Dispensation of the end-time.

Don't understand your last line.

rdclmn7 said:

Paul specifically refers to it as the current reality that the church operates and lives under.
Paul would also refer to the gospel as already having been preached in all the known world.
It amounts to grace, the time of the gentiles and the end-time as all manifestations of the same concept.
By the way, it also tells us that outside of the only use of the word in the bible, dispensationalism has only one application.

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There was the Jewish Age, labeled "the last days", "end of the age", "last times", "end times", etc.

Then there was the Christian Age coming after it, labeled the "age to come", "the unshakeable kingdom", "world without end", etc.

What cleanly divides these two ages, isn't the coming of Jesus nor the death and resurrection of Jesus, and nor even the Day of Pentecost (which was a sign of Jesus' being innaugerated as King, See John 7:39; Acts 2:1-4,30-36,39.)

But the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, see Hebrews 8:13. The end of the Jewish Age officially ended August 10, A.D. 70. This was the Great Event spoken of in the Olivet Discourse, throughout the Epistles, and the Book of Revelation.

April, a.d.70, immediately after the Passover, when Jerusalem was filled with strangers, the siege began. The zealots rejected, with sneering defiance, the repeated proposals of Titus and the prayers of Josephus, who accompanied him as interpreter and mediator; and they struck down every one who spoke of surrender. They made sorties down the valley of the Kedron and tip the mountain, and inflicted great loss oil the Romans. As the difficulties multiplied their courage increased. The crucifixion of hundreds of prisoners (as many as five hundred a day) only enraged them the more. Even the famine which began to rage and sweep away thousands daily, and forced a woman to roast her own child, the cries of mothers and babes, the most pitiable scenes of misery around them, could not move the crazy fanatics. History records no other instance of such obstinate resistance, such desperate bravery and contempt of death. The Jews fought, not only for civil liberty, life, and their native land, but for that which constituted their national pride and glory, and gave their whole history its significance -- for their religion, which, even in this state of horrible degeneracy, infused into them an almost superhuman power of endurance.....

The Destruction of the City and the Temple.

At last, in July, the castle of Antonia was surprised and taken by night. This prepared the way for the destruction of the Temple in which the tragedy culminated. The daily sacrifices ceased July 17th, because the hands were all needed for defence. The last and the bloodiest sacrifice at the altar of burnt offerings was the slaughter of thousands of Jews who had crowded around it.

Titus (according to Josephus) intended at first to save that magnificent work of architecture, as a trophy of victory, and perhaps from some superstitious fear; and when the flames threatened to reach the Holy of Holies he forced his way through flame and smoke, over the dead and dying, to arrest the fire. [546] But the destruction was determined by a higher decree. His own soldiers, roused to madness by the stubborn resistance, and greedy of the golden treasures, could not be restrained from the work of destruction. At first the halls around the temple were set on fire. Then a firebrand was hurled through the golden gate. When the flames arose the Jews raised a hideous yell and tried to put out the fire; while others, clinging with a last convulsive grasp to their Messianic hopes, rested in the declaration of a false prophet, that God in the midst of the conflagration of the Temple would give a signal for the deliverance of his people. The legions vied with each other in feeding the flames, and made the unhappy people feel the full force of their unchained rage. Soon the whole prodigious structure was in a blaze and illuminated the skies. It was burned on the tenth of August, a.d.70, the same day of the year on which, according to tradition, the first temple was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. "No one," says Josephus, "can conceive a louder, more terrible shriek than arose from all sides during the burning of the temple. The shout of victory and the jubilee of the legions sounded through the wailings of the people, now surrounded with fire and sword, upon the mountain, and throughout the city. The echo from all the mountains around, even to Peraea (?), increased the deafening roar. Yet the misery itself was more terrible than this disorder. The hill on which the temple stood was seething hot, and seemed enveloped to its base in one sheet of flame. The blood was larger in quantity than the fire, and those that were slain more in number than those that slew them. The ground was nowhere visible. All was covered with corpses; over these heaps the soldiers pursued the fugitives."

