is there a Christian group for me any more?

christianmomof3 · Aug 29, 2014

Background:
Born and raised in Reform Judaism.
Age 27 became a born again Christian - met with very fundamental Christian group.

No longer believe that only men can teach men or be in positions of authority in the church.
No longer believe that the Bible is inerrant or infallible.
Don't think that homosexuality is a sin.
Don't really believe the whole "virgin" birth thing.
Don't believe in heaven and hell - I have no idea what happens after people die and I don't think it is very relevant anyway since there is nothing we can do about it.
Don't really believe in resurrection either.

Have more questions than answers and I am fine with that because I prefer intelligent questions over stupid answers.

Not sure what category that puts me in.

hedrick · Aug 29, 2014

christianmomof3 said:
Background:
Born and raised in Reform Judaism.
Age 27 became a born again Christian - met with very fundamental Christian group.

No longer believe that only men can teach men or be in positions of authority in the church.
No longer believe that the Bible is inerrant or infallible.
Don't think that homosexuality is a sin.
Don't really believe the whole "virgin" birth thing.
Don't believe in heaven and hell - I have no idea what happens after people die and I don't think it is very relevant anyway since there is nothing we can do about it.
Don't really believe in resurrection either.

Have more questions than answers and I am fine with that because I prefer intelligent questions over stupid answers.

Not sure what category that puts me in.

it makes you not a conservative. Most of this is pretty typical for mainline and liberal Christianity, except for not believing in resurrection. That's at the left end of the spectrum. Generally every pretty liberal Christians find at least a metaphorical meaning in Jesus' resurrection.

christianmomof3 · Aug 29, 2014

I can handle the metaphor idea. Just not the literal one.

Rajni · Aug 29, 2014

christianmomof3 said:
Background:
Born and raised in Reform Judaism.
Age 27 became a born again Christian - met with very fundamental Christian group.

No longer believe that only men can teach men or be in positions of authority in the church.
No longer believe that the Bible is inerrant or infallible.
Don't think that homosexuality is a sin.
Don't really believe the whole "virgin" birth thing.
Don't believe in heaven and hell - I have no idea what happens after people die and I don't think it is very relevant anyway since there is nothing we can do about it.
Don't really believe in resurrection either.

Have more questions than answers and I am fine with that because I prefer intelligent questions over stupid answers.

Not sure what category that puts me in.

I don't know how accurate it really is, but SelectSmart has a
Christian Denomination Selector you could try out if you like. It's a
series of questions and when you've answered them, it generates a
list of your results from highest percentage to lowest, highest being
the denomination you most likely would fit into. You can find it
here: Christian Denomination Selector

-

justhere1 · Aug 30, 2014

The closest thing I can think of is Unitarian Universalist, but I'm not sure if that would really be considered a Christian group.

christianmomof3 · Aug 30, 2014

ok, I did that denomination selector and my results were:
Unity Church (100%)
Liberal Quakerism (89%)
Unitarian Universalism (89%)
Seventh-Day Adventist (68%)
and the rest were below 50%
That is quite different from when I took this kind of online quiz several years ago.
I don't know much about those groups, but there are none of those groups in my area close by and I don't think SDA would really be a good fit for me - I think they threw it in because I don't think Sunday should be the "day of worship" - but that is not because I necessarily thing that it must be Saturday. I do think that Saturday is the Sabbath - that is what the OT says, but I don't think that Christians have to worship on that day or on any particular day of the week. I think any day is fine.
From what I understand, UU is - like you stated - not really Christian - it just seems to be a "we like all religions" group so we want to do some rituals without tying you down to any one particular belief. I really don't care for rituals anyway. Especially meaningless rituals or rituals with false meanings.

I just read the Unity church beliefs and it does sound like I agree with that- although I don't think this part is really correct - "We are each individual, eternal expressions of God. Our essential nature is divine and therefore inherently good." Sadly, there are some people who I don't think are inherently good. I am not sure what is wrong with them - whether it is mental illness or what, but some people seem to be inherently not good.
And I looked at this website Our Philosophy | Unity and the photo of people sitting in chairs with their hands touching looks weird. I would not want to do something like that. It just seems a bit strange and stupid and even creepy to me - is it some sort of "positive affirmation" thing or some strange psychological "feel good" thing? I am not into that sort of thing.

I am not sure what their practices are - anyone here go to a Unity Church?

FireDragon76 · Aug 30, 2014

Why are you interested in Christianity?

I'd encourage you to explore mainline Protestant churches. You may find some of it challenging in some things the mainline does believe (as Hedrick says, mainline Protestants at least believe the resurrection is some kind of reality, even if they don't believe in an empty tomb). I believe the tone might fit you better than Unity or Unitarians.

