The End Time King of Judah

Douggg said:

No you haven't. It is evident in your posts.

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Doug, you shouldn't insinuate anyone is lying to you on no evidence. I believe that is called, bearing false witness, which is a no-no.
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Douggg said:

Provide your analysis of the crowns/no crowns on the heads and the horns of Revelation 13, 12, 17 explaining the differences in each chapter.

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Doug, with all due respect, your interpretation of the Revelation makes absolutely no sense.
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Douggg said:

And incorporating an analysis of the three different expressions of time, 1260 days, 42 months, time times half times, why they are different.

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LOL! Now I am convinced you have been reading too much futurist literature, and not enough of the King James.


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Rev20 said:

Doug, you shouldn't insinuate anyone is lying to you on no evidence. I believe that is called, bearing false witness, which is a no-no.

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lying is intentionally misrepresenting the truth. I didn't say you did or did not intentionally misrepresent the truth. I did say that you are wrong in your statement... and to present, you have yet to provide a copy and paste of the passage of Isaiah answering any question in Isaiah 66, as you claimed.

Why don't you just do the copy and paste of the verses in Isaiah 66 relevant to verses 7 and 8 of Isaiah answering any questions?

Stop stonewalling.

Biblewriter said in post 377:

I do not agree with you on the mission of the Antichrist. He indeed will be the king during Daniel's seventieth week. But he will claim the be the great Messiah sent by God.

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"Anti"-Christ can simply refer to anyone who is "against" the true Christ, as in any "opponent of the Messiah" (Strong's Greek Dictionary, Word #500: antichristos), as in anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:3) has been working since the 1st century AD (2 Thessalonians 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 John 2:18; 2 John 1:7).

Note that nothing requires that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will ever claim to be the Messiah/Christ. For his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) could be the false Christ (i.e. the "Lucifer" Christ, and not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 John 2:22) during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

But none of this means that there won't also be multiple, human false Christs who will arise during the tribulation (Matthew 24:24), including one who will be an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the tribulation, the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a), promising this false Messiah and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers that they can keep for at least 7 years (Daniel 9:27a) a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

Biblewriter said in post 377:

Jesus said of him that "I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive." (John 5:43)

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Note that nothing requires that John 5:43b refers to the Antichrist, instead of to an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" whom the Antichrist will "cut" a 7-year peace treaty with (Daniel 9:26a,27a), after the Antichrist defeats him and his followers (Daniel 11:22-23a).

Anyone who receives the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") can never be saved (Revelation 14:9-11), whereas there will be Jews who will be saved after the time of the Antichrist, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Romans 11:26, Zechariah 12:10-14). Therefore, not all Jews will receive the Antichrist. They could survive his reign by hiding from him. And those in Jerusalem could be protected from him by the 2 witnesses (Revelation 11:3,5).

Biblewriter said in post 377:

The end time scenario presented in the scriptures all centers on Judah, not on Israel.

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Note that Jews include individuals from tribes of Israel other than Judah. For Paul is truly a Jew (Acts 22:3), and he is of the tribe of Benjamin (Romans 11:1). Indeed, Jews include individuals from all 12 of Israel's tribes, for there are no lost tribes, insofar as the 10 northern tribes weren't entirely lost to history. In 722 BC, the northern kingdom of Israel fell and its individuals were taken into captivity into Assyria (2 Kings 18:11), never to return to the land of Israel. They and their descendants were lost to history. But the 10 northern tribes in themselves weren't lost to history.

For some 200 years before the captivity of the northern kingdom, when it first become idolatrous, some individuals from all 10 of the northern tribes left the northern kingdom to become part of the southern kingdom of Judah (2 Chronicles 11:16-17), and so by definition they all became Jews. Also, some individuals from the 10 northern tribes remained in the land of Israel even after its defeat by Assyria, and some of them went to Judah at the time of Hezekiah (2 Chronicles 30). It is for these reasons that later the Jews who returned from the Babylonian Captivity could be referred to as "all Israel" (Ezra 2:70, Ezra 6:17, Ezra 8:25,35, Ezra 10:5, Nehemiah 7:73, Nehemiah 12:47), and why the Jews living in the 1st century AD could be referred to as including all 12 tribes (Acts 26:7, James 1:1, Acts 2:36,22), and why at that time Anna could be said to be of the northern tribe of Asher (Luke 2:36), one of the so-called "lost" tribes.

