Why does the left preach tolerance?

The Twister said:

Well said.

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Paul via the Spirit says it best.

Romans 1:18-32
Judgment of Sinning Humanity

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,†
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,†
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.†
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.†
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,†
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,†
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Reminds me of that depression commercial: "Who does depression hurt? Everyone."

Who does the truth hurt? Apparently, liberals. I love it when atheists and other liberals fail to realize (99%) or pretend (1%) that the "bad stuff" against homosexuality isn't limited to Leviticus; it isn't limited to the OT. Hurrr durrr the NT doesn't say anything about gays... Yes, it does. Well... Hurrr durrr Christ never said anything about gays... Yes, he did. Nothing was made that was made without Christ; he was there in the beginning with the Father, and is the same yesterday, today, and forever; he is GOD, and he didn't magically change his mind between testaments. His gift of the Holy Spirit also didn't lead Paul to write falsehoods.

And yes, we all know he speaks of more than just homosexuality. But homosexuality is the hot topic and where the Leviticus comment came from. How do we know? Because it's the same ignorant claim made time and time again. But now watch as he miraculously meant something different; the Pope says God isn't a magician, but people often are.

Athelstan said:

I don't agree with homosexuality. It's specifically condemned in Scripture.

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I have no problem with that statement and I'm a liberal. To my knowledge, I've never spoken against someone saying that.

When you say that and then proceed to tell me how because you disagree with it the people who are homosexuals should be deprived rights other people can take advantage of, that's when I speak out against it because I am for the rights of all, not just the rights of all I agree with or like.

People are often shocked that I defend the rights of the KKK, Neo-Nazis, or other racist organizations. It is my belief that as long as they don't violate the law, these groups should be allowed to exist and not legally barred from meeting. That doesn't mean they are special snowflakes that cannot be spoke out against, but they have a right to be a group.

Athelstan said:

Paul via the Spirit says it best.

Romans 1:18-32
Judgment of Sinning Humanity

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,†
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,†
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.†
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.†
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,†
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,†
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Reminds me of that depression commercial: "Who does depression hurt? Everyone."

Who does the truth hurt? Apparently, liberals. I love it when atheists and other liberals fail to realize (99%) or pretend (1%) that the "bad stuff" against homosexuality isn't limited to Leviticus; it isn't limited to the OT. Hurrr durrr the NT doesn't say anything about gays... Yes, it does. Well... Hurrr durrr Christ never said anything about gays... Yes, he did. Nothing was made that was made without Christ; he was there in the beginning with the Father, and is the same yesterday, today, and forever; he is GOD, and he didn't magically change his mind between testaments. His gift of the Holy Spirit also didn't lead Paul to write falsehoods.

And yes, we all know he speaks of more than just homosexuality. But homosexuality is the hot topic and where the Leviticus comment came from. How do we know? Because it's the same ignorant claim made time and time again. But now watch as he miraculously meant something different; the Pope says God isn't a magician, but people often are.

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Truth doesn't hurt. You appointing yourself judge jury and executioner is annoying. But thanks for agreeing that conservativesnget stuck on one or two sins. Somehow that gives them the right to commit several others in order to help God pass judgment.
Liberals do not think God needs the help.

I'm trying to figure out where anyone said anything about being a judge, juror, or executioner. I especially can't find where I said it about myself, or even implied it. Or are we playing the "thou shalt not judge" Matthew 7:1-6 game? Oh please, let's not; I'm sick of liberals twisting that scripture:

On Judging Others

1 “Judge not, that you be not judged.
2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.†
3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?
4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye?
5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.†

A couple of things here: I'm a sinner. I know that. I acknowledge that. I see that. I, therefore, am not blind to another's sin. This passage also doesn't mean that we can never point out the sins of others or that we have to be completely silent and fail to teach the sinner scripture; we are not to CONDEMN the person, and I'm not, and neither is anyone else. The perfect example is the woman caught in adultery:

John 8:1-11:
1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them.
3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst,
4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?Ӡ
6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.
7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”†
8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

THAT ^ is what we are not allowed to do. If you're a homosexual, I can tell you what scripture says, and that doesn't have anything to do with not judging others according to Matthew 7.

We are not stuck on specific sins. Some sins are just more controversial and more of a hot topic issue than others, and thus they get discussed more. When it stops getting shoved in or faces (homosexuality), we will stop speaking about it so much. But YOU have to stop before we stop, for we cannot do anything other than to teach and preach the Word of God. If you have a problem with that, so be it.

