Ellen White discrepancies

JohnMarsten

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In reference to you John... you have been coming into this forum and scoffing for quite a while now.

If you don't believe the tenets of traditional Adventism, including the writings of sister white, then why do you persist in posting here your variances and strifes against our belief?

:) so I was right in my assessment :)

Well, thats a good question actually, why am I coming to this forum...

Well, I guess there is no simple answer, maybe because I have an SDA background and would to share my thoughts with you, could that be? as in not wanting to be left alone with my thoughts? I guess there arent too many non-sda people who would be interested in stuff like that or would even know what its like to be involved in the SDA and lead an SDA life.

So I guess if I have thoughts and feelings about the SDA, why shouldnt I share them on an SDA forum, maybe my feelings and thoughts are wrong (could be) and then maybe somebody would write something interesting and prove me wrong (even though its highly unlikely I guess, but still). Very often have I written something and nobody seemed to care or wouldnt know how to answer.

I believe if we are all brothers and sisters of the Truth then we can speak up freely and talk about what bothers us. Without having to fear that we may think or actually believe in might differ from the tenets egw prescribed. Its like in a dictatorship where you cannot speak up because of repercussions, is this the same in the SDA? - I think so...
 
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Ubuntu

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In reference to you John... you have been coming into this forum and scoffing for quite a while now.

If you don't believe the tenets of traditional Adventism, including the writings of sister white, then why do you persist in posting here your variances and strifes against our belief?

Brother,

a forum like this isn't sabbath school. In church you primarily meet believers with an established faith; but on Internet forums we meet a different crowd, people who aren't necessarily regular church goers, people who might have become disillusioned with the church.

I don't think we should jump to conclusions regarding the sincerity (or lack thereof) when it comes to individuals who have problems with adventism and Ellen White. The impression many people have of Ellen White is as someone who insisted that people keep innumerable rules, they don't know her as the incredibly progressive, complex female evangelist she truly was.

Now, of course Ellen White was no legalist, but my point is that many people (including adventists) have a distorted view of Ellen White, and when someone is skeptical about Ellen White we don't know if that person is rejecting the Spirit of Prophecy, or if he or she merely is rejecting the common misrepresentation of her.

I mean, just google “Ellen White” and the first thing you notice is a lot of websites with conspiracy theories about what a deceived lunatic Ellen White supposedly was. No wonder that people have difficulties when it comes to EGW, or what?

We should always give people the benefit of doubt, and I don't think JohnMarsten has been disrespectful in this thread, even if we might not agree with everything he writes. Some people are doubting Thomases, and we should be careful not to push such people away.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Thank you Ubuntu for posting your concern about my rebuking John. This is not recent behaviour by him and he self admits to probably not being convinced by our attempts to educate him on various SDA beliefs. I do pray that he softens his heart and execises more faith.

Yes, i agree that this is not an official organ of the church, however, there are those that come to these forums truly seeking knowledge about Adventism and if they continually read dissenters and scoffers remarks about our faith, they may, and probably have, been sent down a path leading to their destruction.

John is by no means the first, or will be the last, poster to try and come into our forum and sow seeds of doubt. If it was not for diligent watchers on the wall, this forum would have to change it's name to Tearing Down Adventism.
 
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JohnMarsten

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Thank you Ubuntu for posting your concern about my rebuking John. This is not recent behaviour by him and he self admits to probably not being convinced by our attempts to educate him on various SDA beliefs. I do pray that he softens his heart and execises more faith.

Yes, i agree that this is not an official organ of the church, however, there are those that come to these forums truly seeking knowledge about Adventism and if they continually read dissenters and scoffers remarks about our faith, they may, and probably have, been sent down a path leading to their destruction.

John is by no means the first, or will be the last, poster to try and come into our forum and sow seeds of doubt. If it was not for diligent watchers on the wall, this forum would have to change it's name to Tearing Down Adventism.

I have given it some thought and must agree with you ECR. I dont necessarily think that my intentions were evil or meant to ridicule. I guess they were rather meant to be thoughtprovoking.

