Both my kids married into Chruch of Christ familys

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Tinker Grey

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As I understand their doctrines, they are christians.

What is more disturbing to me is that most of us are considered by them to be not christian.

It seems to me that anyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God and that salvation is through him, that one is a Christian -- whether or not they think I am one.

God bless,
Tinker
 
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Evangelion

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I think it's important to draw a distinction between the Church of Christ (formerly "Campbellites") and the International Church of Christ (which is very different to the CoC.)

I have no personal experience with the ICOC, but I do have CoC friends, and I find that they are very well versed in the Scriptures. They reject Sola Fide, and insist that baptism is essential for salvation. They also believe that it is wrong to use musical intruments as a part of church worship.

They are definitely Christians.
 
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mellymell

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Well, I've done QUITE a bit of study into the Church of Christ, formerly Cambellites, formerly Disciples of Christ (until they formally split in the early 1900s).

Click the link below to read my study on the subject. I did this study because I have a brother who married a Chuch of Christ girl and now he belongs to them.... Please pray for him because as you'll see in my study, I classify them as a cult of Christianity.

http://www.newrev.net/biblestudies/rdandc/churchofchrist.html

And PLEASE let me know what you think about my findings.
God bless!


Have removed your personal e-mail address as it breaks Rule 3 (no spamming). No personal imformation is allowed to be posted publicly. Members can contact you by e-mail through the profile page.
 
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edpobre

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Originally posted by Victoria
I am having a hard time agreeing with how they think. They say they are Christains. I am wondering. Any thoughts on there doctrine?

You have NOTHING to worry about the Campbellite Church of Christ. They are as "Christian" as Catholics and Protestants are. They also adhere to the Trinity doctrine and the Deity of Jesus which this forum considers the SOLE basis for calling one a "Christian."

Ed
 
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mellymell

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I disagree, unfortunately. She does have something to worry and pray about. Go to the link I posted above and read the information. The churches of Christ are exclusionists. They believe that they alone have revived the first day church and therefore, they are the only true church. Anyone and everyone else is worshipping unjustly and are hence, unsaved and going to hell.

This is extremely cultic behavior because they have a way of turning people's minds from even HEARING truth from others because they're taught that everyone not Church of Christ is trying to turn them away from the one true faith.

I implore you, read the information! It'll help shed light on the subject because there's a lot about their history that EVEN THE CHURCH OF CHRIST MEMBERS don't realize.
 
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edpobre

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Originally posted by mellymell
I disagree, unfortunately. She does have something to worry and pray about. Go to the link I posted above and read the information. The churches of Christ are exclusionists. They believe that they alone have revived the first day church and therefore, they are the only true church. Anyone and everyone else is worshipping unjustly and are hence, unsaved and going to hell.

This is extremely cultic behavior because they have a way of turning people's minds from even HEARING truth from others because they're taught that everyone not Church of Christ is trying to turn them away from the one true faith.

I implore you, read the information! It'll help shed light on the subject because there's a lot about their history that EVEN THE CHURCH OF CHRIST MEMBERS don't realize.

I am NOT a Campbellite Church of Christ but I don't see them as a cult because of their claim of exclusivity. In fact, compared to other Protestant denominations, I admire them because of their conviction in something they believe in no matter how wrong.

Now, IF they are TRULY the ONLY true Church of Christ, they should NOT be afraid to face criticism and they should be able to show scripture to support their doctrines.

As far as their being the TRUE church of Christ and their being TRUE Christians, I dare say that they are NOT either! Thus, going from a Baptist to a Campbellite Church of Christ does NOT make any DIFFERENCE.

Ed
 
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I think you should rejoice that both your children married Christians. No group is perfect and certainly the Churches of Christ have had their fair share of self-inflicted trouble. The International Church of Christ, however, is dangerous and has been banned from the Univeristy I attended (UCSD.) You should find out if this is the group your children married into.

Ignore those on this site who encourage hate any group and above all---keep praying for your children. Just because they married Christians doesn't mean the battle is over. Satan loves to destroy marriages.
 
