The “Joseph Smith Translation” of the Bible

Ironhold

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One thing people keep forgetting about the KJV -

At the time Joseph lived, if you were an English-speaking Protestant, odds were you used a KJV.

Even today, the KJV remains one of the more dominant English-language translations.

In that sense, the KJV has become a rather unifom standard for conversation among Protestants and certain Restorationalists.




As an aside, I use multiple translations, and in fact have a rather large "omnibus" with four different translations that I use in addition to my church-edition KJV.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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"That website" is the official website of the LDS church, and the statement I provided comes from the highest authority in the Church. It answers your question authoritatively. Why are you so dismissive of it?
If you want taken seriously your assertion that this statement is false, you'll need to provide statements by each president of the Church in which they encourage members to discontinue using the KJV.
That Joseph Smith produced an edited version of the KJV in the JST is an indisputable fact. Your assertion that he believed or claimed that the Bible was "severely corrupted" or "ridiculously inaccurate" is no supported by this fact. Do you have something to offer to substantiate these ideas, other than your own opinion?

Yes, it is the official website of the LDS Church. I spent very much time there while I was researching the LDS Church. There are numerous websites that attack the LDS Church, but when I research a Christian denomination or a pseudo-Christian cult, I concentrate on the writings of the organization itself.

The website states, in part,

All of the Presidents of the Church, beginning with the Prophet Joseph Smith, have supported the King James Version by encouraging its continued use in the Church. In light of all the above, it is the English language Bible used by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.​

The statement that “All of the Presidents of the Church, beginning with the Prophet Joseph Smith, have supported the King James Version by encouraging its continued use in the Church” is not true because Joseph Smith did not encourage its continued use in the Church, but gave the Church the Joseph Smith Translation in which he “corrected” the KJV in hundreds of places. I dismissed the answer because it is based on incorrect information.

If the hundreds of “corrections” that Joseph Smith made to the KJV were accurate corrections, that would necessarily mean that the KJV was “severely corrupted” and “ridiculously inaccurate.” Joseph Smith did not only teach that the KJV was severely corrupted and ridiculously inaccurate, he proved that it was by producing for the Church through divine revelation the Joseph Smith Translation!

If the Joseph Smith Translation was what Joseph Smith claimed that it was, how could the Church responsibly use the KJV as its official translation of the Bible while relegating the hundreds of divinely inspired corrections to footnotes and an appendix?

The LDS Church claims that,

“in doctrinal matters latter-day revelation supports the King James Version in preference to other English translations.”

And that includes, of course, the divinely inspired Joseph Smith Translation! Did latter-day revelation proof that the divinely inspired Joseph Smith Translation was not divinely inspired? I have had some latter-day revelations myself—and one of them was about Romans 7:14-25. That was many years ago when I was a young Christian and knew next to nothing about the Bible. I compared my latter-day revelation with thirteen commentaries on Romans. Twelve of those commentaries shot my revelation to pieces, while the thirteenth was noncommittal. I prayed fervently to God for a confirmation of my latter-day revelation and God rebuked me for questioning His revelation to me. I then knew as certainly as I know my name that my latter-day revelation came from God Almighty. However, since the interpretation of Romans 7:14-25 was now so crystal clear to me, having received it from God Himself, I found it difficult to understand how so many people, including some prominent Bible scholars, could not understand it. Therefore, I studied in great detail the history of the interpretation of Romans 7:14-25 and the theological presuppositions responsible for the interpretations given by men throughout the history of the church. Today, the interpretation of Romans 7:14-25 most commonly taught by New Testament scholars is the interpretation given to me by God.

Joseph Smith could not have been more wrong in his interpretation of Romans 7:14-25. His interpretation is not only radically different than the one given to me by God Almighty, but his text of Romans 7:14-25 is radically different from every ancient Greek, Latin, Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, and Syriac manuscript of Paul’s Epistle to the Romans (there are thousands of these ancient manuscripts). God is not a man that He should lie, but Joseph Smith….
 
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PrincetonGuy

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You seem to be confusing the JST and the "Inspired version."

I am not confusing them—they are the same thing! The LDS Church refers to it as the Joseph Smith Translation; the Community of Christ (the reformed LSDS Church) calls it the Inspired Version.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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I admire that about the LDS, they do not discourage anyone from reading and learning
from Holy Scripture. This shows a confidence that not all in religion allow.

Most unfortunately, the LDS Church teaches that the Bible, as it has come down to us, contains very serious omissions (imaginary parts that they falsely claim have been lost), and that additions have been added to it, and that the Book of Mormon is a far more accurate source of truth. Consequently, even their missionaries know very little about the Bible.

