Catholic Teachings.... Backed by Scripture??

Mama Kidogo said:

If you change that word dogma to doctrine, I could fully agree with you.

As a Teaching is the very definition of doctrine, I'd answer the question posed in this fashion. Most but not all. Some are backed by Tradition. That is not a bad thing unless one is a scripture only fanatic. But no one is truly scripture only in doctrine.

Let me give an example. I have friends who attend meeting at a "bible only style church.' Often I have heard them say that hell is a place where man is completely separated from God's love. Until recently I just let that odd statement go. But last week I asked my dear sister when she once again said that, two questions.
1. Is God omnipresent or not?
2. Book, chapter and verse please?
Yea. No tradition my foot.

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Dogma vs doctrine is a fuzzy topic for me, to me they're the same, so I defer to you. And, in that case, we agree.

Mama Kidogo said:

Mat I ask how often you go to mass? It's off topic but i ask only because i'm curious. Not to turn around and beat you with.

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I go almost every day, but some days work takes precedence. Any time there's no meeting to attend, I'm pretty free to go. It's a luxury for me that I am totally in debt to my employer, because I usually take an hour and 15 minutes to walk to and from, and serve the altar.

During the first three months of this year, I had to miss more times than go, because of a major project that finished up Easter morning.

Mama Kidogo said:

If you change that word dogma to doctrine, I could fully agree with you.

As a Teaching is the very definition of doctrine, I'd answer the question posed in this fashion. Most but not all. Some are backed by Tradition. That is not a bad thing unless one is a scripture only fanatic. But no one is truly scripture only in doctrine.

Let me give an example. I have friends who attend meeting at a "bible only style church.' Often I have heard them say that hell is a place where man is completely separated from God's love. Until recently I just let that odd statement go. But last week I asked my dear sister when she once again said that, two questions.
1. Is God omnipresent or not?
2. Book, chapter and verse please?
Yea. No tradition my foot.

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You could also ask where monogamous marriage and sanctity of life shows itself, because both sides of both traditions are present in Scripture.

Mama Kidogo said:

Mat I ask how often you go to mass? It's off topic but i ask only because i'm curious. Not to turn around and beat you with.

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When I first converted I went pretty much every day. Being new to Christianity it was a great introduction into the Catholic faith. and it felt like a little holy wind pushed me out the door each day. Most days I'd be pretty excited about it, wondering what God had in store for me that day. Those were truly times of grace.

Now that I'm fully employed, my attendance has dropped off drastically. I only go to daily mass a 2-4 days a month and that's because I'm serving at the altar. Today was kind of different in that it's the first time I've been to my home parish in a very long time and wasn't serving. Usually on Sundays my wife and I go to a nearby parish which is quieter and more suits her worship style.

Root of Jesse said:

Dogma vs doctrine is a fuzzy topic for me, to me they're the same, so I defer to you. And, in that case, we agree.

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Dogma, doctrine, holy T/tradition...etc.....Too much for my feeble little brain to figure out........

http://www.christianforums.com/t7409389/
Dogma And Doctrine Remix

OrthodoxyUSA said:

The difference

Dogma always has a direct impact on the possibility of our salvation. Dogma has Christ God as it's source. (The teachings of..., the works of..., the precedence of...) As taught directly by the Apostles... and which none of them, nor the Churches that they taught directly, disagreed.

Simple Examples:

The Trinity
The Death, burial and resurrection on the third day.
Baptism

These are known as Holy (T)radition. As a byproduct of what they are, Christians are not allowed to deny them. These are the things "set" by Christ as the proper path for his followers. We are not to be at odds with the Masters teachings.

_______________________________________________


Doctrines are always the teachings of men, who have studied the scriptures in hopes of finding answers to their questions, with the intention of having them accepted as truth. Doctrines are always subsets to DOGMA, and they are not directly related to salvation.


Simple Examples:

The ascension of Mary (that's an Orthodox one for good measure)
Timing of the tribulation (everybody has an opinion on this one)
Method of baptism (everybody has an opinion on this one)
Sola Scriptura

Someone mentioned "Celibate Clergy"... This is neither, as it is not a "teaching" but rather a monastic "discipline". All of these and "what color should the flowers be" are lower (t)raditions. Take them or leave them.

