Resurrection Disproves Pop Culture End Time Teachings

Manasseh_ said:

well I knew you'd refuse to answer the questions and the reasons are all too obvious..........

God is not the author of confusion, he inspired Solomon to write those books, it's God's truth, not that of Solomon...........
Christ told satan when he was tempted that man shall live by EVERY WORD from God, you added the clause : except for those books mentioned

.....and you are now implying that the NT contradicts the OT writings on this subject, the truth is that the contradiction comes only from your false doctrine and misunderstandings.........it seems the more you speak the deeper the hole gets

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Can you prove what you say: that God inspired Solomon to write that if a tree falls to the north or to the south, wherever it falls, there is where it will lay? Today it would only lay there a moment, before a huge machine picks it up and moves it. Today we have the New Testament that tells us something different than Solomon wrote about spirits. Today we know the spirits of many humans are in hell.

I think you need to read it again:
1 Pet 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Hebrews 12
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

REmember what Paul wrote, that to be absent from our fleshly body would be to be present with the Lord.

Heb 12
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Is a father a father of a breath or a father of a human being? This is answered here. God is the father of human spirits.

1 Thes, 5
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

When Jesus comes, those who trust in Him will be complete, with spirit, soul and body together.

I could go one, but why bother? The New Testament is clear that we are a Spirit, and we live in a body - and when the body quits, our spirits are taken to heaven.

precepts said:

Private interpretation is of the Devil. I can't make you accept the facts, but everything I have posted are scriptural facts. Ezekiel specifically state the spirit in man is God's breath; yet, you ignore the fact.

The one verse you are quoting, Christ visiting the prisoners in Hades, is a fabrication. There's no other verse in scripture to support anyone in Hell after death, except that one.

I consider you to be in the camp with all the false miracle working crusaders because you purposely ignore the facts to promote your false, private interpretations. That's why you ignore the facts, not because you don't understand, but that you have your agenda, which is evident by your games. True believers don't play petty games while preaching the gospel.



Here is where you are adding to scripture.



Look at how smart you are. So what about the Eze 37? You can't accept 1Pe, and deny Eze 37 and all the other verses referring to death as sleep, but that's how you do. You are void of understanding, one-sided.



You don't even know what speculating is.


You talk too much. Where's the rich man tormented?



Nobody's that stupid to think there's no resurrection involved in Lazarus and the rich man parable. Nobody!



There's no life after death until the resurrections, period.



Paul had the Holy Spirit. I don't what they have?



This is your false interpretation of scripture. Scripture and Christ himself said death is sleep. Sleepers aren't conscious of anything.




Lazarus was carried to Abraham's bosom by an Angel. Why? Because it was a resurrection. Lazarus didn't have a out of body, spirit floating up to heaven as an overcoat, experience. He was carried to heaven by an Angel, a resurrection. No floating up to heaven as a spirit or fairy.




You teach without accepting all the facts which is illogical.



Eze 37 teaches nothing like what? Eze 37 specifically states God's puts his spirit, his breath, into the dead souls, just like when Adam was formed out of the earth. God blew breath into Adam, and he became a living soul.



You keep bring up Solomon. When did I quote Solomon? Plus, Solomon being the wisest man, I doubt, would write anything erroneous.

Imagine you being so arrogant as to try to debase Solomon.




No, an educated guess uses circumstantial evidence. Your guesses are as good as a lottery ticket drawing. They have no logical explanation for your conclusions.




Where is the rich man being tormented?



Regardless of the noted resurrections in scripture, the fact souls arise from the graves before they reach heaven, and despite the numerous verses quoting death as sleep. Wow!



Eze 37 is the putting back on the bones flesh and sinew. Where's the living souls that went back to heaven before this resurrection? You're talking folly. What is the spirit that brings them back to life if not God's spirit/breathe? You're not that simple.



