Why I am not an atheist

dysert

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  1. Stuff exists. For stuff to exist now, it must have always existed, or it sprang from nothingness.
    • It can’t have always existed, or it would have long ago degenerated into energy (matter is not eternal).
    • Something can’t come from nothing.
  2. Life exists. After somehow getting over the fact that stuff exists, it’s remarkable that life exists. According to some Big Bang proponents, what resulted from the BB was a bunch of low-numbered elements. Through natural processes (where did they come from?), these elements combined to form high-numbered elements, and eventually molecules combined to form things like rocks and other non-living things. Non-life cannot suddenly produce life, yet an atheist would have you believe that we evidently evolved from rocks.
  3. Life is complex. Consider the lowly caterpillar. When the time is right, it forms a cocoon and soon develops into a butterfly. An atheist would have you believe that some caterpillars had mutated genes that allowed them to form cocoons (never mind how they knew they were better off forming cocoons). These caterpillars out-survived non-cocoon caterpillars so through purely naturalistic means we have the caterpillar becoming a butterfly (after millions of years of evolution, of course).
  4. The universe is fine-tuned for our existence. There are so many things that could be mentioned (and many more that I don’t even know about), but consider the many natural laws, the distance the earth is from the sun, the size of the sun, the composition of earth’s atmosphere, the abundance of life-supporting material, etc. All these things – and many more – had to be just right in order for life to exist. The odds of all this happening by chance are so small as to be laughable.
Even while atheists acknowledge not knowing certain things, they deride Christians for holding to a “God of the gaps” philosophy. But that’s not quite true. The Bible says that, “In the beginning, God created”. There are gaps that atheists shrug off, but there are no gaps where Christianity is concerned. It takes much more blind faith to be an atheist than to be a Christian, and I personally don’t have that much blind faith.
 

Strathos

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Seriously though, very few atheists assert that gods do not exist. The closest I personally come to that is the fact that I highly doubt that should deities be real that any existing religion describes them accurately.

I know some that say gods can't exist because no one has adequately defined them to their satisfaction
 
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bhsmte

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I know some that say gods can't exist because no one has adequately defined them to their satisfaction

The group of atheists you mention are more than offset by Christians who claim atheists can not have morals, are being led by evil, are mad at God, and there is zero chance they are wrong about their belief in a God.

Goofballs on both sides of the argument here.
 
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Lord Emsworth

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Even while atheists acknowledge not knowing certain things, they deride Christians for holding to a “God of the gaps” philosophy.

Technically not true. God of the Gaps are called what they are: Gods of the Gaps.

Being a Christian or not does not necessiate God of the Gaps thinking.


But that’s not quite true. The Bible says that, “In the beginning, God created”.

That is not an explanation of any kind. It is an illusion of an explanation.
 
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Lord Emsworth

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I think this might belong more in philosophy. Also, being an agnostic atheist such as myself takes about the least amount of faith a person can have. I don't believe in any gods, and I am openly unsure if any exist.

Why? You have seen the arguments.
 
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Davian

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1]Stuff exists. For stuff to exist now, it must have always existed, or it sprang from nothingness.
  • It can’t have always existed, or it would have long ago degenerated into energy (matter is not eternal).
  • Something can’t come from nothing.
Or c) we don't know.
2]Life exists. After somehow getting over the fact that stuff exists, it’s remarkable that life exists. According to some Big Bang proponents, what resulted from the BB was a bunch of low-numbered elements. Through natural processes (where did they come from?), these elements combined to form high-numbered elements, and eventually molecules combined to form things like rocks and other non-living things. Non-life cannot suddenly produce life, yet an atheist would have you believe that we evidently evolved from rocks.
No, atheism is a theistic position, a disbelief in gods. If you were looking for a scientific opinion on the state of the science of abiogenesis, along with some good university entry-level courses, just ask.
3]Life is complex. Consider the lowly caterpillar. When the time is right, it forms a cocoon and soon develops into a butterfly. An atheist would have you believe that some caterpillars had mutated genes that allowed them to form cocoons (never mind how they knew they were better off forming cocoons). These caterpillars out-survived non-cocoon caterpillars so through purely naturalistic means we have the caterpillar becoming a butterfly (after millions of years of evolution, of course).
What other means do we have as a scientific explanation, other than naturalistic? It is the only horse in the race.
4]The universe is fine-tuned for our existence. There are so many things that could be mentioned (and many more that I don’t even know about), but consider the many natural laws, the distance the earth is from the sun, the size of the sun, the composition of earth’s atmosphere, the abundance of life-supporting material, etc. All these things – and many more – had to be just right in order for life to exist. The odds of all this happening by chance are so small as to be laughable.
[/list]
Show your math. (no one ever does)
Even while atheists acknowledge not knowing certain things, they deride Christians for holding to a “God of the gaps” philosophy.
Is that not what you have just presented, above?
But that’s not quite true. The Bible says that, “In the beginning, God created”.
What take anything the bible says at face value?
There are gaps that atheists shrug off, but there are no gaps where Christianity is concerned.
Atheism is a theistic position, a disbelief in gods, so there are no gaps for the atheist.

