Another Christian musician coming out

Jesse2014 said:

I know what she is going through. I really hope she doesn't accept that lifestyle for it will lead to hell.

I have no right to judge, for I struggle with lust. I thought that heterosexual inappropriate content will take away my gay desires, but it just made me feel very guilty. I know homosexuality is sin. I know it leads to death and hell, so I refuse to participate in the activity. But that may mean nothing to God, for I struggle with lust. The Bible says that the adulterous will not enter the kingdom of God. So I am terrified. It is hard for me to just stop, for it is a habit I have had for years before I recomitted my life to Christ.

Obeying God's laws is so difficult. I would write the Ten Commandments and put it on my wall and then review them. There was always a commandment I broke. People have asked me how can obeying the Ten Commandments be hard? It may be easy for a lot of Christians but not me. Idolatry is more then just making a graving image; it is sex sins (which I technically do not commit except through lusting which is just as bad) impure desires (for me gay desires), covetuosness, greediness, and lust. The Bible refers these sins as idolatry. I commit idolatry everyday. I am trying so hard not to. I have had people on here (Christian Forum) tell me that it means I am not truly saved. Maybe they are right. But I will continue to ask God to deliver me from my sin and deliver me from hell.

My point is I know what she is going through. I know what is like to want to give up and just give in. But I won't give up. When I stumble out of habit, I will try to get up again and seek his forgiveness. But I know that there is a possibilty that I will not be forgiven. Hebrews 10:25 says if we continue to sin there is no longer forgiveness. This frightens me. But regardless I will still seek his forgiveness.

I am planning on going back to church tomarrow. I haven't been to church for a while. It is at the local Assembly of God. I will not be fake. I will be honest about my struggles. I just hope that I am accepted.

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I have known gay Christians. My brother died of AIDS, we went through a lot together about this sin and God's love for him. He renounced his homosexuality but the fact is, the Lord loved Him first... while he was an active homosexual. That is how we come to God... in our sin. It is rather naive to think that someone cannot be gay and a Christian. We know there are Christian inappropriate content addicts and adulterers and liars and thieves etc etc etc.
Your sin is not what defines you, it is Jesus that defines you. His walk of holiness is your walk as you receive it everyday. If you slip and fall that won't mean you are not a Christian, it will mean you have slipped and fallen and need to rely on Christ's grace all the more... just like the rest of us. You will need to "Put ON Jesus Christ".
Keeping your eyes on your sin only highlights the sin, better to keep your eyes on Jesus.
I have never struggled with sexual sin, "thank you Lord". I have struggled with many of the other ones... is sexual sin worse then wanting to kill someone? worse than having an abortion? worse than stealing? I don't think the Lord sees it like we do. I think sexual sin is made worse by our societal focus on it.
I have been married a very long time. If for some reason my husband could not perform or passed away - that doesn't mean its alright for me to go out and find sex where ever. I am not a dog, that cannot control myself.

The problem with 'gay' christians is self identifying with the sin. Call it sin. If I lie, I don't make excuses to God and say it was a little fib. I lied, it is sin, It is a sin against God and God only. If I want to kill someone it is as if I had already murdered that person... it is a sin against God and it doesn't matter how I want to justify it. I repent. I remind myself who i am IN Christ. It is His holiness I wear not my own. So it is with homosexual feelings..... yes it is sin, you are in plenty of company. Only sinners need a Savior. Just never defend your sin, take it to the Lord and ask him to remove it or use it to help you in other ways. Your greatest weaknesses can become your greatest strengths in the hands of a Holy God. He already knows your heart, knows all your thoughts and He says "I love you". He never condones sin, never encourages sin, but never discourages sinners from coming to Him.

God bless, if you need any encouragement please PM me. andrea

Andrea411 said:

That is how we come to God... in our sin. It is rather naive to think that someone cannot be gay and a Christian. We know there are Christian inappropriate content addicts and adulterers and liars and thieves etc etc etc.
Your sin is not what defines you, it is Jesus that defines you. His walk of holiness is your walk as you receive it everyday.

