Women and Religion

Yeah! Women are regarded very highly in many forms of paganism and even higher than men in several branches that I know of. Plus the pagan community is much more often very open to gender equality. I appreciate that quite a lot!

elephunky said:

Question - does your religion or faith path hold women in the same kind of view as islam and christianity (back seat roles) or are women more empowered and on equal playing field with men?

Click to expand...

Totally equal. 100%

.

Since I'm bit unclear what my religion is, I think I should phrase it "my beliefs".

I think its all about how deep connection someone has with divine, and history has it that gender seems to play no role in it. There have been great mystics of both genders.

I don't consider myself dogmatically feminist tho, what I believe now is mere conclusion of what I've witnessed and studied.

Since my "religion" currently has one member, it's probably bit pointless to go into traditional gender roles in my religion.

elephunky said:

Question - does your religion or faith path hold women in the same kind of view as islam and christianity (back seat roles) or are women more empowered and on equal playing field with men?

Click to expand...

I don't know how Islaam is being lumped in with Christianity. Islaam gave rights to women that much of the Christian world did not have until pretty recently (just a century or two ago for some things).

We've always had the right to divorce, the right to property, inheritance, to fight in battles, to teach, to question, to learn, to write. One of our first & best scholars was a woman ('Aishah may Allaah be pleased with her). One of the first martyrs was a woman (Sumayyah may Allaah be pleased with her). The Prophet's first wife was a businesswoman (Khadijah may Allaah be pleased with her).

As for being completely equal in all things, then no, that's not the case for either men or women in Islaam:

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah) told us that the one most deserving of our good manners/treatment are our mothers. When asked, "Then who?" He replied, "Your mother." He was again asked, "Then who?" He said, "Your mother." When he was asked, "Then who?" again, the Prophet replied, "Your father."

We do have equal reward for good deeds, though: Whoever does righteousness, whether male or female, while he is a believer - We will surely cause him to live a good life, and We will surely give them their reward [in the Hereafter] according to the best of what they used to do. (Surah an-Nahl 16:97)

I don't love being a Muslimah for nothing!

I consider women superior for two reasons. They carry the child, 2nd, they are more emotional. These two aspects I feel make them superior to men.

AskTheFamily said:

I consider women superior for two reasons. They carry the child, 2nd, they are more emotional. These two aspects I feel make them superior to men.

Click to expand...

You're joking right? While empathy (I assume you mean empathy when you say emotional) is a trait that is usually found in higher quantities in women, not everything is black and white. Some men score higher on the empathy chart than women. There are also women who psychopaths who completely lack empathy. I typically do not like to view traits as masculine or feminine, just traits that are commonly found in one gender over the other. No gender can claim ownership of them.

There is a nice documentary about brain sex you should look up. It shows that most people are a mixture between the genders.

As for carrying the child, who cares.. lol. Without us men, women wouldn't be having these babies to begin with. I fail to see why this would make women better than us. What kind of subjective standards are you aiming for anyways?

No femdom religions, no patriarchal religions, just religions that see everyone as equal. Religions that do not put people in boxes..

JackofSpades said:

I don't consider myself dogmatically feminist tho, what I believe now is mere conclusion of what I've witnessed and studied.

Click to expand...

Do you believe that men and women are equal, and should be treated as such? Then congratulations - you are a feminist.

Seriously, that's the only requirement needed to qualify.

My "religion of one" considers sexism one of the most troubling reactionary remnants of the agrarian age. This is also why I consider the established traditional religions to be fossils, artificially preserving a cultural status quo that the species has long since started to grow out of, and resisting all positive change.

Jane_the_Bane said:

Do you believe that men and women are equal, and should be treated as such? Then congratulations - you are a feminist.

Click to expand...

I'm using "feminism" in sense its actually practised in my experience, just like with religions. Which in this case doesn't mean gender equality generally, but intense focusing on womens rights and position.

I don't really care if its vocabulary meaning isn't excactly that, thats how people who identify as feminists typically put it in practise. And in this sense, I'm not feminist.

I would also prefer not being labeled as a feminist. Many of the feminist I have met are awful people who are not really concerned about equality. Many of them want special treatment and double standards for themselves. If you are going to force us to use the label of feminist, then at least also take concentrated effort to take away the title of feminist to the many women who do not actually care about gender equality.

The bottom line is we don't want to be grouped with them. Someone is going to have to budge and stop using the term feminist.

I personally like to use the term egalitarian myself.

elephunky said:

Question - does your religion or faith path hold women in the same kind of view as islam and christianity (back seat roles) or are women more empowered and on equal playing field with men?

