Which head on the Revelat1on 13 beast?

Lord help me, Doug, I'm starting to come around to your POV....

on some things...

The dragon has 10 horns. But, the dragon/ beast is a king and a kingdom. The kingdom of the ruler, and the beast kingdom overall. The US under martial law will have 10 FEMA states. The UN and United Religions will have 10 sections. Obama became the head of the UN Security Council on its 69th meeting (refers to messiah from Daniel 9) and on Rosh Hashanah to boot. The UN will have its 70th meeting next year, in other words, big stuff for the UN and Obama Rosh Hashanah 2014 - 2015.

Ezek 32

The US is Egypt.



Ezek 30


Babylon/ Iraq/ ISIS attacks the US coalition.

China buys the US.


Prince Harry and William "partied" in Memphis, TN a little while back. There happens to be a giant pyramid right downtown. Elites have a thing for Elvis, the "King", apparently. Prince Harry in Jamaica: Prince dances to Bob Marley on Diamond Jubilee tour wearing blue shoes | Daily Mail Online
He goes on to fill out the 7: Egypt 1, Assyria 2, Elam 3, Mesheck and Tubal 4, Edom 5, all the princes of the North 6, and the Sidonians 7.

The broken arm seems to relate to the Zech 14 worthless/ idolatrous shepherd, "a sword will be at his arm and head".

Also,
Isaiah 21
1The oracle concerning the wilderness of the sea.
As whirlwinds in the Negeb sweep on,
it comes from the wilderness,
from a terrible land.
2A stern vision is told to me;
the traitor betrays,
and the destroyer destroys.
Go up, O Elam;
lay siege, O Media;
all the sighing she has caused
I bring to an end.
3Therefore my loins are filled with anguish;
pangs have seized me,
like the pangs of a woman in labor;
I am bowed down so that I cannot hear;
I am dismayed so that I cannot see.
4My heart staggers; horror has appalled me;
the twilight I longed for
has been turned for me into trembling.
5They prepare the table,
they spread the rugs,a
they eat, they drink.
Arise, O princes;
oil the shield!
6For thus the Lord said to me:
“Go, set a watchman;
let him announce what he sees.
7When he sees riders, horsemen in pairs,
riders on donkeys, riders on camels,
let him listen diligently,
very diligently.”
8Then he who saw cried out:b
“Upon a watchtower I stand, O Lord,
continually by day,
and at my post I am stationed
whole nights.
9And behold, here come riders,
horsemen in pairs!”
And he answered,
“Fallen, fallen is Babylon;
and all the carved images of her gods
he has shattered to the ground.”
10O my threshed and winnowed one,
what I have heard from the Lord of hosts,
the God of Israel, I announce to you.

The birth pains are the star sign of Revelation 12, Rosh Hashanah Sept. 20 - 23, 2017.

Gen 3
So, Satan gets a mortal head wound when the seed is born, - at the time of the woman giving birth is when Mystery Babylon falls (when it is attacked by Elam and Media/ Russia and Iran, the ram of Daniel 8.

Daniel 7's 4th beast king would be the worthless shepherd who has a mortal head wound. The 11th horn of Daniel 7 is the Daniel 8 little horn (based in Turkey/ Pergamom the city and country - Pergamom is where the 7 end-time churches are based in Rev 1-3) who would be the False Prophet of the worthless shepherd, the 4th beast king who also has 10 horns. The 11th horn of Dan 7 uproots 3 horns: he defeats Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meschech, and Tubal, 1,2,3 horns. Gog is defeated by fire from the sky, just like the false prophet brings down fire in the sight of men.

"Mortally wounded" sort of thing, came to pass waaay back there from Christ when He was glorified and enthroned.

Old Jack's opinion

shturt678s said in post 5:

"Mortally wounded" sort of thing, came to pass waaay back there from Christ when He was glorified and enthroned.

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Revelation 13:3 could have a dual meaning. It could refer to the revival of a dead, past empire, i.e. one of the 7 heads of the beast in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1). And at the same time it could apply, along with Revelation 13:14b, to the revival of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) after he dies from a head wound (probably in an assassination attempt).