As a matter of fact I have made the decision to cease from partaking on this forum. I wanted to do that already in the past but failed in this endeavor. From now on I will continue to be a passive observer! I hope this will make everyone happy!
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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A desire and spirit to know the truth is all that's needed... I'm not saying you have to agree 100% with doctrine but planting seeds of doubt is not the best course... I myself don't adhere to the health reform as sister White instructs but I don't promote anarchy against all the wonderful instruction and wisdom she was given.

We are blessed as a movement to have such undeniable light even though we may not yet see all of it's wisdom. Lets not spurn what God has given but lets strive for continual surrender.
 
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Robert Bee

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"Blessed are they that die in CHRIST from henceforth"
Now that solves the issue of being TRANSLATED yet all really in graves.
EGW is a person but what GOD said will happen. Just as creating this world from nothing.
Take care GOD is in CONTROL.
The BIBLE needs cross referencing to understand point beyond human logic.
There is plenty there. The law is the character of GOD. You can work that out by cross checking the BIBLE .
 
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masmpg

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Right we find discrepancies in the bible as well. However, the bible was written by many different people over periods of time and then translated into numerous languages...

EGWs writings are supposed to have originated from one person who wrote over a specific period of time. She claimed to have received that wisdom from the Lord and is regarded as the final interpreter of scripture. She is viewed as authority and many SDAs try to implement her writings into their lifes. EGW glasses are put on and all kinds of matters are viewed through them, even other people are frequently judged using her standards.

IMHO it is only natural to be critical if such high standards are claimed by a person. And if her writings are opposed to bible standards or facts, then why not speak up and address the issue?

I believe that the first thing in a christian life is the Truth. The Truth is Jesus! It is written in the bible that liars will not enter heaven. So living in Truth requires truthfulness and honesty, I guess. So why not speak up and address an issue that is seemingly problematic? Why not admit that what she wrote might be wrong? Why try vehemently bend the truth in order to make her writings fit?


Ellen White wrote over 150,000 pages and to find three sentences that might sound different then what we might interpret them to be and say all her writings are false is quite the stretch. To be critical of her writings is normal, and all teachings from ALL sources must be compared to God's holy word the KJV bible. Paul commended the Bereans for doing just that. The only thing I suggest to all who want to dismiss all her writings as false because of a couple discrepancies is to read them and find out, and I guaranty you will be converted if you let the Holy Spirit speak to your heart. Start with Steps to Christ.

When I first joined the SDA denomination I was very irritated by all the references to Ellen White. Consequently I didn't run to find all the faults from web sites, I didn't run to the naysayers to find fault. I read her writings very critically. I wanted to show from her writings that she does not agree with the bible. After reading may of her books and periodicals I was converted. Just the book Steps to Christ, which is the most powerful book ever written next to the bible, and it was translated into more languages than any other book next to the bible, would give a glimpse of how much she loved Jesus. For a third grader to write what she did is not even conceivable unless she was inspired to do so. Just like Gideon who was the least of all the tribes of Israel, or David, a lowly shepherd boy. God uses the weak things of this world to confound the mighty. I praise Him every minute of every day for that because I am the chief of sinners and He still uses me to share the truth that I prayed all my life to receive.
 
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BobRyan

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I am an Adventist but, I don't believe in Ellen White mainly because of a few of her writings are either false or out of sync with biblical teachings.

Before we go too far down a rabbit trail -- tell us what your view is of SDA doctrine since you are "SDA"?

Let's start with the Daniel 7 "Investigative Judgment" -- is that doctrine correct in your view?

What about the Revelation 15:8 close of probation where we are left in Rev 16 without anyone in the Sanctuary interceding for the saints - is that doctrine correct in your view?
 
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BobRyan

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2.Ellen G. White said people alive in 1856 would be translated at the 2nd coming of Jesus. (Testimonies, V1, p 131,132).

You are skimming over too many details.

1 Thess 4 "WE who ARE ALIVE and remain will be caught up together with THEM in the air to meet the Lord"

Jonah said "yet 40 days and Ninevah WILL BE DESTROYED" - then that did not happen. Jonah did not say "REPENT turn from your sins lest you be destroyed" -- read the text and see.

Then read the Jeremiah 18 doctrine on conditional prophecy.

"Give me the Bible AND the WORDS IN the Bible" -- not just " a Bible with no attention to Bible details".
 
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BobRyan

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Thank you Ubuntu for posting your concern about my rebuking John. This is not recent behaviour by him and he self admits to probably not being convinced by our attempts to educate him on various SDA beliefs. I do pray that he softens his heart and exercises more faith. .

