Is transgender a form of defiance?

Autumnleaf · Aug 24, 2014

It seems like it is a denial of what a person is born to be. I hear of hate speech and sort of roll my eyes at that as I think its an attempt to dismiss the point of what the person is trying to say.

It seems like the real hate involves how the person feels about themselves that they feel they have to go to the length of physically mutilating themselves and denying what they are, then they pretend to be something they are not. If they are successful at the lie they tend to take pride in it.

I have trouble understanding such things.

KCfromNC · Aug 24, 2014

Autumnleaf said:
It seems like it is a denial of what a person is born to be.

Proof that people are "born to be" anything at all and a rigorous way to determine what that thing specifically is, please.

Gadarene · Aug 24, 2014

Seems like the opposite to me in many ways. If gender is a social construct as a number of progressives assert then why should some people feel a biological reaction to it like dysphoria?

They might be changing sex but in terms of gender it still seems to conform to the old sorts of standards.

prov1810 · Aug 24, 2014

Let's just slow down and try to understand the motives. People who pursue gender reassignment aren't trying to deconstruct gender. They aren't trying to change the culture. They have a deep, lifelong conviction that they are a certain gender and they are trying to be their own authentic selves.

Gadarene · Aug 24, 2014

prov1810 said:
Let's just slow down and try to understand the motives. People who pursue gender reassignment aren't trying to deconstruct gender. They aren't trying to change the culture. They have a deep, lifelong conviction that they are a certain gender and they are trying to be their own authentic selves.

Which arguably is conformist if you're not trying to deconstruct gender.

And radically changing your body to conform to that system shows rather a strong commitment to it nonetheless.

prov1810 · Aug 24, 2014

Gadarene said:
And radically changing your body to conform to that system shows rather a strong commitment to it nonetheless.

And that's the ironic thing - no one thinks gender is more real than transgenders and the traditionalists who oppose them.

ihavefoundgod951 · Aug 24, 2014

Maybe its a hormone imbalance, too much estrogen.

I'm a really big boxing fan, something that caught me by surprise lately is boxing promoter frank Maloney coming out of the closet as a transgender female named Kelly.
This came from left field because the Frank i know was a very macho alpha male, this news totally blew my mind.
But look hey I have no opinion about transgenders, its not me they have to answer too, its God, what they do is between themselves and God.

Gadarene · Aug 24, 2014

prov1810 said:
And that's the ironic thing - no one thinks gender is more real than transgenders and the traditionalists who oppose them.

It reminds me of atheists whose atheism is a full identity all of its own beyond what it typically refers to - simply a lack of belief in deities.

I'd argue you're still defining your life by theism/gender even though you've rejected them if they form a large part of your identity in that way.

FireDragon76 · Aug 24, 2014

Autumnleaf said:
It seems like the real hate involves how the person feels about themselves that they feel they have to go to the length of physically mutilating themselves and denying what they are .

the first bit doesn't bother me so much, but the last bit strikes me as authoritarian. Who gets to decide what a person is?

poolerboy0077 · Aug 24, 2014

I don't get why hermaphroditism is fully understood as a biological error and that the person is simply trying to live a fulfilling life but because transgenderism occurs at the level of the brain it must be some sort of conspiracy, defiance or other malicious motivation. My goodness. Haven't these people suffered enough?

Supernaut · Aug 24, 2014

poolerboy0077 said:
I don't get why hermaphroditism is fully understood as a biological error and that the person is simply trying to live a fulfilling life but because transgenderism occurs at the level of the brain it must be some sort of conspiracy, defiance or other malicious motivation. My goodness. Haven't these people suffered enough?

It is interesting that certain people can believe so much on faith....and yet require physical proof of other things...it is quite the paradox.

KitKatMatt · Aug 24, 2014

No, it's not.

Autumnleaf · Aug 24, 2014

poolerboy0077 said:
I don't get why hermaphroditism is fully understood as a biological error and that the person is simply trying to live a fulfilling life but because transgenderism occurs at the level of the brain it must be some sort of conspiracy, defiance or other malicious motivation. My goodness. Haven't these people suffered enough?

