priests, pastors and self defense

No, I wouldn't suggest carrying any weapons. That would indicate fear.

People are like dogs. Have faith in Christ, show no fear and you won't be attacked. A smile can be very disarming as well.

EugenSpierer said:

Should a priest or pastor carry a non lethal tool of self defense when in a dangerous neighborhood? By non lethal I mean pepper sparys, fist loading weapons and the like WITH THE INTENTION OF SELF DEFENSE WITHOUT SERIOUS HARM TO THE ATTACKER. A penny for your thoughts...

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Here's my thought: If free will allows another person the option to attack an innocent individual, then I think the would-be victim has the right to self-defense. I don't think faith is unimportant, but I think it also logical to have faith in the misused free will of others.


Take care,

SS

Luke 6:29 If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from anyone who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.

All pastors or clergy should keep this in mind. That means no violence or carrying tools of violence.

Soma Seer said:

Here's my thought: If free will allows another person the option to attack an innocent individual, then I think the would-be victim has the right to self-defense. I don't think faith is unimportant, but I think it also logical to have faith in the misused free will of others.


Take care,

SS

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It doesn't work like that. If you don't show fear you will not get attacked. I had a really bad period about 20 years ago when I used to go for very long walks in the early hours of the morning. I lived in Redfern which was a bad area of Sydney. I used to walk down alleyways or anywhere. I wasn't frightened because frankly I was suicidal. I had people cross the road to avoid me and I even had a couple of people run away from me.

Attitude is everything. Treat people like you would a dog or a pack of dogs and you'll be fine. You will not be attacked if you don't show fear. I had a Siamese cat as a kid and he knew dogs were all bluff. He stood his ground, never showed fear and the local dogs were terrified of him. That said, he used his claws once or twice and I did see him run from one strange dog once. I got bailed up by a pack of dogs once. I was terrified but I knew that if I ran or backed down in that 30 minutes, I was dead.

rich1540 said:

It doesn't work like that. If you don't show fear you will not get attacked.

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I do believe that the way in which you carry yourself oftentimes may prevent an attack. But as a female, there's no way that I'd trust a tough-looking exterior to protect me in a rough neighborhood. And, so, I wouldn't feel guilty for carrying some form of non-lethal protection. Granted, I also make it a point to not stroll around notoriously high-crime neighborhoods.


SS

EugenSpierer said:

Much has been written about priests abd the second amendment. However, I would like to approach the matter from a different angle. Should a priest or pastor carry a non lethal tool of self defense when in a dangerous neighborhood?
By non lethal I mean pepper sparys, fist loading weapons and the like WITH THE INTENTION OF SELF DEFENSE WITHOUT SERIOUS HARM TO THE ATTACKER. A penny for your thoughts...

Father Eugen Spierer

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Yes and nothing is wrong for a priest that is not wrong for all of us.

rich1540 said:

It doesn't work like that. If you don't show fear you will not get attacked. I had a really bad period about 20 years ago when I used to go for very long walks in the early hours of the morning. I lived in Redfern which was a bad area of Sydney. I used to walk down alleyways or anywhere. I wasn't frightened because frankly I was suicidal. I had people cross the road to avoid me and I even had a couple of people run away from me.

Attitude is everything. Treat people like you would a dog or a pack of dogs and you'll be fine. You will not be attacked if you don't show fear. I had a Siamese cat as a kid and he knew dogs were all bluff. He stood his ground, never showed fear and the local dogs were terrified of him. That said, he used his claws once or twice and I did see him run from one strange dog once. I got bailed up by a pack of dogs once. I was terrified but I knew that if I ran or backed down in that 30 minutes, I was dead.

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Might work sometimes, does not work every time. It is simply not true in every situation that if you do not show fear you will not get attacked.

EugenSpierer said:

Much has been written about priests abd the second amendment. However, I would like to approach the matter from a different angle. Should a priest or pastor carry a non lethal tool of self defense when in a dangerous neighborhood?
By non lethal I mean pepper sparys, fist loading weapons and the like WITH THE INTENTION OF SELF DEFENSE WITHOUT SERIOUS HARM TO THE ATTACKER. A penny for your thoughts...

