was this prophecy fulfilled ?

iohannes · Sep 21, 2014

Hello and thank you for the opportunity i'm new here and have never been in a debate before

I was reading about jesus in the bible and found this prophecy:

Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees
answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and
adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall
no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the
whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and
three nights in the heart of the earth.
Matthew 12 v38,39 and 40

I don't see how or when this prophecy was fulfilled could someone make things clear to me.

Ps: sorry for the poor english i'm moroccan

contango · Sep 21, 2014

iohannes said:
Hello and thank you for the opportunity i'm new here and have never been in a debate before

I was reading about jesus in the bible and found this prophecy:

Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees
answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
But he answered and said unto them, An evil and
adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall
no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the
whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and
three nights in the heart of the earth.
Matthew 12 v38,39 and 40

I don't see how or when this prophecy was fulfilled could someone make things clear to me.

Ps: sorry for the poor english i'm moroccan

It's about when Jesus died and spent three days and nights in the tomb.

Modern practise is to regard the crucifixion as being on Good Friday and the resurrection on Easter Sunday but that doesn't work - there aren't three days and three nights.

The text of the Bible is clear that "on the first day of the week" Jesus was no longer in the tomb, so the only issue is when Jesus died and was buried. Pontius Pilate allowed the body to be taken down from the cross early because the following day was the Sabbath, so people assume it was a Friday. But there were also annual Sabbaths, and if the following day was an annual Sabbath it needn't have been a Friday and so the three days and three nights fit between the death and resurrection.

iohannes · Sep 21, 2014

Its clear thx but i was referring to the fact that jesus died and was buried dead on the other hand jonas was alive in the belly of the whale or is it just the time factor?

iohannes · Sep 21, 2014

BlueLightningTN said:
It happened just as much as the moon was broken in half.

iohannes · Sep 21, 2014

Hello dear BlueLightningTN[bless and do not curse] I'm quite disappointed by the way you reacted to my post, does the presence of a Muslim makes you uncomfortable? Your post is completely irrelevant to my question and a bit provoking and what shocks me the most and I've read some of your debates -that I actually find great and impressive to be honest specially about the bible as the true word of god - is to see that you take a very logical approach in your debates but still within the presence of a Muslim you follow everyone into judging people and categorizing over a billion people according to some stupid misguided extremist dudes in a hijacked plane who misunderstood some verses of the Quran but still you find it a duty to respond when I [bless and do not curse]talk about the bible even if you're convinced that it's not the word of god I must warn you that you may one day find yourself judge by the actions of the most extremists of you and to put things in order when I asked my question I wasn't at all talking about any contradiction or so because I'm no bible scholar or a Muslim scholar trying to convert people I was in the first place reading and comparing stories of prophets in Islam and other religions and I found out that Jesus promised to fulfill the miracle of Jonas and yet I don't see how he did, let me explain [bless and do not curse]for us Muslims the miracle of Jonas wasn't the number of days or nights he spent in the belly of the whale but it's more the fact that he was ALIVE inside a whale because there is nothing miraculous about being even 3 years in there if he is dead that's quite normal it's the fact that he is alive that makes it a miracle again according to our point of view so I asked for some explanations and beginning to see according to the answer of our brother here that it is the time factor thought I don't see it as miraculous but it's a matter of opinion, and let us go back to the matter of the moon being broken in half that you mentioned and once more is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the whole concept of the forum but it won't hurt to go into it, well I'll give you my modest opinion I personally take it as it is due to the fact that I believe the Quran to be the true word of god I accept this fact and believe because god said so but I really don't take great importance in explaining it to others, but on a logical scale I would simply say to people who look at it as a fairy tall or a prove that the Quran isn't the word of god I say that there is no prove that denies this fact or confirms it, beside that if god is powerful enough to create the moon in the first place isn't he powerful enough to brake it in half and attach it back as a miracle for his prophet? Was this literally what happened or an illusion of it to those present at the time I don't know all I know is that god won't have any trouble doing so. Finally BlueLightningTN[bless and do not curse] I hope you don't find my presence here repulsive and if that is the case just PM me and you won't see me again although I'm very interested in the way you debate quite fascinating how you do it and good luck to you in you're future debates and I hope you find you're truth some day. I leave you in peace

MyLordMySavior · Sep 21, 2014

iohannes said:
Its clear thx but i was referring to the fact that jesus died and was buried dead on the other hand jonas was alive in the belly of the whale or is it just the time factor?

