The Restoration of Israel, as Described in the Holy Scriptures

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Biblewriter

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Rev20 said:
Adam Clarke approaches his commentary on Ezekiel 38 primarily with Antiochus in mind, for example:
Verse 2. Chief prince of Meshech and Tubal— These probably mean the auxiliary forces, over whom Antiochus was supreme; they were the Muscovites and Cappadocians.


This is not historically accurate.
 
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Biblewriter

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Rev20 said:
Adam Clarke approaches his commentary on Ezekiel 38 primarily with Antiochus in mind, for example:
Verse 2. Chief prince of Meshech and Tubal— These probably mean the auxiliary forces, over whom Antiochus was supreme; they were the Muscovites and Cappadocians.


This is not historically accurate.​
 
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Interplanner said in post 771:

There is no known gap in the text.

Note that even in partial preterism, there was a gap of decades between the 1st century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a and the 1st century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b. For 1st century AD Jerusalem wasn't destroyed until 70 AD, some decades after the Crucifixion. Also, there will be a gap of about 7 years between the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a and the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b. For the current Jerusalem won't be destroyed until right before and at Jesus' never-fulfilled 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21), about 7 years after the Antichrist "cuts" a 7-year treaty (Daniel 9:26a,27a) with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a) who will be ruling Jerusalem at the start (and then during the first half) of the tribulation.

That is, in Daniel 9:26, the original Hebrew word (karath: H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27). The 1st century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a was at the Crucifixion, when the true Messiah, Jesus, made the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17). The future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a will be when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty, which will be a fulfillment of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and the league in Daniel 11:23, with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Messiah in Jerusalem, after he and his followers are defeated by the Antichrist (Daniel 11:22-23). So the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a can refer to this false Messiah being "cut off" in the sense of being "covenanted", peace-treatied.

This treaty will allow this false Messiah and his followers to keep a 3rd Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least 7 years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least 7 years he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he is (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the 3rd temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

At the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the 2nd coming, there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including the 3rd temple and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall), being broken down so that not one stone will be left on another (Luke 19:44, Matthew 24:2). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4). He will also build a 4th temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the church during the future millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6) as the 2nd temple served for the church in the 1st century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (Revelation 7:15).

Interplanner said in post 771:

And that "real" Christian teaching is their view of Mt 23:39 and Rom 11:26 and almost nothing else.

Regarding Matthew 23:39, note that the preceding verse, Matthew 23:38, refers to the spiritual desolation of Jerusalem (Matthew 23:37) insofar as it rejects Jesus (1 John 5:12b, cf. Galatians 4:25), while Matthew 23:39 refers to the future salvation of the unbelieving, elect Jews who will be living in Jerusalem at Jesus' 2nd coming, when they will see him in person and believe in him (Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:26-29).

Also, Matthew 23:38, like Matthew 27:51, didn't mean that the 2nd Jewish temple in Jerusalem had become spiritually desolate. For it remained holy even after Jesus' death and resurrection. That is why the church continued to worship God there (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17). What the rending of the veil in Matthew 27:51 pictured was the opening of the holiest place in heaven to Christians (Hebrews 10:19-22, Hebrews 9:24), by the abolishing of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-27, Hebrews 10:9b), and by the establishment of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), at the moment that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins (Hebrews 9:15-17, Hebrews 10:19-20, Matthew 27:50-51).

The rending of the veil in Matthew 27:51 didn't mean that God no longer dwelt in the 2nd temple (as in Matthew 23:21). That is why (again) the church continued to worship God in the 2nd temple even after Jesus' death and physical resurrection (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17).
 
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Belly Rumble

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What Jesus means by escaping the Wrath if you watch is "Knowing when to Flee". Revelation 12:13-17 tells us that the Faithful Bible Readers will flee and be in a safe location for the 3 1/2 years of tribulation. This safe location is not in heaven as a spirit. God Bless
 
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Interplanner

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B2 wrote:
Note that even in partial preterism, there was a gap of decades between the 1st century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a and the 1st century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b. For 1st century AD Jerusalem wasn't destroyed until 70 AD, some decades after the Crucifixion.

No B2. Note that S. Wohlberg has demonstrated why this is not the case with 10 mistakes about Dan 9 in his material at White Horse Media. Note that!