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This is well put.
During the time period in which I battled the demon of lust attached to me I was already well aware of it being sin, but I wanted to be free of it. There was no way I was going to tell Christians about it just to have the black & white Christians tell me I was going to hell. I was already self condemning and didn't need religious zealots driving me further into darkness.

The moral of this post being that we need to discern the things of the spirit, including that of the human spirit.

Again, I don't condone sin. The bible says sin leads to death. It's clear. But there is a path to righteousness just as there is a path to debauchery & hell. It is the attitude and heart of the sinner which leads them down their chosen path. Why did God let me, as a Christian continue on miserably enslaved to a demon of lust for so many years before setting me free? I tried to get free from it many times but could not do it in my own strength. After finally giving up and basically saying it was up to God to do it, that's when instant freedom came and I would not be able to take credit.

RodofMoses said:

This is well put.
During the time period in which I battled the demon of lust attached to me I was already well aware of it being sin, but I wanted to be free of it. There was no way I was going to tell Christians about it just to have the black & white Christians tell me I was going to hell. I was already self condemning and didn't need religious zealots driving me further into darkness.

The moral of this post being that we need to discern the things of the spirit, including that of the human spirit.

Again, I don't condone sin. The bible says sin leads to death. It's clear. But there is a path to righteousness just as there is a path to debauchery & hell. It is the attitude and heart of the sinner which leads them down their chosen path. Why did God let me, as a Christian continue on miserably enslaved to a demon of lust for so many years before setting me free? I tried to get free from it many times but could not do it in my own strength. After finally giving up and basically saying it was up to God to do it, that's when instant freedom came and I would not be able to take credit.

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It was only when I finally gave up trying to be a good Christian that sin fell away. I would sit in the morning and just wrap myself in His righteousness like a cloak, pray in the Spirit and say this is all I have... but I'm not letting go of You Jesus.
One day I looked around and everything had changed.... there was peace in my life and peace in my home... that's been quite awhile ago. Maybe 15 years. I've been a christian for over 30. Nothing I did, only receiving His righteousness as my own. I don't know if you can teach it or even explain it except "keep your eyes on Jesus and not on your sin". Because not a one of us will enter heaven on our own merits... not one. only Jesus' holiness gets us there.

Sin may keep us from Christ but it won't keep Christ from us. On the cross He said, "it is finished". We just need to believe it.

God bless, andrea

michaelmynameIs said:

that depends..has the person declared their sinful state in order to repent of it
or to become its advocate and continue willfully in it ?

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The thing about Christians and sin is no one has to tell us its sin. We know. We may try to defend it but eventually the Lord won't allow us to ignore it. i would hope that is the case with this woman.

I find it very disturbing that Christians react the way they do to homosexual sin while adultery does far more damage to families, individuals and the church as a whole. Yet, we encourage those caught in adultery to repent and although we may not want them back in the pulpit, we never with one voice renounce all adulterers.
As a body, we have turned a blind eye to the promiscuity of our young people. The rate of unwed pregnancy is the same for believers as unbelievers. The rate of abortion is the same also. Where is the out cry?

There seems to be an out cry every time someone says the church has become lukewarm... or if someone says they are gay and Christian. I think continuing in sin will eventually break the relationship between that person and Christ. It will not be Christ that breaks it, but the sinner will turn away from God. I think homosexual sin is particularly bad bc people identify with their sin before their own selves. I don't walk into a place and announce hello, my name is andrea and I'm a heterosexual. Adulterers don't come into a place and announce their sexual proclivities, but homosexuals seem to identify at their very core with this sin. It is no doubt a very strong influence and why the church has not been able to break it or deliver people from it I do not know. I do know that the Lord loves sinners. The church has historically done a terrible job of dealing with people in this sin. Shunning, abandoning, outing and all but tar and feathering them.... that may be why we have not had any favor in breaking it.

We do not err when we love sinners. We err if we condone the sin. So love them, welcome them and ask God to deal with a sin most of us will never encounter. Graciously. andrea

RodofMoses said:

This is well put.
During the time period in which I battled the demon of lust attached to me I was already well aware of it being sin, but I wanted to be free of it. There was no way I was going to tell Christians about it just to have the black & white Christians tell me I was going to hell. I was already self condemning and didn't need religious zealots driving me further into darkness.