That ^ If it was referring to living or nonliving, the prophecy would have mentioned how Jonas was alive in the whales belly. But it didn't! It was just speaking of the time. That was the point it was making!

iohannes · Sep 21, 2014

Thank you i get the point indeed there is no mention of dead or alive in the verses it's just the way we think of the sign of jonas peace be upon him it's the fact that he is alive and praying inside the whale that's why we don't see it so miraculous for jesus peace be upon him we expect him to die and he was dead but if it's the time well it does explain it

contango · Sep 22, 2014

iohannes said:
Its clear thx but i was referring to the fact that jesus died and was buried dead on the other hand jonas was alive in the belly of the whale or is it just the time factor?

I'd say it was the time factor.

As a rule when people spend three days and three nights in the belly of a fish (or any other animal for that matter) the end result is not that they brush themselves down and get on with their lives. Being in the belly of any animal for that time would usually mean they were at least partially digested, and therefore well and truly dead.

In the same way the general rule is that when people have been dead in a tomb for three days and three nights the next step isn't for them to be walking around talking to people. Just like the person in the belly of the fish for three days, when someone has been dead for three days the normal course of events is that from day 4 onwards they stay dead.

Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days, Jesus was in the heart of the earth for three days, and both came back to life in ways that just don't normally happen.

contango · Sep 22, 2014

By the way, welcome to the forum!

I noticed your faith icon says you're a Muslim. Do you have a specific interest in Jonah and Jesus, or in our faith in general?

MarkRohfrietsch · Sep 22, 2014

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MarkRohfrietsch · Sep 22, 2014

MarkRohfrietsch said:
Mod Hat...

Hi everyone,

This forum is for proposing one-on-one formal, moderated debates as per these instructions stuck at the top of the page: Formal Debate Proposals Guidelines

Please be mindful of this rule which can be found here; Community Rules:

This thread is therefore off topic to this forum so I'm moving it to the exploring Christianity Forum.

Mark
Area Supervisor

Addendum:

I have also edited the title to bring it into compliance with this forum.

iohannes · Sep 22, 2014

contango said:
By the way, welcome to the forum!

I noticed your faith icon says you're a Muslim. Do you have a specific interest in Jonah and Jesus, or in our faith in general?

Thx mate yes i am muslim and my interest is in the stories of prophets (we see jesus as a prophet) in islam and other relegions some of them are similar (the stories) others don't that's why i needed info about that prophecy cuz the time factor didn't mean anything to me and i was seeking the sign or miracle.

theophilus40 · Sep 22, 2014

iohannes said:
for us Muslims the miracle of Jonas wasn't the number of days or nights he spent in the belly of the whale but it's more the fact that he was ALIVE inside a whale

Keeping Jonah alive was a miracle. Jesus was dead while in the tomb but came back to life. That was an even greater miracle.

contango · Sep 22, 2014

iohannes said:
Thx mate yes i am muslim and my interest is in the stories of prophets (we see jesus as a prophet) in islam and other relegions some of them are similar (the stories) others don't that's why i needed info about that prophecy cuz the time factor didn't mean anything to me and i was seeking the sign or miracle.

I'm aware that Muslims regard Jesus as a prophet, although I think the things Jesus said rule him out from being a prophet.

When Jesus went around forgiving sins and saying he was God I think the option of saying he was a prophet disappear. If he was a prophet he would have to be written off as a false prophet, because if he wasn't God but said he was then anything else he said would have to be regarded with suspicion.