B2 wrote:
while Matthew 23:39 refers to the future salvation of the unbelieving, elect Jews who will be living in Jerusalem at Jesus' 2nd coming, when they will see him in person and believe in him (Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:26-29).

Wrong again. It is not a prediction. Yes, it reads like one, but it is a warning. The reason (I hope you know what reasons are) for this is from Lk 13, where this declaration is placed, and Luke colluded with Paul in the assembly of his material. The declaration is made half way through the ministry as a warning about recieving the Gospel Jesus was about to make happen. So when we see it later, it is a warning that this is how a person in that audience comes into belief. They sing Ps 118 about Christ. Or else they won't see the kingdom.
 
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Rev20

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Hippolytus Israel
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If this is the case, and if, as you claim, that 2p2p was never taught in ancient times, then how is it that, sometime between the years 202 and 211 A.D. Hyppolytus wrote:

“For after sixty-two weeks was fulfilled and after Christ has come and the Gospel has been preached in every place, times having been spun out, the end remains one week away, in which Elijah and Enoch shall be present and in its half the abomination of desolation, the Antichrist, shall appear who threatens desolation of the world. After he comes, sacrifice and drink offering, which now in every way is offered by the nations to God, shall be taken away.” (Commentary on Daniel, by Hyppolytus, book 4, 35.3)

And:

“Just as also he spoke to Daniel, “And he shall establish a covenant with many for one week and it will be that in the half of the week he shall take away my sacrifice and drink offering,” so that the one week may be shown as divided into two, after the two witnesses will have preached for three and a half years, the Antichrist will wage war against the saints the remainder of the week and will desolate all the world so that what was spoken may be fulfilled, “And they will give the abomination of desolation one thousand two hundred ninety days. Blessed is he who endures to Christ and reaches the one thousand three hundred thirty-five days!” (Commentary on Daniel, by Hyppolytus, book 4, 50.2)

Biblewriter, I believe Interplanner was referring to the modern notion that somehow Israel and the Church are "separate but equal", such as defined in the doctrine of dual-covenant theology. If that be the case, Hippolytus is not a good reference for you. Hippolytus believed, as is written, that Christ was both Jacob and Israel:

5. But what is meant, says he, in the other passage: "This is God, and there shall none other be accounted of in comparison of Him?" That said he rightly. For in comparison of the Father who shall be accounted of? But he says: "This is our God; there shall none other be accounted of in comparison of Him. He hath found out all the way of knowledge, and hath given it unto Jacob His servant, and to Israel his beloved." He saith well. For who is Jacob His servant, Israel His beloved, but He of whom He crieth, saying, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: hear ye Him?" Having received, then, all knowledge from the Father, the perfect Israel, the true Jacob, afterward did show Himself upon earth, and conversed with men. And who, again, is meant by Israel but a man who sees God? And there is no one who sees God except the Son alone, the perfect man who alone declares the will of the Father. For John also says, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him." And again: "He who came down from heaven testifieth what He hath heard and seen." This, then, is He to whom the Father hath given all knowledge, who did show Himself upon earth, and conversed with men." [Roberts & Donaldson, Hippolytus, Against the Heresy of Noetus, "Ante-Nicene Christian Library Vol 09." T & T Clark, 1869, Sect.5, pp.56-57]

If you want to dispute 2p2p, try to find an early church father who supported dual-covenant theology: that Israel as a race--that Israel for the sole reason of being natural descendants of Abraham--would be restored to the traditional land mentioned in the Bible, and under a separate plan than the one for Christians.

:)
.
 
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Rev20

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B2 wrote:
Note that even in partial preterism, there was a gap of decades between the 1st century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a and the 1st century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26b. For 1st century AD Jerusalem wasn't destroyed until 70 AD, some decades after the Crucifixion.