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I'm sure you understand that GOD is not mocked either?

Name-calling is not a sign of spiritual maturity in Christ, it is of the world.

ARBITER01 said:

I'm sure you understand that GOD is not mocked either?

Name-calling is not a sign of spiritual maturity in Christ, it is of the world.

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Nitpicking isn't especially mature either. Nothing there that would be name calling... seems it was a short descriptive way to explain how people were approaching him. Not in a derogatory sense but descriptive. I imagine we are all zealots at one time or another.
I didn't see any mocking of God either ?? Were you trying to imply something else?



zeal·ot
ˈzelət/Submit
noun
a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.
synonyms: fanatic, enthusiast, extremist, radical, young Turk, diehard, true believer, activist, militant; More

Andrea411 said:

Nitpicking isn't especially mature either. Nothing there that would be name calling... seems it was a short descriptive way to explain how people were approaching him. Not in a derogatory sense but descriptive. I imagine we are all zealots at one time or another.
I didn't see any mocking of God either ?? Were you trying to imply something else?



zeal·ot
ˈzelət/Submit
noun
a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.
synonyms: fanatic, enthusiast, extremist, radical, young Turk, diehard, true believer, activist, militant; More

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Better to read back in the thread and see why he made those statements, and who they were directed at.

GOD is certainly aware of when a Christian badmouths another Christian wrongfully. The truth is the truth, even if it is black and white.

ARBITER01 said:

I'm sure you understand that GOD is not mocked either?

Name-calling is not a sign of spiritual maturity in Christ, it is of the world.

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hi Arbiter01
I'm not sure how you concluded that anyone is mocking God or calling you names, but reading your replies to Andrea411 it's apparent that's the conclusion you came to.
Let me clear this up by informing you that your conclusions are inaccurate. My speech was general, and as Andrea411 pointed out, there was certainly no name calling involved. I was simply describing my own personal experience and am unsure how you turned it into being about you.
Peace, be blessed.

Jesse2014 said:

I know what she is going through. I really hope she doesn't accept that lifestyle for it will lead to hell.

I have no right to judge, for I struggle with lust. I thought that heterosexual inappropriate content will take away my gay desires, but it just made me feel very guilty. I know homosexuality is sin. I know it leads to death and hell, so I refuse to participate in the activity. But that may mean nothing to God, for I struggle with lust. The Bible says that the adulterous will not enter the kingdom of God. So I am terrified. It is hard for me to just stop, for it is a habit I have had for years before I recomitted my life to Christ.

Obeying God's laws is so difficult. I would write the Ten Commandments and put it on my wall and then review them. There was always a commandment I broke. People have asked me how can obeying the Ten Commandments be hard? It may be easy for a lot of Christians but not me. Idolatry is more then just making a graving image; it is sex sins (which I technically do not commit except through lusting which is just as bad) impure desires (for me gay desires), covetuosness, greediness, and lust. The Bible refers these sins as idolatry. I commit idolatry everyday. I am trying so hard not to. I have had people on here (Christian Forum) tell me that it means I am not truly saved. Maybe they are right. But I will continue to ask God to deliver me from my sin and deliver me from hell.

My point is I know what she is going through. I know what is like to want to give up and just give in. But I won't give up. When I stumble out of habit, I will try to get up again and seek his forgiveness. But I know that there is a possibilty that I will not be forgiven. Hebrews 10:25 says if we continue to sin there is no longer forgiveness. This frightens me. But regardless I will still seek his forgiveness.

I am planning on going back to church tomarrow. I haven't been to church for a while. It is at the local Assembly of God. I will not be fake. I will be honest about my struggles. I just hope that I am accepted.

