The question of pasts (moved from Singles forum)

Yeah..that is not helping....or is it? LOL

Reeses pieces and cups is definitely one of my favorite candies; who new peanut butter in a candy shell/chocolate could be so good.

*dreamy sigh*

leothelioness said:

I see this issue brought up a lot in these forums and others as well; the issue of a SO's sexual past.

Why do people worry so much about it? It's not something you can change, it happened before you met that person, so why worry about it? I don't get it. I personally wouldn't be concerned at all about it. I would tend towards a "don't ask, don't tell" method.

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I remember a couple of people I went to school with who took their own lives. Probably we all do. Life is hard enough without continually opening past wounds. Make all things new or you will always repeat the past.

Compared to knowing God so much of what people chase after is just dross. If you love the Lord and your spouse does too, that is more important than ticking all the socially conditioned boxes.

Inkachu said:

Apologize for what? They didn't do anything to you if it happened before they met you!

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Ive always held that sex should only be between a man and a woman who are married. This is pretty bibical, this means that my body is only meant for one woman on this planet to ever be sexual with, and vice versa. If I was to go have sex with a woman right now, I would be wronging my future wife because sex was only meant for her. I committed adultery against her, because sex is ONLY to be with her. Same the other way around if it was her having sex with someone. Purity is important, I'm not afraid to say I want to marry a virgin, I'll even go as far to say short of god opening the heavens and saying "marry her" I wouldn't. Its not that I think any less of them, or that I can't be there friend (most of my friends arn't virgins), but it means I don't want to share the rest of my life with them.

We arn't talking about a handshake here, sex is HOLY, its something that god gave is, and not in some vague way, he literally designed our bodies and minds for sex with just one other person our whole life. I'm not going to feel guilty for wanting to marry someone with whom I can have a marriage a close as possible to what god originally intended. If I was to slip up and have sex before marriage I wouldn't keep to this, but because I AM a virgin, I want a virgin. Contrary to what the world tells us this does not make me bigoted, a womanizer, or any other insulting word. If you can look past that and marry someone who isn't, good for you, I don't think there is anything WRONG with marrying someone who isn't a virgin, but for me personally, I want a wife who I know has no past experiences and nothing to compare it to, and knows I don't either.

anewman1993 said:

Ive always held that sex should only be between a man and a woman who are married. This is pretty bibical, this means that my body is only meant for one woman on this planet to ever be sexual with, and vice versa. If I was to go have sex with a woman right now, I would be wronging my future wife because sex was only meant for her. I committed adultery against her, because sex is ONLY to be with her. Same the other way around if it was her having sex with someone. Purity is important, I'm not afraid to say I want to marry a virgin, I'll even go as far to say short of god opening the heavens and saying "marry her" I wouldn't. Its not that I think any less of them, or that I can't be there friend (most of my friends arn't virgins), but it means I don't want to share the rest of my life with them.

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When David sinned with Bathsheba, his repentance is pretty interesting:

Psalm 51 said:

Have mercy upon me, O God,
According to Your lovingkindness;
According to the multitude of Your tender mercies,
Blot out my transgressions.
Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
And cleanse me from my sin.
For I acknowledge my transgressions,
And my sin is always before me.
Against You, You only, have I sinned,
And done this evil in Your sight—
That You may be found just when You speak,
And blameless when You judge.
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts,
And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.
Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Make me hear joy and gladness,
That the bones You have broken may rejoice.
Hide Your face from my sins,
And blot out all my iniquities.
Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,
And uphold me by Your generous Spirit.
Then I will teach transgressors Your ways,
And sinners shall be converted to You.
Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,
The God of my salvation,
And my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness.
O Lord, open my lips,
And my mouth shall show forth Your praise.
For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.
Do good in Your good pleasure to Zion;
Build the walls of Jerusalem.
Then You shall be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness,
With burnt offering and whole burnt offering;
Then they shall offer bulls on Your altar.

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Bathsheba is not mentioned once in this repentance. I don't remain a virgin to honor my future wife. I remain a virgin to honor God, because it's what He has commanded of me. If my wife is not a virgin and never tells me that fact, I will not know the difference. The only reason I think a sexual past is relevant is if it changes the perspective one has on the world at large (which would happen as the result of abuse of some kind, even if it's a lifestyle of self-abusing promiscuity).

