Who will be in the land during Daniel's seventieth week?

Gideon,
how do you mean? Why shouldn't the 70th be right after the 69th? Do you have a sort of insider knowledge why there should be a gap?

Thats what Im saying. The 70th week was right after the 69th week. So, the people living in the land were the same people presumably - minus a few old timers.

Ah, yes, good.

Gideon said:

Thats what Im saying. The 70th week was right after the 69th week. So, the people living in the land were the same people presumably - minus a few old timers.

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I am amazed at how this false interpretation, of what is plainly written in scripture, has spread throughout the modern Church.

The interpretation is "antichrist" because it has taken a covenant confirmed by Christ and changed it into a treaty broken by the antichrist. "Antichrist" has been substituted for Christ.



The question of the thread should have been...


"Who was in the land during Daniel's seventieth week?

BABerean2 said:

... it has taken a covenant confirmed by Christ and changed it into a treaty broken by the antichrist ...

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Quite shocking when you think of it that way. But you are right. The other thing is that it steals verse 24 from us. This verse is, I believe, the most profound description of Christ's atonement in the entire Bible. To summarise, the Cross of Christ achieved these things:

a couple notes:
you have to know imputed righteousness really well to know what Daniel is saying about sin, etc. Just like Rom 3!
2, the definition of the word sealed about prophecy here can be confirmed. I've forgot the passage that illustrates this but it is also by Daniel. Of course, it is huge difference. It doesn't mean it was hidden but says that it will all take place in that week.

The key events of Daniel's 70 weeks are found in the summary of Dan. 9:24.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


One of the key events would be the anointing of the Messiah, by John the Baptist. Christ stated that John was the transition between the OT and the NT.


Luk_16:16The law and the prophetswereuntil John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


Since the anointing is a pivotal event based on the words of Gabriel and the ministry of John the Baptist is a transition point according to Christ, would it not be logical that Christ's baptism would be in the timeline of Daniel's 70 weeks?

He was cut off "after" the 69 weeks. After a week, is into the next week, which is part of the 70th week.

Based on the textual emphasis of the anointing, it would seem to be that the 70th week began at the baptism of Christ.


We know His ministry was approximately 3 1/2 years long, which is 1/2 week.

Christ confirmed a covenant(testament) with many.
The same basic phrase is used in the verse below.

Mat 26:28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


The veil in the temple was torn showing the sealing or completion of the final perfect sacrifice.

Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.


The abomination of desolation is revealed by parallel scripture within the Gospels.

The Abomination of Desolation in the Gospels:​

Dan 9:27

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. ​

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Mat 23:38​

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

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Parallel Passages...​

Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Mat 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

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Mar 13:14​

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

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Luk 21:20​

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21
Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

.................................................................................................................​

The coming destruction of Jerusalem...​

Luk 21:22​

For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Luk 21:23​

But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Luk 21:24​

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

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Luk 23:28​

But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

Luk 23:29​

For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessedarethe barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.

Luk 23:30​

Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.

Luk 23:31​

For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?

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Daniel's 70 weeks have been completed, based on a plain, literal reading of God's Word.​

.​

Biblewriter said:

The original Hebrew text, which we have, trumps any ancient translation.

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Which "original" Hebrew text are you referring to, Biblewriter?




Just for curiosity, Biblewriter, do you think we should be using the same translation of the Old Testament that Christ and the Apostles used?
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Biblewriter said:

And we leave the spiritulization to others, we simply believe what the scriptures say.

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Of course you do.
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Biblewriter said:

Three things were to happen after the sixty-two weeks, which, coming after the initial seven weeks, makes sixty nine weeks.

Messiah was to be cut off.

The city and the sanctuary were to be destroyed.

And a one week covenant was to be made.

The first two of these most definately did not take place withing a single week (of years.) And the one week covenant, being the only mention of a seventieth week, has to be the seventiweth week.

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That is completely without logic. Christ arrived at the end of 69 weeks, and he ministered for 3.5 years or one-half week. At that time he was cut off out of the land of the living, which places the time-line half-way through the 70th week. Christ confirmed the covenant for the entire 70th week: half while living, and half via his disciples (Matt 10:5-6; 15:24, 10:40; Acts 3:25; Rom 15:8). The 70th week was completed when the Gentiles were allowed into the commonwealth of Israel (Acts 10.)

