Are non-Sabbath keepers in danger of "Hell"?

Angelquill said:

We who are Christians are supposed to be salt...in other words, it is our business to preserve the values of our society.

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Wait, what?

By "our society," you mean the society of the Body of Christ, right? You're not talking about any particular earthly nation, right?

Angelquill said:

I just want you to see the moral degradation that is happening, even in the church.
I am trying to get you to understand why I am so against teaching the "no laws" idea, especially to young people, who are already confused enough.
Things are not the way they were when you were a kid, more's the pity.
Our kids need to know that their Heavenly Father, just like their earthly father (if they're lucky enough to have him at home) sets boundaries for His children, because He loves them.

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Moral degradation always happens where people don't truly follow God too many in church just give God lip service relying on the mindset of doing a certain amount of good by not breaking rules gets them by in it all when in fact God commands us in the New Testament to go all out in love for others even to the point of giving the shirt off our backs and loving our enemies. We do not see such a thing under the Law equated.
I would equate grace as pro-love and the Law as anti-hate myself.

RDKirk said:

Wait, what?

By "our society," you mean the society of the Body of Christ, right? You're not talking about any particular earthly nation, right?

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Uh, no...I mean what Christ meant:

Mat_5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Salt, as you probably know, is a preservative.

Sophrosyne said:

Moral degradation always happens where people don't truly follow God too many in church just give God lip service relying on the mindset of doing a certain amount of good by not breaking rules gets them by in it all when in fact God commands us in the New Testament to go all out in love for others even to the point of giving the shirt off our backs and loving our enemies. We do not see such a thing under the Law equated.
I would equate grace as pro-love and the Law as anti-hate myself.

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Well, you have said something I can agree with...sort of. Moral degradation always happens where people don't truly follow God.
If the church would stand together for what we believe...but I fear it is already too late for that.

Those two great commandments actually sum up the original ten:

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Which is not the same thing as abolishing them.
As you have said yourself...if you love your neighbor, you will not do any of the "thou shalt nots" to him.
And if you love the Lord...

Angelquill said:

Well, you have said something I can agree with...sort of. Moral degradation always happens where people don't truly follow God.
If the church would stand together for what we believe...but I fear it is already too late for that.

Those two great commandments actually sum up the original ten:

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39And the secondislike unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Which is not the same thing as abolishing them.
As you have said yourself...if you love your neighbor, you will not do any of the "thou shalt nots" to him.
And if you love the Lord...

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So if you don't keep the Sabbath do you go to hell or not for it?

Sophrosyne said:

So if you don't keep the Sabbath do you go to hell or not for it?

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We are under a covenant of grace. God promised, back there in Jeremiah, that He would forgive our sins.
Now, I'm not the one to tell you who is going to hell and who isn't. As I told you before, I am not on the advisory committee.
However, I suspect that the lake of fire is for people who have caused harm, and suffering...imho.
So I guess it would depend on how your actions affect the people around you.

LittleLambofJesus said:

If Christians do not keep the Jewish/Mosaic 7th day Fri-Sat sabbath, are they in danger of the eternal hellfire?
After all, it is a direct Commandment of the LORD, the 4th Commandment.
Open for discussion.

[This is an offshoot of an old thread shown here]:

http://www.christianforums.com/t5037325-3/

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If Christians pray to the dead, use idols in worship services, call the Pope "Holy Father" are they in danger of eternal hell fire. After all the Bible speaks about not doing all of these things.

Most of us would say that this does not put them in danger of eternal hell fire because - they do it in faith not fully understanding the Bible injunction on the point.

I think that covers a great many subjects.

in Christ,

Bob

Angelquill said:

We are under a covenant of grace. God promised, back there in Jeremiah, that He would forgive our sins.
.

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Indeed - but the OP is not asking "can you confess and repent and then be forgiven of this or that sin" - I think it refers to simply not knowing that God's Ten Commandment are good.

in Christ,

Bob

Angelquill said:

To be fair, loads of people do call Sunday "the Sabbath". I, myself, grew up thinking that Sunday was the actual Sabbath...until I got old enough to read and study for myself, and realized that the Bible never does say that.
I never have figured out how it got to be the one and only designated day for church goers to worship.
Or why people get so emotional about it.

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To be really fair there are many misinformed people who refuse to read their Bibles. To many the Bible is only a symbol.

Angelquill said:

Isn't the whole point of Christianity that we put our faith in Jesus as Savior? Does that mean that we are not to try, to the very best of our ability to walk in the Light, as He was in the Light? Because Christ died for us, does that mean we can now break commandments?