So the people alive today who are descended genetically from a 1st century AD Jew would include individuals from all 12 tribes. Some of these descendants could know that they are Jews because their individual ancestors over the last 2,000 years kept their Jewish identity and didn't intermarry with Gentiles. But others of these descendants could know themselves only as Gentiles because their individual ancestors over the last 2,000 years eventually abandoned their Jewish identity and intermarried freely with Gentiles, to the point where their descendants alive today are almost entirely Gentile genetically. Similarly, regarding the individuals of the northern kingdom of Israel who were lost to history at its captivity: over the past 2,700 years, their descendants must have eventually abandoned their Israelite identity and freely intermarried with Gentiles, to the point where their descendants alive today would know themselves only as Gentiles, and would be almost entirely Gentile genetically.

Also, while God knows which people alive today are descended from one of the 12 sons of Jacob/Israel from whom the 12 genetic tribes arose (Genesis 49:28), nonelect Israelites/Jews aren't considered by God to be truly Israel (Romans 9:6-11) or truly Jews (Revelation 2:9b, Revelation 3:9), or God's children or Abraham's children, but the children of the devil (John 8:39-47), just as all the nonelect, no matter whether they are Jews or Gentiles, are considered by God to be the children of the devil (Matthew 13:38-39).

Some genetic Israelites are believers, and so are members of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6) and Israel at the same time, just as, for example, the genetic Jew Paul the apostle (Acts 22:3) is a member of the church and Israel at the same time (Romans 11:1). And some still-living, non-believing genetic Israelites are still considered by God to be Israel insofar as they are elect (Romans 11:25,28). All the still-living, elect, non-believing genetic Israelites who don't become believers before Jesus' 2nd coming will become believers (and so will become members of the church: cf. Ephesians 4:4-6) at the 2nd coming (Romans 11:26), when they will see the returned Jesus in person (Zechariah 12:10-14). But even though all those still-living, elect, genetic Israelites will eventually become believers and be saved, they will be only a remnant of all genetic Israelites (Romans 9:27), most of whom will never be saved, just as most of humanity in general, both Jews and Gentiles, will never be saved (Matthew 7:14, Matthew 22:14).

Also, the 12 tribes of Israel aren't countries or regions (as is sometimes claimed), but consist of individuals who can be living in any country or region. Otherwise, one's tribe would change whenever one moved from one country or region to another. Also, nothing requires that any of the nominally-Christian nations are descended from any of the ancient 12 tribes of Israel, instead of them all simply being Gentile nations. For Christians come from every nation on the earth (Revelation 5:9b), and only a remnant of genetic Israel gets saved (Romans 9:27), just as only a remnant of humanity as a whole gets saved (Matthew 7:14, Matthew 22:14). Also, the entire church throughout the world is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12).

Douggg said in post 378:

If you look at Ezekiel 38 and 39, Gog and Magog invasion, you will find the term used is Israel, not Judah.

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That's right, but note that the Gog/Magog attack on Israel (Ezekiel chapters 38-39) won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), when there will be no defensive walls or fear of attack in Israel whatsoever (Ezekiel 38:11). This is the exact opposite of today's situation, when Israel is filled with very high defensive walls and is in constant fear of attack. At the beginning of the millennium, all present-day weapons of war throughout the world will be destroyed and they won't be allowed to be remade during the millennium (Micah 4:3-4). That Is why after the millennium, the Gog/Magog armies will employ only rudimentary, wooden weapons like bows and arrows, spears, shields, and clubs (Ezekiel 39:9), which, after the defeat of the Gog/Magog armies, will be able to be used as convenient firewood by the people living in Israel at that time, instead of them having to go out and collect or cut down firewood from the forest (Ezekiel 39:10).

The Gog in Revelation 20:8 is the same as in Ezekiel chapters 38-39: an individual human whose personal name is "Gog" (Ezekiel 38:3). He will be the chief leader of a future country which will form somewhere north of Israel (Ezekiel 39:2, Ezekiel 38:15), and which will be called "Magog" (Ezekiel 38:2). It will include at least 2 major cities and/or tribes which will be called "Meshech" and "Tubal" (Ezekiel 38:2). This country could come into existence during the millennium. Gog could be born near the end of the millennium, and he will be killed and buried at the end of the Gog/Magog event (Ezekiel 39:11).

