Why Christianity?

ChesterKhan · Aug 21, 2014

Lenny3 said:
I grew up in an evangelical household and was very religious as a child. One of the main reasons I left the faith is the realization that there are other religions and even at a young age I knew that they couldn't all be right.

So my question is: Why are you a Christian and not a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc? How do you know you are following the correct religion?

Good question. That is a good question. As I understand it, it basically comes down to a question of testability.

If I may quote a forum post from a different forum:

I believe Jesus to be the Lord and Saviour of the world, primarily because of these two questions:

1) What thing provides me, and us (the human race) any reason to live?

2) What of these things provides proof it actually happened?

The first question knocks out: atheism, the UFO religions, the Latter-Day Saints, Hinduism, Buddhism, and pretty much any other religion where there is no permanent consequence to what you do in this life.

* In atheism, death is all that awaits you.
* In Hinduism and Buddhism, reincarnation until you reach moksha/nirvana is all that awaits you.
* In the Mormon church, everyone will get deified (their ultimate goal) eventually.
* The UFO religions (including Scientology) do not address our final end.
* In Taoism, Confucianism, ancestor worship, and many forms of paganism, only the afterlife awaits you (I could be wrong).
* And some "Christian" denominations which deny Hell (or, in the case of Christian Science, evil) also take away our ability to choose good. These must also be eliminated.

All of the above religions do not answer the ultimate question, which really is the only reason to choose a religion: what benefit would I, or the world, get from it? Death cancels out all benefits, and so religions where nothing changes after death have nothing to offer.

So, what remains? You have:

Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Zoroastrianism, some paganism perhaps. I think that's it.

So, question 2) kicks in: what evidence do these religions provide for their claims being true?

Islam and Zoroastrianism (and the LDS and Scientology for that matter) provide prophets, who have visions. How are we going to test a man's private revelation?

Paganism provides myths - which contain some truths, but how are we going to test whether these things happened or not? There are no dates. There are no witnesses.

Judaism claims to have received its law at Mount Sinai, from God, who gave it to Moses, who gave it to the People Israel. In effect, Moses is a prophet, like Mohammed, Joseph Smith, Zoroaster, or L. Ron Hubbard. Who will argue with a private revelation?

Christianity claims its founder was executed brutally, buried, and rose from the dead. And He appeared to eleven men, 120 others, 2 men on their way to Emmaus, several women, and (if St. Paul is correct) 500 others, some who were still alive when he wrote of it. This claim pervades all Christian writings of the time - every book of the New Testament makes this claim.

Who stands in to debate the Resurrection?

Only people who came long after the fact. Moslems, modern deists, atheists. I've only heard one Jew ask the foolish question: if Jesus rose from the dead, so what? What does that matter?

It matters very much. Because it means God has blessed Him. A Jew. And if He said so many of the things St. Paul taught, or the things the Gospels wrote, God must really have been backing Him, for no Jew would say a man could be God otherwise.

In short, what fits the mold of history: Christ not rising, or Christ rising?

Christ rising, I think.

2PhiloVoid · Aug 22, 2014

Lenny3 said:
I grew up in an evangelical household and was very religious as a child. One of the main reasons I left the faith is the realization that there are other religions and even at a young age I knew that they couldn't all be right.

So my question is: Why are you a Christian and not a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc? How do you know you are following the correct religion?

(Please don't site the Bible for your reasons. I don't mind if you reference aspects of the Bible, but please don't post verses. I know the Bible very well and am not interested in circular reasoning).

Well, Lenny,

I grew up in a somewhat liberal, religiously 'illiterate' household (meaning that despite the fact that my parents took a to church a few dozen times, I really didn't know squat, and I had way more interest in dinosaurs, outerspace, and superheroes than anything else....).

When I turned 17, then I got a hankering for 'religion,' so I began to do a little bit of studying and decided that the big C was for me; it made the most sense and seemed the most plausible. Of course, I didn't know then what I know now, but even today C is still my main thing.

