Are you prejudice towards a certain Christian group?

Without looking it up, did you know who the pastor of the second largest church is?

  • Yes

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Chris12

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Anyone who tries to sell or profit from God's words is not from God.

Jesus said - man cannot serve two masters; God and mammon (wealth) - so anyone who is profiting from God's words is not of God.

(Matthew 6:24) No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

One who would do such a thing chose his master, and his master is not mine.

I would not care to hear about God's word from an atheist, nor would I care to hear God's words from someone serving a different God (wealth). I prefer God's word from the people of God - they are the only ones we can learn from. They are not many - they are few.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Well what is the need for limos and private jets? Its the celebrity treatment. These people don't want to ride in passenger jets like normal people, or ride in ordinary transportation. If anything, Im not Catholic but I love how Pope Francis is laying down the law on priests and higher ups in the Catholic hierarchy who live in mansions and act like they too deserve celebrity treatment. Despite what some may think, such actions upset Jesus
 
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Frogster

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An ISP is not a need. I have never heard of anyone dying of lack of an ISP. An ISP is a luxury, and if an itinerant preacher doesn't need transportation, there is certainly no justification for something as excessive as an ISP. What did Jesus say about the poor, and luxurious items to his treasurer?

I don't like preachers who have more money than they will ever be able to spend and who won't lift a finger to help the poor, but the interesting thing is that those ones aren't the ones being criticized for it. I know of one who said on his radio broadcast that he isn't a soup kitchen, and he didn't mean that he has other ways that he helps the poor, he meant that he can't be bothered. I've never seen him mentioned on this board.

The OP, and the truth are that we are playing into the hands of the preachers of another gospel. We are shooting our own, over something superficial and that doesn't matter, and ignoring what does matter. God owns everything. A private jet does not diminish His treasury a single bit. If the cessationists can get us to join their chorus of false accusations against Pentecostal and Charismatic preachers while ignoring their con artists who help no one, it gives them credibility that their mostly humanist theology lacks.

I actually admire preachers who understand their audience and don't spend all of their time preaching salvation to the saved.

Red above, No the ones getting shot are the people who have their money extracted, by preachers who have more than they do, while the preachers twist text, and use fear and guilt to get the money and burden people. Paul did not want to burden the people, text ready if you want proof.

There are old people on fixed incomes, and young families on a fixed budget, who do not need to give to the rich preachers.
 
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jiminpa

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Actually an ISP is a need for most people in todays society. For work or school... so again I do not see how comparing someone buying a computer compares to a preacher buying a jet and then on top those who ask for donations to spruce it up a bit.
My kids cyberschool, and I don't have an ISP at the moment. It is inconvenient, but it is doable. For someone who travels as their ministry having the ability to get themselves and their support team to the next event on time is very important, and flying commercial may be too unreliable and cost ineffective, I don't know, I'm not anyone's accountant. For someone who works online having Internet is important, for most of us it is not as important as we think. I'm old enough to remember life without a PC, let alone the Internet. Neither is a true necessity for most of us. So for us to continuously gossip about people we know pretty much nothing about is not good, especially when we aren't giving as much of what we have as they are of what they have. Some here admit that 10% is more than they are willing to let go of consistently, but most of us can spend money on own own comfort, yet want to criticize those who defer entire income sources to ministry as greedy. And again, it is extremely one-sided. We criticize only the Charismatic and Pentecostals who make a lot of money, (most of whom give a lot too), but the cessationists, (many of whom sell tickets to blasphemy festivals), are above examination, and we here on this forum seem pretty elated to side with the blasphemers against those who just don't blow trumpets over their giving.

I'd say we pretty much proved the OP.

And I am disagreeing with some people I have a great deal of respect for on this one.
 
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lismore

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I don't have a clue as to what you re referring to. I can only go by what the man says he believes on his sight. It's only the second time I ever went there.

What I'm referring to is this, have you never met a politician? They put one thing on their website and manifesto then do another. The website says what you said it says, ok. The man himself when away from his website says something different. He says you don't need Jesus to be saved. So either his website is inaccurate or he says things he doesn't believe. Either way I'd be wary.

But the people I'm referring to are complaining about his wealth - not stance on salvation - check out the OP again.

A lot of the wealth comes from his teaching. His teaching (on at least one occasion) had been shown to be false. There's the link for you.

God Bless:)
 
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whatfor

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Yes, he lost the plot didn't he

As he said later All is vanity

Fear God-win souls

Note: many ministries stray when the dollars roll in sadly

Sadly I was looking on the bright side but as you pointed out he lost the plot too.
 