Both accounts of the event show that the Gog/Magog armies will ultimately be completely defeated by miraculous fire from heaven (Ezekiel 38:22, Revelation 20:9). While the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) will occur subsequent to the Gog/Magog event (Revelation 20:7-15), nothing requires (as is sometimes claimed) that the great white throne judgment has to happen immediately after that event. For there will be at least 7 years (Ezekiel 39:9b) between the end of that event and the great white throne judgment.

Also, the Gog/Magog attack won't have to (as is sometimes claimed) involve only the nations listed in Ezekiel chapters 38-39. Those nations could be just a sampling. For the "nations" (ethnos), or peoples, who will be involved in the Gog/Magog attack will come from all over the earth (Revelation 20:8). They will still be physically part of Jesus' worldwide kingdom, still legally under his rule, just as they had been during the preceding millennium (Psalms 72:8-11, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 2). But after the millennium, they will be deceived by Satan into committing the attack (Revelation 20:7-10).

Also, while the Gog/Magog attack on Israel won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Israel could suffer a different attack before the millennium, at the start of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which attack could result in Israel's total defeat and occupation (Daniel 11:15-17).

And Jerusalem could be attacked and totally defeated in the future at least 3 times before the millennium: once near the start of the future tribulation (Daniel 11:22), then again mid-tribulation (Daniel 11:31), and then at the tribulation's end (Daniel 11:45), right before Jesus' 2nd coming and the start of the millennium (Zechariah 14:2-21).

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Douggg said in post 385:

The twelve stars in Revelation 12 at the time of the child's birth, are the twelve tribes present in the land. The travailing in birth of Jesus, is the slaughter of all those new born by Herod.

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Note that in Revelation 12:5, the "man child" isn't Jesus, for Revelation 12:5 isn't about past things, but is part of the "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b). Revelation chapters 11-14 show from 4 different angles what will happen right before the start and during the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 14:9-13), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

Regarding Revelation 12:5 saying "who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron": Along with Jesus (Revelation 19:15, Psalms 2:9), the whole obedient church will rule the nations with a rod of iron (Revelation 2:26-29) on the earth (Revelation 5:10) during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6). Before the millennium, during the tribulation, at its midpoint, the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church will be caught up physically to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4,5, Textus Receptus) as the "man child" (Revelation 12:5-6), and as the firstfruits of the church (Revelation 14:4), in the sense of its best part (cf. Numbers 18:12).

Douggg said in post 385:

The twelve stars in Revelation 12 at the time of the child's birth, are the twelve tribes present in the land.

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The woman in Revelation 12 represents the church (which is Israel: Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). She is clothed with the sun (Revelation 12:1) of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the church clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8). The moon under her feet (Revelation 12:1) represents Satan under her feet (Romans 16:20) as she overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). The crown of 12 stars on her head (Revelation 12:1) represents the 12 apostles (of Matthew 10:2-4, Acts 1:16-26), who have been placed over the church (1 Corinthians 12:28).

Her giving birth to the "man child", and his being caught up to the throne of God (Revelation 12:5) immediately before she flees into the wilderness for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6), represents the future, mid-tribulation catching up of the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4,5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11).

Her fleeing into and remaining in a protected wilderness place for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6,14) represents those in the church who will flee into and remain in divinely-protected wilderness places during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

The remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17) represents those in the church during that time who won't flee into wilderness places, but will remain in the cities, and will be persecuted in every nation, imprisoned, and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, Genesis 37:9-10 isn't (as is sometimes claimed) being referred to in Revelation 12:1. For in Revelation 12:1, the church/Israel isn't clothed with the man Jacob (Genesis 37:9-10), but with the sun of righteousness (Malachi 4:2), through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the church/Israel clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8, cf. also Revelation 21:2,9,12). Also, the church/Israel doesn't have the woman Rachel under her feet (Genesis 37:9-10), but Satan (Romans 16:20), as the church/Israel overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the church/Israel doesn't have Jacob's 12 sons placed over her (Genesis 37:9-10), but the 12 apostles (1 Corinthians 12:28, Matthew 10:2, Acts 1:26), each one of whom will rule over one of her 12 tribes (Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).