As a partial preterist, I have to agree somewhat with Bible2 on that particular "gap"; but it is NOT a gap in the 70 weeks. The 70 weeks were completed exactly on schedule, 3 1/2 years after the crucifixion. The time for the desolation was determined (decreed) in addition to the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:26; that is, the destruction of the temple, Jerusalem and other cities by Titus and his armies were "scheduled to occur" (determined or decreed) separately from the seventy weeks. These are a few translations:

"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined." -- Dan 9:26 KJV

"And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed." -- Dan 9:26 ESV (English Standard)

"After those 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the coming prince will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come with a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations are decreed." -- Dan 9:26 HCSB (Holman Christian Standard)

"After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed." -- Dan 9:26 NIV (New International)

"And after threescore and two heptads, yikaret (will be cut off) Moshiach [Yeshayah 53:8], but not for himself [Yeshayah 53:4-6,8]; and the troops of the coming nagid shall destroy the Ir and the Kodesh (Beis Hamikdash, i.e., 70.C.E.); and the end thereof shall come with a flood, and unto the end there shall be war. Desolations are determined." -- Dan 9:26 OJB (Orthodox Jewish Bible)

The Septuagint (LXX) is the only translation that seems to vary, but a close reading reveals it states exactly the same thing: that the desolations were scheduled separately, and are not a part of the 70 weeks:

"And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations." -- Dan 9:26 LXX (Septuagint)

For the record, in the decree for the 70 weeks, no mention is made of the punishment phase:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." -- Dan 9:24 KJV

Therefore, anyone who tries to extend those 70 weeks into the time of the destruction of the city or temple; or into the reign of an imaginary antichrist; or into the future, generally, are adding their own words to the scripture.

:)
.
 
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Rev20

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As a partial preterist, I have to agree somewhat with Bible2 on that particular "gap"; but it is NOT a gap in the 70 weeks. The 70 weeks were completed exactly on schedule, 3 1/2 years after the crucifixion. The time for the desolation was determined (decreed) in addition to the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:26; that is, the destruction of the temple, Jerusalem and other cities by Titus and his armies were "scheduled to occur" (determined or decreed) separately from the seventy weeks. These are a few translations:

"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined." -- Dan 9:26 KJV

"And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed." -- Dan 9:26 ESV (English Standard)

"After those 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the coming prince will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come with a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations are decreed." -- Dan 9:26 HCSB (Holman Christian Standard)

"After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed." -- Dan 9:26 NIV (New International)

"And after threescore and two heptads, yikaret (will be cut off) Moshiach [Yeshayah 53:8], but not for himself [Yeshayah 53:4-6,8]; and the troops of the coming nagid shall destroy the Ir and the Kodesh (Beis Hamikdash, i.e., 70.C.E.); and the end thereof shall come with a flood, and unto the end there shall be war. Desolations are determined." -- Dan 9:26 OJB (Orthodox Jewish Bible)

The Septuagint (LXX) is the only translation that seems to vary, but a close reading reveals it states exactly the same thing: that the desolations were scheduled separately, and are not a part of the 70 weeks:

"And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations." -- Dan 9:26 LXX (Septuagint)

For the record, in the decree for the 70 weeks, no mention is made of the punishment phase:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." -- Dan 9:24 KJV

Therefore, anyone who tries to extend those 70 weeks into the time of the destruction of the city or temple; or into the reign of an imaginary antichrist; or into the future, generally, are adding their own words to the scripture.
.

I had incorrectly listed Biblewriter as the one who made that statement on partial-preterism. It has now been corrected to B2.

:)
.
 
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Interplanner

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I thought there was some support to the last half week being the DofJ because of God delaying such an awful judgement as long as he could. But I have also read S. Wohlberg's 10 Mistakes about Dan 9 at White Horse Media (print and video) and it includes what your saying here: the expression 'desolations are decreed' was meant to separate it from the Messiah's death and accomplishments. And he had several other good points.

In fact, he leaves that topic (DofJ) alone and only covers as far as v27a. He leaves b out of the comments.

The LXX is Greek, so you'd have to be referring to a trans of it, not it as a translation. The English above certainly brings up odd twists, but they are 3rd generation from the Hebrew and may not worth chasign.

You're saying the 70 weeks don't include a "punishment phase" but the two events are linked. What I notice about dan 9 is that the destiny of Israel prayed about from the beginning verses is not resolved in a restored Israel, but in what the Messiah does. He atones for sins and that is the answer to Daniel's intercessory prayer, but this does not stop the nation from being punished. I have a natural explanation for that, but I won't include it here.
 
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iamlamad

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Only 70 weeks were decreed in Daniel 9:24. There was also an additional undetermined time decreed for the desolations in 9:26-27.