Many Doctrines that have no root in "The Church" teaching from the beginning, and were masquerading as DOGMA, have been put to the test by councils. These incorrect teachings, when they are found, are labeled "heresy", which means to "pick and choose". For the fathers of the Church, this pointed to the idea that a person had "cherry picked" a subject from scripture, thought that they understood it correctly, and was actively teaching it to others from the ALTAR. Most teachers of heresy recant and the matter is put to rest. After all, most are just simple errors.


Occasionally, we have in history clergy or teachers who stand out and will not change their position on such a subject. These are called before the same councils (most of them will not show up) and the council deliberates. After several attempts are made (usually three) the person himself is labeled a "heretic" (a teacher of heresy) and accepts his fate as excommunicate. That is to say that he can no longer gather with the Christians and take part in communion. This is done to protect others.

The local Churches will affirm that he is anathema. The word "anathema" means "to be left outside". It carries the context of the wedding guest who was without answer when the King ask him why he had no wedding garment. (Matthew 22)

It has come to be something much stronger through the years. Some misinterpret the word as "to be damned". That is what many say is the only possability for those who have been excommunicated, but that is only Doctrine not DOGMA.

Forgive me...

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Root of Jesse said:

Oh, all the Marian dogmas have a Scriptural basis. I've proven that over and over. That you choose not to see it, I understand.

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So can you show me the scriptural basis for the assumption of Mary?

Root of Jesse said:

Well, except for the fact that JW was founded by a relative contemporary (to today), and Catholicism was founded by Christ (see Matt 16:18), no, not like JW.

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Other than sharing the same first letters, Cath-0-lic and Christ have nothing in common.

Where do u see Jesus coming up with Catholicism? Book, chapter, and verse please. You will never be able to find the word "Catholic" in God's word.

The Roman Catholic church was founded by Boniface 3rd. in 606 A.D. It is completely heretical.

Root of Jesse said:

Oh, all the Marian dogmas have a Scriptural basis. I've proven that over and over. That you choose not to see it, I understand. For you, trot Mary out, sing "Silent Night", then be done with her, of course forgetting that she was there at the foot of the Cross when they crucified my Lord.

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Ok, so were others! However, we r not to worship them.

Sasquatchit said:

Ok, so were others! However, we r not to worship them.

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You've just been treated to a special kind of "proof," which is to cite some idea or verse that does NOT speak to the issue at hand and then proclaim "There you go--proof. I quoted something, didn't I?"

Sasquatchit said:

Other than sharing the same first letters, Cath-0-lic and Christ have nothing in common.

Where do u see Jesus coming up with Catholicism? Book, chapter, and verse please. You will never be able to find the word "Catholic" in God's word.

The Roman Catholic church was founded by Boniface 3rd. in 606 A.D. It is completely heretical.

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More fallacy:

Acts 9:31
From the Orthodox Study Bible: Throughout all, or universal is the translation of the word catholic. Sorry but you lose that argument, as for the RCC history. You don't have any actual proof of that, funny that history rejects your supposition about Boniface quite easily.

Sasquatchit said:

Other than sharing the same first letters, Cath-0-lic and Christ have nothing in common.

Where do u see Jesus coming up with Catholicism? Book, chapter, and verse please. You will never be able to find the word "Catholic" in God's word.

The Roman Catholic church was founded by Boniface 3rd. in 606 A.D. It is completely heretical.

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Interesting.
Would that make the Eastern Orthodox church older than the Roman Catholic church?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7381842-12/#post52251942

Originally Posted by ProScribe

I'm not sure if Catholics are actually heretics.
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Pro-Scribe - you are Orthodox - correct ?

Then , according to Orthodoxy , Catholics are indeed heretics

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Sasquatchit said:

The Roman Catholic church was founded by Boniface 3rd. in 606 A.D. It is completely heretical.

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Really? Who were Boniface I and II then?

tadoflamb said:

Really? Who were Boniface I and II then?

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I thought you knew about them already. Here are the Wikipedia articles about them - Pope Boniface I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pope Boniface II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The known facts of these two gentlemen are probably worthy of threads of their own as their papacies were certainly filled with practices which are no longer condoned by your denomination.

Root of Jesse said:

Oh, all the Marian dogmas have a Scriptural basis. I've proven that over and over. That you choose not to see it, I understand. For you, trot Mary out, sing "Silent Night", then be done with her, of course forgetting that she was there at the foot of the Cross when they crucified my Lord.