2PhiloVoid · Aug 22, 2014

TheyCallMeDavid said:
For me, it wasn't a desire for religiousity....but if Jesus Christ was a very real Person then I needed to know based on good compelling evidence since the ramifications to him being real are enormous for me. That's what led me on a very deep critique of the Christian Faith from an Apologetics point of view. I wasnt going to believe in something that had no merit to it and I wasn't satisfied believing in the Bible just because it had nice crinkly pages with gold color on the outer edges. Even now that im a Christian, I still get my faith solidified by knowing and discovering even more logical scientific evidence for what I believe in. A persons Faith should and must have reasons for it..otherwise, its a superficial blind faith which No One should be content with.

TheyCallMeDavid,

Dave, I appreciate your viewpoint, but it probably would be good to be careful 'reading into' other people's meanings and intentions (such as mine), particularly when the person you are addressing is actually speaking to persons other than yourself.

For instance, I could come back to you and say something like, "Christians who rely too much on the rational, empirical, logical aspects of thinking in connection to something like Christian faith are cognitive time-bombs that could be eventually set off...onto an atheistic path."

But, I won't say that, because I don't truly know that about you (even though I do know others for whom what I alluded to above is actually the case.)

Anyway, it might be helpful to try to be more circumspect in how you 'answer' people.

Peace

TheyCallMeDavid · Aug 23, 2014

2PhiloVoid said:
TheyCallMeDavid,

Dave, I appreciate your viewpoint, but it probably would be good to be careful 'reading into' other people's meanings and intentions (such as mine), particularly when the person you are addressing is actually speaking to persons other than yourself.

For instance, I could come back to you and say something like, "Christians who rely too much on the rational, empirical, logical aspects of thinking in connection to something like Christian faith are cognitive time-bombs that could be eventually set off...onto an atheistic path."

But, I won't say that, because I don't truly know that about you (even though I do know others for whom what I alluded to above is actually the case.)

Anyway, it might be helpful to try to be more circumspect in how you 'answer' people.

Peace

Im going to have to disagree with you. When anyone makes a post in a thread thats a public forum, it opens it up to responses from anyone ; I see nothing wrong at all about making a response to anyones post and sharing my viewpoint/history on whatever is being discussed for the edification of all the Attendees . In a public forum you have to expect this occurring ; if two people wish to have a dialogue between themselves only, then the Forum offers private mail for that purpose.

As for my text, Im glad that the Christian Faith is such that a person need not check their mind at the door and that great reason and logic substantiates ones faith in Christ and the NT that reports on his person and events.

2PhiloVoid · Aug 23, 2014

TheyCallMeDavid said:
Im going to have to disagree with you. When anyone makes a post in a thread thats a public forum, it opens it up to responses from anyone ; I see nothing wrong at all about making a response to anyones post and sharing my viewpoint/history on whatever is being discussed for the edification of all the Attendees . In a public forum you have to expect this occurring ; if two people wish to have a dialogue between themselves only, then the Forum offers private mail for that purpose.

As for my text, Im glad that the Christian Faith is such that a person need not check their mind at the door and that great reason and logic substantiates ones faith in Christ and the NT that reports on his person and events.

TheyCallMeDavid,

Dave, I'm glad that you don't "check your mind in at the door, " and I wasn't implying that you should. What I was attempting to get at is that many Christians have adopted a solely "Evidentialist" approach to faith, which is not solely what faith is 'made of.'

These evidentialist Christians then go around 'bonking' other Christians over the head who don't hold to the same epistemological framework; they also sometimes get a bit snide, which really isn't an appropriate attitude for Christians to take when 'defending' the Gospel.

I agree with you that this is an 'open forum,' but despite that fact, that doesn't mean it's 'open season' for Christians to hunt down and 'deal with' those who disagree on some points of faith, or even heretics or apostates.

Peace

TheyCallMeDavid · Aug 23, 2014

2PhiloVoid said:
TheyCallMeDavid,

Dave, I'm glad that you don't "check your mind in at the door, " and I wasn't implying that you should. What I was attempting to get at is that many Christians have adopted a solely "Evidentialist" approach to faith, which is not solely what faith is 'made of.'

These evidentialist Christians then go around 'bonking' other Christians over the head who don't hold to the same epistemological framework; they also sometimes get a bit snide, which really isn't an appropriate attitude for Christians to take when 'defending' the Gospel.

I agree with you that this is an 'open forum,' but despite that fact, that doesn't mean it's 'open season' for Christians to hunt down and 'deal with' those who disagree on some points of faith, or even heretics or apostates.