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What do Christians have against Homosexuality? Ti...: http://youtu.be/IZFCB9sduxQ

Andrea411 said:

It was only when I finally gave up trying to be a good Christian that sin fell away. I would sit in the morning and just wrap myself in His righteousness like a cloak, pray in the Spirit and say this is all I have... but I'm not letting go of You Jesus.
One day I looked around and everything had changed.... there was peace in my life and peace in my home... that's been quite awhile ago. Maybe 15 years. I've been a christian for over 30. Nothing I did, only receiving His righteousness as my own. I don't know if you can teach it or even explain it except "keep your eyes on Jesus and not on your sin". Because not a one of us will enter heaven on our own merits... not one. only Jesus' holiness gets us there.

Sin may keep us from Christ but it won't keep Christ from us. On the cross He said, "it is finished". We just need to believe it.

God bless, andrea

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Awesome post!

RodofMoses said:

hi Arbiter01
I'm not sure how you concluded that anyone is mocking God or calling you names, but reading your replies to Andrea411 it's apparent that's the conclusion you came to.
Let me clear this up by informing you that your conclusions are inaccurate. My speech was general, and as Andrea411 pointed out, there was certainly no name calling involved. I was simply describing my own personal experience and am unsure how you turned it into being about you.
Peace, be blessed.

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Like I said, GOD is not mocked.

onlybygrace84 said:

let me be perfectly clear in my point

A practicing homosexual can no more be born again than someone living a different style of immorality (Greed, Lust, Envy, Idolatry, whatever).

The new birth, and subsequent new nature make the believer incompatible with such things and they will overcome them if they resist. "Resist the devil and he will flee" type thing. Just accepting such immorality as normal and okay though is an affront to God and His Holy Spirit.

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Yet we all come where we are at.... we are all sinners when we come to Christ. I don't understand this statement, I have heard it so many times. We are not cleansed first. We are cleansed later... there is a process to learning to walk in righteousness.
ugh... homosexuality is sin... so is lying. So is back biting. So is anger toward your brother etc etc. Sexual sin hurts the individual more than other sins but it doesn't hurt God more... He is not surprised by these people. He suffered for them and us. God loves them.

No I do not think its okay to promote homosexuality as a Christian. I think this woman and many others are mistaken about what the scriptures say. I wish they were not but they are... but we all have sin, we are all mistaken. God is looking at her heart and it never ceases to amaze me how ugly some people (not you) are about this issue. It totally distracts from the gospel.

I won't buy her music, I'm sorry but she made this her face. Gay and Christian, identifying with her sin. I feel the same way about many many musicians with their canned worship music but I would have her as a friend, welcome her into my church (if I had one) although I would not allow the promotion of homosexuality, either publicly or privately from a member of the church.

God bless, andrea

PS: I was not saying 'you' were being ugly, I have been reading around the internet....

Andrea411 said:

Yet we all come where we are at.... we are all sinners when we come to Christ. I don't understand this statement, I have heard it so many times. We are not cleansed first. We are cleansed later... there is a process to learning to walk in righteousness.

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I was cleansed from everything when I was born again, but the flesh has other ideas and habits, which came back to fight against my new birth. Sanctification, in my experience, is a daily fight towards holiness.

ARBITER01 said:

I was cleansed from everything when I was born again, but the flesh has other ideas and habits, which came back to fight against my new birth. Sanctification, in my experience, is a daily fight towards holiness.

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I don't see it as a daily fight ...(we need to give up daily, like someone jumping into a river who doesn't know if they can swim, but trusts the Lord to carry them) submission, faith believing and the knowing that there is nothing I do that improves on the 'work of the cross'. When we are walking toward Jesus we are walking towards His holiness. It is only His holiness that gets us through.

This woman has chosen her own path, yet she still has her heart toward Christ. He who began a good fight for her is able to keep her. If she keeps her eyes on Him. The problem with sin, and especially identifying oneself with a particular sin is the tendency to take their eyes off of Christ and eventually walk away.