Is it a biological error? I would say we're all created the way we are on purpose. I guess if someone views how they are as a biological error they might take it upon themselves to correct that error/perception instead of embracing who they are how they are.

KitKatMatt · Aug 24, 2014

I'm biologically wired to have severe anxiety. I sure as HELL ain't embracing that, and will try to "correct" it as much as I possibly can.

It's an error. I do think I was purposefully created to have it so that I could learn from it, and have a different perspective on life, but it's still an error that needs to be treated so that I can actually live.

That's how I view the transgender issue also. It's a medical problem that needs to be treated (and right now the best treatment ranges from crossdressing, to HRT, to sexual reassignment). They may fully have been created purposefully with the condition so that they may learn something new about themselves and the world and help us develop more ideas and information about us all, but it's still an issue to be treated just like any other medical problem.

Strange how I never see people raising a fuss over treating people with other defects.

Supernaut · Aug 24, 2014

KitKatMatt said:
I'm biologically wired to have severe anxiety. I sure as HELL ain't embracing that, and will try to "correct" it as much as I possibly can.

It's an error. I do think I was purposefully created to have it so that I could learn from it, and have a different perspective on life, but it's still an error that needs to be treated so that I can actually live.

That's how I view the transgender issue also. It's a medical problem that needs to be treated (and right now the best treatment ranges from crossdressing, to HRT, to sexual reassignment). They may fully have been created purposefully with the condition so that they may learn something new about themselves and the world and help us develop more ideas and information about us all, but it's still an issue to be treated just like any other medical problem.

Strange how I never see people raising a fuss over treating people with other defects.

poolerboy0077 · Aug 24, 2014

Autumnleaf said:
Is it a biological error? I would say we're all created the way we are on purpose. I guess if someone views how they are as a biological error they might take it upon themselves to correct that error/perception instead of embracing who they are how they are.

Let me ask you something. Is there any error to what biology produces? If a person is born like this:

would it be unreasonable by your standards to try to correct the problem?

If someone is born male but with a vagina (hermaphrodites/intersexed) should someone not try to get surgery because they should just conform to what you consider to be what they are? It's very easy when you're in a privileged position to cavalierly dismiss any of these endeavors when you're not the one suffering them.

Strathos · Aug 24, 2014

Gadarene said:
Which arguably is conformist if you're not trying to deconstruct gender.

And radically changing your body to conform to that system shows rather a strong commitment to it nonetheless.

You are confusing gender with sex. They are two separate things.

Paradoxum · Aug 24, 2014

Autumnleaf said:
I have trouble understanding such things.

Consider this:

In the future a male brain is transplanted into a female body. Would you agree that it might make sense for the male to feel as if there were something wrong?

Consider this:

Imagine if someone's genetics were wrong, so they grew a 'male' brain, but a female body. Wouldn't they be in a similar position to the first person? They are male, but their body doesn't match it.

Does that help you understand it? 'Who' the person is doesn't match their body, because for whatever reason, they have developed differently.

MehGuy · Aug 24, 2014

Yeah. I have a tough time understanding this too.

Like what is a female and a male brain anyways..

If someone transplanted my brain onto the body of a woman, I don't think I'd really care. For me it would be as trivial as changing a different hair color.

Perhaps I'm agender.. lol.

IDK.. I heard some people claim they "feel" like a man or "feel" like a woman.. I'd put neither..

FireDragon76 · Aug 24, 2014

Autumnleaf said:
Is it a biological error? I would say we're all created the way we are on purpose. I guess if someone views how they are as a biological error they might take it upon themselves to correct that error/perception instead of embracing who they are how they are.

In the Jewish/Christian tradition, but especially the Jewish tradition, there is a strong mandate to alleviate suffering. That's what many doctors who work in gender reassignment are really trying to do.

Is transgender a form of defiance?

Legend

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prov1810

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prov1810

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What did they aim for when they missed your heart?

stupid bleeding heart feminist liberal

Legend

stupid bleeding heart feminist liberal

What did they aim for when they missed your heart?

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No one important

Liberty, Equality, Solidarity!

A member of the less neotenous sex..

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