I have shown Mormon missionaries quotes about the Bible from current professors at Brigham Young University and have seen their faces turn red when they learn what the teachers in their church teach about the inadequacy of the Bible. These missionaries may not read the Bible like they should, but they know in their heart that it is the word of God. Indeed, current professors at Brigham Young University believe that the New Testament is of so little value that not a single one of the faculty members has ever read the New Testament in its original language—Greek. I know that they have not because none of them have bothered to learn Greek so that they could read it! No, I did not get this from an anti-Mormon website—I got it from the faculty members themselves.
 
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TasteForTruth

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Yes, it is the official website of the LDS Church. I spent very much time there while I was researching the LDS Church. There are numerous websites that attack the LDS Church, but when I research a Christian denomination or a pseudo-Christian cult, I concentrate on the writings of the organization itself.

The website states, in part,
All of the Presidents of the Church, beginning with the Prophet Joseph Smith, have supported the King James Version by encouraging its continued use in the Church. In light of all the above, it is the English language Bible used by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.​
The statement that “All of the Presidents of the Church, beginning with the Prophet Joseph Smith, have supported the King James Version by encouraging its continued use in the Church” is not true because Joseph Smith did not encourage its continued use in the Church, but gave the Church the Joseph Smith Translation in which he “corrected” the KJV in hundreds of places. I dismissed the answer because it is based on incorrect information.

If the hundreds of “corrections” that Joseph Smith made to the KJV were accurate corrections, that would necessarily mean that the KJV was “severely corrupted” and “ridiculously inaccurate.” Joseph Smith did not only teach that the KJV was severely corrupted and ridiculously inaccurate, he proved that it was by producing for the Church through divine revelation the Joseph Smith Translation!

If the Joseph Smith Translation was what Joseph Smith claimed that it was, how could the Church responsibly use the KJV as its official translation of the Bible while relegating the hundreds of divinely inspired corrections to footnotes and an appendix?

The LDS Church claims that,

“in doctrinal matters latter-day revelation supports the King James Version in preference to other English translations.”

And that includes, of course, the divinely inspired Joseph Smith Translation! Did latter-day revelation proof that the divinely inspired Joseph Smith Translation was not divinely inspired? I have had some latter-day revelations myself—and one of them was about Romans 7:14-25. That was many years ago when I was a young Christian and knew next to nothing about the Bible. I compared my latter-day revelation with thirteen commentaries on Romans. Twelve of those commentaries shot my revelation to pieces, while the thirteenth was noncommittal. I prayed fervently to God for a confirmation of my latter-day revelation and God rebuked me for questioning His revelation to me. I then knew as certainly as I know my name that my latter-day revelation came from God Almighty. However, since the interpretation of Romans 7:14-25 was now so crystal clear to me, having received it from God Himself, I found it difficult to understand how so many people, including some prominent Bible scholars, could not understand it. Therefore, I studied in great detail the history of the interpretation of Romans 7:14-25 and the theological presuppositions responsible for the interpretations given by men throughout the history of the church. Today, the interpretation of Romans 7:14-25 most commonly taught by New Testament scholars is the interpretation given to me by God.

Joseph Smith could not have been more wrong in his interpretation of Romans 7:14-25. His interpretation is not only radically different than the one given to me by God Almighty, but his text of Romans 7:14-25 is radically different from every ancient Greek, Latin, Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, and Syriac manuscript of Paul’s Epistle to the Romans (there are thousands of these ancient manuscripts). God is not a man that He should lie, but Joseph Smith….
I'm not interested in debating your private interpretation of Rom 7:14-25 here. This thread was to answer the following question:
Why is the KJV the official Bible of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
That question was answered in post #2:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints uses the KJV because latter-day revelation supports the KJV above other versions. (see https://www.lds.org/ensign/1992/08/...-the-king-james-version-of-the-bible?lang=eng )
Your speculation about why the Church favors the KJV (which contains, in the official LDS version, a large amount of the JST) over the JST alone is immaterial to the statement of the First Presidency I provided.

That said, any time you want to produce the statements by LDS presidents that support your position below (bolded)...
"All of the Presidents of the Church, beginning with the Prophet Joseph Smith, have supported the King James Version by encouraging its continued use in the Church."​
This statement is absolutely false!
...I will be here waiting.
 
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TasteForTruth

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So the LDS Church is unconcerned about BYU profs inculcating error in their students?
What does that question have to do with either the OP, or my correction of the misinformation being promulgated by PrincetonGuy and Bigdaddy4?
 
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TasteForTruth

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It was a response to YOUR post #28. Shall we just agree with you or not ask questions? This is a debate forum. Your point was challenged.
Your question does not challenge anything I said in post #28. But if you think it does, please indicate how.
 
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Ironhold

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I have shown Mormon missionaries quotes about the Bible from current professors at Brigham Young University and have seen their faces turn red when they learn what the teachers in their church teach about the inadequacy of the Bible.