We arn't talking about a handshake here, sex is HOLY, its something that god gave is, and not in some vague way, he literally designed our bodies and minds for sex with just one other person our whole life. I'm not going to feel guilty for wanting to marry someone with whom I can have a marriage a close as possible to what god originally intended. If I was to slip up and have sex before marriage I wouldn't keep to this, but because I AM a virgin, I want a virgin. Contrary to what the world tells us this does not make me bigoted, a womanizer, or any other insulting word. If you can look past that and marry someone who isn't, good for you, I don't think there is anything WRONG with marrying someone who isn't a virgin, but for me personally, I want a wife who I know has no past experiences and nothing to compare it to, and knows I don't either.

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No one says you should feel guilty for wanting to marry a virgin, and for wanting to save your virginity for you. That is good. In the most non-sarcastic of ways, I say, good for you. However, a person should not be judged solely on their sexual past. We all screw up in some way or another, so none of us get to throw stones. My future wife may not be a virgin, but God knows I've seen enough inappropriate contentography in my lifetime to fill the Library of Congress. Unfortunately, I can't take that back, but all I can do is work to purge my mind of inappropriate contentography's influence, and pray my future wife is merciful.

Dark Walker said:

When David sinned with Bathsheba, his repentance is pretty interesting:



Bathsheba is not mentioned once in this repentance. I don't remain a virgin to honor my future wife. I remain a virgin to honor God, because it's what He has commanded of me. If my wife is not a virgin and never tells me that fact, I will not know the difference.

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I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say I would be able to tell a difference in attitude, nervousness, and just general mood, if the woman was a virgin compared to if she had been around the block more than a few times.

Dark Walker said:

but God knows I've seen enough inappropriate contentography in my lifetime to fill the Library of Congress. Unfortunately, I can't take that back, but all I can do is work to purge my mind of inappropriate contentography's influence, and pray my future wife is merciful.

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I'm in the same boat, which is one of the reasons I think I want someone who is a virgin so badly. I know inappropriate content has messed with my head quite a bit, and if simply watching it has changed what I expected, how much more would actually DOING it change my views, expectations, and such? I'm not saying I want someone perfect, they don't exist, but I want someone who is sexually pure. Maybe I have that attitude because Ive never had a girlfriend, and to be honest, I'm not sure remotely how I would handle it dating because the last thing I would want to do is the moment she confides in me she isn't a virgin I dump her, but I wouldn't want to string her along either. at the same time it would be really weird on the first few dates to be like "soooo, you a virgin?"


I would also like to say, I'm hardly "judging someone soley based on their sexual past". Like I said, Most of my friends arn't virgins, if anything that alone has borderline put me in a depression when it comes to trying to find a good girlfriend. I don't think less of people, I just feel.....sad, when I hear it, That and I want to beat some sense into my best friend, but mostly sad.

anewman1993 said:

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say I would be able to tell a difference in attitude, nervousness, and just general mood, if the woman was a virgin compared to if she had been around the block more than a few times.

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You bring up a reasonable point: you might be able to tell, but it would be only a suspicion. Of course, at that point, it would be safe to say that if she were not a virgin before, she definitely wouldn't be at the point you make that observation.

I'm in the same boat, which is one of the reasons I think I want someone who is a virgin so badly. I know inappropriate content has messed with my head quite a bit, and if simply watching it has changed what I expected, how much more would actually DOING it change my views, expectations, and such? I'm not saying I want someone perfect, they don't exist, but I want someone who is sexually pure. Maybe I have that attitude because Ive never had a girlfriend, and to be honest, I'm not sure remotely how I would handle it dating because the last thing I would want to do is the moment she confides in me she isn't a virgin I dump her, but I wouldn't want to string her along either. at the same time it would be really weird on the first few dates to be like "soooo, you a virgin?"

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I believe the question of sexual experience should be brought up when a serious commitment to a relationship has been made. I would not bring up anything sexual until I was at a stage in the relationship where we were exclusively dating, and even then I'd probably let her bring it up. There is a perception (at least in the U.S., and I suspect elsewhere) that men who mention sex are looking to have it, and even if she didn't think that, knowing myself, I'd be more comfortable if she brought it up. If she brings it up early in the relationship, that would be a red flag for me.