Now, for the biologist that wants to stuff the gaps with gods, they are free to do so. What that gains them in explanatory power appears to be zero. Worse, it kills curiosity.
It takes much more blind faith to be an atheist than to be a Christian, and I personally don’t have that much blind faith.
Atheism is a theistic position, a disbelief in gods, it is not a truth statement.

Perhaps if you knew what an atheist was, you might reconsider. After all, why be a Christian?
 
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essentialsaltes

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Why didn't you ask some of these questions in your question thread? It's almost as if you want to make strawmen of people who have different views from yours.

It can’t have always existed, or it would have long ago degenerated into energy (matter is not eternal).

Matter is already energy. That's what E = mc^2 means. Anything that has mass has energy. Anything that has energy has mass.

According to some Big Bang proponents, what resulted from the BB was a bunch of low-numbered elements. Through natural processes (where did they come from?)

From nature, obviously.

Even while atheists acknowledge not knowing certain things, they deride Christians for holding to a “God of the gaps” philosophy.

Absolutely. That's the whole point. Atheists are honest enough to say, "I don't know." But theists brazenly assert, the answer to that question is Splunge. An explanation that explains nothing.
 
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Lord Emsworth

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I respectfully disagree.

I tend to think that explaining things is a wee bit harder than that. It's actually really tough.

You, on the other hand, appear to have a very sketchy understanding of the things that you seek to explain; but at least it is something. You have no understanding of the things that you purport to use as explanations, i.e. God and creation.


You have nothing to offer. But you act as if, you know, ...
 
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dysert

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dysert said:
  1. Stuff exists. For stuff to exist now, it must have always existed, or it sprang from nothingness.
    • It can’t have always existed, or it would have long ago degenerated into energy (matter is not eternal).
    • Something can’t come from nothing.

Or c) we don't know.
I realize you may not know, but that doesn't change your options. It's either one or the other.
dysert said:
  • 2. Life exists.
Davian said:
No, atheism is a theistic position, a disbelief in gods. If you were looking for a scientific opinion on the state of the science of abiogenesis, along with some good university entry-level courses, just ask.
Thanks, but I'm not interested any more. (I used to be, but no longer.)
dysert said:
  • 3. Life is complex.

Davian said:
What other means do we have as a scientific explanation, other than naturalistic? It is the only horse in the race.
Supernaturalism is the other horse.

dysert said:
  • 4. The universe is fine-tuned for our existence.
Davian said:
Show your math. (no one ever does)
I refer you to Bob Ross's books. He's an astrophysicist who does show his work.
dysert said:
But that’s not quite true. The Bible says that, “In the beginning, God created”.

Davian said:
What take anything the bible says at face value?
Because the Bible has proven to be trustworthy.

Davian said:
Perhaps if you knew what an atheist was, you might reconsider. After all, why be a Christian?
Google defines "atheist" as, "a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods." Are you using the term in some other way?

Why be a Christian? Because God called and I answered.
 
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dysert

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Why didn't you ask some of these questions in your question thread? It's almost as if you want to make strawmen of people who have different views from yours.
Different threads, different purposes. In my question thread I wanted to find out what atheists believe about certain things. In this thread I want to tell people why I'm not an atheist.

essentialsaltes said:
Matter is already energy. That's what E = mc^2 means. Anything that has mass has energy. Anything that has energy has mass.
But matter doesn't remain in its material form forever. eventually it dematerializes.

essentialsaltes said:
Absolutely. That's the whole point. Atheists are honest enough to say, "I don't know." But theists brazenly assert, the answer to that question is Splunge. An explanation that explains nothing.
I can honestly say, "I don't know -- but I believe such and such." I don't think that's being brazen.
 
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dysert

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I tend to think that explaining things is a wee bit harder than that. It's actually really tough.

You, on the other hand, appear to have a very sketchy understanding of the things that you seek to explain; but at least it is something. You have no understanding of the things that you purport to use as explanations, i.e. God and creation.


You have nothing to offer. But you act as if, you know, ...
Granted my delivery may be lacking, but I think I have a pretty good understanding of God and His creation. (Not a scientific understanding, obviously, but a theological one.)
 
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