Don't falsely accuse or twist scripture to me. It's beyond annoying at this point.

LoAmmi said:

I have no problem with that statement and I'm a liberal. To my knowledge, I've never spoken against someone saying that.

When you say that and then proceed to tell me how because you disagree with it the people who are homosexuals should be deprived rights other people can take advantage of, that's when I speak out against it because I am for the rights of all, not just the rights of all I agree with or like.

People are often shocked that I defend the rights of the KKK, Neo-Nazis, or other racist organizations. It is my belief that as long as they don't violate the law, these groups should be allowed to exist and not legally barred from meeting. That doesn't mean they are special snowflakes that cannot be spoke out against, but they have a right to be a group.

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Good, and I think you're honest enough to admit that you are the exception and that this isn't usually the case, right?

Athelstan said:

I'm trying to figure out where anyone said anything about being a judge, juror, or executioner. I especially can't find where I said it about myself, or even implied it. Or are we playing the "thou shalt not judge" Matthew 7:1-6 game? Oh please, let's not; I'm sick of liberals twisting that scripture:

On Judging Others

1 “Judge not, that you be not judged.
2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.†
3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?
4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye?
5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.†

A couple of things here: I'm a sinner. I know that. I acknowledge that. I see that. I, therefore, am not blind to another's sin. This passage also doesn't mean that we can never point out the sins of others or that we have to be completely silent and fail to teach the sinner scripture; we are not to CONDEMN the person, and I'm not, and neither is anyone else. The perfect example is the woman caught in adultery:

John 8:1-11:
1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them.
3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst,
4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?Ӡ
6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.
7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”†
8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

THAT ^ is what we are not allowed to do. If you're a homosexual, I can tell you what scripture says, and that doesn't have anything to do with not judging others according to Matthew 7.

We are not stuck on specific sins. Some sins are just more controversial and more of a hot topic issue than others, and thus they get discussed more. When it stops getting shoved in or faces (homosexuality), we will stop speaking about it so much. But YOU have to stop before we stop, for we cannot do anything other than to teach and preach the Word of God. If you have a problem with that, so be it.

Don't falsely accuse or twist scripture to me. It's beyond annoying at this point.

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Just so I know the rules: when I talk about scripture its "twisting." When you talk about it, its exactly what God intends it to mean?

Hope that log in your eye doesnt cause too much pain. By the way, the bible speaks of the sin of drunkenness. Does buying weed illegally and getting high count or do you have God cornered on a technicality? Yes, i just judged you unfairly. My point is, being judged by someone in no position to know is harmful and not really fair. Hence, I'm pointing out the speck in your eye hoping you will see the hypocrisy of railing against others. Thats the difference. People who support the gay lifestyle are more than aware the position of Christian zealots. Your losing your mind to chastise them isn,t going to do anything except marginalize Christianity in the world. For every block of sinners you chase off, your numbers get smaller and smaller. Being decent to people who disagree with you isn't just Gods word, its also a smart strategy. But by all means, carry on in your rage against your brother. It makes your own sins seem less sinful. And in the end, everything the fundies do is about their own guilt.

Oh, and one more thing. When you accused me of knowing the photo was your wife "or someone you care about" you falsely accused the heck out of me. I tried and tried to explain that seeing a photo ona website in no way guarantees that someone will know who that person is, and you were the one who said you were not a drag queen. I don't know if you have seen many transgendered people, but believe me, there are many who look exactly lime the gender they assume.
Yet you wouldn't accept that from me and continued to harrass me using terrible language. You were and still are wrong. So let's not get too excitex about that falsely accusing business. Hypocrisy is an ugly thing. It makes us unable to see our own.

Finally, (and I'm not talking about younspecifically so don't flip on me again,) all of the need to constantly talk about the evilness of homosexuality comes down to one deeply rooted thing: biblically sanctioned homophobia. The fear of the demons inside us sometimes makes us rail about the demons we see in others. God doesn't call us to use others to assuage our own guilt. He calls us to proclaim the good news and work out our own salvation. If your interpretation of that is to focus on sexual issues instead of the rest of the gospel,then I guess carry on. But it is Christianity you are harming.