The time allotted for the desolation of the city and sanctuary was decreed separately (Dan 9:26,) and was therefore NOT part of the 70 weeks decreed in Dan 9:24.
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Biblewriter said:

Thus we see that the suppsedly imagined gap was actually in the text from the very beginning. That is why the most ancient Christian commentaries we have spoke of it as future.

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So, you are relying on the "most ancient" commentaries? Are those the ones that claim the Church is the new Israel?

Have you ever read the book, "Frauds and Follies of the Early Christian Fathers"?

"Frauds and Follies of the Fathers - Joseph Mazzini Wheeler - Google Books

Here is the Book in the Bible that should be used to clear up Revelation chapter 14!!! This 5 chapter Book explains why "One like the Son of Man" is shown sitting on a cloud with a sickle in His Hand reaping at the 7th Trumpet. It also explains why an angel is reaping at the same time "One like Jesus" reaps. This Book also explains which city in the Middle East is the Great Wine-press of God mentioned in Revelation 14. This Book also explains that the "Day of His Fierce Anger" lasts for 45 days not 1 day like I have been saying all along. Thank you Father for correcting me on that. The 5 chapter Book that clears up Revelation 14 is: ***LAMENTATIONS***. This book is found in the Old Testament between Jeremiah and Ezekiel. This Book is bad news for Israel because we get a better understanding of just how upset Father is with Israel for ignoring Him and torturing His Son Jesus. Chapter 14 of Revelation is the Great Wheat Harvest that follows the 7th Trumpet Blast. The Wheat and the Tares have been growing together for hundreds of years now. Revelation 14 is specifically concerned with the Wheat and Tares in Israel even though they can be found in every country on Earth. The Tares are the same types of Individuals in Israel that denied that Jesus was and is the Messiah back in those days. They are the majority of Israelis today. The Wheat knows their Shepherd and they are very few in number in Israel today. Only about 2 % of the population. Many of whom are Arab. But the good news for Israelis today is that Father is going to send them Moses & Elijah back to Jerusalem to preach for 3 1/2 years before the "Day of His Fierce Anger "against Israel. In addition to them, Father is also raising up now as we speak 144,000 messianic Jewish young men in Israel that are being taught that the Holy Bible is the complete Word of God. They will teach boldly during the same 3 1/2 years that Moses and Elijah begin their Witness of Jesus. I wouldn't be surprised if the Christian population within Israel jumps from its current state of 2% of the population to 12% of the population by the Time of the 7th Trumpet. The only reason I used 12% there is because of the parable of the “Sower and the Seed” (Matthew 13). (Only 1 of the 8 Seeds that are being cast end up on good ground. {4 seeds cast by Jesus & 4 seeds cast by Satan}. To recap the highlights of the last 7 years of this Age we have: Seals 1 - 4 being the first 3 1/2 years. This is a time of Tribulation for the whole Earth called the "Beginning of Sorrows". This is World War 3 with a worldwide Economic Implosion and a Demand for Oil like you wouldn't believe. Millions of People will die. At the midpoint we have the 10 Nation (Horn) alliance (Peace for Oil) already in place. By the midpoint of the 7 year period Christians will have gotten on everyone's nerves especially in Israel. The 5th Seal will be opened and Christians will be slaughtered everywhere to include Israel. This is followed by the Antichrist sneaking his way into the rebuilt Jewish Temple and declaring to the world via video that he has set up an image in the Jewish Holy of Holies and now is the true time for Jihad. You then have the 6th Seal Heavenly Signs beginning the "Day of the Lord" period. The main part of the Day of the Lord period is called the "Wrath of