The law is only for Israel, you say?

Angelquill · Sep 2, 2014

Evidently, some seem to think that the law (including the Ten Commandments) was only intended for Israel...and they have scripture, they think, to "prove" this idea.

So, is the New Covenant "only intended for Israel" as well?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

It seems to me that we either need to stop insisting that the law is "only for Israel"...or go ahead and take it the rest of the way, and understand that the "New Covenant" we think we have is actually "only for Israel" as well...

from scratch · Sep 2, 2014

Angelquill said:
Evidently, some seem to think that the law (including the Ten Commandments) was only intended for Israel...and they have scripture, they think, to "prove" this idea.

So, is the New Covenant "only intended for Israel" as well?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

It seems to me that we either need to stop insisting that the law is "only for Israel"...or go ahead and take it the rest of the way, and understand that the "New Covenant" we think we have is actually "only for Israel" as well...

Do you believe what's written in the book of Acts of the Apostles?

Why don't believe what I bolded and high lighted in blue ?

Angelquill · Sep 2, 2014

from scratch said:
Do you believe what's written in the book of Acts of the Apostles?

Why don't believe what I bolded and high lighted?

What do you think is written in Acts that I don't believe?

Do you mean this text?
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Why do you say I do not believe that?

The question was put...do YOU believe that the New Covenant is only for Israel, and for the house of Judah, as this scripture says?

Come on, Scratch...as I recall, this was YOUR "proof scripture"...what you seem to have proven is that, as a Gentile, you are not included in the "New Covenant" at all.
What sayest thou?

christianmomof3 · Sep 2, 2014

Angelquill said:
Evidently, some seem to think that the law (including the Ten Commandments) was only intended for Israel...and they have scripture, they think, to "prove" this idea.

So, is the New Covenant "only intended for Israel" as well?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

It seems to me that we either need to stop insisting that the law is "only for Israel"...or go ahead and take it the rest of the way, and understand that the "New Covenant" we think we have is actually "only for Israel" as well...

Why does it have to be an all or nothing thing? That particular covenant was with Israel. It seems pretty clear. The Old Testament books are written about Israel and it's history with God. The New Testament is a later set of books and is directed towards the Christians. Do they not have their own covenant? How can you go backwards in time and apply what was written to the Jews then to other people in the present time?

Angelquill · Sep 2, 2014

christianmomof3 said:
Why does it have to be an all or nothing thing? That particular covenant was with Israel. It seems pretty clear. The Old Testament books are written about Israel and it's history with God. The New Testament is a later set of books and is directed towards the Christians. Do they not have their own covenant? How can you go backwards in time and apply what was written to the Jews then to other people in the present time?

This is the prophecy of the "New Covenant", isn't it?
My premise is that we who are Christians are not counted with God as Gentiles, but that we are "grafted in". We are Jews who are Jews inwardly...so, of course, it all applies to us, just as it ever did to the Jews.
You can't separate them, and say, "okay, we'll take this part, but reject that."

Either every word written in the Bible is true...or none of it is.
So, in that sense, I guess it is an "all or nothing" proposition...

from scratch · Sep 2, 2014

Angelquill said:
What do you think is written in Acts that I don't believe?

What Gentile convert was required to join the covenant given at Sinai in Acts? NONE, not a single one.

Do you mean this text?
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;

You really don't understand that's what I said? Really?

Why do you say I do not believe that?

Just read what you've written. I think its pretty self explanatory.

The question was put...do YOU believe that the New Covenant is only for Israel, and for the house of Judah, as this scripture says?

And I responded with read Acts. Acts shows without doubt the New Covenant includes the whole world as in all of mankind upon acceptance. No I don't believe in Israelism. I already covered that with you. Do you need more detail on the subject?

Come on, Scratch...as I recall, this was YOUR "proof scripture"...what you seem to have proven is that, as a Gentile, you are not included in the "New Covenant" at all.Yes and you choose to ignore what it plainly says.

What sayest thou?

Click to expand...

Read the above.

from scratch · Sep 2, 2014

Angelquill said:
This is the prophecy of the "New Covenant", isn't it?
My premise is that we who are Christians are not counted with God as Gentiles, but that we are "grafted in". We are Jews who are Jews inwardly...so, of course, it all applies to us, just as it ever did to the Jews.
You can't separate them, and say, "okay, we'll take this part, but reject that."

Either every word written in the Bible is true...or none of it is.
So, in that sense, I guess it is an "all or nothing" proposition...

On what do you base this belief? You did say every word written in the Bible. Where is your proof text?

Angelquill · Sep 2, 2014

from scratch said:
What Gentile convert was required to join the covenant given at Sinai in Acts? NONE, not a single one..

Where did Philip start, when preaching Jesus to the Ethiopian Eunuch? Do you remember?
Do you honestly not realize that the NT did not even exist during the time of Acts? Really?
When they "searched the scriptures", that meant that what they searched was the Torah.
When Paul talked about "all scriptures are given", he was referring to the Torah.
When Jesus read from the scriptures, He was reading from the Torah.
Do you honestly not get that?

from scratch said:
You really don't understand that's what I said? Really?Just read what you've written. I think its pretty self explanatory..

What Jeremiah is saying here, is that the New Covenant will not be like the Old Covenant, in that Israel broke that covenant. The law was written on stone. This time, He would write His law on their hearts.
You really ought to read the entire scripture, my itchy friend...

from scratch said:
And I responded with read Acts. Acts shows without doubt the New Covenant includes the whole world as in all of mankind upon acceptance. No I don't believe in Israelism. I already covered that with you. Do you need more detail on the subject?

I'm not the one who doesn't realize that ALL of God's Word is intended for the whole world. I think you are the one with that problem, since you are the one who can't seem to "rightly divide the Word of Truth"...

Come on, Scratch...as I recall, this was YOUR "proof scripture"...what you seem to have proven is that, as a Gentile, you are not included in the "New Covenant" at all.

from scratch said:

Yes and you choose to ignore what it plainly says.Read the above.

Click to expand...

Perhaps you need to read your own scripture from Jeremiah again...and this time YOU tell me whether or not YOU believe the parts that I bolded highlighted in red for YOU.
You challenged me with your highlighted text and I answered you.
Honestly, Scratch, let's see some intellectual honesty from you.

Click to expand...

Angelquill · Sep 2, 2014

from scratch said:
On what do you base this belief? You did say every word written in the Bible. Where is your proof text?

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins

Do you understand now? I am, by birth, a Gentile...a "wild olive branch". But God has "graffed" me into His "good tree". My roots are in Judaism.

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The law is only for Israel, you say?

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christianmomof3

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