Theists: would you choose to undergo a procedure that makes you an atheist?

LOVEthroughINTELLECT · Nov 25, 2014

If there was hypnotherapy; some other form of psychotherapy; some form of neurosurgery; etc. that would rid you of your belief in deities, and if atheism is defined as the lack of belief in deities, then that procedure would make you an atheist. Would you choose to undergo that procedure?

Do you believe that there would be benefits to undergoing that procedure? Better mental health? Better relationships? More freedom? Less stress?

What do you think would happen to all of your other beliefs? If, say, you believe that abortion is morally wrong, do you think that ridding yourself of the belief in deities would result in you no longer believing that abortion is morally wrong? Or would all of your other beliefs remain intact?

If you are a Christian, what do you think your relationship with Christianity would be? Is Christianity entirely cognitive and therefore you would be left with only raw facts such as its name, its chronology, its social structure, etc.? Or would things like the emotions that your faith gave you, such as loving your enemies; abilities it encouraged you to develop, such as empathy; etc. still be a part of you?

Do you believe that if such a procedure were developed and able to be mass-produced that some people--Sam Harris, maybe--would try to use political resources to coerce you into undergoing it against your will?

Eudaimonist · Nov 25, 2014

LOVEthroughINTELLECT said:
Do you believe that if such a procedure were developed and able to be mass-produced that some people--Sam Harris, maybe--would try to use political resources to coerce you into undergoing it against your will?

An even more interesting SF scenario is whether or not evangelizing religions would use a similar technique on atheists to save their souls, because eternal life trumps all other moral considerations.

But I don't mean to derail the thread. I'm interested to hear how Christians will respond.

eudaimonia,

Mark

MehGuy · Nov 25, 2014

Lol, what..

Euler · Nov 25, 2014

There's a much simpler way to convert a theist into a non-believer.

Have him read the Bible.

ALL of it.

selfinflikted · Nov 25, 2014

Euler said:
There's a much simpler way to convert a theist into a non-believer.

Have him read the Bible.

ALL of it.

Well, it definitely played a major role in me leaving the faith.

jayem · Nov 25, 2014

I like how Mark Twain put it:

"It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me. It is the parts that I do understand."

LOVEthroughINTELLECT · Nov 25, 2014

Euler said:
There's a much simpler way to convert a theist into a non-believer.

Have him read the Bible.

ALL of it.

Would this eradication of belief be an emotional response or the result of the deliberate use of reason?

keith99 · Nov 25, 2014

LOVEthroughINTELLECT said:
Would this eradication of belief be an emotional response or the result of the deliberate use of reason?

Reasoned. Such reading often destroys the image of God that Christians claim.

Technically it does not provide a strong argument for atheism, just an argument against the portrayal of one God.

Eudaimonist · Nov 25, 2014

keith99 said:
Reasoned. Such reading often destroys the image of God that Christians claim.

Technically it does not provide a strong argument for atheism, just an argument against the portrayal of one God.

Yes, what it does is to shake the illusion of certainty that surrounds the concept of the Christian God. That frees up one's mind to engage in further critical thinking.

eudaimonia,

Mark

DeonCruywagen · Nov 25, 2014

Eudaimonist said:
An even more interesting SF scenario is whether or not evangelizing religions would use a similar technique on atheists to save their souls, because eternal life trumps all other moral considerations.

But I don't mean to derail the thread. I'm interested to hear how Christians will respond.

eudaimonia,

Mark

That would be pointless and totally against God's will. Totally. Let me share with you something the Holy Spirit once shared with me.

I was thinking about the fact that we have a free will, and can therefore choose not to serve God. I wondered why that was so. Why did God not make us all so that we would automatically just choose Him? And then the Holy Spirit shared this analogy with me:

Imagine you are very alone, and you just want someone in your life to love you. So, being a smart person, you program a computer to say: "I love you," "You are the most wonderful person on Earth," "You are beautiful," "I adore you", "You are the love of my life," "You are so special," "I can't get enough of you," etc, etc. Would you feel loved? Would this satisfy your longing for someone to truly love you? Of course not! That computer has no choice in the matter. It cannot turn around and say that it does not love you. It has no free will of it's own. And that is why God gave us a free will. So that will CHOOSE to love Him. That way He knows we truly do love Him.