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Douggg said in post 399:

Provide your analysis of the crowns/no crowns on the heads and the horns of Revelation 13, 12, 17 explaining the differences in each chapter.

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Note that the beast in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1-2, Revelation 17:3) is a different entity than Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:3,9). For the beast and the dragon are shown to be separate in Revelation 13:2,4, Revelation 16:13, and Revelation 19:20 to 20:3. Also, Satan has his crowns on his 7 heads (Revelation 12:3,9), while the beast has its crowns on its 10 horns (Revelation 13:1).

In Revelation 12:3, the 7 heads are Satan's literal heads in his true, serpentine-dragon form (Revelation 12:9), while the 7 heads of the symbolic leopard-like beast in Revelation 13:1-2 and Revelation 17:3 are the symbolic heads of the kingdom of Satan as he has made it in his 7-headed image down through the ages, during 7 consecutive empires (Revelation 17:9-10).

Douggg said in post 399:

And incorporating an analysis of the three different expressions of time, 1260 days, 42 months, time times half times, why they are different.

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Regarding the 42 months, 1,260 days, and "a time, and times, and half a time", they are all the same time period in the prophecies of Revelation 13:5, Revelation 11:2-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Daniel 7:25, and Daniel 12:7. They will be 1,260 literal days, just as, for example, the 3 days in the fulfilled prophecies of Luke 9:22 and Luke 18:33 were literal days, and the 3 days in the fulfilled prophecies of Genesis 40:13 and Genesis 40:19 were literal days, and the 70 years in the fulfilled prophecy of Jeremiah 25:11-12 (Daniel 9:2) were literal years (Zechariah 7:5).

The literal 1,260-day time period will be the time of the Antichrist's Luciferian/Satanic worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled, not even during a past time period of 1,260 years, as historicism mistakenly claims. But these details must be fulfilled (Revelation 1:1). So they will be fulfilled in our future, after the also-never-fulfilled details of Revelation chapters 6 to 10 are fulfilled in our future.

Douggg said:

lying is intentionally misrepresenting the truth. I didn't say you did or did not intentionally misrepresent the truth. I did say that you are wrong in your statement... and to present, you have yet to provide a copy and paste of the passage of Isaiah answering any question in Isaiah 66, as you claimed. Why don't you just do the copy and paste of the verses in Isaiah 66 relevant to verses 7 and 8 of Isaiah answering any questions? Stop stonewalling.

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I did, Doug. You have either refused to read what I wrote, or you are reading something into what I wrote.

But just so there is no misunderstanding, did you claim that Zion brought forth her children before she travailed in pain?


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Biblewriter said:

The error of this allegation has already been demonstrated in the thread titled "The True Meaning of Romans 9-11"

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Biblewriter, everything you write is conjecture based on a faulty hermeneutic that the old testament prophecies can be taken literally. If you really believed that you would be resigned to the fact that everyone in the Old Testament rode horses and used the spear and bow and arrow as weapons.


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Biblewriter said:

The king of revived Judah, which is now called Israel, is first seen in Daniel 11:36-40.

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Trying to follow here and Im very interested...

So the end time King of Judah is the same person as this verse is talking about?

Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.


Ive never actually heard this before I don't believe..

But the literalist does have to restart the Levitical system all over again (shattering the book of Hebrews) so that the end of Zech can be "true."

Interplanner said:

But the literalist does have to restart the Levitical system all over again (shattering the book of Hebrews) so that the end of Zech can be "true."

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Any attempt to resume sacrifices by the Jews wont last very long...

Either it lasts the whole millenium
or there is no point in doing it at all
or it is AC doing it so why does it matter that it is done carefully in Zech 14?

Interplanner said:

Either it lasts the whole millenium
or there is no point in doing it at all
or it is AC doing it so why does it matter that it is done carefully in Zech 14?

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When the Jews build their temple, it will be in direct defiance of Christ and his sacrifice.

That's why Christ returns..

Then the Jews will look on the one they pierced, and mourn for him..


Because what they are going to go through for their defiance the world has never seen..

Biblewriter said:

Simply believing what the Bible says is not conjecture.