So, the living spirits descend from heaven, or ascend from hell, to go back into their resurrected, corruptible, fleshly bodies to do what? To receive a new incorruptible [fleshly?] body to go back to heaven?

Iamlamad 21:45-61


Facts can't be proven wrong. They can only be denied. Eze 37 is a fact along with all the other verses proving death is sleep. You can only deny them, not make them void, but nice dodge though!

You can never prove my scriptural facts aren't relevant. Now, say a couple of alleluias and have a nice day.

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It is absolutely amazing what you think you know. However, please show us a verse in Ezek 37 that you think proves something? Some of the readers might need a little help.

Psalms 16:10
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

WHERE is this soul? It is in HELL or Hades, the place of departed spirits.

Dictionary.com: Hades
noun the underworld inhabited by departed souls.

Strongs: Hades, the abode of departed spirits

NAS Exhaustive concordance:
Hades, the abode of departed spirits

As usual, your "facts" don't line up with truth.

The truth is, the spirits of the lost, along with their souls, end up in hell, where they think, and fear in torment.

By the way, how many verses in the bible do you need to establish truth? Is not Jesus telling us ONCE good enough from truth?

It is for those with faith.

I don't play games; I just write truth, which some cannot handle or believe.

iamlamad said:

It is absolutely amazing what you think you know. However, please show us a verse in Ezek 27 that you think proves something? Some of the readers might need a little help.

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Prove something like what? What doesn't Eze 37 say?

iamlamad said:

Psalms 16:10
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

WHERE is this soul? It is in HELL or Hades, the place of departed spirits.

Dictionary.com: Hades
noun the underworld inhabited by departed souls.

Strongs: Hades, the abode of departed spirits

NAS Exhaustive concordance:
Hades, the abode of departed spirits

As usual, your "facts" don't line up with truth.

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It's your sources' facts that don't line up with truth! They being secular have to supply all the definitions given, regardless if they're factual or not. But when David said God would not leave his soul in hell, he was referring to the grave. The same definition applies to the second part of the verse, the Holy One not to see corruption being Christ will not rot in the grave.

If you're not going to burn in hell, why would David?

iamlamad said:

The truth is, the spirits of the lost, along with their souls, end up in hell, where they think, and fear in torment.

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That reminds me. You said no soul ascended to heaven before Christ's resurrection, so what happened to the righteous souls that died before Christ? Did they go to Hades?

iamlamad said:

By the way, how many verses in the bible do you need to establish truth? Is not Jesus telling us ONCE good enough from truth?

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Like I said, you're one sided. What about all the other verses saying contrary?

iamlamad said:

It is for those with faith.

I don't play games; I just write truth, which some cannot handle or believe.

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Why didn't you address these points I left on another post?

Three interesting points that prove you wrong:

- Lazarus was carried to Abraham's bosom by an Angel. Why? Because it was a resurrection. Lazarus didn't have a out of body, spirit floating up to heaven as an overcoat, experience. He was carried to heaven by an Angel, a resurrection. No floating up to heaven as a spirit or fairy.
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- Eze 37 teaches nothing like what? Eze 37 specifically states God's puts his spirit, his breath, into the dead souls, just like when Adam was formed out of the earth. God blew breath into Adam, and he became a living soul.
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- So, the living spirits descend from heaven or ascend from hell to go back into their resurrected, corruptible, fleshly bodies to do what? To receive a new incorruptible [fleshly?] body to go back to heaven?

Iamlamad 21:45-61
​

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precepts said:

Prove something like what? What doesn't Eze 37 say?

It's your sources' facts that don't line up with truth! They being secular have to supply all the definitions given, regardless if they're factual or not. But when David said God would not leave his soul in hell, he was referring to the grave. The same definition applies to the second part of the verse, the Holy One not to see corruption being Christ will not rot in the grave.

If you're not going to burn in hell, why would David?

That reminds me. You said no soul ascended to heaven before Christ's resurrection, so what happened to the righteous souls that died before Christ? Did they go to Hades?