the Lamb" It lasts from the 7th Seal to the 6th Trumpet. Here Jesus (in heaven) is cracking the whip against Israel & the Middle Eastern nations for the killing of all the Christians. Israel will come under attack by the Antichrist and eventually (Russia by the 6th Trumpet). Picture the time that Jesus went into the Temple and found the way that Jews were treating it. Remember how mad He got and starting cracking the whip. During the first 6 Trumpet Judgments Moses, Elijah, and the 144,000 messianic young preachers will be begging the Christians to flee Israel especially Jerusalem. They will also be explaining to Israel why and by what methods they are being struck by Jesus and Father. Many Jews will convert. Israel remains under attack for 3 1/2 years before they finally break. When Russia joins in around the time of the 6th Trumpet it can't hold out much longer. How much help will America be by that point I do not know. At the blast of the 7th Trumpet, Israel's enemies break through their walls. In Revelation 14 & Lamentations Jesus is shown as "One like the Son of Man" sitting on a {{cloud}}. He is invisible here. This is not His second Coming with all His Glory. This is not the 7th Trumpet Rapture. At Jerusalem's fall Jesus and his Angels gather the souls of the Wheat and the Tares who are killed by the invading army that comes in like a "FLOOD". Jesus said in His Word in the Book of Daniel that from the time of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet (fall of Jerusalem) unto the Wedding Day (Jesus' Coming Visibly) is 45 days. The 7th Trumpet sounds 1,290 days after the Abomination of Desolation is set up in the Temple by the Antichrist. The wedding day (7th Bowl) (Fall of Babylon) is 1,335 days after the Abomination of Desolation. This 45 day period is the 7th Trumpet. It lasts that long. The 7th Trumpet period does not last 1 day. Therefore when some people say that Jesus will return at the 7th Trumpet they are in a sense correct. But, He returns on the last day of the 7th Trumpet period not the first day. This is what Jesus means by the patience of the Saints. (Lamentations 3:25 & Revelation 14:12). You have to realize that it will take 45 days for the Antichrist Army to get all Jews out of Jerusalem. The leaders of his army will decide who they will take back to their various nations as Slaves and who will be executed. Lamentations 1:18 says that the young men and young ladies will be the ones taken away as slaves. It may be that they are given a choice to take the Mark of the Beast and agree to spend the rest of their lives as slaves or die like every else. Revelation 14 says that the Jews will be lined up in a ditch an executed outside of the city of Jerusalem. There dead bodies will be stacked 5 bodies high (the height of horses bridles) in this ditch and this ditch will be as long as 1600 furlongs. This will make the rivers and streams blood red literally. The execution is called the Great Winepress. This will act like a threshing floor where the wheat will be separated from the Tares inside Israel. There are other wine-presses during these days but this is the Great Winepress of God. The entire 3 1/2 year period will be hell for Israel. Not only will they starve to death because they are totally besieged by Russia and the Muslim confederation, but Jesus and Father will be pouring out their wrath against them. Jesus for 6 trumpets and Father for the last 7th Trumpet. Lamentations 3:15 even tells us that the Plague of Wormwood (3rd Trumpet) mentioned in Revelation chapter 8 actually falls on Israel's waters. They are the focus of Father's Wrath up until Jesus returns in Person at the 7th Bowl (Day 1335). Then He remembers His Love for His People and takes 12 hours of that day starting at evening time (Isaiah 17:14) and by morning all of Israel's enemies are defeated. Jesus will reign from Jerusalem over the entire planet for 1,000 years. He will be very Jewish and demand that His people be brought back from all over the world. God Bless Brothers and Sisters