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InspectorVol

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Quote"I disagree, unfortunately. She does have something to worry and pray about. Go to the link I posted above and read the information. The churches of Christ are exclusionists. They believe that they alone have revived the first day church and therefore, they are the only true church. Anyone and everyone else is worshipping unjustly and are hence, unsaved and going to hell.
This is extremely cultic behavior because they have a way of turning people's minds from even HEARING truth from others because they're taught that everyone not Church of Christ is trying to turn them away from the one true faith." Unquote

I just kinda skipped through and hit the high spots on&nbsp;your study&nbsp;of the COC you linked. It was interesting but it is simply your opinion of how the various scriptures you mentioned should be percieved as opposed to how the COC does. Does it make you wrong.....no. Does it make you right.....maybe. It is your opinion which you have every right to. If you haven't guessed already I belong to a COC. I am truly sorry that you have such a low opinion of those of us who attend a COC. I can't change that because you obviously have a history concerning your brother that has made you have the opinion you do.&nbsp; :(&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;I will leave you with one thought and it is prevalent throughout the COC, and that is only God can judge us not man, and we all should be very thankful for that.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :D&nbsp;
 
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BT

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Victoria you said that you were having a hard time believing what they think. Mabey it would be easier for some of us who haven't heard about this group if you told us what is was that you are having trouble with. Then we can get into the scriptures.

*But becareful even here, you get a lot of bad information*
 
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mellymell

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InspectorVol said this
I just kinda skipped through and hit the high spots on&nbsp;your study&nbsp;of the COC you linked. It was interesting but it is simply your opinion of how the various scriptures you mentioned should be percieved as opposed to how the COC does. Does it make you wrong.....no. Does it make you right.....maybe. It is your opinion which you have every right to. If you haven't guessed already I belong to a COC. I am truly sorry that you have such a low opinion of those of us who attend a COC. I can't change that because you obviously have a history concerning your brother that has made you have the opinion you do.&nbsp; :(&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;I will leave you with one thought and it is prevalent throughout the COC, and that is only God can judge us not man, and we all should be very thankful for that.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; :D&nbsp;

I understand where you're coming from. I also respect your decision to be a part of the churches of Christ, but please allow me to make one additional point in response to your post.

It was interesting but it is simply your opinion of how the vairous scriptures you mentioned should be perceived as opposed to how the COC does.

I'm sure you'd agree that we as people don't always rightly interpret/perceive Scripture. But, your post makes it seem that it's impossible to be sure that you DO interpret them correctly. However, Scripture makes it clear that we CAN be certain. It says that we should "study (or be diligent) to show ourselves approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth."

When you study the Word with diligence and an open mind, asking AND allowing the Holy Spirit to lead you, you CAN come to a proper understanding of His Word, otherwise, it wouldn't serve any practical purpose. God wants us to understand it, and the best way to do so is with prayer and USING SCRIPTURE TO CONFIRM SCRIPTURE. In the study linked to above, I went to great lengths to confirm every point made with Scripture, sometimes multiple references.

With that in mind, it's not as easy to dismiss my conclusions as personal perception. Otherwise, we'd ALWAYS be able to hide behind that excuse and no one would EVER learn anything. No one would ever grow. No one would ever admit that they were wrong about something. We've got to decide that if Scripture is clearly demonstrated and self-validated, we must be willing to change our own beliefs to match that.

I'm not the best teacher or expounder out there, but one thing I do know if that God has gifted me to be able to shed new light on His Word that hasn't always been considered or widely accepted. In order to do that, SCRIPTURE must always be used as the final authority, otherwise, I'm just talking to hear myself speak (or typing to see my words). So, I make it a point to validate every argument, and to anchor any personal opinions behind the phrase: In my opinion...

I encourage you and anyone else reading this article to read it with an open mind and consider the possibility that what you are currently involved in/exposed to may not be God's will for His Body, the Church. Again, this information is Scripturally confirmed multiple times, and any non-biblical refereces are easily confirmed by querying government records as to when the churches of Christ really STARTED, even though they claim to have started on the day of Pentecost.

You said that you briefly scanned through it. Well, take a few minutes out of your day and read it... When scriptures are given, whether quoted or just referenced, look them up yourself and verify It's claims. The Bible doesn't lie and when we use the Bible to confirm our positions, especially when multiple references are used, we ought to be able to say, "I'm wrong and the Bible is right." I'm willing to freely and openly discuss any issues or concerns with anyone concerning the churches of Christ, whether you're a member or not. Just let me know, or feel free to e-mail me through this discussion forum.
 
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Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the COC and ICOC/ICC?

The ICOC has a very bad press: http://www.tolc.org/articles.htm, due to its mind control techniques, including tithing.

