John Owen's Arminian dilemma
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John 3:14-18 proves that all were provided for. Leviticus 23:26-32 confirms that those that did not deny themselves would be cut off. See tall73's post: http://www.christianforums.com/t7836789-16/#post66167763
Where have you dealt with tall73's point?
You already know why:
v.11 Whether, then, it I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
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Would be a reference to attempting to exegete John 3 when one is still not sure what 'world' means.
So no response then.
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Those that do not believe in the name of the Son of God are condemned. Since you cannot be condemned for something that is not available as an option then believing in the name of the God's son is open to all. Believing in His name entails believing in what He did (His crucifixion, resurrection, miracles and teachings), so therefore, His death was intended for all men (in the sense of providing salvation).
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A perfect example of the provision God made - Judas Iscariot:
Luke 22:17-22
After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed. But woe to that man who betrays him!”
Luke 22:17-22
After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed. But woe to that man who betrays him!”
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If Christ propitiated for unbelief per your definition, what's left to be done? God's wrath is completely satisfied right?
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Since your post didn't actually address what it said, how can I respond?
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All done but regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification.
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But one's unbelief has been paid for already, right? Obviously your working definition is wrong.
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The post proves that your definition of the atonement is wrong.
And you are unable to refute tall73's point.
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What is clear, is that the Calvinist has man as a mere after thought who just follows the exact path laid out for him.
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FreeGrace2
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Sez you. The snake was raise for ALL who had been bitten with a fatal bite from a snake. Just as Jesus was raised for ALL sinners who are born dead in their trespasses. That's the truth.
The snake wasn't for the Israelites who hadn't been bitten. Only for those NEEDING deliverance. Just as ALL of humanity NEEDS salvation.
That was the point of the analogy.
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FreeGrace2
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jan, could you cite his point here. I can't find any post by him. Thanks.
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Yes, it has. Unbelief is a sin. We are justified by faith. My working definition is just fine.
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That you didn't address my post proves my definition is wrong? M'kay.
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