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Andrea411

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Andrea, ponder for a minute. Jesus was a poor man and had no place of his own to lay his head. He who owned the universe chose to live a common life. What does that say about his gospel? To me, it makes me value Him even more and gives more power to His truth.

It is not that Jesus wants us poor. He wants us to share so that he who has little has no lack, and he who has much has nothing left over. What a concept. :)

As to ministries needing money to operate, why is this? Are we not told to ask and receive that our joy may be full? (Ask God not ask man) Are we not instructed to tell no man that we need anything, but to tell God our needs in secret. Then He will reward us openly.

I do not know if you are aware of a man called George Meuller. He was led to open an orphanage and never ask for funds...ever. If asked what he needed, he was to say that God is bountifully supplying. He relied totally on faith that God meant what he said and could be trusted. Near the end of his life, he was caring for 800 children. One morning, there was no food for breakfast and he excitedly awoke the children, telling them they were about to witness a miracle. Soon a wagon pulled up loaded ith bread. A wmen said she was prayng and god told her to bring it. Immediately thereafter, a milk wagon broke a wheel outside the orphanage. The dairyman told Mr. Meuller that his milk would spoil so he gave it to the children. O Lord, I want that type of faith! That is how faith is to work. How very far we are from such a walk. I pray my own life begins to mimic such an utter complete trust. God is our provider, not those who are battered with pleas and a "free copy" of the minister's latest teaching for giving. I pray we are turned back in these last days to the purity of the gospel.

I hope all is well with you.

Blessings,

Gideon
Hi Gid, I suppose the question then becomes "does Jesus use the media to spread His gospel" bc if He does , then it does take a lot of money. That orphanage you spoke of still needs and gets the money it requires to run.
It would be nice if everyday were the loaves and fishes day... and I have heard testimony that occurs even today.
But I think the Lord uses satellites, computers or whatever else is available to spread the word. Prophesying that the whole world would see the two witnesses die and come to life in the end times and many other things that were unknown at the time... we know the Lord knew what was available to Him.
The Lord showed me years ago that He used what was at hand and sometimes it would be people trying to make a profit from the gospel. What was that to me? So I have no doubt the Lord uses these people. I still have reservations about them.
I don't buy lottery tickets but I have a little game I play once in awhile (its more fun if you buy a ticket) its what would I do with all that money.... I still end up quite rich, even though I imagine I'd give at least 50% or more away.
Until we are in their shoes, I suppose it isn't fair to judge them. There is little good that comes from that activity... and maybe more harm.
Unless we are in a position to change circumstances there is little value in judging harshly those that are actually spreading the gospel.
I could not like '40 million dollar Joe' but he will still have spread the gospel much further than I ever will. How much is one soul worth?? One eternity?? One who goes on to spread the gospel to their family, friends and maybe become a Billy Graham... we don't know the end from the beginning and God does. I'm glad I'm not in charge...

God bless, may the Lord richly bless you and yours, andrea
 
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Chris12

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Hi Gid, I suppose the question then becomes "does Jesus use the media to spread His gospel" bc if He does , then it does take a lot of money. That orphanage you spoke of still needs and gets the money it requires to run.
It would be nice if everyday were the loaves and fishes day... and I have heard testimony that occurs even today.
But I think the Lord uses satellites, computers or whatever else is available to spread the word. Prophesying that the whole world would see the two witnesses die and come to life in the end times and many other things that were unknown at the time... we know the Lord knew what was available to Him.
The Lord showed me years ago that He used what was at hand and sometimes it would be people trying to make a profit from the gospel. What was that to me? So I have no doubt the Lord uses these people. I still have reservations about them.
I don't buy lottery tickets but I have a little game I play once in awhile (its more fun if you buy a ticket) its what would I do with all that money.... I still end up quite rich, even though I imagine I'd give at least 50% or more away.
Until we are in their shoes, I suppose it isn't fair to judge them. There is little good that comes from that activity... and maybe more harm.
Unless we are in a position to change circumstances there is little value in judging harshly those that are actually spreading the gospel.
I could not like '40 million dollar Joe' but he will still have spread the gospel much further than I ever will. How much is one soul worth?? One eternity?? One who goes on to spread the gospel to their family, friends and maybe become a Billy Graham... we don't know the end from the beginning and God does. I'm glad I'm not in charge...

