It's insane - tell this to your wife/husband!

AskTheFamily

Junior Member
Mar 14, 2010
2,854
195
37
Ottawa
✟14,900.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-NDP
"I love you but I think if justice was to take place, you would be distanced from God and not allowed to enter heaven. I love you but I don't believe you are good enough to earn perpetual peace."

What kind of love is this? A love that thinks of the person is not worthy of a life of perpetual peace. Thinks they ought to be distanced from God if justice would take place. Thinks the person is not worthy of perpetual peace.

This is what essentially Christianity is saying. What kind of love is this that teaches you to love your neighbor as yourself when you can't even love your wife or husband properly.

The least of love is that you think the person is worthy of respect. What kind of respect is to believe the person would enter hell and be distanced from God and not allowed to enter heaven if justice was to take place. That's not respect at all.

That's saying you are worthy of punishment and if justice was to take place, you don't deserve peace.

Tell your wife/husband "I love you but you don't deserve peace".

Like that makes sense!
 

Messy

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2011
10,027
2,082
Holland
✟21,082.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Tell your wife/husband "I love you but you don't deserve peace".

Like that makes sense!

Well if I have a cheating husband it makes perfect sense if I tell him he can get out of the house if justice takes place or he can repent. If I am loving the world and the devil, in the Old Testament is spoken about adultery when Israel had other gods.
 
Upvote 0

MehGuy

A member of the less neotenous sex..
Supporter
Jul 23, 2007
55,887
10,812
Minnesota
✟1,154,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I was spoon fed this rhetoric growing up. As a child I already had quite a difficult time grasping the concept of love and to be told that a loving God will essentially torture you forever if you do not love him did not make the task any easier.

I can not even imagine exposing my kids to these kinds of ideas. Their delicate minds potentially tarnished by such thoughts. If I found out that any person tried to instill these values into my children I'd probably punch them in the face. One good reason for them to never see grandpa. I am actually hurt that my parents thought this was an acceptable thing to tell their children.

Fortunately not all Christians subscribe to these ideas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: elephunky
Upvote 0

Messy

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2011
10,027
2,082
Holland
✟21,082.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I was spoon fed this rhetoric growing up. As a child I already had quite a difficult time grasping the concept of love and to be told that a loving God will essentially torture you forever if you do not love him did not make the task any easier.

I can not even imagine exposing my kids to these kinds of ideas. Their delicate minds potentially tarnished by such thoughts. If I found out that any person tried to instill these values into my children I'd probably punch them in the face. One good reason for them to never see grandpa. I am actually hurt that my parents thought this was an acceptable thing to tell their children.

Fortunately not all Christians subscribe to these ideas.

My ex recently told my 8 year old. Kid was terrified, I agree with you on that, however, I sometimes wonder what's the difference between an 8 year old kid and an adult. If you see how many people don't want God anymore because of hell preaching. I'm glad I didn't hear about it before I got saved.
 
Upvote 0

rick357

bond-slave
Jul 23, 2014
2,337
244
✟12,138.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
That view you are describing is not in line with scripture...Jesus said he came to save not condem...if he is not accepted one is already condemned...self is concious so that is confused with alive...Jesus said life is to know God and be one with his life...self is already seperate...God is not going to make it seperate...but flesh that is cut off is only viable to be reattached for so long and then the corruption takes hold....we are born seperate but God thruogh Jesus is trying to reattach us to the source of life...yet we are concious and must accept his offer
 
Upvote 0

MehGuy

A member of the less neotenous sex..
Supporter
Jul 23, 2007
55,887
10,812
Minnesota
✟1,154,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
@Messy

An eight year old kid is still developing basic understandings of things. Generally they are much more impressionable and open to accepting things without questioning.

While an adult might be screwed up later, they may still have a solid foundation to fall back on, the kid wouldn't.

It's just heart breaking to see innocent kids having to go through that. While religion varies on influence, some kids are totally taken in by it and as a result can become very screwed up later in life if they are taught damaging things.
 