Regarding the revival of a dead, past empire, the 7 heads of Revelation's "beast" in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3) represent 7 different empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam. The first 5 had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the 1st century AD: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10, Revelation 1:1b-2). The 6th (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The 7th (possibly Islam) hadn't come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, 8th head (Revelation 17:11), which will be a revival of one of the 5 empires which had fallen by the time of John (Revelation 17:8,10,11). It will be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist will transform the present-day, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq) into the capital of his world empire, only to see his city of Babylon ultimately destroyed at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 13).

Before the 2nd coming, when the world is brought into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist, during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist will build their main temple in the city of Babylon. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

The Antichrist may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned, and so reinstitute the system that Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15). The Antichrist may also claim to be, at the same time, the return of Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Genesis 10:8-10), and Hammurabi, and Asoka, and other famous rulers of the past. For he may claim that he has had many different "past lives" as various "enlightened" rulers.

Besides building a main temple in Babylon, the Antichrist will also sit (at least one time) in a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and declare himself God there (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in other religions' holiest shrines, and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could also sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc.

--

Regarding the revival of an assassinated Antichrist, the "image of the beast" (Revelation 13:15) could be an android image of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) which the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20) could cause to be made after the Antichrist receives a terrible head wound (Revelation 13:3,14b). For this injury could leave the Antichrist's facial and bodily appearance permanently marred, and could render him unable to speak clearly, like someone after a bad stroke, so that the Antichrist won't want to appear or speak in public again.

Did you ever see that movie "Dave"? It had a President who was in a coma, so his handlers found a regular guy who looked exactly like the President, and had him be a public stand-in for the President. He was able to speak just like the President did. It could be like that with the Antichrist's image. It could be the Antichrist's "Dave", his double, which appears and speaks (Revelation 13:15) before the world instead of his wounded self. But instead of letting people think that the Antichrist's android image is the Antichrist himself, the False Prophet could tell people from the beginning that the image isn't the Antichrist himself, but still fully represents him.

In Revelation 13:15, the original Greek word translated as "life" or "breath" (pneuma: G4151) can mean "spirit" in the sense of consciousness (1 Corinthians 2:11a, Luke 1:47), so that the android could appear to have a spirit, to have consciousness. The way that this could be achieved would be through the android having wireless connections to huge banks of supercomputers running advanced artificial intelligence software. The False Prophet could claim that the Antichrist's consciousness dwells within the android by means of neural networks imprinted with the Antichrist's brain patterns. But this could be a lie, in that the android won't actually have the Antichrist's consciousness, or any true consciousness, but will only appear to have consciousness, by its being able to pass even the most stringent Turing Test. This is a test whereby one speaks with a computer and can't tell whether it has consciousness or not, because all of its answers are the same as if it had consciousness.

But the android's "consciousness" could appear far more advanced than any human's, for it could have access to huge databases containing every fact known to man, so that the android will appear to be omniscient. In this way, it could convince the world that it is not just a machine, but a material incarnation, a machine avatar, of the true God, a literal "deus ex machina", a literal "God from a machine". And this machine "God" could boast not only of his mental powers, but also of his physical powers: he could be extremely strong. And he could boast of the "immortality" of his machine body, which could be made of titanium, covered with some practically-everlasting flesh-like silicone. People could just be completely awestruck by his (what they could call) "omniscient wisdom, his strength, his indestructibility". They could consider him more than worthy of worship by (in their words) "mere humanity, which is so mentally and physically limited, made out of mere flesh and blood, which is so weak and so mortal". The world will actually worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), just as it will actually worship Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9).

The Antichrist's image could be placed standing in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, so that the image will become the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). And in order to make it easy for everyone in the world to be able to see the image and worship it (Revelation 13:15), it could appear on every smartphone, television, computer, GPS navigation system, and electronic billboard at set times each day. And to make it possible for everyone to interact with it personally, it could appear as a computer-generated image on each individual's smartphone, speaking in and understanding each individual's language, conversing with each individual with personalized messages and responses devised by supercomputers running artificial intelligence and language software.

And it could discuss with them even the most intimate details of their lives, for it could have access to huge databases compiled by the Antichrist's worldwide intelligence, law enforcement, economic, and health agencies, databases containing all the facts about everyone: who their family and friends are, where they live and work, who their neighbors and coworkers are, how much they make, what cars and properties they own and use, where they go, where they shop, what they buy, where they eat out, what shows and videos they watch, what they read, what they say, what they post on the internet, what their health problems are, etc., so that the Antichrist's image could seem to know everything about everyone.

