They're Gay, They're Christian And They're Celibate!

I thought 12 step programs focused on actions?

they even make a big deal about how they are "still" alcholoics because the desire never goes away, they just are in "recovery"
I have heard arguments between AA people and people who describe themselves as "ex alcoholic"

so no, the assumption of the 12 step program is not that you are an addict
but rather that you might need some help controling your behavior and the 12 step program is set up to do that

and is Courage really the ONLY ministry to homosexuals?

Needing_Grace said:

"Sit down and SHUT UP about it already!" doesn't help.

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I'm not telling you to shut up. I'm saying if you need an outlet for confessing your sins that's what the priest and the sacrament of reconciliation are for. Outside of that, because people are inclined to be sinners, most people tend to mistreat anyone who confesses their sins to them whether it be if they found out your inclination to homosexuality or my inclinations to heterosexual sins. The one that you think is your best friend can betray you because people are inclined to sin if they don't have God's grace. That's why I choose to only confess my sins to a priest instead of telling everyone I meet the details of what my sinful weaknesses are. A lot of times I see that homosexuals play the "us and them" game with heterosexuals despite our best efforts to assure them that we are not the enemy. The Christian way of seeing this as us all having a struggle with sin is the non-divisive way. It is not "us and them". It is "We are in this struggle together. But let's admit that we all have a problem of sin that needs fixing with God's grace." Labeling people according to their sin is the most divisive thing we can do. It's like trying to chain them to it.

Gwendolyn said:

I didn't know that.

I think it stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of human sexuality. You cannot turn attraction "off", whether you are gay or straight, male or female, celibate or not. Attraction is subconscious. It happens, and you decide how to react.

What you CONTROL is your actions. I don't go to a 12-step program because I want to have sex with men and need help not being attracted to men anymore. I DO make a decision every day not to have sex. Although, there are 12-step programs for sex addicts, but the average person is not a sex addict - they just have natural urges that occur to everyone.

Programs that try to treat the ATTRACTION rather than the ACTION are completely missing the point.

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Very well said.

Sexual thoughts are neutral unless dwelled upon (becoming lust) or acted upon. Attraction is involuntary, something someone has no control over....

LivingWordUnity said:

Labeling people according to their sin is the most divisive thing we can do. It's like trying to chain them to it.

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Have you purged terms like adulterer, masturbator, terrorist, heretic, blasphemer, hedonist, fornicator, harlot, prostitute, etc from your vocabulary?

Rhamiel said:

I thought 12 step programs focused on actions?

they even make a big deal about how they are "still" alcholoics because the desire never goes away, they just are in "recovery"
I have heard arguments between AA people and people who describe themselves as "ex alcoholic"

so no, the assumption of the 12 step program is not that you are an addict
but rather that you might need some help controling your behavior and the 12 step program is set up to do that

and is Courage really the ONLY ministry to homosexuals?

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You are correct about 12 step programs. For example, a person in Sex Addicts Anonymous never really gets over being a sex addict, but can come to live a life of celibacy.

MikeK said:

Have you purged terms like adulterer, masturbator, terrorist, heretic, blasphemer, hedonist, fornicator, harlot, prostitute, etc from your vocabulary?

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When they choose to stop doing it and repent of it, yes.

LivingWordUnity said:

When they choose to stop doing it and repent of it, yes.

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...but not if they don't? Why are you labeling people by their sin, I thought you said that was the worst thing we could do? Are you trying to chain people to their sins?

MikeK said:

I think we can all agree that this is a problem that can only be fixed by long-winded semi-coherent rants spanning several paragraphs.

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That's why I've decided that the majority of my future posts here will serve the purpose of alleviating the stress of anonymous internet arguments.

gurneyhalleck1 said:

Have you noticed that most liberal folks who buy into the "gay" agenda and unwittingly help further the legitimacy of the intrinsically gay idea have no reply? They know they're not supporting what their Church teaches, so they resort to smarty pants one-liners and "you're hysterical" arguments. Trust me, LWU, when they resort to these comments, you know who's right and who's on the wrong side of the argument. Supporting this agenda is dangerous to not only other people whom one can poison the mind of, but it also puts the person themselves in spiritual jeopardy, the arrogance of it especially!

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Quite the opposite. Since I didn't feel that anything I said would change the minds of anyone involved, I chose to introduce some levity into the thread to purge some of the tension so we wouldn't lose our friendship.