The Romans planted their eagles on the shapeless ruins, over against the eastern gate, offered their sacrifices to them, and proclaimed Titus Imperator with the greatest acclamations of joy. Thus was fulfilled the prophecy concerning the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place.....

The Fate of the Survivors, and the Triumph in Rome.

After a siege of five months the entire city was in the hands of the victors. The number of the Jews slain during the siege, including all those who had crowded into the city from the country, is stated by Josephus at the enormous and probably exaggerated figure of one million and one hundred thousand. Eleven thousand perished from starvation shortly after the close of the siege. Ninety-seven thousand were carried captive and sold into slavery, or sent to the mines, or sacrificed in the gladiatorial shows at Caesarea, Berytus, Antioch, and other cities. The strongest and handsomest men were selected for the triumphal procession in Rome, among them the chief defenders and leaders of the revolt, Simon Bar-Giora and John of Gischala.....


The Jewish War and the Destruction of Jerusalem. A. D. 70

The word was certainly used outside the Bible; it is an ordinary word for management. For ex., an entity or business or household or a city is under someone's management. In the case of the Gospel, there was the tutorial phase of the Law, or 'child-trainer' phase. That one has ended, and this is now the age of the Gospel and Christ and the Spirit. That is how God raises up his people today and guides them into their mission.

Walk over to the Paint Department of a Home Depot. Ask its Manager, or Steward, to mix you a gallon of, say, Hunter Green.

Watch the Paint Mixer DISPENSE a DISPENSATION of Hunter Green into a gallon of white paint.

As you do, note the little window on the Paint Mixer. It reads DISPENSING.

Order another gallon, this time, Pink. Observe all this DISPENSING going.

Note this time that THE DISPENSATION OF Pink is less than THE DISPENSATION OF Hunter Gree.

Note also, that THE DISPENSATION OF Hunter Green took longer than THE DISPENSATION OF Pink to DISPENSE.

One DISPENSATION required more than the other.

Time is the issue, rather, respective FULLNESS, or DUE SEASON is...

On second thought, lets DISPENSE with all this...

In short, never mind every single sense of that found in Luke 12:42... for that matter, the two DISPENSATION described in Hebrews four...

If that does not work, call your Doctor. Tell him or her you'd like to have them DISPENSE their two cents on your state of mind over all this. Tell them that, no, you're not crazy. That, in fact, you are OF FULL AGE. Should he or she have a problem with your response, tell to walk over to the Medical DISPENSARY, and take a chill pill. Remind them said DISPENSATION will take as long as it will to FINISH ITS COURSE... no sooner, no longer.

Should he or she ENTRUST you with A DISPENSATION OF said chill pill, walk over to your mirtor and say to your self A DISPENSATION HAS BEEN COMMITTED UNTO ME....

OK, I'm done DISPENSING this DISPENSATION OF DISPENSATIONS - that's right, we've reached THE FULNESS OF TIMES [plural] this the SEASON to be jolly, falah, la, la,la,la,la,la,la

The age of the Law was a tutorial for the age of Christ. The tutorial is no longer needed. The age of Christ is now here, the fulness of times. There is no excitement in the NT about a Judaistic millenial age coming, but there is the dissolving of this age into the new creation which is already in Christ, for Christ and God are the temple we will be placed in.