I'd really recommend Greg Garrett's book, The Other Jesus. It's a good intro to the sort of thing I'm talking about. He's Episcopalian but what he's talking about will be relevant to anybody that is burnt out on conservative Protestant religion, and looking for something more meaningful and relevant. The Other Jesus: Rejecting a Religion of Fear for the God of Love: Greg Garrett: 9780664234041: Amazon.com: Books

Supernaut · Aug 30, 2014

It sounds like the United Church of Christ or the Unitarian Universalism churches might be up your alley.

jax5434 · Aug 31, 2014

No longer believe that the Bible is inerrant or infallible.
Don't think that homosexuality is a sin.
Don't really believe the whole "virgin" birth thing.
Don't believe in heaven and hell - I have no idea what happens after people die and I don't think it is very relevant anyway since there is nothing we can do about it.
Don't really believe in resurrection either.

I don't want to sound harsh but many of the things you don't believe; Virgin Birth, judgement, salvation (if there is no heaven or hell there's nothing to be "saved" from) and the resurrection make up a large chunk of the essential beliefs of the Christian faith. My question is; if that is the case why is clinging to the mantel of "Christian" is important to you?

If, as it seems to me you're saying, you see Jesus as good moral person who died only for what he believed, I am not sure you can do that and remain comfortably under the Christian Umbrella.

God Bless
Jax

Targaryen · Aug 31, 2014

jax5434 said:
I don't want to sound harsh but many of the things you don't believe; Virgin Birth, judgement, salvation (if there is no heaven or hell there's nothing to be "saved" from) and the resurrection make up a large chunk of the essential beliefs of the Christian faith. My question is; if that is the case why is clinging to the mantel of "Christian" is important to you?

If, as it seems to me you're saying, you see Jesus as good moral person who died only for what he believed, I am not sure you can do that and remain comfortably under the Christian Umbrella.

God Bless
Jax

I would have to agree with this point.

XtianAgain · Sep 1, 2014

Believe as you will sister. You have a home right here! Many of us Christians here have various beliefs. I welcome you to hang with us and explore them!

hedrick · Sep 1, 2014

jax5434 said:
I don't want to sound harsh but many of the things you don't believe; Virgin Birth, judgement, salvation (if there is no heaven or hell there's nothing to be "saved" from) and the resurrection make up a large chunk of the essential beliefs of the Christian faith. My question is; if that is the case why is clinging to the mantel of "Christian" is important to you?

Not really.

I don't think it's common, but it's certainly possible for liberal Christians to believe that there's no afterlife, and salvation is about reconciliation with each other and God in our earthly lives.

But the OP didn't go that far. The OP didn't reject judgement. It rejected heaven and hell. There can be judgement and accountability without hell. It's quite common to see among liberal Christians a kind of agnosticism about exactly what happens after death. That's not the same thing as rejecting Jesus' teaching about eternal life. Rather it's a reaction to the variety of over-detailed theologies about what happens, and the centrality of those speculations to some people's faith.

For Jesus the Gospel is about reconciling people with God and each other, and bringing them into the Kingdom. He uses the threat of hell as a motivator (which is why I personally don't think it makes sense to reject its existence), but saving people from hell doesn't seem to be his main goal. Indeed I'd argue that people who see salvation in terms of avoiding hell have missed the point.

The OP also (from a later exchange) accepts a resurrection that doesn't involve an empty tomb. Again, I don't personally think that makes a lot of sense. But it's common among the more liberal part of the mainline churches.

The OP would be welcome in many (though not all) PCUSA churches, and I believe the same is true of the other mainline churches.

hedrick · Sep 1, 2014

jax5434 said:
If, as it seems to me you're saying, you see Jesus as good moral person who died only for what he believed, I am not sure you can do that and remain comfortably under the Christian Umbrella.

I agree that someone who thinks Jesus is a moral teacher only is probably not Christian.

But there's a part of liberal Christian theology that sees him as being given by God the mission of reconciling people to each other and God, but without being different in kind from other humans. It tends to see the crucifixion as an example, but not as a sacrifice in the OT sense.

While this isn't a part of the tradition I'm interested in, it's not fair to accuse it of making Jesus just a moral teacher, because his mission is about our relationship with God, not just morals. While people who hold this belief think it's possible to follow God through other religious traditions, they normally try to see Jesus as more than just one of many religious teachers. These theologies normally have a sense of spiritual communion with Christ. Historically I'm thinking of Schleiermacher, but the same things can be said about people like Marcus Borg. I don't have any doubt that they're Christians, or that Christ accepts them as his people, even though I don't agree with them. (Indeed the OP might find some of Borg's books interesting, e.g. "The Heart of Christianity.")

elman · Sep 1, 2014

There is no perfect group or church. Everything that has men and women in it is imperfect.

jax5434 · Sep 1, 2014

I don't think it's common, but it's certainly possible for liberal Christians to believe that there's no afterlife, and salvation is about reconciliation with each other and God in our earthly lives.

Its certainly possible to believe that. For some its possible to believe that God has predestined some people for hell. Its possible for some to believe that Jesus was a cynic philosopher, Its possible to believe that Jesus was the illegitimate son of Ben Pantera. It is possible to believe all manner of things about Jesus.

But at some point you leave the realm of historical, biblical Christianity and begin to re-imagine Jesus into what want him to be. If you want a Jesus who is more, or less, than what is revealed in scripture; and the things I mentioned are all found there (including a literal physical resurrection) that is your right. But at some point you lose the right to claim to be a follower of the Son of God found in the only record we have of him.

