Are gay rights a civil rights issue?

He is Risen 72 said:

The response was in regards to raising money for the economy. In other words, if raising money for the economy is the only thing that matters, then let’s do it, no holds barred.

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And once I might have shared your indignation. Combat operations in Iraq left me somewhat cynical, however.

Armoured said:

And once I might have shared your indignation. Combat operations in Iraq left me somewhat cynical, however.

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You don’t have to tell me about it, Iraq and Afghanistan certainly changed me. At least we both made it back.

He is Risen 72 said:

Well, its summertime where I’m at and hot and humid, so I’m not wearing any wool, and I can’t afford linen anything, so I think I’m good to go there.

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Cotton polyester.

He is Risen 72 said:

You don’t have to tell me about it, Iraq and Afghanistan certainly changed me. At least we both made it back.

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More or less intact. But it pretty much cured me of any idealism I might have had, or belief that any government or corporation will ever do anything because they should, rather than because of economics.

Anovah said:

I think that in an environment of intolerance, many gay people are reluctant to come forward. Perhaps you've encountered many more gay folks than you realize, but had no idea they are gay. How would you even know?

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Unlike God, I only know people for what they reveal. For those who are not telling, I have no way of knowing. Yet there are some quite telling clues, as already expounded upon. Even so, these clues are in no way determinant of such inclinations, merely clues, tending towards a full picture. Some, however, are perfectly content to keep their sexuality to themselves, and I commend these folk, for I consider sexual preference and acts to be a private matter, I myself, intrepid to discuss with anyone but my husband, and NEVER with children (for they are like angels).

Anovah said:

I can't tell if I'm being poe'd but you seem to be describing a sex crazed cartoonish stereotype that is borderline propaganda.

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Borderline propaganda or no, this is a reality for many so inclined, at least, this is my experience.

Anovah said:

Perhaps the first step should be to humanize these folks.

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I cannot, this is something they have to do for themselves.

Have you ever heard this expression?;
Rom 2:1
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

IOW IMHO; If persons so inclined judge themselves as outcasts by society, they will outcast society because they have judged others as out-casting them. I do not say that they are not really being outcast, for indeed, some have suffered terribly at the hands of others for indulging their sexual inclinations, which aught not be done. But to judge society, rather than the acts, or sins, of each individual, is to discriminate at face.

I believe this is a major reason that some people gravitate sexually towards a transgenderism, even as noted by doctors of psychiatry;

Here is Medscape on such;

Stoller described the psychoanalytic etiology of female transsexualism as unclear but listed some preliminary findings, as follows:

•Neither the mother nor the father of the girl has a gender disorder
•The mother is unable to function in the first months or year of the daughter’s life, because of deep depression (or, in a minority of cases, paranoia or physical illness)
•The child knows that the mother is present but beyond emotional reach
•The father does not minister to his wife; rather, he has the daughter minister to her
•The daughter is described as vigorous, ungraceful, and unattractive in infancy
•The father engages the daughter in activities that interest him, thus promoting masculine behavior
•By the age of 4-5 years, the daughter already yearns to have the anatomic insignias of maleness, a yearning born out of pain and conflict from premature maternal separation

It should be kept in mind that these ideas are preliminary postulates rather than established facts; confirming data are unavailable.

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The above notes a whole lot of judging going on from the children , while their conscience is still developing, perhaps, as suggested, even scarring the children for life.

Anovah said:

There are gay professionals all around this country that deserve our respect. Doctor's, judges, managers, mothers, sons,...etc.

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Is being 'gay' a qualifier that is must be used in every description of the person? Do you see how this person is considered as 'gay' above everything else by you just now, as least in your speech?

Why are they 'gay' professionals, and why point out the fact they are 'gay'?
And if you say it's for the sake of argument, I ask you why argue this?
Is it not enough that they are professionals that they require a 'gay' qualifier?
Why a 'gay' qualifier when being 'gay' has nothing to do with professionalism?
For that matter why the qualifier when being 'human'?