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So, you believe that future armies will be riding horseback and using primitive weapons? LOL! Let me rephrase your statement in the interest of accuracy:

"Partially believing what the Bible says is conjecture."

There, fixed it.


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Time4Truth said:

When the Jews build their temple, it will be in direct defiance of Christ and his sacrifice.

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I challenge you to link to any Jewish site that they say we (the Jews) are going to rebuild the temple in order to directly defy Jesus and his sacrifice.

You will never understand who the two witnesses are until you understand five things

1. What the two blessings are
2. Who received the two blessings
3. What the two offices are
4. What subdue the earth and have dominion means
5. Understand the two offices( kingship(civil leader) and priesthood) travel down through the generations until they reach the intended two witnesses of the end-times!



First the two blessings are:

1. Israel(Scepter)
2. Jacob(birthright)




Second those two blessings were divided between two sons. Just as the two blessings will be divided between the two witnesses.

1. Judah firstborn from Leah(weak eyes) = "SCEPTRE"
2. Joseph firstborn from Rachael(favorite wife)= "BIRTHRIGHT"





Third the two offices are:

The two offices are shown time after time throughout the word they are:


1. Civil leader(kingship)

2. Priesthood(birthright)






Fourth what it means to subdue the earth and have dominion


Gen 1:28:

King James Bible
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


To subdue the earth and have dominion means to be in charge of the two dominant positions of rulership

1. Kingship(civil leader)
2. Priesthood





Fifth the traveling of the two offices of civil leader and priesthood are seen throughout the bible as Moses(civil leader) and Aaron(high priest)...Joshua (high priest) and Zerubbabel(civil leader)...etc..and will end up with the two witnesses...one the civil leader and the other in charge of the priesthood


JUDAH=FIRSTBORN....MOTHER LEAH...........JOSEPH/EHPRIAM=FIRSTBORN...MOTHER RACHAEL

James Version of Genesis 5:2.

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called "THEIR" name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Eve was always in Adam and Adam was a type of "ISRAEL"(firstborn son)...so when you split an "ISRAEL" something amazing happens....a "JACOB" comes forth which gets the birthright blessing as the pattern of the 2nd to come forth getting the birthright blessing:

1. Eve
2. Issac
3. Jacob
4. Ephraim



Another thing happens when an Israel and Jacob divide as we see with Adam and Eve and the nation Israel splitting into two nations/kingdoms(northern(jacob) and southern(israel). They end up exiled and going through a furnace of affliciton.

...moving on we see God blesses both Adam and Eve and it is a blessing that keeps moving until the end-times and this is the promise that will keep the last two who are going to inherit the promise going....God can send them through a furnace(and he will) but they still have the hope of this promise because the gift and callings of God are without repentance:

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Those two individuals will know who they are because God can do nothing until he reveals his secret to the servants the prophets and who are the two prophets that are his servants....."the two witnesses"

Amos 3:7:
King James Bible
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.


The promise is to subdue the earth and have dominion. There are 2 postions of dominion over the earth. One is Kingship and the other is priesthood

We see the blessing passed down to a man named Jacob whose name is changed to Israel....again an Israel Jacob and we see the split again as he give his Israel(scepter) blessing to his firtsborn from mother leah(Judah) and he gives his Jacob blessing which is the birthright to his firstborn on his wife Racaels side which is Joseph and then it passes to 2nd born Ephraim.


So here it is summed up

Adam = Israel(scepter)
Eve is the split half of that Israel so she is Jacob(birthright)


The blessing moves to a man named Jacob/Israel and he divides it between his two firstborns from different mother Judah getting the(scepter blessing...kings will come from you ) and Joseph getting the "jacob"(birthright) blessing

We see the the scepter(civil leader) blessing and the (birthright blessing priesthood) moving through the bible through Moses(civil leader) and Aaron(high priest)(building the physical tabernacle in the wilderness...then Joshua(high priest) and Zerubbabel(civil leader) building physical temples....the two end-time witnesses will build the spiritual temple/tabernacle and one will be the moses(civil leader) and the other will be the Aaron(high priest)...and the Joshua(high priest) and Zerubbabel(civil leader)...This is why no one can tell who the two witnesses are because those two witnesses are shadowed in the volume of the book...one the priest and one the civil leader until the blessing that is promised in the beginning of the book "subdue the earth and have dominion" comes to fruitation with the two witnesses at the end of the book

Judah(Israel) and Joseph(Jacob)

Joseph is Jacob and will be able to see the other witness Judah but Judah won't be able to see Joseph just as it was in genesis. Judah will do all the plowing and Joseph/Jacob will just break it down into two postions instead of the one Judah will try to make it

Jacob the man of great natural resources.
A. His name means supplanter. Literally heel catcher. Or one who
overcomes by catching another mans heel.