As with most of those cases - the real issue is Bible study -

If one rejects the Bible - it is that much easier to reject those prophets that agree with the Bible. I prefer to "get to the source" of the issue rather than chase rabbit trails.

As for people "kicking the tires" -- it does not take a rocket scientist or mechanical engineer to kick a tire.

Those folks are seldom found to be good bible students - in that they know much more about snippet-quotes-for-sniping and almost nothing about the Bible itself.
 
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masmpg

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As with most of those cases - the real issue is Bible study -

If one rejects the Bible - it is that much easier to reject those prophets that agree with the Bible. I prefer to "get to the source" of the issue rather than chase rabbit trails.

As for people "kicking the tires" -- it does not take a rocket scientist or mechanical engineer to kick a tire.

Those folks are seldom found to be good bible students - in that they know much more about snippet-quotes-for-sniping and almost nothing about the Bible itself.


Right on Bob. I weep every morning as I post comments on forums and news sites. Far too many people, Jesus said the majority, will follow the broad road to destruction. I posted a comment on one site about how unimportant opinions are in regards to our salvation. Jesus said the Comforter will teach us all things, and John said we are to let no man teach us. We are to take every sermon, seminar, and talk to the word of God for ourselves to make certain we are being led of the Holy Spirit. I just pray earnestly every day for more to realize this fact.
 
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masmpg

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Ellen White said that if there is a difference between the Bible and her writings, to go with the Bible... she recognized the Word as the only infallible guide.

Is it possible that while God did indeed use her as a lesser light to illuminate the greater, that there were writings given to test God's people on this point. As you said, there are many that are almost fanatical in there adherance and promotion of certain doctrines that are either not truly supported by the scriptures without a great deal of exegetical acrobatics, or are clearly contrary to the proof text method of scripture.

When people make diet a salvational issue, you have to dismiss it as there is no Biblical evidence for it... therefore those people are making an idol of sister Whites writings above the Word. The Bible does support her idea of temperance in food and drink but not of abstinance.


The way I like to explain the diet and dress issues is that there is no such thing as righteousness by diet, nor righteousness by tie, ETC, ONLY righteousness by faith.
 
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Sabbathkeeper&Wife

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How true. BUT also, like God's health laws, for instance. Just plain ol common sense . Swine is a garbage eater. My absolute favorite dish in the whole wide world is pork tenderloin. Not loin, tenderloin. It's the same ad fillet mignon of pig. Wrapped in bacon, grilled to perfection. Hmmmmmm. But I don't eat pork anymore. Shrimp and lobster absorb all the muck off the ocean floor. Since the gulf spill AND the stuff they made to spray onto the oil spill instead of removing it, which hardens it and makes it sink to the ocean floor so you don't see it, the shrimp have a 50% cull rate because of visible tumors on gulf shrimp! That means HALF of the shrimp get tossed because they appear unpalatable. That's only visual. I have a very close friend who worked at that chemical co in Miss. and you wouldn't believe the stuff they pull to stay profitable at the expense of your life! They could care less whether it kills you or not. That goes for the oil co, the chemo co, the vendors and all. Personally, if I owned a grocery store chain, I couldn't sell shrimp and sleep at night, but do you see anyone refusing to sell it? You also notice that the prices of shrimp haven't gone up that much, which means they just passed the LOSS of half the take onto the poor fishermen. THAT is the saddest part.
 
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masmpg

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If I owned a grocery store today I probably would not sell many groceries! LOL!
I was poisoned with roundup about 30 years ago. I owned a landscaping business and sprayed a whole yard, everything, trees, shrubs that I didn't take out for myself. This customer wanted a "new" yard of ALL rock, cobbles to be exact, over 100 tons of them and my wife and I hand set every one. While I sprayed I payed no mind to it getting in my face and all over my body, and I went and ate afterwards without washing my hands like a dummy. I called monsanto around 1986 and asked them what the treatment was for roundup poisoning, they assured me that they were in denial by telling me roundup is non toxic to humans. I was in and out of the emergency room and alternative treatments. I was allergic to almost everything I ate. I finally tried fever treatments. I sweated out the toxins and was able to eat fairly normal again, that is until the GMO (#2 pandora's box) food was marketed. Now I have quite a time eating any store bought foods. I try to buy only "non GMO" but they stopped putting labels on products when the DARK act passed a few months ago. I desperately need a garden, but where I live I am just care taking the place and have no idea how long I will be here.
Mealtime to me is a ritual. I enjoy eating very much,so to me eating has become sacred. I do not idolize it but I eat so slow so I can enjoy every bite. trying to figure out what won't mess up my stomach is another story.