And the worship of the image could be connected with a daily surveillance and subjugation of everyone. For the image's supercomputers could make his image automatically appear on everyone's smartphone at set times each day to be worshipped. And smartphones contain GPS chips which can be secretly pinged in order to determine the exact location of the smartphones. So when the image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could ping the GPS chip of everyone's smartphone and know exactly where everyone is.

Also, smartphones contain cameras and microphones, which can be remotely opened secretly in order to see and hear what is going on around the smartphones. So when the image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could open the cameras and microphones of everyone's smartphone to determine what everyone is doing and saying, and the image could then demand that the individuals worship him as God, saying some set prayer of praise and adoration. And if any individual refuses, the image's supercomputers could detect his noncompliance, and notify the nearest police officers of his exact location, and order the officers to arrest him for blasphemy and treason. He could then be given a chance to be "reformed" (i.e. in a brainwashing camp, or through physical torture, if necessary), but if he proves recalcitrant, he will be executed (Revelation 13:15) by being beheaded (Revelation 20:4).

The beheading process itself could be made into a televised and webcasted spectacle, to serve not only as a dire warning to anyone thinking of refusing to worship the image, but also to serve as an amazingly-horrific entertainment for the masses, like how the ancient Romans made it an entertainment for the masses to gather them into the Colosseum in Rome and let them watch Christians being thrown to lions and devoured alive.

Huge beheading structures could be built, by which 20 "traitors" could be beheaded at one time by one fall of one blade. The "traitors" could be bound in a row along an upright "U"-shaped device with a track for a large guillotine blade, which could start out in a resting position at the top of one side. The blade could be so massive and so sharp that when it is released it will easily slice down through 10 necks on one side of the "U" and continue on by its own momentum up the other side of the "U", shearing off another 10 heads. This all could happen so quickly that it will appear as if all 20 heads are struck off almost in unison, followed immediately by 20 geysers of blood rushing out in unison for all the Antichrist's "faithful" to gawk at and cheer over in the comfort of their own homes before their televisions and computers.

Also, immediately after the show, at the site where it took place, teams of surgeons could rush in to "harvest" all the fresh organs and other body parts from the beheaded bodies to be used for transplants (beheading being the best way for a body to die if you want to harvest its parts). What is left of the bodies could then be stuffed into shipping containers, which, once full, could be painted black and stacked like stones into a gigantic, Black Pyramid of Death, which could eventually reach some 30 stories high and contain tens of millions of bodies. A huge plaque could be erected in front of the Pyramid which will read: "This is a monument to the shame of YHWH, who created everything to die". (Of course, the truth is that he didn't, for he created Adam and Eve immortal; it wasn't until they sinned that they became mortal: Genesis 2:17. And YHWH will restore immortality to saved humans through Jesus Christ: Romans 6:23. Also, any such plaque would be hypocritical, for it will be the Antichrist who will have murdered the people entombed in the Pyramid, not YHWH. And so it will actually be a monument to how those who hate YHWH and his wisdom, love death: Proverbs 8:36b.)

Regarding the worship of the Antichrist's image, to help foster a group dynamic, every neighborhood and village in the world could be helped to create a group worship center in which everyone in that neighborhood or village will have to gather together at a set time each evening to bow down and prostrate himself or herself before a life-size, lifelike image of the Antichrist, which could be a computer-generated, animated, holographic or widescreen 3D HDTV image of him clothed in beautiful golden robes and standing majestically before them (or sitting on a magnificent golden throne), and speaking computer-generated customized messages to them as a group.

This worship could be accompanied by the most beautiful symphonic music (cf. Daniel 3:5), or whatever is the most beautiful music to the local people, to help them (in the words of the Antichrist's propaganda machine) "Be uplifted into the true spirit of praise and worship of our Great Lord and Master. Praised be His Majestic Name forever and ever!", etc. And what with the wonderful music, and all their fellow worshippers around them, and customized messages of encouragement spoken in a deep, soothing voice by a life-size, holographic or 3D HDTV image of the Antichrist to certain members of each "worship group", it could be that some people in each group will start to really get into the evening worship sessions, and even begin to (in their words) "Truly feel the Living Presence of our loving God among us, loving us so tenderly, so personally! Oh, how I love Him! He is So Great!"