Anovah said:

Setting aside that sexual orientation is not itself a behavior I would describe it as the same compulsion you and I have.

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While it may be true that we all gravitate towards love and acceptance, how we meet these out is directly determinant of how well these legitimate needs will be fulfilled, partially or fully, if at all.

Being married for over 15 years, the good Lord has taught me much on this subject, through some very hard lessons. Man is incapable of meeting my needs for love and acceptance. And to reach out to man for these is as grasping at straws.

The needs exists, and they are legitimate, God given needs, but mankind will always fail, at one point or another, to satisfy our needs for love and acceptance, which can only be meet by God.

See my siggie!

Jn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1 Jn 4:9
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Anovah said:

I know speaking for myself, I don't have a choice in how beautiful I find women and unattractive I find men.

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If, after getting to know the most physically attractive woman in the world, you find that she is inwardly undesirable, for whatever reason, you would no longer be physically attracted.

So yes, we DO have a personal choice in the matter. In fact, some of the very traits that repulsed you, might very well be desirable by other men, for whatever personal reason they chose.

This all boils down to personal choice, and if it is argued that choice is not involved, then it must, by nature, boil down to a genetic default, for the lack of being able to reproduce is an undesirable trait in a species, no?

Anovah said:

No matter how advantageous it would be to date a man I could never be into it.

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That was your choice. You judged for yourself that woman were more advantageous for you to love due to various factors, for whatever reasons you judged woman as advantageous.

Anovah said:

Again, whether someone finds it moral or not does not take away from the fact that self identified gay folks do exist and they should have the same access to rights as the rest of civilization.

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Agreed. Providing their rights do not interfere with the rights of others, such as the right to chose for oneself, within the parameters of societal law. Or infringe upon other special rights groups, such as religious. If so, the inherent harm to each group must be weighed, given that both have the same special rights.

Anovah said:

I appreciate the honesty. If you're concerned about psychological damage, why not take into account the findings of the American Psychological Association who denounces and reject the idea of inherent psychological damage?

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You are sadly mistaken.. Any who are not comfortable within their skin, for whatever reason, are often found in a sad state of mental health, in need of intervention.

Anovah said:

Furthermore, the real psychological damage comes from a gay persons family and friends who decide to disown them...

Georgia student’s family disowns and assaults him in nightmarish gay ‘intervention’ video

(Note: I didn't post the direct youtube link because of language)You tell me which is more damaging.

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Though this may be the experience of some, I am confident they have also received acceptance from their fellow man on many an occasion. Nevertheless, as I pointed our earlier, no man can fully satisfy our need for love and acceptance, only God can, and has. Whether or not a person believes such only affects his present state, not the reality of the love and acceptance He has lavished upon us in Christ.

Anovah said:

Again I direct you to the APA. They can be very helpful.

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Can be yes, though I would be reluctant to throw caution to the wind, in dealings with them.

Anovah said:

As opposed to rejecting their sexuality? How would that be possible?

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By having our minds renewed by God, to a state where we are healed of our past judgements.

Rom 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Tit 3:3-7
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Phil 1:21
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

DaisyDay said:

Cotton polyester.

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Um, ok, show me in the original Hebrew or Greek the word “polyester”, use Strong’s concordance if you need help, don’t worry, I’ll wait.

Armoured said:

More or less intact. But it pretty much cured me of any idealism I might have had, or belief that any government or corporation will ever do anything because they should, rather than because of economics.

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If I didn’t have a family in the states, I’d be in OZ cutting blue gum and drinking billy tea.

Zeena said:

Some, however, are perfectly content to keep their sexuality to themselves, and I commend these folk, for I consider sexual preference and acts to be a private matter, I myself, intrepid to discuss with anyone but my husband, and NEVER with children (for they are like angels).

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So you never tell people that your married to your husband. I think most women do, so I don't see why it would be wrong for a gay person come out as being gay.

He is Risen 72 said:

You know, having a pedophile children’s petting park would also generate money for the economy.