Upvote 0

elephunky

Previously known as dgirl1986
Nov 28, 2007
5,497
203
Perth, Western Australia
✟14,441.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
AU-Greens
Well if I have a cheating husband it makes perfect sense if I tell him he can get out of the house if justice takes place or he can repent. If I am loving the world and the devil, in the Old Testament is spoken about adultery when Israel had other gods.

I am so sorry :(
 
Upvote 0

MehGuy

A member of the less neotenous sex..
Supporter
Jul 23, 2007
55,887
10,812
Minnesota
✟1,154,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
We worry about GTA and nudity on TV harming the children, but some of them never stop to question some of the religious values they freely indoctrinate their children with..

I think many people worry about the wrong things..
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

elephunky

Previously known as dgirl1986
Nov 28, 2007
5,497
203
Perth, Western Australia
✟14,441.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
AU-Greens
We worry about GTA and nudity on TV harming the children, but some of them never stop to question some of the religious values they freely indoctrinate their children with..

I think many people worry about the wrong things..

I went home from youth group once wanting to ball my eyes out because I thought my nanna was going to burn in hell and I would never see my cat again.
 
Upvote 0

MehGuy

A member of the less neotenous sex..
Supporter
Jul 23, 2007
55,887
10,812
Minnesota
✟1,154,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I went home from youth group once wanting to ball my eyes out because I thought my nanna was going to burn in hell and I would never see my cat again.

If the adults saw this, would they take the time to reconsider their beliefs? Or do you believe they would put their own fears and spiritual comforts ahead of their own child's mental health?

Sometimes I wonder if I should disown my parents..
 
Upvote 0

elephunky

Previously known as dgirl1986
Nov 28, 2007
5,497
203
Perth, Western Australia
✟14,441.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
AU-Greens
If the adults saw this, would they take the time to reconsider their beliefs? Or do you believe they would put their own fears and spiritual comforts ahead of their own child's mental health?

Sometimes I wonder if I should disown my parents..

I think they would feel bad I was upset but would standby the message.
 
Upvote 0

dcalling

Senior Member
Jan 31, 2014
3,184
323
✟107,345.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
That is not what Christians are saying. The Bible teaches us that:
1. Love your neighbor as yourself.
2. Even love your enemies and pray for them.
3. Don't judge others, God is the only judge.
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. (Matt 7:1)
Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? (Matt 7:4)

"I love you but I think if justice was to take place, you would be distanced from God and not allowed to enter heaven. I love you but I don't believe you are good enough to earn perpetual peace."

What kind of love is this? A love that thinks of the person is not worthy of a life of perpetual peace. Thinks they ought to be distanced from God if justice would take place. Thinks the person is not worthy of perpetual peace.

This is what essentially Christianity is saying. What kind of love is this that teaches you to love your neighbor as yourself when you can't even love your wife or husband properly.

The least of love is that you think the person is worthy of respect. What kind of respect is to believe the person would enter hell and be distanced from God and not allowed to enter heaven if justice was to take place. That's not respect at all.

That's saying you are worthy of punishment and if justice was to take place, you don't deserve peace.

Tell your wife/husband "I love you but you don't deserve peace".

Like that makes sense!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jane_the_Bane

Gaia's godchild
Feb 11, 2004
19,359
3,426
✟168,333.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
UK-Greens
That is not what Christians are saying. The Bible teaches us that:
1. Love your neighbor as yourself.
2. Even love your enemies and pray for them.
3. Don't judge others, God is the only judge.
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. (Matt 7:1)
Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? (Matt 7:4)

How does this countermand the OP?
Christianity holds that every single person who ever lived is deserving eternal torment, and that only Christ can save us (but by no merit of our own).

What's worse, even its charitable and non-judging aspects become somewhat creepy in light of Romans 12:20: On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head

It's quite likely that the author of Proverbs used the coals as a metaphor for shame and regret (seeing how Judaism knows no hell), but it's clear that Paul uses it to refer to divine punishment.