Joh 5:28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.



Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.





1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.





2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;





Tit_1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.



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Rev20,
BW means authors about 100 years later. I think the main one is Irenaeus, and the quotes sound very modern. BW takes their "side" but he has always been honest about how much later they are, and that they are just ECF after all. He doesn't want people in the 20th century saying futurism just popped in out of nowwhere.

A Very Simple Timeline
26AD
John the Baptist baptized Jesus in the fall and announced him as Israel's Messiah (John 1:29-42), which concluded week 69 and began week 70 of Daniel's 70 weeks that some in Israel had been calculating for obvious reasons (Luke 2:25,38; 3:15; 23:51; 24:21).
30AD
Jesus laid down His life in the spring, at Passover, 3½ years after His baptism, in the midst of Daniel's 70th week, rose from the dead, and ascended gloriously to His throne in heaven.
30AD
The apostles received great power at Pentecost and took the gospel to Jews and then Gentiles.
33AD
The main confirming of the covenant with Jews came to an end, as Daniel's 70th week ended. Some identify this event with the stoning of Stephen, but there is insufficient evidence.
66AD
The gospel had been preached in all the world to every creature by this time, which was the final condition Jesus had determined before the Romans could come and destroy the Jews.
66AD
Sign and revelatory gifts ended, as the New Testament scripture had been written and collated.
66AD
The Jews became more and more rebellious and revolted against Caesar and Roman authority.
66AD
Cestius Gallus brought the Twelfth Legion from Antioch in November, surrounded the city, and could have taken it easily, but left for no reason and at great loss! This enflamed the Jewish rebellion with false hope, and it angered Rome greatly to totally destroy the Jews! But it began the 1290 and 1335 days prophesied by Daniel leading up to the Jews' scattering (Dan 12:1-13).
67AD
Nero appoints Vespasian in charge of Judea, who brings several legions and begins a slow and methodical campaign of destruction of the Jews from city to city that lasts for 2 years.
70AD
Believers in the city and country, knowing the warnings, and having witnessed Cestius's surrounding of Jerusalem, left for the mountains before Titus set his seige (Luke 21:20-22).
70AD
Titus, son of Emperor Vespasian and prince of Rome, united four Roman legions and destroyed the city of Jerusalem and its temple in August after a five-month siege. This ended the 1290 and 1335 days prophesied by Daniel leading up to the Jews' scattering (Dan 12:1-13).
70AD
The siege was bad enough for women to eat their children (See Josephus). But the Jews killed more themselves due to demonical factions that had no mercy for life, the city, or the temple.
70AD
The total number of dead was over 1.1 million, for Titus besieged the city at Passover, when it was filled with visitors for worship; and there were only 97,000 captives taken for slaves.
70AD
No individual city had ever endured such pain. World War II was modest in comparison. For example, Hiroshima only lost around 100,000, most of them dying instantly and painlessly.
70AD
Captives over 17 not taken to Rome for public display were carried by ship to Egypt as slaves, where they were sold very cheaply due to the supply far exceeding the demand (Deut 28:68).
70AD
Titus ordered the city dug up, until it appeared to have never been inhabited; and Terentius Rufus, commander of the Tenth Legion, plowed Mount Zion like a farmer's field (Micah 3:12).
73AD
The fortress of Masada was besieged by Rome and 1000 final Jewish rebels committed suicide. Note: For more details, chronological tables, and timelines, see the links at the bottom of this document.


From an early Baptist source Let God Be True.com
http://www.letgodbetrue.com/sermons/prophecy/70ad/sermon.php?gclid=CMGes8iBj8ICFaVDMgodG2sANQ#witness11

Biblewriter said:

I don't even completely "take their side." I see many errors in what they said. But you are entirely correct that my reason for quoting them is not to pretend that their antiquity makes them authoritative. It is only to conclusively prove that futurism and pre-millennialism, and even many of the concepts of dispensationalism, are indeed the oldest Christian interpretations of Bible prophecy we know about, not just a nineteenth century invention.

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Dispensationalism is a 19th century creation.

Rev20 said:

Dispensationalism is a 19th century creation.

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He is well aware of the connection between Lacunza, Irving, and Darby, which produced modern Dispensationalism and the nonsense that is taught today in most evangelical churches.

He also knows that Charles Spurgeon never accepted Darby's doctrine.




However, he has put so much time and effort into writing about Dispensational Theology that he cannot bring himself to admit it.

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and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, ALL these things shall be finished. Daniel 12:7

Above is the deadline for the 70th week of Daniel.

When was the power of the holy people scattered? A.D. 70!

I think you're going to replicate Judaistic doctrines any time you warm up to the Law too much, and the 19th century sure did. British Adventism (which was a way of practicing a lot of the law) was much closer to D'ism than American.

I think BW's right that futurist doctrines were spelled out back there in those ECF's but not for the reasons that BW does; I don't think anyone really knew what to do with the momentum of literal expectation that is in prophecy. Even today, it is very hard for people to let Acts 13 or Rom 4, 9, Eph 2-3 actually shape things. Come on, the detractors say, the OT has to be treated more dignified than that! To find imaginative ways for the same prophecies to be fulfilled is seen as fraud or incompetence.

So the literalness had a alot of momentum; it powered Judaism; it still does. In the 19th century, affluent Jews in northern Europe believed that unless they were in the land they could not realize their destiny. That's literalism. So much for what the apostles did and said!

At least BW repeats that those ECFs were just human and speaking on their own. He just happens to think they had the best take. Not.