But the world's worship of the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), no matter how blissful it may become for some people, and the world's worship of the Antichrist and Lucifer (Satan) the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), will last for less than 4 years (Revelation 13:5, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ returns from heaven and completely defeats the Antichrist and Lucifer, and the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3), and Jesus then sets up his own, 1,000-year physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

Grammatically Rev.13:3 could have a dual meaning, however in light of IIPet.1:20, 21 contextually and aspectually could only have a one valid genuine meaning, ie, thank you Jesus!

Rev.13:3 contextually withing vs.1-10 where the 1st beast = the whole antichristian power in the whole world and nothing less = blasphemous monster.

This is obviously a vision. The heads and the horns are to be contextually viewed together. The imagery compresses the totality of the arrogant usurpation of divine power and rule ("7" heads) and of the completeness of this lordly sway ("10" horns) into small say, compass; yet the stroke that smote the one head slew the whole beast. Who delivered that death stroke? Christ has the keys of the death and the hades (Rev.1:18). Here belong all the passages which speak of Christ's victory, glorification, enthronement and Rev.20:1-3.

Only an opinion from the least of the pecking order,

Old Jack

btw we don't want to be a part of Rev.13:14b today do we? Forever ramifications!

/

Douggg said:

In Revelation 13 first beast, on which head of the 7 heads (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) are the 10 horns ? On which head is the mouth of a lion?

13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.


3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

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Hitler was the antichrist. His Third Reich was the third head #6 of the 666 trilogy.

Douggg said:

In Revelation 13 first beast, on which head of the 7 heads (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) are the 10 horns ? On which head is the mouth of a lion?

13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.


3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

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As the seven heads are of a single beast, composed of the four beasts in Daniel, they all exhibit characteristics of those beasts.

In other words, the mouth is below the seven heads, above that point the seven heads rise like a hydra.

If we follow the angel's interpretation in c. 17:9, Babylon the Great is that religious empire since the Tower of Babel, that has withstood God and rode on top of the main world powers that fought against God, throughout history.

So the final form of the confederacy arrayed against God will follow Babylonianish antiGod philosophies and religions.

The Tower of Babel, with its top in the heavens, advertised itself as the voice of God, setting the pattern all would see, and must follow. Communism, Marxism, Statism, Liberalism as it exists now in the Revived Roman Empire, are the bricks of uniform size, all must become to "fit" into their plan.

God found that abhorrent, that all follow the word of men as though they were God, and uniformity of thought and life be imposed from above, man ruling man against God's bequeathing of certain rights of self choice and personal freedom to choose.

We are in the process of rebuilding Bablon the Tower, the Big Government that watches over all, crushing all who disagree using the various levers of Government, like the IRS, BLM, NLRB, EPA, and any other lever that can be employed to crush dissent, and cause everyone else to fear.

Europe is on the same road. But the two horned lamb, Britain and America, formerly Christian nations, now speak like dragons, and their technology is feared by all, none can war against it. That will be made plain soon.

Jesus wept. If the Holy Spirit gives a person insight into prophecy; he will do it by using other scriptures to interpret that prophecy and not by giving someone a giant private interpretation of them. What you got is not from God my friend. Don't take this very mild scolding lightly.