Click to expand...

Good question "phunky":

Baha'is believe men and women are equal.. Women should be educated and choose whom they wish to marry.. Women participate in our administration and vote.. there is no priesthood or ministerial offices in the Baha'i Faith.

Tahirih is an iconic figure in our history .. She was a major follower of the Bab one of the Letters of the Living.. She removed her veil and divorced her husband.

Bahiyyih Khanum after the passing of Abdul-Baha was the defacto head of the Faith for some time.

See the following essay by Susan Maneck a Baha'i who posted on this forum:

Women in the Bahá'í Faith

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

I don't know how Islaam is being lumped in with Christianity. Islaam gave rights to women that much of the Christian world did not have until pretty recently (just a century or two ago for some things).

Click to expand...

Can they take their cover off if they wanted to?

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

We've always had the right to divorce, the right to property, inheritance, to fight in battles, to teach, to question, to learn, to write. One of our first & best scholars was a woman ('Aishah may Allaah be pleased with her). One of the first martyrs was a woman (Sumayyah may Allaah be pleased with her). The Prophet's first wife was a businesswoman (Khadijah may Allaah be pleased with her).

Click to expand...

In the Torah there are records of woman lead battles, and God specificly allowed the daughter of someone to have property, so yes in Christianity women are allowed pretty much everything a man has.

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

We do have equal reward for good deeds, though: Whoever does righteousness, whether male or female, while he is a believer - We will surely cause him to live a good life, and We will surely give them their reward [in the Hereafter] according to the best of what they used to do. (Surah an-Nahl 16:97)

I don't love being a Muslimah for nothing!

Click to expand...

In Islam, men in paradise have 72 virgins, women got 1 men.

In Christianity, Jesus said this:
When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven (Mark 12:25). In other words, totally equal.

dcalling wrote:

"...men in paradise have 72 virgins, women got 1 men."

I think if you checked on the etymology of the Arabic word you might be surprised..

The wiki has it:

The word 'ḥūr' (حُو&#1585 is the plural of both ʾaḥwar (أحْوَ&#1585 (masculine) and ḥawrāʾ (حَوْرا&#1569 (feminine) [21] which literally translates as "white-eyed", or persons distinguished by ḥawar (حَوَ&#1585, signifying "intense whiteness of the eyeballs and lustrous black of the pupils." (ref: Qamus ), hence 'the purity'.[22] In 3 of the 4 Quranic verses in which the word ḥūr is specifically used, it is collocated with the word ʿayn (عي&#1606 and in this sense is used to refer to the beautiful eyes in terms of contrast between the white and the dark. In general, this word implies 'most beautiful eye' irrespective of the person's gender. Thus, it seems that the most appropriate English rendering of the phrase ḥūr ʿayn might be: "Companions pure, most beautiful of eye."[23] and it is applicable to both male and female.[24]

Houri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

dcalling said:

Can they take their cover off if they wanted to?

Click to expand...

Generally, it's a sin for both men and women to uncover the parts that they're supposed to cover.

In the Torah there are records of woman lead battles, and God specificly allowed the daughter of someone to have property, so yes in Christianity women are allowed pretty much everything a man has.

Click to expand...

1.) Do not verses in Numbers 27 indicate that the daughter(s) inherit if there aren't any sons? And apparently wives or sisters don't inherit from their husbands or brothers at all. In Islaam, daughters, widows, and sisters are all given a portion of the inheritance of a man.

2.) In my religion, a woman's property and wealth is her own and she is not obliged to share it with her husband or spend on him while he is obligated to spend part of his wealth on her (and the other womenfolk of his family if they do not have anyone else to spend on them).

The groom is the one to present a dowry to his bride and the dowry is hers and not her family's.

Contrast this with the Judeo-Christian tradition where a woman's property & wealth become essentially his upon marriage. The bride (i.e. her family) is the one who gives a dowry to the groom.

3.) According to Judaism (and, therefore, I'm assuming Christianity), only women can technically be accused of adultery because the definition of adultery does not include married men having sex outside of marriage. In Christianity, getting divorced & remarrying is considered adultery.

In Islaam, anyone who had sex with people they are not permitted to have it with is guilty of some form of zinaa (whether it be fornication or adultery), regardless of gender. And remarriage after divorce is not, by any means, considered adultery.

In Islam, men in paradise have 72 virgins, women got 1 men.

Click to expand...

No, it is the martyrs who are described as getting 72 hoor al ayn. The non-martyrs get at least 2 if I recall correctly.

