilled; but I believe all Old Testament prophecies have already been fulfilled", I know that they are lost on Daniel 12. Daniel's 70th week was finished long ago.

Dave, I am the unnamed guy who believes all old testament prophesies have already been fulfilled, which, by default, includes all of Daniel. How did I get lost on Daniel 12?

:)
 
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Rev20

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Antiquities of the Jews, Book X1, chapter V, section 2: ...there are but 2 tribes in Asia subject to the Romans, [the Jews] while the ten tribes are beyond the Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude too many to count.

I hope 'baloney' is something to eat, as you may need it to go with your words, when things take place as prophesied.

This is from my guide book on understanding prophecy:

"Prophecies always take place as prophesied, but never as futurists interpret them."

:)
 
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keras

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This is from my guide book on understanding prophecy:

"Prophecies always take place as prophesied, but never as futurists interpret them.":)

Unfortunately for your belief that all the OT prophesies have taken place, the historical record just does not support that belief. Prophesies like Isaiah 24 have never had a past fulfilment and Isaiah 66:15-16, Zeph 3:8, etc, tell us how the Lord will bring His judgement onto the nations, He did that once with a great flood, He will do it again - with fire. Deut 32:22 & 34-35

Call me a 'futurist' if you like, what I point out from the Prophetic Word, is a logical, coherent and Biblically correct end times sequence of events. To discount what the prophets have told us, what is written in God's holy Word, I see as the height of foolishness and leaves all who do that 'in the dark'.
 
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Interplanner

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If you believe in the 2nd coming in worldwide judgement, you are not leaving people in the dark. Yes, there will be fire, but the day of judgement and the results will be quick. The basic plain-language texts of the NT about the 2nd coming show this. Nothing needs to happen Judaically or regionally.
 
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Dave Watchman

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Dave, I am the unnamed guy who believes all old testament prophesies have already been fulfilled, which, by default, includes all of Daniel.

How did I get lost on Daniel 12?


:)


Rev20,

I don't know how you got lost on Daniel 12 or for that matter all the other books of Daniel, I can only speculate on the various possibilities.

Did you pick the wrong church or buy the wrong books?

Do you think it's because of what Paul was talking about in Corinthians?

The Body with many members?

He gives wisdom to the wise?

He reveals the deep and the hidden things?

Maybe you were given the gift to distinguish between spirits but not the understanding of apocalyptic prophecy. The Spirit apportions to each one individually as he wills. The foot should never be jealous of the eye. If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

It might just mean that you shouldn't write guide books on understanding apocalyptic prophecy.
Can all be apostles? Can all be prophets? Can all be teachers? Can all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? It's not wrong to earnestly desire the higher gifts.

Don't feel bad, maybe you would be better at writing guide books on five point Calvinism.

This is from MY Guide Book on understanding prophecy:

"And I will show you a still more excellent way"
 
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