The animals in Revelation are the same ones in Daniel. They represent four successive empires that warred against the saints and overcame them. Their oppressive rule is called the 'times" or the "age" of the gentiles. The first empire is named in Daniel 2, Babylon. The second and third are named in Daniel 8, Medo\Persia and Greece. The fourth not named but its conquest of the Greek empire is recorded Daniel 11 culminating in its conquest of the last quarter of the Greek empire by Rome's first emperor Octavian, (Augustus) in Daniel 11:40-44.
All that the book of Revelation does is to give further enlightenment of this same empire, Rome, that ruled over the saints for 14 centuries. It says in Rev. 17:17: 7 ......, which has the seven heads and ten horns.... 9 ....... The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sits. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he coms, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; .......
Excluding claimants to the throne, these are seventeen specific Roman emperors. By claimants I mean those who claimed the throne in a time of multiple contestants for it. The seventeen are those who came out on top and secured it. So just because one of the claimants happened to be in the city of Rome when he claimed the throne. It doesn't count. Only counting the one who finally won the throne by force or intrigue. Keep in mind bias colors mine and everyone else's opinion of who actually was an emperor.
That being said. I consider Vespasian the seventh emperor and therefore the seventh head. Titus his son is the eight. The reason the eighth is of the seven is because we are still talking about the same empire and he is Vespasian's son. He, Titus, is called the beast because he is the one that destroyed Jerusalem just like the first emperor, Nebuchadnezzar did; of this illustration of the four empires . Do you know what the historical consensus is of the time period between Babylon, the first animal of this four animal illustration, first conquering Jerusalem and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD? 667 years. One year off the infamous "number" of the "beast" So, from the time of the beginning of the age of the gentiles until Jerusalem was destroyed by Titus was 667 years.
Gets even more detailed. The ten emperors who at the time John received his vision had received no throne as of yet. These are the same ten in Daniel chapter 7 and Daniel chapter two. Titus is the fist of the ten. The little horn of Daniel is the eleventh. He is Septimius Severus who's reign began in 193 AD. He made conversion to Christianity illegal and unlike the ten before him he is the one that started the large scale persecutions. He "made war with the saints and overcame them." There is a number associated directly with him in Daniel 7 and spoken of seven different times in relation to the Roman empire.
1260. If you add 1260 years to the beginning of his reign you get the exact year the Roman empire ended. 1453 AD.
Did Septimius Severus fulfill the prophecy in Daniel 7 about the little horn?
Radically actually: From my article on end time prophecy.
End Time Prophecy
This leaves Septimius Severus as the eleventh of the ten who pretty amazingly seems to fulfill many of the words in many different ways concerning the beginning of the time period of the little horn. First; three emperors or three of the ten horns fell before him. Emperor Commodus 180-192 was murdered by his personal associates. Pertinax was legitimately appointed as emperor immediately afterwards. There were no other claimants to the throne. He was murdered 87 days later by a group of soldiers in the imperial residence when he personally confronted them to quell a mutiny. There were no other claimants to the throne so the Pretorian guard found a couple of men (a prefect and a senator) who bid against each other to pay them to proclaim one of them emperor. Didius Julianus won the auction. After 62 days Septimius Severus deposed him. So well within a one year period three emperors, "three horns," fell before Septimius Severus. Secondly; three claimants to the throne were militarily subdued. Didius Julianus was the first. Upon hearing of the murder of Pertinax and the purchasing of the emperorship by Didius Julianus and two others, the governors of Syria and Briton proclaimed themselves emperor. The governor of Syria was defeated after Didius Julianus then lastly the governor of Briton. So here, Septimius Severus subdued three. Lastly, Septimius Severus seems to be the first real non Italian emperor. Although Trajan and Hadrian are considered to be the first provisional emperors (from Spain,) they were apparently still from Italian families. What this could mean is that the previous three Italian dynasties were uprooted when he became emperor. To put this in an even broader perspective. His son, the emperor Caracalla who's mother was Syrian made all the freeman of the Roman empire Roman citizens. From this point on being Italian faded into obscurity as far as the emperorship was concerned.
From 193 A.D. to 1453 A.D there never ceased to be an emperor on the throne of the Roman Empire which is 1260 years.

Islamic conquerors are the seventh head of the beast to trample Jerusalem, and they trampled Jerusalem for 1260 years as prophesied. Their time is up, but now they want to rule Jerusalem again and are hell-bent on fighting the Battle of Ar Mageddon which began on 9/11 when the Euphrates was dry.

Lol!. The seven heads are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media and Persia, Greece, Rome and America. The head with the ten horns is Rome. The ten horns are Byzantine, Gaul, Hispania, Brittania, Grecia, Italia, ..... Don't know the remaining four. They are now Western European Union.

Douggg said:

Do you know what the problem with that is, Alfred ?

In Daniel 7, the little horn has the mouth of man of speaking great things, and that same little horn meets his end at the end of a time, time, and half times of persecuting the saints.

That little horn will be the seventh Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire, the one in Revelation 17 not yet come, but when he comes he must continue a little space, it says.

What all the means is the seventh head will be the little horn, having the boastful mouth. The seventh head is mortally wounded but recovers, comes back to life; his second go around is as the 8th king, but called the beast and not the little horn in Revelation 13.