As far as the pigs of the sea, shellfish, Prevention magazine did an article on oysters and found that they had 90 times more polio virus in them then the surrounding water. That is why they are called "filter feeders". Some of health is common sense, but we need to be taught health by our parents so we can carry on with our bodies in the same thought. My buddy lets his children eat anything they want. He has been doing this since they were 2-3 years old. He says that they know what their body needs, so he gives them ice cream before dinner because they want it. Its funny how they never seem to grow.

My all time favorite has always been prime rib. I am pretty much vegan until the holidays. I buy myself 1 grass fed prime rib and a free range turkey. Every once in a while I will grab a halibut steak from costco...mucho$$$ but YUMMY! Far better than any lobster.

At our RV park in Baja some of the campers would go out and get lobsters, and we would boil them on the beach bonfire in a huge pot. Those were the days when lobster became less desired to say the least.
 
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Yup, Got a small 4 bone prime rib for Christmas dinner. Bone on, complete with the brisket! I'm not sure what everyone else here will eat. That reminds me, I'd like to share a picture of a box of cereal with you. The name fits more appropriately than ANY other I've ever seen. Reckon there's any GMOs in this box of "Golden Gruel" ?
 
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Sabbathkeeper&Wife

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BTW- roundup has almost the exact chemical AND molecular make up as agent orange. It's some WICKED stuff. Made by: none other than Monsanto. I saw a few weeks ago that Monsaint-o was being sold or bought or offered by someone. It was noone I'd heard of. When I first heard about it, Nestlé came to mind. Lol, but it wasn't - on the surface anyway. I wonder if the Nestlé easter bunny (so harmless, fuzzy and sweet) was intentional? On things of this nature, on such a grand scale- things are always intentional . IIRC, the quick bunny AND the trix bunny were both thieves and always got nabbed trying to secure a "fix" of" kiddie krack".
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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BTW- roundup has almost the exact chemical AND molecular make up as agent orange. It's some WICKED stuff. Made by: none other than Monsanto. I saw a few weeks ago that Monsaint-o was being sold or bought or offered by someone. It was noone I'd heard of. When I first heard about it, Nestlé came to mind. Lol, but it wasn't - on the surface anyway. I wonder if the Nestlé easter bunny (so harmless, fuzzy and sweet) was intentional? On things of this nature, on such a grand scale- things are always intentional . IIRC, the quick bunny AND the trix bunny were both thieves and always got nabbed trying to secure a "fix" of" kiddie krack".
The company buying Monsanto is Bayer, the pharmaceutical giant... more good news for mankind.

Btw, did you know that over 90% of wheat crops are "finished" with Roundup to unify the ripening process and thereby increasing yield for the farmer? This leaves a tasty level of glysophate behind which is the probably cause of most of the "new" maladies ie: gluten intolerance, ibf, and the myriad of inflammation diseases.
 
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masmpg

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View attachment 185126 Yup, Got a small 4 bone prime rib for Christmas dinner. Bone on, complete with the brisket! I'm not sure what everyone else here will eat. That reminds me, I'd like to share a picture of a box of cereal with you. The name fits more appropriately than ANY other I've ever seen. Reckon there's any GMOs in this box of "Golden Gruel" ?