I can understand the perspective of wanting to marry a virgin, because we desire that sexual purity that inappropriate contentography has tainted. However, according to the words of Jesus when He said that to look at a woman with lust is to have committed adultery with her, we are--mentally speaking--non-virgins. To my chagrin, I have previously engaged in sexual conversation, and thereafter the person did not believe I was a virgin.

If I have committed these sins and found redemption, I want to give my wife that second chance as well, even if her sin was different than mine. I'm a big believer in second chances for folks, because I have to believe I can achieve the same redemption. Like I said, it's good to seek purity, and if your conviction is to seek out a virgin, go with God. I do not want to say you are doing anything wrong by that; I merely have a different perspective.

I would also like to say, I'm hardly "judging someone soley based on their sexual past". Like I said, Most of my friends arn't virgins, if anything that alone has borderline put me in a depression when it comes to trying to find a good girlfriend. I don't think less of people, I just feel.....sad, when I hear it, That and I want to beat some sense into my best friend, but mostly sad.

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I too am disheartened when my friends--especially those who are Christians--engage in sexual relationships. It gets under my skin, in a way, which is why I try to avoid the topic with people. Invariably it comes up (as it has here), and I am willing to discuss it, but I realize I can't change peoples' minds on the matter. Overall, they know what they're doing, and that's on them.

As for me, I do not want the details of my girlfriend's past, in more ways than just her sexual history. I'd only want to know if my girlfriend is a virgin, because it follows that if she's had sex before (especially a lot), she might have contracted some illness. All of my friends who are sexually active have gotten some kind of ailment because of sex; there are no exceptions within my "I know you in person, you're not a virgin, and I talk to you frequently" social circle.

Furthermore, just as we know with inappropriate contentography, any kind of sexual stimulation colors our view of sexuality. As much as I have repented of my inappropriate contentographic escapades, I am certain I may have fewer limits than a virginal woman might. So, if my girlfriend is not a virgin, I would almost view it as a comfort, because on our wedding night, it is less likely I would ask for something or do something that would upset her.

Of course, as a virgin, I am speaking with a lot of broad assumptions, so I feel it's best I should stop there. The bottom line: you're seeking purity, and that is admirable. Go with God. I would encourage you to recognize that any sexual sin is against God and God alone, but beyond that, we are in agreement, Brother.

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say I would be able to tell a difference in attitude, nervousness, and just general mood, if the woman was a virgin compared to if she had been around the block more than a few times.

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Based on my personal experiences, you cannot tell someone's sexual experience based on attitude, how they look, mood, etc. It's a bad assumption to make. A few weeks ago, I had a male friend ask me how many one night stands I've had, and I had to inform him that I hadn't and wipe the idea from his mind that I was an "experienced" lady when I'm not. You cannot tell from attitude, looks, conversation, etc. It doesn't make any sense to guess at someone's history unless they actually disclose it to you. When I actually find out specifics about someone's sexual history, more often than not I've been wrong about them.

Neve said:

Based on my personal experiences, you cannot tell someone's sexual experience based on attitude, how they look, mood, etc. It's a bad assumption to make. A few weeks ago, I had a male friend ask me how many one night stands I've had, and I had to inform him that I hadn't and wipe the idea from his mind that I was an "experienced" lady when I'm not. You cannot tell from attitude, looks, conversation, etc. It doesn't make any sense to guess at someone's history unless they actually disclose it to you. When I actually find out specifics about someone's sexual history, more often than not I've been wrong about them.

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Good insight.

anewman1993 said:

Ive always held that sex should only be between a man and a woman who are married. This is pretty bibical, this means that my body is only meant for one woman on this planet to ever be sexual with, and vice versa. If I was to go have sex with a woman right now, I would be wronging my future wife because sex was only meant for her. I committed adultery against her, because sex is ONLY to be with her. Same the other way around if it was her having sex with someone. Purity is important, I'm not afraid to say I want to marry a virgin, I'll even go as far to say short of god opening the heavens and saying "marry her" I wouldn't. Its not that I think any less of them, or that I can't be there friend (most of my friends arn't virgins), but it means I don't want to share the rest of my life with them.