BYU has non-Mormon professors.

Did you stop to investigate the religious affiliation of each of the professors you cited?
 
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B

bbbbbbb

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BYU has non-Mormon professors.

Did you stop to investigate the religious affiliation of each of the professors you cited?

I don't get it. If I decided to visit a Catholic seminary and asked the Catholic priests who teach at the seminary about the Catholic faith, should I expect them to give me Mormon answers? I rather doubt they would, don't you?

When non-LDS such as myself seek answers concerning your faith we can find them on-line or, even better, from direct sources hired by your church to teach in your church's university. Now we are supposed to think that you know more than they do and that they cannot be trusted, but you should be trusted.

To further the discussion, what do you think of this? https://www.lds.org/ensign/1997/08/...n-plain-and-precious-things-restored?lang=eng
 
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drstevej

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Interesting. They admit it is revision not translation.

The Prophet did not “translate” the Bible in the traditional sense of the word—that is, go back to the earliest Hebrew and Greek manuscripts to make a new rendering into English. Rather, he went through the biblical text of the King James Version and made inspired corrections, revisions, and additions to the biblical text.

Inspired by WHOM is the question.
 
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TasteForTruth

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I don't get it. If I decided to visit a Catholic seminary and asked the Catholic priests who teach at the seminary about the Catholic faith, should I expect them to give me Mormon answers? I rather doubt they would, don't you?

When non-LDS such as myself seek answers concerning your faith we can find them on-line or, even better, from direct sources hired by your church to teach in your church's university. Now we are supposed to think that you know more than they do and that they cannot be trusted, but you should be trusted.
This whole discussion has become juvenile. The OP poses a question. The First Presidency of the LDS church, which is its highest governing authority, releases a statement that directly answers the question. And four pages later, people are still speculating... now about the authority of BYU professors vs. lay members.

It seems a safe conclusion, then, that some people aren't interested in the truth, but in grasping at straws until they find some shred of something that they might be able to leverage to dupe the gullible into accepting their erroneous preconception as reality.
 
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drstevej

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It seems a safe conclusion, then, that some people aren't interested in the truth, but in grasping at straws until they find some shred of something that they might be able to leverage to dupe the gullible into accepting their erroneous preconception as reality.

"If, at first, you don't succeed... try not using a straw man fallacy."
 
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Ironhold

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I don't get it. If I decided to visit a Catholic seminary and asked the Catholic priests who teach at the seminary about the Catholic faith, should I expect them to give me Mormon answers?

BYU isn't a seminary by any means.

It's a private four-year college.

The church subsidizes the cost of tuition so that people who might not otherwise afford tuition at such a large facility can attend... hence the decision to have it chartered as a private college instead of a public one.

The church does require a code of conduct and a minimum number of credit hours of theology, but beyond that students - which include a number of non-Mormons - are on their own. It's far less restrictive or demanding in this regards than such non-Mormon schools as the University of Mary Hardin-Baylor, which is infamous locally for its strict code and the mandatory attendance of chapel services.

While a person can major in theology at BYU, it's far from the only course of study. In fact, at one point BYU's Marriott School of Business was consistently ranked as one of the top 40 B-schools in the nation. BYU is also famous for its animation program and its nursing program, and from what I understand has a fairly respectable law school as well.
 
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IchoozJC

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This whole discussion has become juvenile. The OP poses a question. The First Presidency of the LDS church, which is its highest governing authority, releases a statement that directly answers the question. And four pages later, people are still speculating... now about the authority of BYU professors vs. lay members.

It seems a safe conclusion, then, that some people aren't interested in the truth, but in grasping at straws until they find some shred of something that they might be able to leverage to dupe the gullible into accepting their erroneous preconception as reality.

When you are dealing with false religions like mormonism, you can't just take what their high ranking officials stated as fact. That would be rather silly, now wouldn't it?
 
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TasteForTruth

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When you are dealing with false religions like mormonism, you can't just take what their high ranking officials stated as fact. That would be rather silly, now wouldn't it?
Hey... I think you're onto something. I mean, they're all liars—they've gotta be. So let's just make stuff up that appeals to our senses and call it the truth...

:thumbsup:
 
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Ironhold

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When you are dealing with false religions like mormonism, you can't just take what their high ranking officials stated as fact. That would be rather silly, now wouldn't it?

*headdesk*

Your comment is so inane that I'm having trouble not screaming right now.

You basically just stated that you would rather remain in willful ignorance because actually educating yourself would require challenging your own pre-conceived notions.
 
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IchoozJC

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Hey... I think you're onto something. I mean, they're all liars—they've gotta be. So let's just make stuff up that appeals to our senses and call it the truth...

:thumbsup:

You may think they are all liars. I don't. Some, but I believe the majority are just deceived by the Father of lies.
 
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