Warning: any "church" that imposes mandatory tithing is cultic and ought to be avoided. Tithing was never preached by anyone in the NT, and certainly not for the benefit of the church hierarchy. It is way outside any Christian doctrine, and is one of the first, and one of the most obnoxious, signs of cultic behaviour.
 
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EPHRIAM777

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Victoria said

I am having a hard time agreeing with how they think. They say they are Christains. I am wondering. Any thoughts on there doctrine? [/B]


Eph writes...

Hmm....so let me get this straight....If you agree with what they think...that makes them a Christian in your eyes...and then their OK...?

When was the last time YOU reviewed Mark 9:38:40..?

Soon I hope..!

:pray:
 
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EPHRIAM777

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undead said

Warning: any "church" that imposes mandatory tithing is cultic and ought to be avoided. Tithing was never preached by anyone in the NT, and certainly not for the benefit of the church hierarchy. It is way outside any Christian doctrine, and is one of the first, and one of the most obnoxious, signs of cultic behaviour. [/B]

Eph writes...

Hey not so fast with those "blanket statements" UN.....

Please see what Paul taught in 1 COR 16:1:2...

Notice if you consider yourself a SAINT..""even so do YE"...that means it's a standing order for us too..today..!

Oh and the collection Paul was referring to..??

Please turn in your Bible to..2 CRON 24:6.....Then you can turn to that commandment given to Moses.. EX 30:11:16....(( also reference NEH 10:32 to double check it all ))

Paul in the Corinthian letter gave "orders" to do this for saints...He didn't say "if ya feel like it this week do it"...! The order was for THE saints in the churches of Galatia..with a "even so do YE"..tagged onto it..!

That means that NT ORDER...is still in effect and standing today....if your a Saint of Jesus Christ.. part of his church people..!

Oh...also take a look at GAL 6:6..when you get the chance...ONLY once you've been taught by the Pastor teacher that God sends you ( see Rom 10:14:15 and Eph 4:11:12 for that )...are you then to give to him...AND give willingly..2 COR 9:7..!

It's not Tithing like the OT command...but it isn't sit in the pew...and give nothing either..!

The Gosple message is free to all...but once you've been taught....you should GIVE to the one who taught you to further it's "getting preached" to others...!

...and what IF you don't give after you've been taught...??

Then it shows your not a Christian....!

WHY..?

....because the Spirit of God didn't take hold of you and open your eyes and is not leading you to give so others can learn of Jesus Christ..The message isn't WORTH $$$ anything to you...!

...and when the Holy Spirit IS leading you..??

....IT makes you a Giver...You'll give because the message is worth something and you really DO faith the Lord..and your willing to put your $$$ where your mouth is..to teach others the truth you learned...BTW from someone who also gave to get the Gosple preached to you because they saw worth in the message of Jesus Christ..!

God gave his son...His Son gave his life...and when the Holy spirit is in you... leading you..guiding you...IT makes you a giver..!
 
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EPHRIAM777

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BTW...I'm not a COC..or an ICOC...but right is right...

The entire Protestant movement came about from a REBELLION within the Roman Catholic church...!

Now can anyone teach from the Bible where it's OK to rebell and start your own division within the body..or the church..?

The entire Protestant movement is looked at as a "rebellion of lawless rebels" by the Roman Cath's....!

(( Of course a case could be made that the RCC left sound teaching and the Prod's didn't follow them off the track and into the ditch..but thats another thread ))..!
 
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InspectorVol

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Quote"I'm sure you'd agree that we as people don't always rightly interpret/perceive Scripture. But, your post makes it seem that it's impossible to be sure that you DO interpret them correctly. However, Scripture makes it clear that we CAN be certain. It says that we should "study (or be <I>diligent</I>) to show ourselves approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, <I><B>rightly dividing</B></I> the Word of truth."

When you study the Word with diligence and an open mind, asking AND allowing the Holy Spirit to lead you, you CAN come to a proper understanding of His Word, otherwise, it wouldn't serve any practical purpose. God wants us to understand it, and the best way to do so is with prayer and USING SCRIPTURE TO CONFIRM SCRIPTURE. In the study linked to above, I went to great lengths to confirm every point made with Scripture, sometimes multiple references.

With that in mind, it's not as easy to dismiss my conclusions as personal perception. Otherwise, we'd ALWAYS be able to hide behind that excuse and no one would EVER learn anything. No one would ever grow. No one would ever admit that they were wrong about something. We've got to decide that if Scripture is clearly demonstrated and self-validated, we must be willing to change our own beliefs to match that.