We arn't talking about a handshake here, sex is HOLY, its something that god gave is, and not in some vague way, he literally designed our bodies and minds for sex with just one other person our whole life. I'm not going to feel guilty for wanting to marry someone with whom I can have a marriage a close as possible to what god originally intended. If I was to slip up and have sex before marriage I wouldn't keep to this, but because I AM a virgin, I want a virgin. Contrary to what the world tells us this does not make me bigoted, a womanizer, or any other insulting word. If you can look past that and marry someone who isn't, good for you, I don't think there is anything WRONG with marrying someone who isn't a virgin, but for me personally, I want a wife who I know has no past experiences and nothing to compare it to, and knows I don't either.

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I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's more of a philosophical one than an actual one. It's catchy to say "if I have sex before marriage, I've sinned against my future wife", but it is not practical or actual when you view that in the light of what we know of sin and forgiveness. It's a great catchphrase to help people realize the depth and gravity of their sexual choices before marriage, but in actuality you are not sinning against a person that you don't even know and haven't met yet. And if a person does have premarital sex, and then repents and asks forgiveness from God, it is no longer held to their account and they have no responsibility to later apologize for it to their spouse.

You're more than entitled to pray for a wife who has also saved herself for marriage, since that's what you've done, and that's the standard you hold for yourself.

anewman1993 said:

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say I would be able to tell a difference in attitude, nervousness, and just general mood, if the woman was a virgin compared to if she had been around the block more than a few times.

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Yes, that IS going out on a limb, and frankly, is extremely arrogant and presumptuous. And incorrect. But you're a young dude, so I can understand you thinking this.

Inkachu said:

it is no longer held to their account and they have no responsibility to later apologize for it to their spouse.

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If I go out and try to murder someone, lets say I put 4 bullets in the chest but they survive. I then repent of it and god forgives me, I have still wronged that person, I still should ask their forgiveness.

anewman1993 said:

If I go out and try to murder someone, lets say I put 4 bullets in the chest but they survive. I then repent of it and god forgives me, I have still wronged that person, I still should ask their forgiveness.

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Murdering someone is not the same as having sex with someone and then acting as though you've cheated on a future spouse you haven't even met yet.

anewman1993 said:

If I go out and try to murder someone, lets say I put 4 bullets in the chest but they survive. I then repent of it and god forgives me, I have still wronged that person, I still should ask their forgiveness.

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That's true for murder or attempted murder, but consider 1 Corinthians 6:18, which says: "Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body." You are sinning against yourself and God alone when you commit sexual immorality; by God's definition, you aren't even sinning against the woman you have sex with. You certainly aren't sinning against a woman you are not married to.

anewman1993 said:

If I go out and try to murder someone, lets say I put 4 bullets in the chest but they survive. I then repent of it and god forgives me, I have still wronged that person, I still should ask their forgiveness.

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Mate, is this a wind up?

I know this came from the singles forum, but after having been married for nearly 20 years, I find what comes after marriage (in terms of sex) to be much more important than what comes before it. People change a lot over the course of their lives, too--the 45-year-old you're married to may not be the same person, sexually or otherwise, as that 25-year-old you married.

Certainly our spouses should share our basic views and morality in terms of sex-. But I find the premarital sex = adultery against our future spouse to be bizarre--even the Old Testament only considers this the case when an engaged woman sleeps with another man (and possibly in cases of deception). We need to be a little more careful not to set up standards of morality that are more exacting than the ones God gives us. And honestly, I think the [loose woman]-shaming and guilt and build-up of unrealistic expectations that go along with these virginity-until-marriage cults can have a profoundly negative effect that outweighs the benefits (for example: http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/elizabeth-smart-obsession-with-purity-makes-rape-victims-fee).

This is kind of how I feel about the whole thing:

1. Physical virginity is not really important. Purity of heart, that is, faithfulness, honesty, and treating a loved one right, is.

2. Physical virginity is no guarantee of good personality, good marital sex, a good marriage, a good spouse, or anything at all (other than of not having had sex).

3. Disproportionate levels of guilt and social shame about premarital sex can have profoundly negative impacts. Consenting adults having premarital sex is very, very, very far from the worst thing someone could do.

anewman1993 said:

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say I would be able to tell a difference in attitude, nervousness, and just general mood, if the woman was a virgin compared to if she had been around the block more than a few times.

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Well...maybe. A person with negative sexual experience is probably going to be way more nervous than a virgin who can't wait to not be one any more. Just to pull an example out of a hat.

I came across this article today and found it interesting in light of this discussion

Evangelical men who pledge abstinence ¿confused after getting married¿ | Mail Online