Father Eugen Spierer

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the problem is that, as things are now, when the people arm themselves with firearms such as revolvers, pistols, shotguns, submachine guns, and rifles, tomorrow they could arm themselves with heavy machine guns, rpg, tanks, artillery, missiles, gunships(combat helicopters, jet fighters), etc. - the more they arm themselves, the worse, and with regard to the self-defense, i, as a follower of Christ, cannot recommend the use of any harmful or deadly weapon, as well as the application of any pernicious or killing treatment, because, according to the Word of God and Jesus, to strike back should be only as a last resort in the most extreme case, why must the believers arm themselves with firearms instead of preaching the overall peace of Christ setting a good example for the others?!, because can you find in the Bible how Jesus Christ or anyone of His disciples carried/used a detrimental/lethal weapon constantly?!, of course i also never say never when it comes to the protection/conservation of the human life, but why the arming first?!

Blessings

toLiJC said:

...i, as a follower of Christ, cannot recommend the use of any harmful or deadly weapon, as well as the application of any pernicious or killing treatment, because, according to the Word of God and Jesus, to strike back should be only as a last resort in the most extreme case, why must the believers arm themselves with firearms instead of preaching the overall peace of Christ setting a good example for the others?!....

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The OP is about non-lethal weapons designed to prevent/stop an attack.


SS

Soma Seer said:

The OP is about non-lethal weapons designed to prevent/stop an attack.


SS

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thanks for the note

i talked about the firearms as a counterpoint

Blessings

toLiJC said:

the problem is that, as things are now, when the people arm themselves with firearms such as revolvers, pistols, shotguns, submachine guns, and rifles, tomorrow they could arm themselves with heavy machine guns, rpg, tanks, artillery, missiles, gunships(combat helicopters, jet fighters), etc. - the more they arm themselves, the worse, and with regard to the self-defense, i, as a follower of Christ, cannot recommend the use of any harmful or deadly weapon, as well as the application of any pernicious or killing treatment, because, according to the Word of God and Jesus, to strike back should be only as a last resort in the most extreme case, why must the believers arm themselves with firearms instead of preaching the overall peace of Christ setting a good example for the others?!, because can you find in the Bible how Jesus Christ or anyone of His disciples carried/used a detrimental/lethal weapon constantly?!, of course i also never say never when it comes to the protection/conservation of the human life, but why the arming first?!

Blessings

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Peter seemed to be ready with a sword on him. You cannot strike back in the extreme case when it is justified if you do not have the weapon to strike back with.

elman said:

Peter seemed to be ready with a sword on him. You cannot strike back in the extreme case when it is justified if you do not have the weapon to strike back with.

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yes, Jesus Christ did not forbid His disciples to have weapons (Luke 22:38), because He knew they will feel safer with weapons in themselves, for He preferred they to have more assurance, because he knew they could be scared of coming enemies, but also remember how He forbade them to use the knives against humans (Matthew 26:52), because when one of them cut with a knife the ear of one of the persons who came to arrest Jesus, He forbade them to use weapons again (Luke 22:50-51)

Blessings

This day and age, I think ANYONE is a little nuts NOT to have some method of self-defense.

toLiJC said:

yes, Jesus Christ did not forbid His disciples to have weapons (Luke 22:38), because He knew they will feel safer with weapons in themselves, for He preferred they to have more assurance, because he knew they could be scared of coming enemies, but also remember how He forbade them to use the knives against humans (Matthew 26:52), because when one of them cut with a knife the ear of one of the persons who came to arrest Jesus, He forbade them to use weapons again (Luke 22:50-51)

Blessings

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I don't think Jesus telling Peter to put up his sword on this occasion was a general command for all time to everyone not to ever use a sword on human beings.

elman said:

I don't think Jesus telling Peter to put up his sword on this occasion was a general command for all time to everyone not to ever use a sword on human beings.

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it is enough that it is written: "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."(1 John 3:14-15)

the gunning is appropriate for the (video) games, but it is unhealthy in a real life situation

Blessings

elman said:

I don't think Jesus telling Peter to put up his sword on this occasion was a general command for all time to everyone not to ever use a sword on human beings.

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This is a very contentious issue and it angers me that so many misinterpret it.

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Matthew 26:52

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the use of guns is for the police officers and the other functionaries, while the believers have some right to carry weapons, but they have to try not to use them to the detriment of any human

Romans 13:1-12 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword(i.e. the weapon) in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger(i.e. a crime-stopper) to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light."

Blessings

toLiJC said:

it is enough that it is written: "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."(1 John 3:14-15)

the gunning is appropriate for the (video) games, but it is unhealthy in a real life situation

Blessings

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Defense of an innocent from harm is a loving action. It may be one of these actions that result in our passing from death of our soul as the result of our own sin to life that is gifted to us by Jesus.

rich1540 said:

This is a very contentious issue and it angers me that so many misinterpret it.

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Are you saying I am misinterpreting It?