Here is the Book in the Bible that should be used to clear up Revelation chapter 14!!! This 5 chapter Book explains why "One like the Son of Man" is shown sitting on a cloud with a sickle in His Hand reaping at the 7th Trumpet. It also explains why an angel is reaping at the same time "One like Jesus" reaps. This Book also explains which city in the Middle East is the Great Wine-press of God mentioned in Revelation 14. This Book also explains that the "Day of His Fierce Anger" lasts for 45 days not 1 day like I have been saying all along. Thank you Father for correcting me on that. The 5 chapter Book that clears up Revelation 14 is: ***LAMENTATIONS***. This book is found in the Old Testament between Jeremiah and Ezekiel. This Book is bad news for Israel because we get a better understanding of just how upset Father is with Israel for ignoring Him and torturing His Son Jesus. Chapter 14 of Revelation is the Great Wheat Harvest that follows the 7th Trumpet Blast. The Wheat and the Tares have been growing together for hundreds of years now. Revelation 14 is specifically concerned with the Wheat and Tares in Israel even though they can be found in every country on Earth. The Tares are the same types of Individuals in Israel that denied that Jesus was and is the Messiah back in those days. They are the majority of Israelis today. The Wheat knows their Shepherd and they are very few in number in Israel today. Only about 2 % of the population. Many of whom are Arab. But the good news for Israelis today is that Father is going to send them Moses & Elijah back to Jerusalem to preach for 3 1/2 years before the "Day of His Fierce Anger "against Israel. In addition to them, Father is also raising up now as we speak 144,000 messianic Jewish young men in Israel that are being taught that the Holy Bible is the complete Word of God. They will teach boldly during the same 3 1/2 years that Moses and Elijah begin their Witness of Jesus. I wouldn't be surprised if the Christian population within Israel jumps from its current state of 2% of the population to 12% of the population by the Time of the 7th Trumpet. The only reason I used 12% there is because of the parable of the “Sower and the Seed” (Matthew 13). (Only 1 of the 8 Seeds that are being cast end up on good ground. {4 seeds cast by Jesus & 4 seeds cast by Satan}. To recap the highlights of the last 7 years of this Age we have: Seals 1 - 4 being the first 3 1/2 years. This is a time of Tribulation for the whole Earth called the "Beginning of Sorrows". This is World War 3 with a worldwide Economic Implosion and a Demand for Oil like you wouldn't believe. Millions of People will die. At the midpoint we have the 10 Nation (Horn) alliance (Peace for Oil) already in place. By the midpoint of the 7 year period Christians will have gotten on everyone's nerves especially in Israel. The 5th Seal will be opened and Christians will be slaughtered everywhere to include Israel. This is followed by the Antichrist sneaking his way into the rebuilt Jewish Temple and declaring to the world via video that he has set up an image in the Jewish Holy of Holies and now is the true time for Jihad. You then have the 6th Seal Heavenly Signs beginning the "Day of the Lord" period. The main part of the Day of the Lord period is called the "Wrath of the Lamb" It lasts from the 7th Seal to the 6th Trumpet. Here Jesus (in heaven) is cracking the whip against Israel & the Middle Eastern nations for the killing of all the Christians. Israel will come under attack by the Antichrist and eventually (Russia by the 6th Trumpet). Picture the time that Jesus went into the Temple and found the way that Jews were treating it. Remember how mad He got and starting cracking the whip. During the first 6 Trumpet Judgments Moses, Elijah, and the 144,000 messianic young preachers will be begging the Christians to flee Israel especially Jerusalem. They will also be explaining to Israel why and by what methods they are being struck by Jesus and Father. Many Jews will convert. Israel remains under attack for 3 1/2 years before they finally break. When Russia joins in around the time of the 6th Trumpet it can't hold out much longer. How much help will America be by that point I do not know. At the blast of the 7th Trumpet, Israel's enemies break through their walls. In Revelation 14 & Lamentations Jesus is shown as "One like the Son of Man" sitting on a {{cloud}}. He is invisible here. This is not His second Coming with all His Glory. This is not the 7th Trumpet Rapture. At Jerusalem's fall Jesus and his Angels gather the souls of the Wheat and the Tares who are killed by the invading army that comes in like a "FLOOD". Jesus said in His Word in the Book of Daniel that from the time of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet (fall of Jerusalem) unto the Wedding Day (Jesus' Coming Visibly) is 45 days. The 7th Trumpet sounds 1,290 days after the Abomination of Desolation is set up in the Temple by the Antichrist. The wedding day (7th Bowl) (Fall of Babylon) is 1,335 days after the Abomination of Desolation. This 45 day period is the 7th Trumpet. It lasts that long. The 7th Trumpet period does not last 1 day. Therefore when some people say that Jesus will return at the 7th Trumpet they are in a sense correct. But, He returns on the last day of the 7th Trumpet period not the first day. This is what Jesus means by the patience of the Saints. (Lamentations 3:25 & Revelation 14:12). You have to realize that it will take 45 days for the Antichrist Army to get all Jews out of Jerusalem. The leaders of his army will decide who they will take back to their various nations as Slaves and who will be executed. Lamentations 1:18 says that the young men and young ladies will be the ones taken away as slaves. It may be that they are given a choice to take the Mark of the Beast and agree to spend the rest of their lives as slaves or die like every else. Revelation 14 says that the Jews will be lined up in a ditch an executed outside of the city of Jerusalem. There dead bodies will be stacked 5 bodies high (the height of horses bridles) in this ditch and this ditch will be as long as 1600 furlongs. This will make the rivers and streams blood red literally. The execution is called the Great Winepress. This will act like a threshing floor where the wheat will be separated from the Tares inside Israel. There are other wine-presses during these days but this is the Great Winepress of God. The entire 3 1/2 year period will be hell for Israel. Not only will they starve to death because they are totally besieged by Russia and the Muslim confederation, but Jesus and Father will be pouring out their wrath against them. Jesus for 6 trumpets and Father for the last 7th Trumpet. Lamentations 3:15 even tells us that the Plague of Wormwood (3rd Trumpet) mentioned in Revelation chapter 8 actually falls on Israel's waters. They are the focus of Father's Wrath up until Jesus returns in Person at the 7th Bowl (Day 1335). Then He remembers His Love for His People and takes 12 hours of that day starting at evening time (Isaiah 17:14) and by morning all of Israel's enemies are defeated. Jesus will reign from Jerusalem over the entire planet for 1,000 years. He will be very Jewish and demand that His people be brought back from all over the world. God Bless Brothers and Sisters