Christianity is a big tent but not a boundless one. To think otherwise is foolish.

God Bless
Jax

rich1540 · Sep 1, 2014

hedrick said:
Not really.

I don't think it's common, but it's certainly possible for liberal Christians to believe that there's no afterlife, and salvation is about reconciliation with each other and God in our earthly lives.

But the OP didn't go that far. The OP didn't reject judgement. It rejected heaven and hell. There can be judgement and accountability without hell. It's quite common to see among liberal Christians a kind of agnosticism about exactly what happens after death. That's not the same thing as rejecting Jesus' teaching about eternal life. Rather it's a reaction to the variety of over-detailed theologies about what happens, and the centrality of those speculations to some people's faith.

For Jesus the Gospel is about reconciling people with God and each other, and bringing them into the Kingdom. He uses the threat of hell as a motivator (which is why I personally don't think it makes sense to reject its existence), but saving people from hell doesn't seem to be his main goal. Indeed I'd argue that people who see salvation in terms of avoiding hell have missed the point.

The OP also (from a later exchange) accepts a resurrection that doesn't involve an empty tomb. Again, I don't personally think that makes a lot of sense. But it's common among the more liberal part of the mainline churches.

The OP would be welcome in many (though not all) PCUSA churches, and I believe the same is true of the other mainline churches.

What a truly inspiring post. It is exactly what i would fail to articulate. Thank you Hendrick.

To me the foundation of our faith is that Jesus and God the father are one and the same. Nothing else matters apart from that conviction. That is my rock, my love, my joy, my sorrow and my life.

I see churches as like clubs, say a stamp collectors club. It is the stamps that matter, nothing else. That reminds me that i need to read CS Lewis again.

christianmomof3, you description of yourself is much of how i would describe myself. Id suggest Anglicans or some other mainsteam group. I definitely wouldn't invest too much emotional energy in not being or being part of a particular church. You need to attend of course, but its nothing to sweat over which church it is. The danger of course is that all too powerful fear of rejection. Remember it is not about us and our desires. It is Christ. Period.

I hope you find a great bunch of brothers and sisters soon, bro.

Targaryen · Sep 1, 2014

rich1540 said:
What a truly inspiring post. It is exactly what i would fail to articulate. Thank you Hendrick.

To me the foundation of our faith is that Jesus and God the father are one and the same. Nothing else matters apart from that conviction. That is my rock, my love, my joy, my sorrow and my life.

I see churches as like clubs, say a stamp collectors club. It is the stamps that matter, nothing else. That reminds me that i need to read CS Lewis again.

christianmomof3, you description of yourself is much of how i would describe myself. Id suggest Anglicans or some other mainsteam group. I definitely wouldn't invest too much emotional energy in not being or being part of a particular church. You need to attend of course, but its nothing to sweat over which church it is. The danger of course is that all too powerful fear of rejection. Remember it is not about us and our desires. It is Christ. Period.

I hope you find a great bunch of brothers and sisters soon, bro.

Anglicans affirm the Creeds though. One of our biggest issues in the church is the history that Spong left behind. While he got the liberal voice active, he did so that for a fair number of us, rejected crucial things to orthodox Christianity.

I don't think the OP would like it much if she was expected on each Sunday to affirm her faith in the words of either the Nicene or Apostle's Creeds.

FireDragon76 · Sep 1, 2014

LiberalAnglicanCatholic said:
I don't think the OP would like it much if she was expected on each Sunday to affirm her faith in the words of either the Nicene or Apostle's Creeds.

Why is that a good thing? Does Jesus ever tell us "think like everyone else, or else"?

Targaryen · Sep 1, 2014

FireDragon76 said:
Why is that a good thing? Does Jesus ever tell us "think like everyone else, or else"?

Anglicanism promotes orthodox Christianity FireDragon, an orthodox Christianity that Jesus taught and the NT taught and was defined in the bible and the Creeds.
The OP said she no longer believes in certain things that orthodox Christianity holds as not only true but essential.

FireDragon76 · Sep 1, 2014

LiberalAnglicanCatholic said:
Anglicanism promotes orthodox Christianity FireDragon, an orthodox Christianity that Jesus taught and the NT taught and was defined in the bible and the Creeds.
The OP said she no longer believes in certain things that orthodox Christianity holds as not only true but essential.

Yes, but Anglican beliefs don't exhaust what it means to be a Christian. There are plenty of Christian groups that do not accept creeds as part of their religious and spiritual life.

You call yourself a liberal Christian but the idea that Jesus taught all the propositions in the Nicene Creed is intellectually naïve.

is there a Christian group for me any more?

pursuing Christ

Senior Veteran

pursuing Christ

☯ Ego ad Eum pertinent ☯

Junior Member

pursuing Christ

Well-Known Member

What did they aim for when they missed your heart?

Member

Scripture,Tradition and Reason

Jesus Junkie

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

elman

Member

Regular Member

Scripture,Tradition and Reason

Well-Known Member

Scripture,Tradition and Reason

Well-Known Member

Similar threads