The mouth (like that of a lion) that curses God and them in Heaven is on that 7th head.

That same head would have to be noticeably larger, because the ten horns are on that head as well.

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Shouldn't conflate, one image does not interpret the other, these are different images.

Every detail in the image must be explained, or its a generalization parading as interpretation.

Conflicting details are in appearance only, the correct interpretation reconciles incompatible elements by showing how they apply to different things, not by suppressing one in favor of the other.

To illustrate: Free will and God's Sovereignty. The paradox is in appearance only, not actual. God is totally in control while He absolutely respects our free will. That's how wonderful He is.

17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. (Col 1:17 NKJ)

In the matrix all consists in the infinite mind of God, by His infinite power, yet its via concurrence that He is neither the blame for evil (including birth defects, natural disasters, etc), or the free will choice of some, to do evil:

7 "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it."
8 Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.
(Gen 4:7-8 NKJ)

15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.' (Mat 13:15 NKJ)

Note carefully what our LORD Jesus the Eternal Son of the living God when asked about birth defects:

1 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth.
2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3 Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. (Joh 9:1-3 NKJ)

He denied the Father did it, nor was human sin at fault.

Rather, it happened (because of the fall, because we chose be outside of paradise where such things would never happen), so that the Glory of God our Saviour be revealed, so His Mercy could be known, so it was permitted to occur, by God's concurrence.

Douggg said:

The seven heads are seven kings, not seven kingdoms. There are only four kingdoms in the Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 visions.

America the eighth king (dom) ? Not hardly the 8th king the beast was, is not, yet is.

The EU currently is made up of 28 countries.

The WEU officially no longer exists. The ten king form of government over the EU has not developed yet - but is the next big event to happen on the prophecies chart.

Copy and Paste from wikipedia....

Since the end of the Cold War, WEU tasks and institutions have been transferred to the Common Security and Defence Policy which is being framed for the geographically larger and more comprehensive European Union. This process was completed in 2009, when a solidarity clause between the member states of the European Union which was similar (but not identical) to the WEU's mutual defence clause, entered into force with the Treaty of Lisbon. The states party to the Modified Treaty of Brussels consequently decided to terminate that treaty on 31 March 2010, with all the remaining WEU's activities to be ceased within 15 months. On 30 June 2011 the WEU was officially declared defunct

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Without fully agreeing with Kingdom Witness' interpretation, your objection Daniel only has four kingdoms leaves out the fact he begins with Babylon of Nebuchadnezzar's day. Within the imagery of two legs with two feet each having 5 toes the appear at the end, we can easily see Rome (East & West) are the two legs, which leaves the feet and the toes a dual kingdom lacking in cohesion, as the last appearing for a only short while. It only comes into being in the End, a British American two horned beast that looked like a lamb, but spoke like a dragon. (Has any group of nations produced more filth and anti god philosophy than these two formerly Christian nations?).

36 "This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king.
37 "You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory;
38 "and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all-- you are this head of gold.
39 "But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.
40 "And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others.
41 "Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay.
42 "And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile.
43 "As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.
44 "And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
(Dan 2:36-44 NKJ)

Egypt and Assyria makes Babylon the Third kingdom, Medes and Persians the fourth; Greece the fifth; Rome (=two legs East and West) then Revelation's sixth which in John's day was existing ("one is").

So the seventh "the other has not yet come" is not found in Biblical history, it must be discerned from events that follow the end of the Roman Empire. To be counted means it will have a special relevance to the nation of Israel.

Being feet each having five toes, being partly clay mixed with iron, its a dual kingdom that is acts as one, but not perfectly. That is Britain, the largest empire the world ever had in geographical reach, and America.

The eighth kingdom then is the League of Nations (being "of the seven"), which was not during WWII, but rose again as the United Nations, and being landless, a mere political creation, it goes off into destruction at the return of Christ, while the nations remain for a short while because they are actual, not just a political arrangement.

The key to interpreting Rev 17:7-13 is to realize the angel gives some of this two meanings. While standing for world empires that fought against God throughout history, having special relevance to the nation of Israel, they are ALSO seven kings. So none of this denies the beast and false prophet are individuals also. Their base of power, are the world empires they rule over. The eighth, the Beast, heads the United Nations and it is the platform from which he rules.