Peace

In order --------

1. In my previous posts to this thread, Im pretty sure I indicated that the evidence SOLIDIFIES my existing faith which is based on trusting Jesus' sacrificial atonement for me was completely sufficient to save me and his resurrection proving so.

1.a. My personal experience is that Christians don't have enough or any apologetics , and that they don't know the reasons for the faith they have from an objective evidential point of view . I venture to guess that perhaps less than 2% could give the 3 historical Arguments for Gods existence based on modern scientific evidence alone without opening the Bibles cover. Some of my closest Christian Friends don't even read the Bible let alone being able to defend their faith when asked .

2. Its the Gospel Message that needs to be preached for sure, however, there are often questions that come up during such times that require appealing to Christian Apologetics (evidence for Christs resurrection for instance) . Many people have come to a saving knowledge of Christ presenting the Gospel in conjunction with supportive apologetics ; the popular C.S. Lewis for example. Lifelong atheist Philosopher , Prof. Anthony Flew , in his latter years converted to Theism based on Christian Apologetics presented by Christian Scholar Dr. Gary Habermas in a friendly formal debate .

3. I personally haven't encountered one Evidential Apologist that bonked people over the head as you described ; instead, ive seen such Apologists come alongside other Believers to lovingly educate them to help them see faith can be based on good reason and factual evidence. Ive used Christian Apologetics to disciple other Believers , especially those who are fairly new to the Faith.

4. An open forum lends itself to varying discussion and its all good providing its done with good intentions and respectfully.

seashale76 · Aug 23, 2014

In the top right corner of this post- next to my name- I have a blog post that is essentially my story for 'why Christianity' for me. I have read various sacred writings of world religions and visited services for various religions in the past.

2PhiloVoid · Aug 23, 2014

TheyCallMeDavid

In order --------

1. In my previous posts to this thread, Im pretty sure I indicated that the evidence SOLIDIFIES my existing faith which is based on trusting Jesus' sacrificial atonement for me was completely sufficient to save me and his resurrection proving so.

Ok. If the evidence has thus far played a part in solidifying your faith, then that's great to hear! I'm glad that it does, and indeed some amount of evidence should do so.

1.a. My personal experience is that Christians don't have enough or any apologetics , and that they don't know the reasons for the faith they have from an objective evidential point of view . I venture to guess that perhaps less than 2% could give the 3 historical Arguments for Gods existence based on modern scientific evidence alone without opening the Bibles cover. Some of my closest Christian Friends don't even read the Bible let alone being able to defend their faith when asked .

I agree with you; many Christians don't know enough Christian apologetics to give a firm shape to their own beliefs, nor do many even read God's Word. I also think though that not all Christians can be, or will be able to become, the "Berean" sort of Christian. Nor do I think that God intended faith to rely on Modern Apologetics. No, when people have problems believing, it isn't because the Bible doesn't provide sufficient evidence on its own, rather there are other influences at work.

2. Its the Gospel Message that needs to be preached for sure, however, there are often questions that come up during such times that require appealing to Christian Apologetics (evidence for Christs resurrection for instance) . Many people have come to a saving knowledge of Christ presenting the Gospel in conjunction with supportive apologetics ; the popular C.S. Lewis for example. Lifelong atheist Philosopher , Prof. Anthony Flew , in his latter years converted to Theism based on Christian Apologetics presented by Christian Scholar Dr. Gary Habermas in a friendly formal debate .

Not all Christians need additional apologetics to become Christians. I know I didn't. Although I would concede to your points by saying that apologetics might aid them in retaining their faith, at least to some extent.

3. I personally haven't encountered one Evidential Apologist that bonked people over the head as you described ; instead, ive seen such Apologists come alongside other Believers to lovingly educate them to help them see faith can be based on good reason and factual evidence. Ive used Christian Apologetics to disciple other Believers , especially those who are fairly new to the Faith.

Well, I have experienced 'bonking,' and it usually comes in the form of arguments implying that if I believe in evolution, then couldn't possibly have any authentic faith because I somehow 'pick and choose' what I want from the bible and defer to "take God at His Word," which in my view is a sack of baloney.

4. An open forum lends itself to varying discussion and its all good providing its done with good intentions and respectfully.