As for how many husbands women get, Allaah knows best. I've read somewhere that women get a similar reward but it was not mentioned due to the shyness of women. Whatever the case, women will not be deprived of reward equal in magnitude for the same deeds.

Arthra said:

dcalling wrote:

"...men in paradise have 72 virgins, women got 1 men."

I think if you checked on the etymology of the Arabic word you might be surprised..

The wiki has it:

The word 'ḥūr' (حُو&#1585 is the plural of both ʾaḥwar (أحْوَ&#1585 (masculine) and ḥawrāʾ (حَوْرا&#1569 (feminine) [21] which literally translates as "white-eyed", or persons distinguished by ḥawar (حَوَ&#1585, signifying "intense whiteness of the eyeballs and lustrous black of the pupils." (ref: Qamus ), hence 'the purity'.[22] In 3 of the 4 Quranic verses in which the word ḥūr is specifically used, it is collocated with the word ʿayn (عي&#1606 and in this sense is used to refer to the beautiful eyes in terms of contrast between the white and the dark. In general, this word implies 'most beautiful eye' irrespective of the person's gender. Thus, it seems that the most appropriate English rendering of the phrase ḥūr ʿayn might be: "Companions pure, most beautiful of eye."[23] and it is applicable to both male and female.[24]

Houri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Click to expand...

I think LoveTobeMuslim has a better response....

LoveBeingAMuslimah said:

Generally, it's a sin for both men and women to uncover the parts that they're supposed to cover.

Click to expand...

So women in Islam can't uncover her hair?

1.) Do not verses in Numbers 27 indicate that the daughter(s) inherit if there aren't any sons? And apparently wives or sisters don't inherit from their husbands or brothers at all. In Islaam, daughters, widows, and sisters are all given a portion of the inheritance of a man.

Click to expand...

Read Numbers 27 carefully:
Moses brought their case before the Lord. And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: The daughters of Zelophehad are right in what they are saying; you shall indeed let them possess an inheritance among their father’s brothers and pass the inheritance of their father on to them. You shall also say to the Israelites, “If a man dies, and has no son, then you shall pass his inheritance on to his daughter. … It shall be for the Israelites a statute and ordinance, as the Lord commanded Moses.”

2.) In my religion, a woman's property and wealth is her own and she is not obliged to share it with her husband or spend on him while he is obligated to spend part of his wealth on her (and the other womenfolk of his family if they do not have anyone else to spend on them).

The groom is the one to present a dowry to his bride and the dowry is hers and not her family's.

Contrast this with the Judeo-Christian tradition where a woman's property & wealth become essentially his upon marriage. The bride (i.e. her family) is the one who gives a dowry to the groom.

Click to expand...

Tradition is not the official teachings. There are many strange Muslim /Christian traditions that are totally out of the book. I heard about a case in US that a Muslim immigrant was caught trying to genital mutilation, I can't blame that to Islam, it is just some tradition.

3.) According to Judaism (and, therefore, I'm assuming Christianity), only women can technically be accused of adultery because the definition of adultery does not include married men having sex outside of marriage. In Christianity, getting divorced & remarrying is considered adultery.

Click to expand...

Where is the quote that only women can be accused of adultery? I remember the Torah said if caught adultery, both man and woman will be stoned.

Jesus shows us how God's standard is, even if a man look at woman lustly, he has committed adultery.

In Islam, a man need to say divoce 3 times to divoce, but it is much harder for woman.
Divorce in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Islaam, anyone who had sex with people they are not permitted to have it with is guilty of some form of zinaa (whether it be fornication or adultery), regardless of gender. And remarriage after divorce is not, by any means, considered adultery.

Click to expand...

As I said, God's standard of adultery is high. You don't even need to have sex to commit adultery. God knows the evil in heart, even if you think of adultery it is adultery.

No, it is the martyrs who are described as getting 72 hoor al ayn. The non-martyrs get at least 2 if I recall correctly.

As for how many husbands women get, Allaah knows best. I've read somewhere that women get a similar reward but it was not mentioned due to the shyness of women. Whatever the case, women will not be deprived of reward equal in magnitude for the same deeds.

Click to expand...

If that is the case then I will consider Islam is fair to women at least in the after life (i.e. woman can also get multiples of beautiful eyes or man).

However I consider Jesus's word the word from God:
When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven (Mark 12:25)

MehGuy said:

As for carrying the child, who cares.. lol. Without us men, women wouldn't be having these babies to begin with. I fail to see why this would make women better than us. What kind of subjective standards are you aiming for anyways?

Click to expand...

Cloning is possible with only females. Even without cloning, a hen house needs only one rooster, which makes each female, person for person, more valuable to a species than each male.