8 "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 "Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.
10 "There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. (Rev 17:8-10 NKJ)

Most incorrectly interpret "Here is the mind which has wisdom" as applying to what follows, BUT Parallel texts show similar language explains what went before, by what follows.


17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666. (Rev 13:17-18 NKJ)

The wisdom is required to know the beast, by calculating the number, not in just calculating the number.

Another parallel, "let the reader understand" applies to the abomination before it, not the fleeing after it:


14 "So when you see the`abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not " (let the reader understand), "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. (Mar 13:14 NKJ)

Hence these seven heads are seven mountains "AND Kings seven ARE" (καὶ βασιλεῖς ἑπτά εἰσι&#957

So that's where commentators go wrong, not realizing these words have two meanings. They are both world powers and individuals---so its not an "either or" situation, its both.

So the United Nations goes off into destruction, and the Antichrist reigning through it goes off into the lake of fire. So also the false prophet, the two horned lamb British American Union in the end, remains only a short time just as the False Prophet reigning through it does.

Formerly Christian Britain and America now follow the Antichrist, and support him with their wondrous bio-technology.

But another event will empower these bad actors, the "strong delusion" of an UFO Alien landing (when Satan and his angels are kicked out of heaven and they come down), they will work through Britain and America and the entire world will be in fear, saying "who can make war against him who they support"

Douggg said:

The ten horns are associated with the head on the fourth beast in Daniel 7 in the text. Those same ten horns are associated in Revelation 17 with the beast that was, is not, yet is. And it is that beast, the first beast, that will be worshiped.

The 2nd beast is the one which looked like a lamb, and caused everyone to worship the first beast. So the 2nd beast is not the one associated with the ten horns, nor the ten toes.

The 2nd beast is not a king, but a religious figure, and is certainly not Britian and the United States.

Click to expand...

You are confusing the 10 king confederation that rises from the remnants of the Roman Empire, with the eighth king. That is impossible as it is said of the eighth:

11 "And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. (Rev 17:11 NKJ)

He can't be both the eighth and the seventh king and yet be "of the entire seven."

Its better we follow the angel's interpretation.

These ten horns are ten kings who arise from the remnants of the Roman Empire and reign contemporaneously with the Antichrist, who subdues (humbles) three of them to consolidate his authority over the entire 10 horn confederacy.

So we have a ten king confederation, with three of its kings humbled; the Antichrist ruling via the UN, but having authority over the 10 horn confederacy after humbling three of them.

It is the UN that is the eighth king, of the seven. The League of Nations and subsequent rebirth as the United Nations is a product of the West, the remnants of the Roman Empire. America shares that heritage in its form of Government, and if Forensic Geologist of the History Channel Scott Wolter is correct, ancient Rome's reach may have extended to the US, via its traveling remnants.

The False prophet leader of the two horned Beast that looks like a lamb---Britain and America (which is the last seventh head of the beast in Rev 13:1, or seventh "mountain" upon which rode Mystery Babylon (from the time of the Tower of Babel's Magisterium speaking as God, making men like uniform bricks, forcing them to think alike following their "voice in the clouds" as though it were god"), has been opposing God throughout history. (Babylon the Great is not Roman Catholicism, its Babylon the mystery of the Tower revealed, STATISM in all its "Utopian" antigod-antiindividual-antifreedom forms.

That is why the two horned lamb is mentioned AFTER the seven head beast, they are not the same beast. It comes after because its a further elucidation of the last Empire kingdom, Britian/America both of which were the largest/most powerful kingdoms the world has ever seen.

These formerly Christian nations play the role of false prophet to the Antichrist Beast, empowering it with its wondrous Bio-technology, even making fire come down from the heavens and animating an image to the Beast:

20 "and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.
21 "I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,
22 "until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.
23 "Thus he said:`The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.
26 `But the court shall be seated, And they shall take away his dominion, To consume and destroy it forever.
(Dan 7:20-26 NKJ)

But the truly wondrous bio-technology will be from Satan and his demons, after Michael kicks them out of heaven (Rev 12:7), and the "strong delusion" (2 Thess c. 2) these are the Nephilim of old, as in the Days of Noah a return of the gods to further "evolve" the human race via genetic manipulation (cp Gen c. 6). It will be a world wide apostasy from everything called God, or worshiped as God up till that time, for the New "Alien" religion.