Just to be clear, abiding by the Scriptures in which God states that "man lying with man as if he were a woman" and "woman lying with woman ..." is both unnatural and an abomination IS NOT being fearful of people who like to do that very sin. It is NOT "Biblically approved homophobia". It IS recognizing reality.

Next it will be claimed that people who enjoy indulging in inappropriate behavior with animals are not abusing both themselves and the animals they use for their enjoyment. It will be said that anyone who object is just afraid of inappropriate behavior with animals. And the Bible (our instruction manual) is somehow condoning that fear.

AMDG said:

Just to be clear, abiding by the Scriptures in which God states that "man lying with man as if he were a woman" and "woman lying with woman ..." is both unnatural and an abomination IS NOT being fearful of people who like to do that very sin. It is NOT "Biblically approved homophobia". It IS recognizing reality.

Next it will be claimed that people who enjoy indulging in inappropriate behavior with animals are not abusing both themselves and the animals they use for their enjoyment. It will be said that anyone who object is just afraid of inappropriate behavior with animals. And the Bible (our instruction manual) is somehow condoning that fear.

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Fair enough. But often homophobia is often not a fear of other people who are homosexual. Its the fear of what our own sexuality is or may be. Sexuality is not 100% one or the other. Its a position on a line.

If one follows our instruction manual (the Bible) there can be NO question. One God intended for the continuance of the human race and the other is sin. (Even simple biology tells us that--two roosters can't lay an egg and a baby chick can't come of the union of two hens.) Why make things more difficult than they have to be?

Thing is, WE aren't the intolerant ones--we are simply the ones grounded in reality.

Again, fair enough. But I guess it depends on how srtict one is when defining "reality." Lest you call me an atheist, I'm talking about faith vs true knowledge. But that's probably for another thread.

While I am decidedly to the left of my friends Wolseley and LivingWordUnity, I am hardly a leftist. I am a very tolerant person. I generally disagree with the extreme ends of both the left and the right, but I feel that they are undoubtedly free to hold and express whatever their opinion might be.

If by defining toleration you mean that I must agree with what everyone says well, that's not going to happen.

Fantine said:

While I admit that both liberals and conservatives sometimes lack tolerance, liberal intolerance, in my experience, is only of the intolerant.

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This sounds like that statement, "It all depends on what your definition of 'is', is."

Fantine said:

Conservative intolerance, on the other hand, extends to many different demographic groups and many people who exhibit behaviors they don't approve of.

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Very true. If you don't have standards, Fantine, you end up tolerating everything. There are a lot of things that I simply will not tolerate, for various reasons.

Fantine said:

Being intolerant of the intolerant is much more limited than being intolerant of lots of people whose behavior doesn't match your standards. There is quite a bit of truth to the statement, "You are against abortion? Don't have one. Against gay marriage? Don't marry someone of the same sex. Against birth control? Don't practice it. Against premarital sex? Stay chaste."

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Don't want your children exposed to, or indoctrinated in, any of the above? Tough. The liberals demand it, and the children will join the Linkejügend whether you like it or not.

The Twister said:

... "Jesus told His disciples that if the world hates them to remember that it hated Him first. Scripture also tells us that men hate the light, lest their dark deeds be exposed. I know when I share the Gospel with someone who isn't saved that I can expect to be called all sorts of foul names and be ridiculed and falsely accused, but it still stings. I know that when I'm verbally attacked and shunned for speaking of the Light of Jesus Christ, I am to rejoice and be glad. I know that, Jesus said it Himself, but my heart is still heavy with sadness. My heart is heavy with sadness because I know the eternal fate of those who reject Jesus Christ and the salvation that can only come through Him. And despite popular opinion, God does not bless any form of sin, no matter what it is. Some people are fooled into believing that God will not punish them for their sins, because He is loving and forgiving, however, what they forget or choose to ignore is that He is also infinitely holy, righteous and just. He will punish sin wherever it is found and the ultimate punishment for our sins is an eternity in hell.

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Hi Twister:
You essentially answered your own question. The reason is this, of course - (Passages copied and pasted from "Biblehub")

Proverbs 29:27
The righteous detest the dishonest; the wicked detest the upright.

Isaiah 66:5
Hear the word of the LORD, you who tremble at his word: "Your own people who hate you, and exclude you because of my name, have said, 'Let the LORD be glorified, that we may see your joy!' Yet they will be put to shame.

Matthew 24:9
"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

Matthew 24:13
but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Mark 13:13
Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Luke 21:17
Everyone will hate you because of me.