GMO is no joke. Monsanto, who was just purchased by Bayer, the aspirin company, created what they call "round up ready" crops, but especially corn and soy. What that means is that the farmers can spray as much round up on the crops as they need to kill the weeds and not affect the crop. So when GMO corn and soy are consumed much round up is consumed also. Whenever I eat round up my intestines swell shut. When I eat non grass fed meat, well, I almost killed myself eating meat. Recently they added another chemical "dicamba" to the already deadly cocktail because of the "superweeds"that are immune to round up and some have even mutated into very dangerous plants. They were talking about adding 24-d (agent orange) to the mix but I guess the EPA was so bombarded with complaints about it they shelved it for a while, but soon they will add the 24-d because the weeds will keep mutating. The reason I say that GMO is the #2 pandora's box is that soon people will drop dead from eating an ear of corn, if it hasn't happened already. People have died in India when they tried to force GMO on the rice crop there. BTW the #1 pandora's box is nuclear radiation, which has been dumping in the pacific ocean since fukashima by the tons for over 5 years, and they wonder why so many fish are dying every day. The lamestream megaliars are silent and complicit and should all be accused of murder, treason, conspiracy for all the tragedies they refuse to report that results in death and destruction by their corporate bosses.

I was vegetarian for 25 years and 15 of that was when I was raising my children vegan. When my oldest son died at 23 I was devastated and alone with no church "family" of 25 years to support, call, visit, NOTHING. I went back into the world. Drinking, drugs, eating everything. After about a year of this I was having huge problems with my stomach, in fact I didn't even care about life at the time. I would never consider suicide, but this sin sick world is quite heart breaking for a guy like me, who cares too much. After being sick all over again from the round up I started having heart problem, my stomach had sharp pains... Finally I fasted for a while and quit eating meat and lost 4 belt sizes in a month. Meat is loaded with GMO. ALL corporate cattle is fed a mixture of grains, dead cows, manure, and whatever else they can cheaply feed cows to grow the steaks with. All the poisons that the cows eat concentrate in the fat, and with today's cattle farming they are given hormones to induce fat throughout the meat for flavor, "marbling". When the fat is consumed so is loads of round up.

I have seen these boxes of cereal at the India or Asian markets. I am not to certain about GMOs but the sugar content is through the roof.

I have always been health conscious, but once I realized that there is so much inedible additives to foods I had to question it all. When my ex and I became vegetarians it took us 5-6 hours to shop to figure out what is what. We walked around the stores with our little "additives book" that explained what each additive was and whether or not it was toxic and many of them really are. Many of the additives we use in USA are banned in other parts of the world, like red 40, all nitrates/nitrites/sulfites among many others, even carigeenan. These are dangerous and proven cancer inhibitors.
 
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masmpg

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The company buying Monsanto is Bayer, the pharmaceutical giant... more good news for mankind.

Btw, did you know that over 90% of wheat crops are "finished" with Roundup to unify the ripening process and thereby increasing yield for the farmer? This leaves a tasty level of glysophate behind which is the probably cause of most of the "new" maladies ie: gluten intolerance, ibf, and the myriad of inflammation diseases.

I have been battling with all those symptoms for 30 years. Every time I eat GMO my stomach goes nuts. I agree that most of the "gluten" intolerance complaints are attributed directly to round up. When I was poisoned from round up in the 80s I had allergic reactions to almost everything I ate. Most of the doctors I spoke with would say it was celiac sprue (gluten intolerance), or epstien bar virus, chronic fatigue syndrome. After 8 years of emergency room visits and alternative health advice and treatments I finally used my sweat box to give myself fever treatments to sweat out the toxin and it worked until the later 90s when the GMO foods started hitting the shelves in the stores. Now I am having quite a time figuring out what to eat because of the dark act where labeling laws are illegal.

We are told that those preparing for translation will have the most simple diet of "fruit and grains". BUT much fruit is GMO and its impossible to tell unless we grow them. I like papya, but that is the most genetically modified fruit of all. It is the easiest to grow so it has been the most tampered with.

Here is what we are told: "I come again to Christians. If all who profess to obey the law of God were free from iniquity, my soul would be relieved; but they are not. Even some who profess to keep all the commandments of God are guilty of the sin of adultery. What can I say to arouse their benumbed sensibilities? Moral principle, strictly carried out, becomes the only safeguard of the soul. If ever there was a time when the diet should be of the most simple kind, it is now. Meat should not be placed before our children. Its influence is to excite and strengthen the lower passions, and has a tendency to deaden the moral powers. Grains and fruits prepared free from grease, and in as natural a condition as possible, should be the food for the tables of all who claim to be preparing for translation to heaven. The less feverish the diet, the more easily can the passions be controlled. Gratification of taste should not be consulted irrespective of physical, intellectual, or moral health." { 2T 352.1}
 
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