I'm not the best teacher or expounder out there, but one thing I do know if that God has gifted me to be able to shed new light on His Word that hasn't always been considered or widely accepted. In order to do that, SCRIPTURE must always be used as the final authority, otherwise, I'm just talking to hear myself speak (or typing to see my words). So, I make it a point to validate every argument, and to anchor any personal opinions behind the phrase: In my opinion...

I encourage you and anyone else reading this article to read it with an open mind and consider the possibility that what you are currently involved in/exposed to may not be God's will for His Body, the Church. Again, this information is Scripturally confirmed multiple times, and any non-biblical refereces are easily confirmed by querying government records as to when the churches of Christ really STARTED, even though they claim to have started on the day of Pentecost.

You said that you briefly scanned through it. Well, take a few minutes out of your day and read it... When scriptures are given, whether quoted or just referenced, look them up yourself and verify It's claims. The Bible doesn't lie and when we use the Bible to confirm our positions, especially when multiple references are used, we ought to be able to say, "I'm wrong and the Bible is right." I'm willing to freely and openly discuss any issues or concerns with anyone concerning the churches of Christ, whether you're a member or not. Just let me know, or feel free to e-mail me through this discussion forum."Unquote

&nbsp;

Mel: It is obvious that you you are a learned person who put a great deal of time and thought into your position and I respect that. I really don't think anyone can be completely without bias when it comes to interpreting scripture. It is impossible for humans to be completely analytical like a computer when it comes to discerning scripture. People will always lean if only small amount toward a particular doctrine when comparing one to another.

I agree with you that we should be able to say "I'm wrong and the bible is right" but all to often pride is people's downfall in that situation because they are so sure of their position that there is no way "they could be wrong." I know a lot of people don't agree with COC doctrine especially in some areas but I don't let that bother me. To me it seems they are trying to be a stumbling block to poeple like&nbsp;me. Now if when we have bible study and hear a preachers lesson if I don't agree with what he says or what is taught I will get a satisfactory explanation by scripture to support that or I then will have a problem with doctrine. James has a good verse that we had this past week:
<H3>Jas.4</H3>
  1. [<B>17</B>] Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not,<B> to him it is sin</B>.

My personal opinion on how a person should approach his quest for salvation goes like this. People come to God from different denominations, groups, churches, etc. That gets them started on the path. Then it is up to them as you quoted to rightly divide the word of God. In that process if they find where they worship errs from the truth then they need to seek out others that are not in err with the word. I do think ,as of now, that different people from different christian beliefs can be saved if they are genuinely on fire for God and do the good works and&nbsp;exude every appearence of being christlike. That being said I think there are very few of these people&nbsp;around (including me)which leads us back to this
<H3>Matt.7</H3>
  1. [<B>13</B>] Enter ye in at the strait<B> gate</B>: for wide is the<B> gate</B>, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
  2. [<B>14</B>] Because strait is the<B> gate</B>, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it

which you can depend on being the truth.

I would be glad to discuss any COC doctrinal issue with you as best I can. I am not a learned person like yourself but I am willing to&nbsp;try my best. &nbsp;&nbsp;

&nbsp;
 
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BT

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Hey Eph.. good post on tithing!

I think you missed one very important NT concept though...

You see, "tithing" is an OT concept. That's true.. so what we have to figure out is what is the NT concept? Since it's not tithing it's something else...

The NT concept is "stewardship". Bummer for you money hungry types eh.
In the OT you were to give 10% to the Temple. But the NT concept of "stewardship" is that 100% of what we have belongs to God. So we give (some of us) our tithe, in addition to our offerings, and our support of missions, and our helping each other, and our meeting needs..
NOW PEOPLE I'm not saying sign your paycheck over to the church every week, and if you get into a church that is telling you that you should do that.. you might be in a bad church, a cult even. I have a great definition of a cult... I'll look it up when I get home and post it for you..
 
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mellymell

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InspectorVol said this in Post #17

I agree with you that we should be able to say "I'm wrong and the bible is right" but all to often pride is people's downfall in that situation because they are so sure of their position that there is no way "they could be wrong." I know a lot of people don't agree with COC doctrine especially in some areas but I don't let that bother me. To me it seems they are trying to be a stumbling block to poeple like&nbsp;me.

I certainly hope that you don't consider me or the study I did to be a stumbling block. Quite the contrary, it is intended to be a tool toward helping people come to a deeper understanding of Christian truth. I agree that pride has a lot to do with why people don't readily admit when they're wrong; but when all is said and done, that pride will be their downfall and condemnation.