Luke 21:19
Stand firm, and you will win life.

John 15:18
"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.

John 15:19
If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

John 15:21
They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me.

Galatians 6:9
Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Revelation 2:26
To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations--

Rejoice and be exceedingly glad!!!

RKO said:

Just so I know the rules: when I talk about scripture its "twisting." When you talk about it, its exactly what God intends it to mean?

Hope that log in your eye doesnt cause too much pain. By the way, the bible speaks of the sin of drunkenness. Does buying weed illegally and getting high count or do you have God cornered on a technicality? Yes, i just judged you unfairly. My point is, being judged by someone in no position to know is harmful and not really fair. Hence, I'm pointing out the speck in your eye hoping you will see the hypocrisy of railing against others. Thats the difference. People who support the gay lifestyle are more than aware the position of Christian zealots. Your losing your mind to chastise them isn,t going to do anything except marginalize Christianity in the world. For every block of sinners you chase off, your numbers get smaller and smaller. Being decent to people who disagree with you isn't just Gods word, its also a smart strategy. But by all means, carry on in your rage against your brother. It makes your own sins seem less sinful. And in the end, everything the fundies do is about their own guilt.

Oh, and one more thing. When you accused me of knowing the photo was your wife "or someone you care about" you falsely accused the heck out of me. I tried and tried to explain that seeing a photo ona website in no way guarantees that someone will know who that person is, and you were the one who said you were not a drag queen. I don't know if you have seen many transgendered people, but believe me, there are many who look exactly lime the gender they assume.
Yet you wouldn't accept that from me and continued to harrass me using terrible language. You were and still are wrong. So let's not get too excitex about that falsely accusing business. Hypocrisy is an ugly thing. It makes us unable to see our own.

Finally, (and I'm not talking about younspecifically so don't flip on me again,) all of the need to constantly talk about the evilness of homosexuality comes down to one deeply rooted thing: biblically sanctioned homophobia. The fear of the demons inside us sometimes makes us rail about the demons we see in others. God doesn't call us to use others to assuage our own guilt. He calls us to proclaim the good news and work out our own salvation. If your interpretation of that is to focus on sexual issues instead of the rest of the gospel,then I guess carry on. But it is Christianity you are harming.

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Stopped reading at weed. I'm an alcoholic (sober for quite awhile now), and I've always been very open about my disgust for my sin, and I've always sought to stop, through my own willpower and the help of God through prayer. These homosexuals at their big gay pride parades aren't exactly seeking to stop what they're doing; no, rather, they want to get "married". I'm also very open about the fact that, oh about 7 or 8 months ago I committed adultery and kept myself from the Eucharist for half a year because I know it is a sin, I'm disgusted by it, and I didn't want to be guilty of the Lord's Body and Blood. Homosexuals though? Well, they're being enabled in some churches and, once again, almost all of them feel no shame for their sin and happily continue in their lifestyle. Weed has helped my depression, anxiety, social interactions, and (I truly believe this) helped me kick the booze out of my life. I was drinking in self pity as can be seen here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7850570/ . I also documented how LEGAL weed might help other Aspies (I don't condone buying it illegally, but it is legal in many parts of this country and legally medically in my state, I'm just waiting for mine).

Don't compare my sins that I'm clearly disgusted about and have always repented of with homosexuals choosing to continue their lifestyles. Let me grab a bottle of Turkey and some hookers, tell you that you can't judge me, I'll do what I want, and then maybe you would have a point. But I don't do that because I love God. I hate when I fail; I don't seek to marry my sins; in fact, I want a divorce immediately.

Maybe other people's sins help them cope with their issues much as the sin of illegal drug purchasing and using helps you? When is it okay to sin?

MikeK said:

Maybe other people's sins help them cope with their issues much as the sin of illegal drug purchasing and using helps you? When is it okay to sin?

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Where in the good book did God say that I can't use the herb he created, that has been proven to be of great medical use, and I can testify to that? How does a homosexual relationship help anyone? I can clearly show you where in the Bible where it says that it leads to destruction. Are you going to preach the law of these lands to me? It is also legal to get an abortion, so clearly our government isn't the almighty in laws; it's even legal in our Capitol now. My medical doctor is also aware of my marijuana usage, is fully supportive, and also brought up me getting medical marijuana because it's a legitimate medication for me. It's not even close to the same.