Like I said, you're one sided. What about all the other verses saying contrary?

Why didn't you address these points I left on another post?

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It is a waste of time to address each point. YOu would not believe it anyway. I post for the readers, so they get some truth here.

There ARE NO verses to the contrary, except for what Solomon wrote. He was mistaken. I am sure what he said or wrote was recorded accurately, but just like Job's three friends, was WRONG.

Where have you been all your Christian life? You remind me of the proverbial turnip truck! ALL spirits from Adam to Jesus had to go to hades: there was no other place provided.

It is a fact (since you use this word so frequently) and it is truth, that the secular dictionaries are in agreement with Strongs and other Christian sources here: hades is the place of departed spirits. However, God does have exceptions; Enoch and Elijah being the only two exceptions I know of. I don't think they went to Hades.

You keep pointing to Ezek. 37 for proof of your arguments. I asked you to provide a verse to prove your point, but you did not. Perhaps you could not find the right verse. You did know that was a VISION and not reality?

when David said God would not leave his soul in hell, he was referring to the grave.

Can you prove this? If we study all the Old Testament verses on hell, I think they are all speaking of the same place; more than just the grave, but Hades, the pit, the "in the nether parts of the earth."

iamlamad said:

It is a waste of time to address each point. YOu would not believe it anyway. I post for the readers, so they get some truth here.

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You have much too high an opinion of your ability to interpret the word.

iamlamad said:

ALL spirits from Adam to Jesus had to go to hades: there was no other place provided.

It is a fact and it is truth, that the secular dictionaries are in agreement with Strongs and other Christian sources here: hades is the place of departed spirits.

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After the death of the physical body the spirit return to God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Daniel 12:2 - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

iamlamad said:

It is a waste of time to address each point. YOu would not believe it anyway. I post for the readers, so they get some truth here.

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That's your excuse because you can't answer the facts.

iamlamad said:

There ARE NO verses to the contrary, except for what Solomon wrote. He was mistaken. I am sure what he said or wrote was recorded accurately, but just like Job's three friends, was WRONG.

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After all the verses I have posted that you have denied, you are know saying I haven't posted any? that none exist?

iamlamad said:

Where have you been all your Christian life? You remind me of the proverbial turnip truck! ALL spirits from Adam to Jesus had to go to hades: there was no other place provided.

It is a fact (since you use this word so frequently) and it is truth, that the secular dictionaries are in agreement with Strongs and other Christian sources here: hades is the place of departed spirits. However, God does have exceptions; Enoch and Elijah being the only two exceptions I know of. I don't think they went to Hades.

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I asked you what happened to the righteous that died before Christ's ascension? Where did they go since no one ascended to heaven before Christ's resurrection? Where did they go?

iamlamad said:

You keep pointing to Ezek. 37 for proof of your arguments. I asked you to provide a verse to prove your point, but you did not. Perhaps you could not find the right verse. You did know that was a VISION and not reality?

when David said God would not leave his soul in hell, he was referring to the grave.

Can you prove this? If we study all the Old Testament verses on hell, I think they are all speaking of the same place; more than just the grave, but Hades, the pit, the "in the nether parts of the earth."

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I proved it when I pointed out you won't be spending any time in hell, so why David?



I don't know why I even bother with you, because you're not genuine, and you're purposely posting foolishness. I guess you think you're smarting than me, and the readers would eventual realize it after seeing me being stringed along, but you're only fooling yourself. You're not that naive.

Riberra said:

After the death of the physical body the spirit return to God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Daniel 12:2 - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

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1 Peter 3
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Heb. 12
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


Here is shows us that JUST spirits make it to heaven after death. It tells us nothing about spirits of the unrighteous.


Note also that where the Spirit goes, so also goes the soul, for they are inseparable. So if the verse above, the spirits of the just along with their souls, are in heaven.