My personal opinion on how a person should approach his quest for salvation goes like this. People come to God from different denominations, groups, churches, etc. That gets them started on the path. Then it is up to them as you quoted to rightly divide the word of God. In that process if they find where they worship errs from the truth then they need to seek out others that are not in err with the word. I do think ,as of now, that different people from different christian beliefs can be saved if they are genuinely on fire for God and do the good works and&nbsp;exude every appearence of being christlike.

But, it sounds like you believe in a works salvation. We are not saved by works. Sure, we should bear fruit, but you're saying that people can only be saved "if they are on fire for God and do the good works..." But, the Bible teaches that we are saved by grace through faith, not by works.

Also, I'm not sure if you know this or not (I assume you do), but COC doctrine teaches that if you don't believe to the churches of Christ, you aren't a part of the true church and therefore aren't saved. So, the fact that you believe that "different people from different Christian beliefs can be saved" shows that you are in disagreement with a fundamental COC belief. And if you believe this, I'm sure there are many other points of COC doctrine that you disagree with. That being said, maybe you should re-evaluate your decision to be a part of that denomination and find a church that goes back to biblical truth, unscathed by personal bias and opinion.

I would be glad to discuss any COC doctrinal issue with you as best I can. I am not a learned person like yourself but I am willing to&nbsp;try my best.

I welcome such a discussion. If there is anything in particular that you'd like to talk about, you have only but to let me know. God bless!

With love :wave:
 
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InspectorVol

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You said:"
I certainly hope that you don't consider me or the study I did to be a stumbling block."

No, I do not. My choice of words may have been lacking in that sentence. I have heard all the "problems with my Church" before so sometimes it just kinda rubs me wrong way sometimes. Not what you did though.

You said:"
But, it sounds like you believe in a works salvation. We are not saved by works. Sure, we should bear fruit, but you're saying that people can only be saved "if they are on fire for God and do the good works..." But, the Bible teaches that we are saved by grace through faith, not by works."

I would have to say you assumed my belief on this matter because I did not say either way. Therein is the very&nbsp;problem of people letting thier bias/tendencies interpreting what someone says be it interpreting something I have written or something written in the bible. (Not to equate anything I could write as being on par with anything written in the bible) Personally we are saved by grace through faith and we show our faith or lack therof&nbsp;through our works/good deeds or lack thereof. If we don't let our faith show through our works then our faith is dead.

You said:"Also, I'm not sure if you know this or not (I assume you do), but COC doctrine teaches that if you don't believe to the churches of Christ, you aren't a part of the true church and therefore aren't saved. So, the fact that you believe that "different people from different Christian beliefs can be saved" shows that you are in disagreement with a fundamental COC belief. And if you believe this, I'm sure there are many other points of COC doctrine that you disagree with. That being said, maybe you should re-evaluate your decision to be a part of that denomination and find a church that goes back to biblical truth, unscathed by personal bias and opinion."&nbsp;

Yes I am aware of the hardline traditional thought of if you aren't COC you wrong. That however in my experience comes from those outside the COC rather than inside it. I&nbsp;have heard sermons on music is wrong, you must be baptized, etc, etc. Now those teachings do say the way we do it is right and is right by the bible. I have never heard a preacher say" baptist are going to hell,catholics are going to hell,etc,etc. They don't agree with them and thats ok because they don't agree with us. What is taught is that God will judge everyone and you best try real hard to be as true to Christ's doctrine as you possibly can. Of course as I'm sure you know our catchphrase so to speak is to take the what the Bible says and what the bible says only without adding to or taking away from it. Which is what you say you are trying to do and that is good. As for my statement"different people from different Christian beliefs can be saved" IMHO this could/can be possible through God's grace which can take care of anything. Now the real question in this is that if you truly believe something to be the truth&nbsp;through diligent study and prayer and yet you find out at the judgement you were in err what is the consequence to that if any?&nbsp;The things&nbsp;that the churches in Revelations were chastized for were not frivilous things but things like sacrificing to idols and adultery,etc. What I would like to know is in the following scripture here is,&nbsp;what are the first works?
<H3>Rev.2</H3>[<B>1</B>] Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
[<B>2</B>] I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
[<B>3</B>] And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
[<B>4</B>] Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
[<B>5</B>] Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.


That I think would be interesting to know. Any ideas?&nbsp;


&nbsp;
 
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