Of course if he said he was God because he really was God, that makes him so much more than just a prophet.

bling · Sep 22, 2014

iohannes said:
Its clear thx but i was referring to the fact that jesus died and was buried dead on the other hand jonas was alive in the belly of the whale or is it just the time factor?

Just as Jonah was in the belly of a big fish for three days Jesus was in the tomb for three days. Jesus really never dies spiritually and Jesus is alive and well even today, but not in his own physical body on earth.

iohannes · Sep 22, 2014

contango said:
I'm aware that Muslims regard Jesus as a prophet, although I think the things Jesus said rule him out from being a prophet.

When Jesus went around forgiving sins and saying he was God I think the option of saying he was a prophet disappear. If he was a prophet he would have to be written off as a false prophet, because if he wasn't God but said he was then anything else he said would have to be regarded with suspicion.

Of course if he said he was God because he really was God, that makes him so much more than just a prophet.

True if only we all agree that the bible and what it says is the word of god

MyLordMySavior · Sep 22, 2014

iohannes said:
True if only we all agree that the bible and what it says is the word of god

That actually does bring up a question from me, lol. How do you guys view Jesus exactly? Do you see Him as just a true prophet? Or, do you see him as a false prophet since He told people He was God?

AvgJoe · Sep 22, 2014

contango said:
It's about when Jesus died and spent three days and nights in the tomb.

Modern practise is to regard the crucifixion as being on Good Friday and the resurrection on Easter Sunday but that doesn't work - there aren't three days and three nights.

The text of the Bible is clear that "on the first day of the week" Jesus was no longer in the tomb, so the only issue is when Jesus died and was buried. Pontius Pilate allowed the body to be taken down from the cross early because the following day was the Sabbath, so people assume it was a Friday. But there were also annual Sabbaths, and if the following day was an annual Sabbath it needn't have been a Friday and so the three days and three nights fit between the death and resurrection.

And it was an annual Sabbath. Jesus kept the annual Passover with His disciples (Matthew:26:18; Luke:22:52), then was arrested later that night. The next morning, still the Passover day (all biblical days are from sunset to sunset), He was crucified. After dying around 3 p.m., He was later placed in the tomb before the day ended, just as the sun was setting to begin the "high day" (John 19:31). That high Sabbath day had to be the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which immediately follows the Passover. You can read about it in Leviticus 23:5-7.

The annual first Holy Day of Unleavened Bread that year was observed from Wednesday sunset until Thursday sunset. Jesus Christ was buried before sunset on Wednesday, was in the grave three days and three nights—just as He said and He came back to life at the exact time He foretold He would.

To answer the OP's question...Yes, this prophecy was fulfilled, Jesus is the Messiah.

MarkRohfrietsch · Sep 23, 2014

MarkRohfrietsch said:
Mod Hat...

Hi everyone,

This forum is for proposing one-on-one formal, moderated debates as per these instructions stuck at the top of the page: Formal Debate Proposals Guidelines

Please be mindful of this rule which can be found here; Community Rules:

This thread is therefore off topic to this forum so I'm moving it to the exploring Christianity Forum.

Mark
Area Supervisor

MarkRohfrietsch said:
Addendum:

I have also edited the title to bring it into compliance with this forum.

I have also done a bit of a cleanup (I missed something)

contango · Sep 23, 2014

iohannes said:
True if only we all agree that the bible and what it says is the word of god

There is that. But if you start to question what the Bible says, at what point do you regard the whole thing as unreliable and reject all of it?

If it can be shown that parts of the Bible are wrong (to take an obvious example if it could be conclusively shown that Jesus never said "Before Abraham was born, I AM") then we could weed out individual parts of it and accept the rest. But we'd have to apply the same standard of proof to anything else we accepted as representing sound teaching.

If the Bible contains the words of God's prophets then if it contains errors we would need to ask whether God's prophets spoke falsely (in which case they can't be called prophets), or their words were corrupted (which seems unlikely, given the number of manuscripts that have been discovered over the centuries).

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