Hosea 10:11:

King James Bible
And Ephraim is as an heifer that is taught, and loveth to tread out the corn; but I passed over upon her fair neck: I will make Ephraim to ride; Judah shall plow, and Jacob shall break his clods.

EPHRAIM THE UNICORN=EVE.......JUDHAH THE LION=ADAM


The nation of Ephraim(northern kingdom is represented by the bullock and the unicorn)
:unibull:


Eve=unicorn/bullock...Ephraim=unicorn/bullock...Jospeh/Ephraim=uniciorn/bullock


messiah ben "JOSEPH" pushes the lost 10 tribes together and then the gathering of the people will be to "SHILOH" the sceptre holder(civil leader) or "messiah ben DAVID/Judah"


Deut 33:


13 And of Joseph he said, Blessed of the Lord be his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath,

14 And for the precious fruits brought forth by the sun, and for the precious things put forth by the moon,

15 And for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the lasting hills,

16 And for the precious things of the earth and fulness thereof, and for the good will of him that dwelt in the bush: let the blessing come upon the head of Joseph, and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren.

17 His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.

Biblewriter said:

Actually, in case you do not remember, I actually believe that they will ride horses and use wooden weapons. The reasons for this are beyond the comprehension of anyone who does not actually believe the prophetic scriptures, so I will not go into it.

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It is much appreciated that you are not going to "go into it," considering all the wild-eyed speculations already cluttering the ministries, airways and religious media, generally. Some even predict an EMT attack will disable all electronics, which may force armies to resort to emergency "horse breeding" operations to fulfill transportation requirements. LOL! (But that would not explain replacing traditional ammunition-based arms with primitive ones, at least not until the massive stockpiles of ammunition are used up.)


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Jon Anon said in post 418:

Those two individuals will know who they are because God can do nothing until he reveals his secret to the servants the prophets and who are the two prophets that are his servants....."the two witnesses"

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In the never-fulfilled Revelation 11:3-12, the 2 witnesses could be literally Moses and Elijah. For the 2 men seen "standing before the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4) at the transfiguration were Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:3). And in Revelation 11:4, the 2 "olive trees" refer back to the 2 men who were already standing by the Lord by the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zechariah 4:11,14), which was subsequent to the times of Moses and Elijah.

Moses and Elijah could come down from heaven in their mortal bodies at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as they came down at the transfiguration. Also, the plagues which the 2 witnesses will cause (Revelation 11:6,5) will match plagues which Moses and Elijah caused in Old Testament times (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20; 2 Kings 1:10-14).

Elijah never died, but was taken physically into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b). And Michael the archangel retrieved Moses' dead body from Satan (Jude 1:9). Michael could have then taken Moses' body into heaven, where it could have been resuscitated back to mortal life, like, for example, how Lazarus' dead body was resuscitated back to mortal life (John 12:1). This would explain how both Moses and Elijah could appear alive at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

The 2 witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the future, literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b,3,6) of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That is why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the 2 witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues which they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the tribulation's 2nd woe/6th trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). They will be taken up to heaven before the tribulation's 7th trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).

They may not be witnesses in the sense of evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8). For the original Greek word (martus: G3144) translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can also refer to those who witness against people and bring punishment against them (Acts 7:58). The reason that there will be 2 witnesses (Revelation 11:3) who will bring plagues to torment the unrepentant world (Revelation 11:6,10b) would be because 2 witnesses are required to bring judgment against people (1 Timothy 5:19). At the same time, the 2 "witnesses" could be called that because both of them will be martyred (Revelation 11:7-9). For the same original Greek word translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can refer to "martyrs" (Revelation 17:6).