It is written that Christ came after the 69th week, which was the beginning of the 70th week. Those who don't do math are easily fooled by those teaching otherwise. So, if you have trouble with math, PAY ATTENTION! :)

It is written that Christ was cut off in the midst of the 70th week (9:26), and that he confirmed the covenant with the children of Israel for the full 70th week (9:27). How did he accomplish that? He sent his disciples for the last half-week of covenant confirmation:
"He that receiveth you (my disciples) receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me." -- Matt 10:40
One of the first acts of the disciples after Christ's ascension was covenant confirmation. This is Peter:
"Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." -- Acts 3:25-26 KJV
And, of course, one of the primary missions of Christ was covenant confirmation, according to Paul:
"Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises [the covenant] made unto the fathers:" -- Rom 15:8 KJV
Therefore, the 70th week was completed when covenant confirmation was completed, as written by Daniel, which was about the time the first Gentile (Cornelius) was allowed into the kingdom in Acts 10.
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We have heard all the dispensational mumbo-jumbo before; but in addition to that, you are adding new words to the book of the Revelation with your 7th-this and 7th-that fantasy. That is not recommended:
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." -- Rev 22:18, 19
:)

"It is written that Christ was cut off in the midst of the 70th week (9:26)" No, it is you adding to the text. It is written that Christ was cut off AFTER 69 weeks. You don't have any authority to change what is written.

If you pay attention, I did not add anything. Did you notice?

Rev. 8:8 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

Rev. 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded:...

Rev, 16:
17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!”

I did not "add" anything. John wrote these words. I understand them. What I did do was tell you that these 7's "clearly mark" the 70th week. In fact, I did not originate this thought: I am telling you as a brother in Christ, God SPOKE to me, and I heard His voice and His words. He said, "you can find the entire 70th week "clearly marked." I have found what He sent me to find, but you cannot believe it.

WHY would God be so interested in the 70th week and me finding it "clearly marked" if it was HISTORY? I don't think He would. The truth is, it is FUTURE and it is VERY CLOSE. That is why God is interested in it.

YOu do remember what Jesus said about the abomination? Let me remind you...

Matthew 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Here is John showing us this event HAPPENING:

Rev. 12
6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

Do you see that 12:6 is the fulfilling of Jesus' warning to flee? In other words, the abomination event was only SECONDS before Rev. 12:6. In fact, John did not see the abomination in the vision, because God did not show it to him. What John saw happen was the 7th trumpet sounding. God will use the 7th trumpet to MARK in heaven when the abomination takes place on earth.

You are mistaken to think this is something from the past. It is very much FUTURE. There was no "man of sin" that entered the temple in Jerusalem and declared that he was God and must be worshipped; then almost instantly turned into the Beast of Rev. 13.

When God makes a prophecy, it is ACCURATE even in detail. It is terrible exegesis to attempt to make much of Revelation history. These events have never happened.

Dan 9
26 “And after the sixty-two weeksMessiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.


Did you just totally miss the word "THEN?" It was God using Daniel to write - that inserted a GAP between the 62 weeks and the 70th.

Did you catch that? WHEN is the "then?" It is AFTER the city and the sanctuary is destroyed. Gap is confirmed by scripture.

LAMAD
 
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iamlamad

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What Jesus means by escaping the Wrath if you watch is "Knowing when to Flee". Revelation 12:13-17 tells us that the Faithful Bible Readers will flee and be in a safe location for the 3 1/2 years of tribulation. This safe location is not in heaven as a spirit. God Bless

Did you just miss the chapter where Paul talks about a resurrection body? The Bride of Christ DOES escape to heaven, but with a BODY.

In case you missed it: Jesus told THOSE IN JUDEA to flee. There is no scripture ANYWHERE telling Christians in USA to flee. If they did, they would be going AGAINST scripture, for the ONLY scripture that will fit then, is that the believers will be OVERCOME. If one then wished to follow scripture, they should SUBMIT to the authorities, TELL them they are a believer, and LOSE their head.

LAMAD
 
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Rev20

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I thought there was some support to the last half week being the DofJ because of God delaying such an awful judgement as long as he could. But I have also read S. Wohlberg's 10 Mistakes about Dan 9 at White Horse Media (print and video) and it includes what your saying here: the expression 'desolations are decreed' was meant to separate it from the Messiah's death and accomplishments. And he had several other good points.