Yes, that's true. Unfortunately, there are individuals here (and on other forums--any forum really) that seem to think that a forum is an opportunity to shoot down other people's beliefs. In fact, what I find is that more often than not, people on forums don't want an exploratory discussion where they actually engage a range of thought structures, rather they come to simply 'win,' especially because anything less than winning is felt to be a humiliation to their intellectual acumen.

Anyway, I'm glad to see that you're not that way. But just make sure not to infer that those of us who are doing our best to be Christian via other modes of epistemology are somehow also expressing an inauthentic faith.

Peace

HisW0rd · Aug 23, 2014

All religion was made by man. Studying religion from the beginning during prehistoric times. All of them fashioned by man to distract us. I figure Christianity is the perfect religion because when they have a US genocide people will call it biblical prophecy. Few will fight but most will submit to the prophecy making it easy for depopulation.

ChesterKhan · Aug 23, 2014

HisW0rd said:
All religion was made by man. Studying religion from the beginning during prehistoric times. All of them fashioned by man to distract us. I figure Christianity is the perfect religion because when they have a US genocide people will call it biblical prophecy. Few will fight but most will submit to the prophecy making it easy for depopulation.

What is this
I don't even

ViaCrucis · Aug 23, 2014

HisW0rd said:
All religion was made by man. Studying religion from the beginning during prehistoric times. All of them fashioned by man to distract us. I figure Christianity is the perfect religion because when they have a US genocide people will call it biblical prophecy. Few will fight but most will submit to the prophecy making it easy for depopulation.

I don't know what this means.

-CryptoLutheran

TheyCallMeDavid · Aug 24, 2014

2PhiloVoid said:
Ok. If the evidence has thus far played a part in solidifying your faith, then that's great to hear! I'm glad that it does, and indeed some amount of evidence should do so.

I agree with you; many Christians don't know enough Christian apologetics to give a firm shape to their own beliefs, nor do many even read God's Word. I also think though that not all Christians can be, or will be able to become, the "Berean" sort of Christian. Nor do I think that God intended faith to rely on Modern Apologetics. No, when people have problems believing, it isn't because the Bible doesn't provide sufficient evidence on its own, rather there are other influences at work.

Not all Christians need additional apologetics to become Christians. I know I didn't. Although I would concede to your points by saying that apologetics might aid them in retaining their faith, at least to some extent.

Well, I have experienced 'bonking,' and it usually comes in the form of arguments implying that if I believe in evolution, then couldn't possibly have any authentic faith because I somehow 'pick and choose' what I want from the bible and defer to "take God at His Word," which in my view is a sack of baloney.

Yes, that's true. Unfortunately, there are individuals here (and on other forums--any forum really) that seem to think that a forum is an opportunity to shoot down other people's beliefs. In fact, what I find is that more often than not, people on forums don't want an exploratory discussion where they actually engage a range of thought structures, rather they come to simply 'win,' especially because anything less than winning is felt to be a humiliation to their intellectual acumen.

Anyway, I'm glad to see that you're not that way. But just make sure not to infer that those of us who are doing our best to be Christian via other modes of epistemology are somehow also expressing an inauthentic faith.

Peace

I hope I don't do what you mentioned in your final sentence, but I do think it wise to challenge People who hold to unbiblical beliefs particularly those within Christendom . If I held to an unbiblical belief, id sure want someone to tell me so and explain why so I could have opportunity to get on the right track. Someone did this with me when my Christian Walk was in its infancy and I was getting into Benny Hinn's Dog n Pony on-stage show.

2PhiloVoid · Aug 24, 2014

TheyCallMeDavid said:
I hope I don't do what you mentioned in your final sentence, but I do think it wise to challenge People who hold to unbiblical beliefs particularly those within Christendom . If I held to an unbiblical belief, id sure want someone to tell me so and explain why so I could have opportunity to get on the right track. Someone did this with me when my Christian Walk was in its infancy and I was getting into Benny Hinn's Dog n Pony on-stage show.

...yes, Benny Hinn can be quite attractive if a person is new to the faith, but his ideas are also confusing and prophetically false. I'm glad someone stepped in to nudge you over to a better track.