Belly,
what is the 1 line summary of the dense post above?

random person said:

There was the Jewish Age, labeled "the last days", "end of the age", "last times", "end times", etc.
Then there was the Christian Age coming after it, labeled the "age to come", "the unshakeable kingdom", "world without end", etc.
What cleanly divides these two ages, isn't the coming of Jesus nor the death and resurrection of Jesus, and nor even the Day of Pentecost (which was a sign of Jesus' being innaugerated as King, See John 7:39; Acts 2:1-4,30-36,39.)
But the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, see Hebrews 8:13. The end of the Jewish Age officially ended August 10, A.D. 70. This was the Great Event spoken of in the Olivet Discourse, throughout the Epistles, and the Book of Revelation.

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While I fully agree that there was an Old Covenant age using ancient Israel, both its believers and unbelievers to bring the Word of God into the world. I also agree that age officially came to it's end in 70AD which was prophesied in many chapters of Bible prophecy. Furthermore as you say that Kingdom of God was given to believers both Jew and gentile to now propagate.

What disagree with very vehemently is the lack of acknowledgment of the time period I call the age of the Gentiles and it's own end time prophecy. A time period when great and Satanic empires ruled over, oppressied and used genocide against Gods saints throughout the entire world to prevent the kingdom of God from bearing the fruit we now see manifesting in many nations of the world. That time period was specifically marked out in prophecy as the time period of the reign of four consecutive empires Starting with Nebuchadnezzar and ending with the fall of the Roman Empire in 1453 AD.

It wasn't even the fall of that empire that brought the fruit. It was the fact that the very year it fell the first commercial printing press went on line in Europe and within a couple of decades the Bible illegally got into the hands of millions of common men in their own languages. (Plus the discovery of the New world) That is what brought the true revolution that we now see going on that these empires and all other empires were always able to limit. Freedom, righteousness, limited human government, the rule of law, slavery made illegal ect ect. That is some of he fruit that Jesus condemned ancient Israel for not bearing though they could have. That fruit is the way you can see the Government of God's work in the earth. In Jesus's day the only way you could see it was the miracles and the conversion of individuals. Not saying it did not bear any fruit besides that back then. Just saying that that was prevented from bearing all the fruit we see today.

Sorry DanielM, as much as there is a very good overview of history and what the Gospel has accomplished in it, I have never heard anyone refer to the Roman Empire ending then. You must mean some other date or Holy Roman Empire, but even then why not the Diet of Augsburg for the end of the HRE because the German princes then agreed to go alone against Islam, if they had to, without help from the HRE. That would be 1538 or so I think. Late Luther.