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Given that pedophilia is an illegal act that victimizes people who are incapable of consenting to the acts in question, I would think the inordinate legal fees involved would end up costing money.

I suppose you could set it up as a sting operation, but how many would you actually catch before word got around?

He is Risen 72 said:

The response was in regards to raising money for the economy. In other words, if raising money for the economy is the only thing that matters, then let’s do it, no holds barred.

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yeah, still not seeing how victimizing children for profit is a good idea. Explain?

He is Risen 72 said:

Um, ok, show me in the original Hebrew or Greek the word “polyester”, use Strong’s concordance if you need help, don’t worry, I’ll wait.

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Leviticus 19:19
Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

How Is Poly Cotton Made? | eHow

He is Risen 72 said:

You know, having a pedophile children’s petting park would also generate money for the economy.

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You can go ahead and start that park if you really want to. Sounds like you've got a business plan and everything.

morningstar2651 said:

Leviticus 19:19
Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

How Is Poly Cotton Made? | eHow

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Leviticus 19:19 (KJ21)
19 “‘Ye shall keep My statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle breed with a diverse kind. Thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed; neither shall a garment mingled with linen and wool come upon thee.

Leviticus 19:19 (AMP)
19 You shall keep My statutes. You shall not let your domestic animals breed with a different kind [of animal]; you shall not sow your field with mixed seed, neither wear a garment of linen mixed with wool.


Leviticus 19:19 (GNV)
19 Ye shall keep mine ordinances. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with others of divers kinds. Thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed, neither shall a garment of divers things, as of linen and woolen come upon thee.


Leviticus 19:19 (KJV)
19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.


Leviticus 19:19 (TLB)
19 “Obey my laws: Do not mate your cattle with a different kind; don’t sow your field with two kinds of seed; don’t wear clothes made of half wool and half linen.


Leviticus 19:19 (NKJV)
19 ‘You shall keep My statutes. You shall not let your livestock breed with another kind. You shall not sow your field with mixed seed. Nor shall a garment of mixed linen and wool come upon you.

morningstar2651 said:

You can go ahead and start that park if you really want to. Sounds like you've got a business plan and everything.

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No, sorry, I am a Republican, why would I try to help the economy? I don’t care about the economy at all.

He is Risen 72 said:

No, sorry, I am a Republican, why would I try to help the economy? I don’t care about the economy at all.

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...okay.

morningstar2651 said:

...okay.

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Hey, made about as much sense as the crack about having my business plan…

He is Risen 72 said:

Hey, made about as much sense as the crack about having my business plan…

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You're the one who brought up the idea of Pedophile Park -- if you had a point, it was missed.

Try again, perhaps?

TLK Valentine said:

You're the one who brought up the idea of Pedophile Park -- if you had a point, it was missed.

Try again, perhaps?

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Ok, forget about it. I now fully support gay marriage because we need it to save our economy:

Gay marriage boosts NYC's economy by $259 million in first year - Jul. 24, 2012

Same-Sex Marriage Good for Wedding Business

8 Ways Legalizing Same Sex Marriage Is Good For The Economy

Since some liberals are intent on destroying this country by any means necessary, all patriots should support anything they propose that actually raises some money, no matter how small.

He is Risen 72 said:

Ok, forget about it. I now fully support gay marriage because we need it to save our economy:

Gay marriage boosts NYC's economy by $259 million in first year - Jul. 24, 2012

Same-Sex Marriage Good for Wedding Business

8 Ways Legalizing Same Sex Marriage Is Good For The Economy

Since some liberals are intent on destroying this country by any means necessary, all patriots should support anything they propose that actually raises some money, no matter how small.

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In case you or anyone else is wondering why liberal policies are currently dominating the country while conservative "policies" are currently dominating late-night talk show monologues, this is a pretty good example.

You were given ample opportunity to explain the meaning behind your point of view; this is what we get in return.

He is Risen 72 said:

Since some liberals are intent on destroying this country by any means necessary...

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The scary thing is, you actually believe that...