So, all that non-judging and enemy-loving that Jesus encouraged is basically retconned into an elaborate revenge fantasy, withholding instant vengeance in the knowledge that GOD will provide even more gruesome payback in the end.
 
Upvote 0

dcalling

Senior Member
Jan 31, 2014
3,184
323
✟107,345.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Originally Posted by dcalling
That is not what Christians are saying. The Bible teaches us that:
1. Love your neighbor as yourself.
2. Even love your enemies and pray for them.
3. Don't judge others, God is the only judge.
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. (Matt 7:1)
Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? (Matt 7:4)
How does this countermand the OP?
Christianity holds that every single person who ever lived is deserving eternal torment,
[/quote]
Where is this quote in Bible?
and that only Christ can save us (but by no merit of our own).
Yes
What's worse, even its charitable and non-judging aspects become somewhat creepy in light of Romans 12:20: On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head

I will take that burning coal over suicide bomber any time. Do you agree? The out come of a religion is almost as important as the religion itself.

It's quite likely that the author of Proverbs used the coals as a metaphor for shame and regret (seeing how Judaism knows no hell), but it's clear that Paul uses it to refer to divine punishment.

So, all that non-judging and enemy-loving that Jesus encouraged is basically retconned into an elaborate revenge fantasy, withholding instant vengeance in the knowledge that GOD will provide even more gruesome payback in the end.
It is more like you put the burden on their soul so they will be awakened.
 
Upvote 0

Dragons87

The regal Oriental kind; not evil princess-napper
Nov 13, 2005
3,532
175
London, UK
✟4,572.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
How does this countermand the OP?
Christianity holds that every single person who ever lived is deserving eternal torment, and that only Christ can save us (but by no merit of our own).

That's not what all of Christianity holds. Some simply maintain that every single person who ever lived will be judged according to what they have done and not done in their lives.

What's worse, even its charitable and non-judging aspects become somewhat creepy in light of Romans 12:20: On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”

It's quite likely that the author of Proverbs used the coals as a metaphor for shame and regret (seeing how Judaism knows no hell), but it's clear that Paul uses it to refer to divine punishment.

I have already suggested why Paul did not mean what you say he means in another thread.

So, all that non-judging and enemy-loving that Jesus encouraged is basically retconned into an elaborate revenge fantasy, withholding instant vengeance in the knowledge that GOD will provide even more gruesome payback in the end.

That's too simplistic and reductionist an argument. I don't even know where to begin.

Forgive me, but I'm starting to get the impression that you actively want to set up Christianity to be a hate figure, so you construct this hate figure according to selected sayings so that you can hate it, instead of considering the context, the nuances, the background and any other mitigating circumstances. Do correct me if that is not the impression you are making (but then, since you maintain that authorial intention does not explain your words, perhaps you will allow me to basically assume that you will hate Christianity whatever the cost?)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jane_the_Bane

Gaia's godchild
Feb 11, 2004
19,359
3,426
✟168,333.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
UK-Greens
me, but I'm starting to get the impression that you actively want to set up Christianity to be a hate figure, so you construct this hate figure according to selected sayings so that you can hate it, instead of considering the context, the nuances, the background and any other mitigating circumstances. Do correct me if that is not the impression you are making (but then, since you maintain that authorial intention does not explain your words, perhaps you will allow me to basically assume that you will hate Christianity whatever the cost?)
In the other thread, this discussion culminated in a much more agreeable (and accurate) assessment: it's not Christianity (or my representation thereof) that is the problem, but certain groups within its larger body that maintain EXACTLY what I'm criticizing here.

I am not broadbrushing by any means. A VAST portion of American Protestantism is riddled with judgmental vengefulness, which is not only reflected in the political sphere (i.e. the death penalty, gun craziness, the "Tea Party", etc.), but also in their theology.
 
Upvote 0