Interplanner said:

Sorry DanielM, as much as there is a very good overview of history and what the Gospel has accomplished in it, I have never heard anyone refer to the Roman Empire ending then. You must mean some other date or Holy Roman Empire, but even then why not the Diet of Augsburg for the end of the HRE because the German princes then agreed to go alone against Islam, if they had to, without help from the HRE. That would be 1538 or so I think. Late Luther.

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We have already talked about this and I supplied you links. The last Holy Roman Emperor abdicated in 1806. The Holy Roman empire might be construed by some to be a "revised" Roman Empire but that is just not accurate.

If you just enter these words "Roman Empire 1453 AD " you'll get dozens of articles by "real" historians that say the same. Here is the thing. I have read many that say while it was once popular to date the end of the empire to the fall of the western portion. Academia is now swinging back in the other direction again. Why would it swing away from it in the first place? My theory? Progressives muddying the waters when the Bible was accepted history in the nations universities. They actively went about to discredit its prophecies. That was but one tactic. To date the end of the Roman empire when it did not end. Not even close. Fast forward to today when academia is completely ignorant of the Bible. They have no reason to deny the obvious anymore. that the Roman empire ended in 1453 AD cause they have no idea of its relation to Bible prophecy. Bible prophecy is no longer something they have to contend with in the class room. So... they research history the same way I do and come to the same conclusions for obvious reasons. Reasons so obvious that I should not have to repeat them. Your on the catching up side I'm afraid on this. The fact that it explains prophecy precisely, if you could see it, should thrill your spirit.

So what happened when you went to fight this out with Interpreter. It sounds just as arbitrary as his.

What thread was the link, I'll try to get to it. Or just repost it.

Daniel Martinovich said:

While I fully agree that there was an Old Covenant age using ancient Israel, both its believers and unbelievers to bring the Word of God into the world. I also agree that age officially came to it's end in 70AD which was prophesied in many chapters of Bible prophecy. Furthermore as you say that Kingdom of God was given to believers both Jew and gentile to now propagate.

What disagree with very vehemently is the lack of acknowledgment of the time period I call the age of the Gentiles and it's own end time prophecy. A time period when great and Satanic empires ruled over, oppressied and used genocide against Gods saints throughout the entire world to prevent the kingdom of God from bearing the fruit we now see manifesting in many nations of the world. That time period was specifically marked out in prophecy as the time period of the reign of four consecutive empires Starting with Nebuchadnezzar and ending with the fall of the Roman Empire in 1453 AD.

It wasn't even the fall of that empire that brought the fruit. It was the fact that the very year it fell the first commercial printing press went on line in Europe and within a couple of decades the Bible illegally got into the hands of millions of common men in their own languages. (Plus the discovery of the New world) That is what brought the true revolution that we now see going on that these empires and all other empires were always able to limit. Freedom, righteousness, limited human government, the rule of law, slavery made illegal ect ect. That is some of he fruit that Jesus condemned ancient Israel for not bearing though they could have. That fruit is the way you can see the Government of God's work in the earth. In Jesus's day the only way you could see it was the miracles and the conversion of individuals. Not saying it did not bear any fruit besides that back then. Just saying that that was prevented from bearing all the fruit we see today.

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Today is the church age which has no end (Eph. 3:21).

Today is the kingdom of the Messiah, it was raised during the Roman Empire and will never end (Dan. 2:44; Luke 1:31-33).

The church age and the kingdom of the Messiah are one and the same.

The kingdom of the Messiah is here, and now, represented both in heaven and in the church.

So DanielM,
does the printing press event almost have the stature of the day of Pentecost?

Interplanner said:

So DanielM,
does the printing press event almost have the stature of the day of Pentecost?

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You don't think it is the least bit amazing that the advent of the vehicle that got the Word of God into the hands of common men in their own languages happened the exact time the Roman empire ended? You can't accept the fact that the Word of God getting into the hands of millions of common people in their own languages in northern Europe was the dynamic that caused the powers that be for the first time to loose their literal and spiritual war they had been waging against the saints for 1400 years? Then I say. You don't know the power of the Word of God. We are born from above not just by the spirit of God but also by the Word of God.