So you see, to program someone to love God, by bypassing his free will is totally against God's wishes. He gave a free will so that we would freely choose Him. And it is truly sad when we don't.

Blessings. Your friend in Christ,
Deon

Eudaimonist · Nov 25, 2014

DeonCruywagen said:
Would you feel loved? Would this satisfy your longing for someone to truly love you? Of course not! That computer has no choice in the matter.

What you are describing is not a new idea, by the way, but putting that aside, what would it matter to God whether he was loved by human beings or not? It does not matter to me if my laptop computer, VCR, alarm clock, and similar electronic devices love me or not.

eudaimonia,

Mark

DeonCruywagen · Nov 25, 2014

Eudaimonist said:
What you are describing is not a new idea, by the way, but putting that aside, what would it matter to God whether he was loved by human beings or not?

Because He made us. Do you have children? Would you love them even if they chose not to love you? His greatest desire, the reason He made us, was to have fellowship with us. Why? I don't know, but I sure am grateful He did. No other relationship you can ever experience compares to this.

LOVEthroughINTELLECT · Nov 25, 2014

DeonCruywagen said:
That would be pointless and totally against God's will. Totally. Let me share with you something the Holy Spirit once shared with me.

I was thinking about the fact that we have a free will, and can therefore choose not to serve God. I wondered why that was so. Why did God not make us all so that we would automatically just choose Him? And then the Holy Spirit shared this analogy with me:

Imagine you are very alone, and you just want someone in your life to love you. So, being a smart person, you program a computer to say: "I love you," "You are the most wonderful person on Earth," "You are beautiful," "I adore you", "You are the love of my life," "You are so special," "I can't get enough of you," etc, etc. Would you feel loved? Would this satisfy your longing for someone to truly love you? Of course not! That computer has no choice in the matter. It cannot turn around and say that it does not love you. It has no free will of it's own. And that is why God gave us a free will. So that will CHOOSE to love Him. That way He knows we truly do love Him.

So you see, to program someone to love God, by bypassing his free will is totally against God's wishes. He gave a free will so that we would freely choose Him. And it is truly sad when we don't.

Blessings. Your friend in Christ,
Deon

Okay, would a procedure that you choose to undergo or are forced to undergo that rids you of belief in deities result in you no longer loving God?

God might lose that love. Would you lose anything in the process?

DeonCruywagen · Nov 25, 2014

LOVEthroughINTELLECT said:
Okay, would a procedure that you choose to undergo or are forced to undergo that rids you of belief in deities result in you no longer loving God?

I doubt it. He is in my heart and in my spirit. No procedure can touch Him there.

LOVEthroughINTELLECT said:
God might lose that love. Would you lose anything in the process?

I would love EVERYTHING. But I am not afraid of such a procedure. You see, I (all Christians for that matter) have a promise, and that is that God will not allow us to go through anything that tempts us above what we are able to withstand. So even if I was forced to undergo such a procedure, I would not fear it. I would simply trust God.

Blessings. Your brother in Christ,
Deon

Archie the Preacher · Nov 25, 2014

LOVEthroughINTELLECT said:
If there was ...neurosurgery; etc. that would rid you of your belief in deities... Would you choose to undergo that procedure?

No. I would prefer to keep my reasoning faculties.

Strathos · Nov 25, 2014

Archie the Preacher said:
No. I would prefer to keep my reasoning faculties.

FutureAndAHope · Nov 25, 2014

Studies show that believers have better mental health. See the following link as an example:

'Godliness is the key to healthiness': Religion boosts mental health, research says | Daily Mail Online

As a Christian, I am 100% happy, no fear of death, no fear of what life will bring. I trust God. Why would I want a life that ends in 80 years, with no helper but myself, and a couple of friends.

Poddie · Nov 25, 2014

Euler said:
There's a much simpler way to convert a theist into a non-believer.

Have him read the Bible.

ALL of it.

selfinflikted said:
Well, it definitely played a major role in me leaving the faith.

You two will be back

!!! LOL

Blessings

Euler · Nov 26, 2014

Poddie said:
You two will be back !!! LOL

Blessings

Back? I've never 'been'.

Poddie · Nov 26, 2014

Euler said:
Back? I've never 'been'.

How much have you read? What experiences have you had with Christianity?

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