Christ is able to keep her only as long as her faith is in Him... and then He is faithful to the faithless as long as they do not turn away. I don't see where this woman has done that but I do see where she will. Sin, willful sin, hardens the heart...
I will pray for her and all those who choose their own way over Christ. My point is that homosexuality is no worse than any sin that we prefer over Christ. It only makes for better headlines and makes Christians come out in force with nasty remarks and hypocritical statements that make Christ look as if He is not in control of His church (to the world). It is such a self-defeating issue. Instead of treating homosexuals like lepers, welcome them to your church. Just like we came, as sinners in need of a Savior.
There are plenty of people in a position to rebuke, and teach repentance the world does not need organized religion to make a public display of its hypocrisy. There are plenty of sinners in our midst. We were not called to pronounce judgment on them but to love them into the kingdom, pray them back into the kingdom if they fall.

Andrea411 said:

There are plenty of sinners in our midst. We were not called to pronounce judgment on them but to love them into the kingdom, pray them back into the kingdom if they fall.

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That's not what I see written about how to deal with such folks,..

2Ti 3:1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come;

2Ti 3:2 for men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,

2Ti 3:3 without natural affection, implacable, slanderers, intemperate, fierce, no lovers of good,

2Ti 3:4 traitors, reckless, puffed up, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God;

2Ti 3:5 holding a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from these also turn away.

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The same Holy Spirit that taught through Jesus also taught through Paul.

I think it is honorable that you think that way, but we are not commanded to do such a thing, in fact we are told to do just the opposite. We are to be separate from the world.

Eight pages later I'm surprised no one's mentioned Peter's encounter with Cornelius.

Andry said:

Eight pages later I'm surprised no one's mentioned Peter's encounter with Cornelius.

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I know I am going to regret asking, but what does that have to do with this discussion?

ARBITER01 said:

That's not what I see written about how to deal with such folks,..
Originally Posted by Andrea411 View Post
There are plenty of sinners in our midst. We were not called to pronounce judgment on them but to love them into the kingdom, pray them back into the kingdom if they fall.
That's not what I see written about how to deal with such folks,..

2Ti 3:1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come;

2Ti 3:2 for men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,

2Ti 3:3 without natural affection, implacable, slanderers, intemperate, fierce, no lovers of good,

2Ti 3:4 traitors, reckless, puffed up, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God;

2Ti 3:5 holding a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from these also turn away.
The same Holy Spirit that taught through Jesus also taught through Paul.


The same Holy Spirit that taught through Jesus also taught through Paul.

I think it is honorable that you think that way, but we are not commanded to do such a thing, in fact we are told to do just the opposite. We are to be separate from the world.

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well that fairly well sums up everyone at church last Sunday.... what do you suggest we do with all the unholy people? Throw them out of the church?

I read Paul also
1Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. 2Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.…

It appears that the age old what do we do with sin and sinners question....? we pray, we plead with God for their very souls, but we do not pass judgement on them. That is God's job. No. I didn't say we don't judge, we don't get to pass judgment. Address the sin. I would leave it to this woman's church to teach the scriptures in regard to all sin, not just homosexuality.

Andrea411 said:

well that fairly well sums up everyone at church last Sunday.... what do you suggest we do with all the unholy people? Throw them out of the church?

I read Paul also
1Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. 2Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.…

It appears that the age old what do we do with sin and sinners question....? we pray, we plead with God for their very souls, but we do not pass judgement on them. That is God's job. No. I didn't say we don't judge, we don't get to pass judgment. Address the sin. I would leave it to this woman's church to teach the scriptures in regard to all sin, not just homosexuality.

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If they call themselves 'brothers' and refuse to turn from a sinful lifestyle, then yes. Breaking fellowship is exactly what we should do.

Andrea411 said:

well that fairly well sums up everyone at church last Sunday.... what do you suggest we do with all the unholy people? Throw them out of the church?

I read Paul also
1Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. 2Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.…

It appears that the age old what do we do with sin and sinners question....? we pray, we plead with God for their very souls, but we do not pass judgement on them. That is God's job. No. I didn't say we don't judge, we don't get to pass judgment. Address the sin. I would leave it to this woman's church to teach the scriptures in regard to all sin, not just homosexuality.

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Adding our personal ideas and thoughts to the word of GOD only messes things up in the end.

There is a reason The Holy Spirit said what He said through Paul on this subject, we are to seek Him and understand from Him why, not try to second guess Him or refuse what He said.