In fact, he leaves that topic (DofJ) alone and only covers as far as v27a. He leaves b out of the comments.

The LXX is Greek, so you'd have to be referring to a trans of it, not it as a translation. The English above certainly brings up odd twists, but they are 3rd generation from the Hebrew and may not worth chasign.

You're saying the 70 weeks don't include a "punishment phase" but the two events are linked. What I notice about dan 9 is that the destiny of Israel prayed about from the beginning verses is not resolved in a restored Israel, but in what the Messiah does. He atones for sins and that is the answer to Daniel's intercessory prayer, but this does not stop the nation from being punished. I have a natural explanation for that, but I won't include it here.

There is no doubt that punishment is planned in Daniel 9. It is simply not part of the 70 weeks. The six items in 9:24 are those things decreed. Apparently the crucifixion and covenant confirmation were necessary to fulfill (some of) them, but not the punishment.

:)
.
 
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Rev20

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"It is written that Christ was cut off in the midst of the 70th week (9:26)" No, it is you adding to the text. It is written that Christ was cut off AFTER 69 weeks. You don't have any authority to change what is written.

I didn't change anything. You did.

What comes "AFTER" 69 weeks? The answer is, the 70th week. Are you denying that?

So Christ arrived in the 70th week, and since there are no other descriptors, we can only assume it to have been at the beginning of the 70th week.

And when was Christ cut off? In the midst (defined as "middle") of the week. If he did not arrive until AFTER 69 WEEKS, he had to have been killed in the middle of the 70th week. There are no other options, short of spiritualizing the scripture, which you have been doing all along.

I realize that simple fact is difficult for those who have had the errors of dispensationalism and futurism driven into their heads since childhood. But the prophecy is rather easy to understand if you leave all those errors behind and resort to interpreting it as plain English.

:)
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Rev20

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Some on here would take issue with Moses himself - he prophesied "a prophet" to the Israelite "church in the wilderness" the GAP in time of which turned even longer than the GAP some argue against now, lol

Danoh, you are talking to yourself again.

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Rev20

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Rev. 8:8 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

Rev. 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded:...

Rev, 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!”

I did not "add" anything. John wrote these words. I understand them. What I did do was tell you that these 7's "clearly mark" the 70th week.

70th week? You have a most vivid imagination.

Iamlamad, it is doubtful I will ever agree with you on anything related to the interpretation of prophesy.

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Bible2

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Belly Rumble said in post 786:

Revelation 12:13-17 tells us that the Faithful Bible Readers will flee and be in a safe location for the 3 1/2 years of tribulation.

That's right, for the woman in Revelation 12 represents the church (which is Israel: Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). She is clothed with the sun (Revelation 12:1) of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the church clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8). The moon under her feet (Revelation 12:1) represents Satan under her feet (Romans 16:20) as she overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). The crown of 12 stars on her head (Revelation 12:1) represents the 12 apostles (of Matthew 10:2-4, Acts 1:16-26), who have been placed over the church (1 Corinthians 12:28).

Her giving birth to the "man child", and his being caught up to the throne of God (Revelation 12:5) immediately before she flees into the wilderness for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6), represents the future, mid-tribulation catching up of the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4,5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11).

Her fleeing into and remaining in a protected wilderness place for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6,14) represents those in the church who will flee into and remain in divinely-protected wilderness places during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

The remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17) represents those in the church during that time who won't flee into wilderness places, but will remain in the cities, and will be persecuted in every nation, imprisoned, and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, Genesis 37:9-10 isn't (as is sometimes claimed) being referred to in Revelation 12:1. For in Revelation 12:1, the church/Israel isn't clothed with the man Jacob (Genesis 37:9-10), but with the sun of righteousness (Malachi 4:2), through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the church/Israel clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8, cf. also Revelation 21:2,9,12). Also, the church/Israel doesn't have the woman Rachel under her feet (Genesis 37:9-10), but Satan (Romans 16:20), as the church/Israel overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the church/Israel doesn't have Jacob's 12 sons placed over her (Genesis 37:9-10), but the 12 apostles (1 Corinthians 12:28, Matthew 10:2, Acts 1:26), each one of whom will rule over one of her 12 tribes (Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).
 
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