God bless, may the Lord richly bless you and yours, andrea


Thats funny because I don't think 40 million dollar Joe is spreading any gospel. He is begging cash from anyone and everyone, using the name of God to do it...

and people like me, are led to Christ through dreams and visions.

I'm with both the bible, which says that man cannot serve two masters, God and wealth - he will love and one and hate the other, or hate the one and love the other, but two he will not serve.., and with Gideon, who says God will supply our need without need of asking.

I was led to Christ through dreams and visions. He wanted me to know HIM, and led me to Himself. Not a rich man begging a man's wealth... but Christ Himself.

If you noted in the story... the orphanage required funds to operate too. The difference, is one knew God would supply, and didn't get on television/internet and beg, or tell people all their prayers would be answered if they just emptied out their checking account - essentially telling people you can purchase heaven.

Heaven is not for sale - even if there are many trying to sell it.
 
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hislegacy

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Half the time its not the gospel though Is it?

No mention of the cross,denying of self,helping the poor, loving others before ourselves etc

It's more like I need more airtime..put in the pot please

A pathetic substitute gospel.

How do you know? How many of any of their books have you read? How many times have you sat under any of these individuals teaching or preaching?

Have you looked into any of them? What are they doing with their millions? Some walk the streets and share with dozens, perhaps hundreds if they are lucky, others hold crusades and motive thousands to reaching the lost.

Some use their pocket money to help a person in need, others use millions in feeding programs around the world.

Are either one greater or lesser in the eyes of God? No.

The difficulty is some people complete blundess to the missions of God on the earth that needs both to accomplish His plan.
 
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hislegacy

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?....spiritual dim wits sad to say.

There's your true heart towards your brothers and sisters in Christ. And the difference between you and these ministers. Example, I've never heard Joel call anyone a spiritual dim wit.

Out of the abundance of the heart..
 
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murjahel

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Jesus called people names.

And He warned us of believing we have the ability to know who deserves to be called names...

Matthew 5:22 (KJV)
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, (worthless one) shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Romans 14:4 (KJV)
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
 
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hislegacy

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I've heard him avoid saying Jesus was the only way into Heaven, which is no less worse an offense.

And what about the other 10 I've shown who are just as wealthy, and have 20.000 plus member churches.

Why is Joel the only one ever spoken of?

You are making my point. It's only one or two, while there are others not even spoken of.

Why don't you speak of Andy Stanley and the issue that made him turn his back on his own father? Or the 15,000 square foot home he lives in?

What about th others who live in country club, gated communities, who spend more on a pair of shoes than I did on my car? Why is it only one or two and the rest are ignored?
 
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gideons300

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How do you know? How many of any of their books have you read? How many times have you sat under any of these individuals teaching or preaching?

Have you looked into any of them? What are they doing with their millions? Some walk the streets and share with dozens, perhaps hundreds if they are lucky, others hold crusades and motive thousands to reaching the lost.

Some use their pocket money to help a person in need, others use millions in feeding programs around the world.

Are either one greater or lesser in the eyes of God? No.

The difficulty is some people complete blundess to the missions of God on the earth that needs both to accomplish His plan.

If a man using the pulpit to raise money for the kingdom, and then keeps half of it, and makes much of how much he does with the other half, how much different is this from Ananias and Saphira?

We are seeing the fulfilling of scriptures before our very eyes, and some use God like a magic genie's lamp, supposing that gain is godliness. We have been clearly warned, but as in the days of the prophets, "...and my people love it so."

When the bottom falls out, and do not for a minute think it will not, hoarded riches will do nothing but be testimony against them. Lear jets while people starve? That is not love. It is wolves in sheep's clothing fleecing the sheep.

Those that would be rich fall into a snare. God's word, not my opinion. Trying to defend them is like spitting in the face of the one who took the lowest place. These men have their reward, and the poor will receive theirs later. The scriptures are abundantly clear. Some just refuse to hear the wornings tht are amply provided by our God.

I wonder, those believers who died being fed to lions with their families, those burned alive to light up the courtyard for Nero, were they prospering according to the will of God? Indeed they were.

Blessings,

Gideon
 
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hislegacy

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Why is a man who sees dolls coming to life, pulls amimal parts out of people, sees some infants as demons a true man of God

And a man who has raised up countless thousands of people, who funds feeding programs, missions and out reaches on a global level, who takes no salary from the ministry a bad guy?

But there are at least 10 others at the same level, who are taking salaries from their ministry and they are ignored?

Am I the only one seeing this?
 
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