Heb. 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Heb. 12:9
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

This is speaking of a FATHER SON relationship. Sorry, but a breath does not have a father. A SPIRIT does.


1 Cor. 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

If it is the human spirit that may be saved, then it is the spirit that may be LOST. Do you think a LOST spirit will make it to heaven?

1 Cor 6:17
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

What of those that are NOT joined unto the Lord? They do not have the Holy Spirit and the seal of the Holy Spirit in their human spirit. There is no way they can get to heaven.

1 Cor. 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

We are to give glory to God WITH OUR SPIRIT. How is this possible? Our spirit person inside is the REAL US.

So will you trust in Ecclesiastes or in the New Testament? Either the New Testament in many verses is off, or Solomon was off. Both cannot be right.

In the New Testament, the spirits of the saved go to heaven, but the spirits of the LOST go to hell.

Luke 16
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.


In both cases, the body was buried. However, the inward man, the spirit was carried either to Abraham's bosom or to hell. Note that the spirit of a man has eyes, and ears and can think and remember.


This story of the rich man and Lazarus has been reconfirmed MANY TIMES in recent years, as God has taken many to see hell. They tell the story just like this: the spirits of people in FLAMES, tormented: untold MILLIONS of them.


The truth of this is, Solomon wrote with human wisdom and it was accurately recorded for us. However, Paul tells us to RIGHTLY divide the Word of God. This is why Paul wrote that verse. Some verses in the bible are simply NOT the inspired word of God.



Solomon was right for the righteous, but wrong for the unrighteous - unless he was only talking about the righteous.

iamlamad said:

1 Peter 3
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison ;

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The Bible tell us who are those spirits chained in prison (Hell) to be held for judgment...
2 Peter 2:4

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

iamlamad said:

Heb. 12
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


Here is shows us that JUST spirits make it to heaven after death.

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That would be interesting to know who are these just men (in spirit) made perfect and how much of them are actually in heaven with God ?Maybe the 24 Elders...

The Bible tell us that all those who -and will- died in Christ will be resurrected to be part of Jesus Millennium here on Earth ... The First Resurrection
Revelation 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

iamlamad said:

It tells us nothing about spirits of the unrighteous.

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Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 20:14

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The Bible tell us who are those spirits chained in prison (Hell) to be held for judgment...
2 Peter 2:4

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

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He had know reason to preach to them(angels),as they were and are already judged...He preached to those who did'nt have the same chance as those for whom He died on the cross for........

I Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,"

These spirits that Christ preached to in prison, where the spirits of the saints that died prior to His death on the cross.

n2thelight said:

He had know reason to preach to them(angels),as they were and are already judged...He preached to those who did'nt have the same chance as those for whom He died on the cross for........

I Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,"

These spirits that Christ preached to in prison, where the spirits of the saints that died prior to His death on the cross.

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Verse 20 seem to impute a -disobedience- made by these spirits occurring during the days of Noah as the reason for these spirits to be in prison (Hell).


I Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

I Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1-Peter-Chapter-3/

Some interesting verses on death and the grave:

Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Psa 31:17 Let me not be ashamed, O LORD; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave.

Psa 49:14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.

Psa 88:5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.

Psa 88:11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?

Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

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I see no absent from the body present with God, nor any spirit living apart from the grave here. Does anyone?

precepts said:

Some interesting verses on death and the grave:

I see no absent from the body present with God, nor any spirit living apart from the grave here. Does anyone?

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Look at Rev.20:4 with a valid interpretation.

Old Jack's opinion

Rev20 said:

You have much too high an opinion of your ability to interpret the word.

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I take a back seat to Precepts.....far far back as in a limo.

precepts said:

That's your excuse because you can't answer the facts.


After all the verses I have posted that you have denied, you are know saying I haven't posted any? that none exist?



I asked you what happened to the righteous that died before Christ's ascension? Where did they go since no one ascended to heaven before Christ's resurrection? Where did they go?



I proved it when I pointed out you won't be spending any time in hell, so why David?