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How many Marian dogmas is enough for Roman Catholicism?

http://www.christianforums.com/t6866068-101/#post43602184
Cardinals Hoping for a 5th Marian Dogma

To Declare Mary as Mother of Humanity

Five cardinals have sent a letter inviting prelates worldwide to join them in petitioning Benedict XVI to declare a fifth Marian dogma they said would "proclaim the full Christian truth about Mary.".....

The text, released last week, includes the petition that asks the Pope to proclaim Mary as "the Spiritual Mother of All Humanity, the co-redemptrix with Jesus the redeemer, mediatrix of all graces with Jesus the one mediator, and advocate with Jesus Christ on behalf of the human race.".....

"We believe the time opportune for a solemn definition of clarification regarding the constant teaching of the Church concerning the Mother of the Redeemer and her unique cooperation in the work of Redemption, as well as her subsequent roles in the distribution of grace and intercession for the human family.".......

The statement added, "This initiative also intends to start an in-depth worldwide dialogue on Mary's role in salvation for our time. [...] Should this effort prove successful, a proclamation would constitute a historical event for the Church as only the fifth Marian dogma defined in its 2,000-year history.".....

Cardinal Aponte Martínez, one of the cardinal co-patrons said: "I believe the time is now for the papal definition of the relationship of the Mother of Jesus to the each one of us, her earthly children, in her roles as co-redemptrix, mediatrix of all graces and advocate......

"To solemnly proclaim Mary as the spiritual mother of all peoples is to fully and officially recognize her titles, and consequently to activate, to bring to new life the spiritual, intercessory functions they offer the Church for the new evangelization, and for humanity in our serious present world situation."



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LittleLambofJesus said:

How many Marian dogmas is enough for Roman Catholicism?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7533697/#post56714947
Cardinals Hoping for a 5th Marian Dogma

To Declare Mary as Mother of Humanity

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Interesting. Mary as Eve. I suppose that is no worse than the Qu'ran which declares her to be the sister of Moses.

LittleLambofJesus said:

How many Marian dogmas is enough for Roman Catholicism?

http://www.christianforums.com/t6866068-101/#post43602184
Cardinals Hoping for a 5th Marian Dogma

To Declare Mary as Mother of Humanity

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co-remdemptorix?

I thought we left that type of nonsense behind with Gnosticism

LiberalAnglicanCatholic said:

co-remdemptorix?

I thought we left that type of nonsense behind with Gnosticism

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Wiki mentions that dogma could have been started by Irenaeus

Co-Redemptrix - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Co-Redemptrix is an almost entirely Roman Catholic title of Mary, the mother of Jesus and theological concept, which refers to Mary's role in the redemption of man. It has always been controversial and has never formed part of the dogma of the Church...................

The concept of Co-redemption is not new. Even before the year 200, the Church Father Irenaeus referred to Mary as "causa salutis" [cause of our salvation] given her "fiat"[4]
It is a concept which was the subject of considerable theological debate, reaching a peak in the 15th century,[5] but attempts to have it declared a dogma were not successful. In general it was supported and promoted by medieval Franciscans and opposed by Dominicans.

The concept was especially commonly held in the late Middle Ages, when it was especially promoted by many in the Franciscan Order, and often resisted by the Dominicans. By the early 16th century the hopes of the concept becoming Catholic doctrine had receded, and have never seriously revived. In more recent times, the title has received some support from the Catholic Magisterium[2] though it is not included in the concluding chapter of the dogmatic constitution Lumen gentium of the Second Vatican Council, which chapter many theologians hold to be a comprehensive summary of Roman Catholic Mariology.


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bbbbbbb said:

Interesting. Mary as Eve. I suppose that is no worse than the Qu'ran which declares her to be the sister of Moses.

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Moses' sister was named Miriam and in the Greek Septuagint it is spelled Μαριὰμ in Greek, which is exactly how Mary is spelled in the New Testament.

bbbbbbb said:

I thought you knew about them already. Here are the Wikipedia articles about them - Pope Boniface I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pope Boniface II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The known facts of these two gentlemen are probably worthy of threads of their own as their papacies were certainly filled with practices which are no longer condoned by your denomination.

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You're going to have to take that up with your co-religious. He thinks Boniface I and II come from some other 'denomination'.

tadoflamb said:

You're going to have to take that up with your co-religious. He thinks Boniface I and II come from some other 'denomination'.

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Too coy by far.