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As a born again Christian I don't have to try. My desires has been changed. Yes occasionally my old nature gets to me. Like Paul said a living sacrifice. The problem is it crawls off the altar.

Angelquill said:

I just want you to see the moral degradation that is happening, even in the church.
I am trying to get you to understand why I am so against teaching the "no laws" idea, especially to young people, who are already confused enough.
Things are not the way they were when you were a kid, more's the pity.
Our kids need to know that their Heavenly Father, just like their earthly father (if they're lucky enough to have him at home) sets boundaries for His children, because He loves them.

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I've seen it all. Its a major reason I can no longer be involved. The truth, God and Jesus aren't welcome there much anymore. Self help sermons are though. I cause to many waves just by being there. Most see a difference and don't understand. One person told me they were jealous of my light glow (I'd call it radiance). One of my close friends said I intimidate just by being present. And I'm a little squirt of 5'7" at 140 pounds. I've taken down a 200 pound plus man to his amazement. He bet me I couldn't.

Angelquill said:

We who are Christians are supposed to be salt...in other words, it is our business to preserve the values of our society.
Have we lost our savor?

We are supposed to be light...no man lights a lamp and hides it under a bushel, but puts it on a lampstand...
Has our light grown dim?

Why? Has love grown cold? You betcha. Why?

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I must be plenty potent salt.

Angelquill said:

Uh, no...I mean what Christ meant:

Mat_5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Salt, as you probably know, is a preservative.

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Its also used on wounds. It cauterizes them I think. It does burn (sting like .... well one get the idea).

Angelquill said:

Well, you have said something I can agree with...sort of. Moral degradation always happens where people don't truly follow God.
If the church would stand together for what we believe...but I fear it is already too late for that.

Those two great commandments actually sum up the original ten:

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Which is not the same thing as abolishing them.
As you have said yourself...if you love your neighbor, you will not do any of the "thou shalt nots" to him.
And if you love the Lord...

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The few that do are very small. That doesn't mean by any means all small churches stand up and are counted.

Angelquill said:

We are under a covenant of grace. God promised, back there in Jeremiah, that He would forgive our sins.
Now, I'm not the one to tell you who is going to hell and who isn't. As I told you before, I am not on the advisory committee.
However, I suspect that the lake of fire is for people who have caused harm, and suffering...imho.
So I guess it would depend on how your actions affect the people around you.

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Then the 4th commandment must not be valid after all. Hmmm!!!!

Angelquill said:

We are under a covenant of grace. God promised, back there in Jeremiah, that He would forgive our sins.
Now, I'm not the one to tell you who is going to hell and who isn't. As I told you before, I am not on the advisory committee.
However, I suspect that the lake of fire is for people who have caused harm, and suffering...imho.
So I guess it would depend on how your actions affect the people around you.

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So in other words you are going around here on people's cases about keeping the 10 commandments like you think it is important but in reality you are clueless as to how important it truly is. If one's salvation doesn't hinge on keeping the 10 then why bother with it at all? Why bother with the mess of keeping even one Sabbath if you don't want to if nothing happens if you don't keep it and we don't even know if there is a reward for keeping it either. It is like buying unicycle insurance and never wanting to own one a waste of resources.

Sophrosyne said:

So in other words you are going around here on people's cases about keeping the 10 commandments like you think it is important but in reality you are clueless as to how important it truly is. If one's salvation doesn't hinge on keeping the 10 then why bother with it at all? Why bother with the mess of keeping even one Sabbath if you don't want to if nothing happens if you don't keep it and we don't even know if there is a reward for keeping it either. It is like buying unicycle insurance and never wanting to own one a waste of resources.

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First of all, I never came here to get on people's cases about keeping the ten commandments. I came here in the first place to try to get SDA types to see that the Sabbath command was never about a day of worship in the first place, and they were arguing about the wrong thing.
However, the minute it became clear that I believe in the law, the "grace camp" as you call it, was all over me. It seems to me that I've been on the defense ever since.
You're the most reasonable of the lot, I'll give you that much at least.
I actually kind of like you, even if you are a stubborn old geezer...kinda like me

So, wait...you think I'm supposed to know who is going to hell and who isn't?
Then, uh...are you telling me that you actually think you KNOW who is going to hell and who is not? Really?
Can you tell the difference between the wheat and the tares? Even the angels didn't seem to have that ability.
Do I think that people who refuse to keep the Lord's Sabbath are going to hell? If my personal opinion counts, which it does not, I'd say that business owners who put their profits ahead of God's Sabbath and refuse to give their employees the day off...yes, probably. Same for people who can afford servants to work for them. If you put your personal convenience ahead of others, you have sinned. Like I said, I think it depends on how your actions affect others. Let's say you don't believe in the Sabbath, but your wife does, and she wants the day to be a day of rest for her, and maybe for her kids. Do you respect her right to keep the Lord's Sabbath...or do you have this inane debate with her, and insist that she get out in the kitchen and rattle some pots and pans? See, it's all about love, dear man. That's the whole point of the law...it has always been all about love.