I don't know why I even bother with you, because you're not genuine, and you're purposely posting foolishness. I guess you think you're smarting than me, and the readers would eventual realize it after seeing me being stringed along, but you're only fooling yourself. You're not that naive.

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As I said before, your "facts" are just verses that don't prove what you say, except in your own mind. Anyone can pull a verse from the Old Testament and declare it as proof of something. Jehovah's Witnesses are masters at that. Real proof will come from a New Testament verse that makes a shadow from the Old into something real.

Believers going to heaven, and unbelievers going to hell has been church doctrine since the beginning of the church. You can deny it if you wish; but you will be wrong.

precepts said:

Prove something like what? What doesn't Eze 37 say?



It's your sources' facts that don't line up with truth! They being secular have to supply all the definitions given, regardless if they're factual or not. But when David said God would not leave his soul in hell, he was referring to the grave. The same definition applies to the second part of the verse, the Holy One not to see corruption being Christ will not rot in the grave.

If you're not going to burn in hell, why would David?



That reminds me. You said no soul ascended to heaven before Christ's resurrection, so what happened to the righteous souls that died before Christ? Did they go to Hades?



Like I said, you're one sided. What about all the other verses saying contrary?

Why didn't you address these points I left on another post?

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You live in some fairytale land. "all the other verses" you chose say nothing of the kind. You only think they do.

Now try and concentrate as we read this verse:

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes,

YOu try and put a resurrection here, where Luke did not. Indeed, this is moments after death: there is no resurrection here.

I see how you operate: when a verse proves you wrong, you just change the meaning of the verse! How convenient!

Pulpit Commentary:

Lazarus is described as being borne at once into Abraham's bosom. Indeed, some interpret the words as signifying that the body as well as the soul was carried by angels into Paradise*. It is, however, better, with Calvin, to understand the expression as alluding only to Lazarus's soul;

* Some like you that imagine this was resurrection day!

Benson Commentary
Luke 16:22. And it came to pass — In a little time; that the beggar died — Worn out with hunger, and pain, and want of all things; and was carried by angels (amazing change of the scene!) into Abraham’s bosom — So the Jews styled paradise; the place or state where the souls of good men remain from death to the resurrection.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Was carried by the angels - The Jews held the opinion that the spirits of the righteous were conveyed by angels to heaven at their death.

Matthew Poole's Commentary

two great points are proved:

1. That the soul is capable of an existence separated from the body, and therefore is not, as some atheists dream, a mere affection of that, and an accident, but a distinct spiritual subsistence.

2. That the souls of the good, when they depart from their bodies, immediately pass into an eternal state of blessedness.

Next, consider what was said between Martha and Jesus:

John 11
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.


It is proven beyond any shadow of doubt: there was a DEATH but no resurrection. At DEATH one went to Abraham's bosom, while the other went to hell and fire. You just insert a resurrection so this will fit your theories.
You have been caught twisting scripture. NO COMMENTARY I could find agreed with your theory.

precepts said:

Some interesting verses on death and the grave:

I see no absent from the body present with God, nor any spirit living apart from the grave here. Does anyone?

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Did you ever hear of the NEW TESTAMENT? You should read it sometime!

n2thelight said:

He had know reason to preach to them(angels),as they were and are already judged...He preached to those who did'nt have the same chance as those for whom He died on the cross for........

I Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,"

These spirits that Christ preached to in prison, where the spirits of the saints that died prior to His death on the cross.

Click to expand...

iamlamad said:

As I said before, your "facts" are just verses that don't prove what you say, except in your own mind. Anyone can pull a verse from the Old Testament and declare it as proof of something. Jehovah's Witnesses are masters at that. Real proof will come from a New Testament verse that makes a shadow from the Old into something real.

Believers going to heaven, and unbelievers going to hell has been church doctrine since the beginning of the church. You can deny it if you wish; but you will be wrong.

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Again you're dodging the facts.