Black men telling it like it is

Belk · Nov 2, 2014

elliott95 said:
Slavers provided their subjects with subsistence living, and no more, just like welfare does.

The relationship between the welfare recipient and the government is one of utter dependance, and being subject to the whims of the one who provides.

So having nothing and being utterly destitute is somehow a better position?

YeShallTread · Nov 2, 2014

Belk said:
So having nothing and being utterly destitute is somehow a better position?

And are you a racist?

I ask because wouldn't that be someone that sees others (strong, intelligent and able) as not being able to "somehow achieve a better position?" Being "utterly destitute" and being helped to help oneself out of that position should be the goal....not to give, give, give allowing someone to stay in that position.

rambot · Nov 2, 2014

YeShallTread said:
And are you a racist? I ask because wouldn't that be someone that sees others (strong, intelligent and able) as not being able to "somehow achieve a better position?" Being "utterly destitute" and being helped to help oneself out of that position should be the goal....not to give, give, give allowing someone to stay in that position.

I'm hoping it would be evident to all that in fact, there are individuals for whom "give, give, give" and staying in the position of living by him/herself and accessing food bank and community organizations for support WOULD be a TREMENDOUS success. Mental health is not defined by race. Just like how poverty is not defined by race.

Each individual has different capacities and so you can't have the SAME goal for "everyone in social assistance". That's stupid.

elliott95 · Nov 2, 2014

Belk said:
So having nothing and being utterly destitute is somehow a better position?

There is most often the possibility of the third option as well. America is truly a land of opportunity.

Carpe Diem.

elliott95 · Nov 2, 2014

The question is so often posed of what the Republicans have to offer blacks in order to win their votes over.

The problem is, as soon as Republicans start promising goodies to win over an ethnic vote, they cease being Republicans and in effect become another version of the Democratic party.

ChristsSoldier115 · Nov 2, 2014

elliott95 said:
There is most often the possibility of the third option as well. America is truly a land of opportunity.

Carpe Diem.

Most small business owners around here are immigrants. How come they can easily come to this country and succeed and Americans in this country do not? A palestinian guy around here owns 5 different gas stations. He used to own just one, and before that he just worked in one. Obviously immigrants know something about money Americans do not. Americans do not understand that they have to compromise comfort to succeed.

EdwinWillers · Nov 2, 2014

DaisyDay said:
Du jour, meaning "of the day". Phones for poor people dates back to Reagan, as I think you already know.

Yeah, pardon my misspelling - my total bad.

And yeah, it was wrong back then too.

DaisyDay said:
And some people think it is a good idea to alleviate the worst parts of poverty.

And I'm one of them. Did you watch any of the video?

DaisyDay said:
Yeah, poverty programs target poor communities and unfortunately, for many reasons, a lot of black communities have been and continue to be disproportionately poor.

Did you watch any of the video?

DaisyDay said:
Ok, I don't get it - how is welfare anything like slavery?

May I have your permission to quote this in my signature?

EdwinWillers · Nov 2, 2014

[serious];66564692 said:
Well, we've got 4 examples from the video.

I know black people who want to close the boarders, I know black people who want strong gun control. I know black people who want to audit the fed. I know black people on the other side of all those issues. I know white people on both sides of all those issues as well. Those 4 people represent 4 people's experiences. 4 random black guys don't speak for all black people.

No one's asserting "4 random black guys" are speaking for all black people. Sheesh, where'd you get that?

Tell me 4 people of any color who speaks for all people of that color (as if such criteria is what's necessary before paying any of them any heed). :doh:

Such logic as would attempt to negate the import of what these men are saying by dismissing them as "4 random black guys" is, I would imagine, as offensive as someone dismissing what you have to say because you are but "1 random [whatever color you are] guy."

So rather than nonchalantly dismiss what they are saying because of their color and relative number, perhaps you could comment instead on the content of their message? << just a thought that came to me as I remember someone yearning for something similar in times past >>

EdwinWillers · Nov 2, 2014

Belk said:
So having nothing and being utterly destitute is somehow a better position?

In a world where the opportunity does exist to change that, yes. Did you watch any of the video? That is pretty much what one of them said, not verbatim, but close.

DaisyDay · Nov 2, 2014

EdwinWillers said:
Yeah, pardon my misspelling - my total bad.

And yeah, it was wrong back then too.

And I'm one of them. Did you watch any of the video?

Did you watch any of the video?

Actually, yes. It was about prison and the difficulty that ex-cons have getting work.

May I have your permission to quote this in my signature?

Yes. Prison may be very like slavery, but welfare is not.

praying · Nov 2, 2014

EdwinWillers said:
Phones were the freebie du-juor. More inclusively, it'd include welfare in general , food stamps (free food), free education, free homes/mortgages, free healthcare, free retirement, free cars, free transportation, free this, free that.

Some people want everything for free - and politicians desirous of keeping their careers and building the machine are not only willing to give it to them, but realizing just how important freeloaders are to their careers and their goals are desirous of building the base of people who expect everything for free.

And sadly, one of the targets of this government largesse has always been the black community - turning it into a community of people who expect everything for free while forcing them back into the very thing they (and we) struggled so hard to free them from in the first place - slavery. Fortunately, the black community is beginning to realize the damage that's being done to them and are starting to speak up.