Uh...how is keeping even one Sabbath a "mess"? That one makes me curious.

Who is Jesus talking about here?
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I don't see anything here to suggest that these guys were lying...as far as we know, they were doing the things they said they were...so what was the problem?

I didn't come to Jesus just to "buy fire insurance".
I came to Him when I was about 12 years old, out of complete fascination. I loved Him, He was my hero. I had to get closer to Him, to know everything about Him...I was, as they say "hooked".
Now, I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I have been the perfect little Christian from then on.
But I've been His fan for over fifty years now...and it is still as exciting as it was when I was 12.

Angelquill said:

First of all, I never came here to get on people's cases about keeping the ten commandments. I came here in the first place to try to get SDA types to see that the Sabbath command was never about a day of worship in the first place, and they were arguing about the wrong thing.
However, the minute it became clear that I believe in the law, the "grace camp" as you call it, was all over me. It seems to me that I've been on the defense ever since.
You're the most reasonable of the lot, I'll give you that much at least.
I actually kind of like you, even if you are a stubborn old geezer...kinda like me

So, wait...you think I'm supposed to know who is going to hell and who isn't?
Then, uh...are you telling me that you actually think you KNOW who is going to hell and who is not? Really?
Can you tell the difference between the wheat and the tares? Even the angels didn't seem to have that ability.
Do I think that people who refuse to keep the Lord's Sabbath are going to hell? If my personal opinion counts, which it does not, I'd say that business owners who put their profits ahead of God's Sabbath and refuse to give their employees the day off...yes, probably. Same for people who can afford servants to work for them. If you put your personal convenience ahead of others, you have sinned. Like I said, I think it depends on how your actions affect others. Let's say you don't believe in the Sabbath, but your wife does, and she wants the day to be a day of rest for her, and maybe for her kids. Do you respect her right to keep the Lord's Sabbath...or do you have this inane debate with her, and insist that she get out in the kitchen and rattle some pots and pans? See, it's all about love, dear man. That's the whole point of the law...it has always been all about love.

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Now you flipped again first you say those who don't keep the Sabbath may not go to hell now you are associating non Sabbath keeping as a ticket to hell which IMO puts you in the anti-grace camp IMO.
The Law has never been about love but IMO survival of a people. Forcing people to stone adulterers to death has not an ounce of love to it or you would want to join in on the action yourself and want to stone sabbath breakers also. Jesus showed love when they were trying to stone the adulterer to death but those under the Law required to stone here were bent on her destruction for her sin. Either Jesus was about love or those under the Law were about love but not both. In other words you seem to have a rather warped idea of what love is when you choose to support the Law over grace.

Uh...how is keeping even one Sabbath a "mess"? That one makes me curious.

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If you are truly serious about properly keeping the Sabbath then you would know what I mean but we know by the way you talk here that you only pretend to keep the Sabbath.... a token keeping of it from the way you carry on about it. I cannot take you or the SDA here as serious sabbath keepers more like to me hypocrites for demanding a token keeping of it to stroke the ego more than to "please" God IMO.

Who is Jesus talking about here?
Mat 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I don't see anything here to suggest that these guys were lying...as far as we know, they were doing the things they said they were...so what was the problem?

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If you really get into who Jesus was talking to here this scripture doesn't equate to the argument here but to false prophets and false teachers who are not truly following God. In other words these people would never be considered Christians.

I didn't come to Jesus just to "buy fire insurance".
I came to Him when I was about 12 years old, out of complete fascination. I loved Him, He was my hero. I had to get closer to Him, to know everything about Him...I was, as they say "hooked".
Now, I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I have been the perfect little Christian from then on.
But I've been His fan for over fifty years now...and it is still as exciting as it was when I was 12.

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I couldn't care less about your walk with God here, as you confess to be a Christian by your icon statements like this don't change one iota your arguments towards me. In other words they are only an attempt to distract and annoy me and it isn't working.

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Angelquill said:

Uh, no...I mean what Christ meant:

Mat_5:13Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Salt, as you probably know, is a preservative.

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That doesn't answer my question. Which society is "our society?"