Harry3142 · Aug 25, 2014

Lenny3-

I choose to believe that there is an afterlife following this mortal existence. But to think that we can attain that afterlife through our own efforts is to think that we can be 'good enough' in-and-of ourselves. It's been my experience that the only people who see themselves as being 'good enough' are those whose attitude toward those around them is so arrogant as to make them at best obnoxious, and at worst a clear danger to anyone who disagrees with them on any subject.

So I accept that we have been rescued by a presence that is over-and-above us. This presence we call 'God the Father', and I accept that he sent his Son among us both to teach and to satisfy the Father's requirement for justice. Through his sacrifice of atonement we have attained an afterlife which we could never have attained through our own efforts (Romans 3:19-5:10).

As a result of our accepting this atoning sacrifice as our means of attaining an afterlife we are also given a new nature in place of our old, sinful nature. And just as the motivations of our sinful nature culminate in the commission of sinful acts, the motivations of our new nature culminate in the performance of righteous acts. In fact, it is our actions' being dictated by the motivations of the new nature which identify us as being genuine in our acceptance of Jesus Christ's sacrifice of atonement, and it is our actions' being dictated by our sinful nature which identify us as 'flying under false colors' (Galatians 5:16-26).

Christianity also teaches that our interrelationship with others around us is to concentrate on our alleviating their suffering. We are not to assume that those in distress deserve to be there, or that they are somehow more sinful than others. Instead, we are to act in a practical and compasssionate manner to alleviate their suffering, irregardless of their belief system or their lifestyle. Judgment is God's realm, not ours. Our realm is to give aid and comfort to those in need (Matthew 25:31-46).

I consider this assignment to see to it that the needs of others are met in a practical manner as being much more than merely acts of charity. Instead, it is God's way of 'nailing our shoes to the ground'. Instead of our permitting judgmentalism and elitism to corrupt us, we are to see everyone around us as just as important to God as we are. So if they are in need of food, clothing, and the other necessities of life, we are to see their need as if it were our own.

leftrightleftrightleft · Aug 26, 2014

Lenny3 said:
I grew up in an evangelical household and was very religious as a child. One of the main reasons I left the faith is the realization that there are other religions and even at a young age I knew that they couldn't all be right.

Just because they can't all be right doesn't mean that one of them isn't right. This applies in any situation. If I have the following question "2+2=?" and 4 people give the following answers:

2+2=2
2+2=4
2+2=5
2+2=10

Would you say, "Well, they can't all be right, so I'll just disregard them all."

No, because there's clearly an answer that is correct in those selections, even though all of them can't be right.

That's an example using math though and math is usually quite black-and-white. But even with religion or philosophy, if none of them are entirely correct, its still possible that some are "more" correct than others.

So my question is: Why are you a Christian and not a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc?

Islam, Hinduism, Taoism, Christianity, etc. all give a variety of explanations about humanity's purpose, direction on a large-scale level and an individual level. Just like the math example above, they can't all be right because some of them have mutually exclusive claims. Unlike the math example above, religion and philosophy is not black and white and I don't really think any one religion or philosophy captures all the truth about the vastness of the universe and the vastness of human experience.

Ultimately my personal experiences with God are best understood via the Christian context. I also really enjoy church as a tool for us to explore deeper personal issues and stuggles in a world that rarely offers other venues to do so. This past Sunday, our speaker was asking the congregation to confront such questions like how well you know the emotional well-being of your children, issues surrounding depression in our society and the necessary spiritual component to healing broken relationships and forgiving others that have wronged you. It was a heavy sermon. But where else can you go in our Western world and have that kind of communal experience that challenges you to build healthier relationships and openly and publicly discuss depression? That's just one example of why I like church and why I think it is so important and why I wish more people would go.

I feel like even non-Christians would benefit from going to church, even if they don't believe in some or all of the doctrine.

How do you know you are following the correct religion?

I don't know. The historical story of New Testament Christianity is fairly well documented and seems pretty legitimate when compared to other contemporary or near-contemporary sources. My personal experiences with God and the arc that my life has taken are the main reasons I am a Christian. I wasn't raised Christian though.

Furthermore, I think there is such a diversity in belief among Christians that, at times, I feel that I probably have more in common philosophically with certain groups in another religion.

On many issues, I might have more in common with a liberal Muslim/Hindu/atheist with a post-modernist bent than a conservative Christian with very traditional viewpoints.

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