I don't know any black people who expect anything for free, yes I am black and I am not the exception. I worked with a women (white), a very nice woman, who once told myself and a coworker that we were not like other black people, and both of us said, yes, yes we are.

Are there black people who do, yes there are. Are there white people who do, yes there are. They expects hand outs from the government I don't think anyone expects everything for free.

And who is giving people free cars? Heck I might get in line for that.

elliott95 · Nov 2, 2014

ChristsSoldier115 said:
Most small business owners around here are immigrants. How come they can easily come to this country and succeed and Americans in this country do not? A palestinian guy around here owns 5 different gas stations. He used to own just one, and before that he just worked in one. Obviously immigrants know something about money Americans do not. Americans do not understand that they have to compromise comfort to succeed.

We can all remember how the Arab Spring got started, which was all about small business owners in the ME being subjected to the corrupt practices of the police against businesses, specifically Tunisia.
America is not like that, at this point in time anyway. Opportunities do exist, and in spite of any racism that exists against Muslims or blacks or any number of groups.
One cannot underestimate how corrosive on the very soul of poor people it has been to promise the poor that their opportunity lies with government programs, rather than with their own initiatives.
To state that people are to be responsible for themselves is not to blame the victim, as the black leadership alluded to in the OP often claims it to be. What it is is a statement to divert the eyes of the poor elsewhere, rather than to government programs as their tickets to a better life.

praying · Nov 2, 2014

EdwinWillers said:
No one's asserting "4 random black guys" are speaking for all black people. Sheesh, where'd you get that?

Tell me 4 people of any color who speaks for all people of that color (as if such criteria is what's necessary before paying any of them any heed).

Such logic as would attempt to negate the import of what these men are saying by dismissing them as "4 random black guys" is, I would imagine, as offensive as someone dismissing what you have to say because you are but "1 random [whatever color you are] guy."

So rather than nonchalantly dismiss what they are saying because of their color and relative number, perhaps you could comment instead on the content of their message? << just a thought that came to me as I remember someone yearning for something similar in times past >>

The same place where

edwinwillers said:
black community - turning it into a community of people who expect everything for free

rambot · Nov 2, 2014

praying said:
The same place where

To be fair, that is Edwin Willers speaking for all black people. He's the one saying black people expect everything for free.

The black guys in the video weren't saying that.

[serious] · Nov 2, 2014

[serious];66559294 said:
Sounds to me like black people are still individuals with differing views on issues rather than a monolithic bloc.

YeShallTread said:
"When did that big change in a monolithic voting block come about?"

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not the same...

ChristsSoldier115 · Nov 2, 2014

elliott95 said:
We can all remember how the Arab Spring got started, which was all about small business owners in the ME being subjected to the corrupt practices of the police against businesses, specifically Tunisia.
America is not like that, at this point in time anyway. Opportunities do exist, and in spite of any racism that exists against Muslims or blacks or any number of groups.
One cannot underestimate how corrosive on the very soul of poor people it has been to promise the poor that their opportunity lies with government programs, rather than with their own initiatives.
To state that people are to be responsible for themselves is not to blame the victim, as the black leadership alluded to in the OP often claims it to be. What it is is a statement to divert the eyes of the poor elsewhere, rather than to government programs as their tickets to a better life.

My city on a local level has a place called "life skills" for folks to get either a GED or to finish their diploma. They also teach how to fill out resumes and interview without looking like a idiot, problem is though.. there aren't any jobs around here. People don't want to take the risk and leave for other work around here. I do not know why. The big "jobs" are working at a crappy furniture factory or a plastics factory. This was a steel mill town and guess what happened to those? Gone. People are afraid to leave because they think it is the same everywhere. Its like a job market zombie apocalypse or something. The only other jobs are fast food joints which do not pay enough to survive.

YeShallTread · Nov 3, 2014

[serious];66566904 said:
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not the same...

Serious(ly) ?

GQ Chris · Nov 3, 2014

Man, this is a great video.

brewmama · Nov 3, 2014

Here's another voice agreeing:

Articles: Poverty In The Black Community Is The Result of Culture Not Racism

http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/06/why_black_americans_should_vote_republican.html

Creech · Nov 3, 2014

EdwinWillers said:
There is a degree of truth in this statement - but one needs to recognize what that degree is.

We can say (and I do, frequently) that we are responsible (in part) for the mess that is our government today - for our inattention, our impassivity, for being too concerned with other issues, etc. etc. etc. etc.

But there is another side of the coin that strictly blaming ourselves, or the community for its leadership doesn't address - one that directly involves the leaders themselves, one that ignores the leader's role.

Blaming the community (only) for its leaders is tantamount to blaming the victims of those leaders - while ignoring what the leaders have done/are doing; and I think that's wrong, because ignoring the role that the leaders play (regardless how they came into their roles as leaders) fundamentally absolves them of all responsibility for their actions - placing the whole of the blame on the victims.

I think the leaders of the black community are products of that failed community as well. I truly believe their leaders reflect most of the ideas and values of that community.

I don't think any effective change at all will come from inside of that community. Positive change would have to be imposed on the black community as a whole.

Black men telling it like it is

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