Catholic Teachings.... Backed by Scripture??

2 Thessalonians 2:15 tells us to keep the commandments given from the Apostles either by word or by epistle


so scripture is not the sole rule of the Christian Faith

Root of Jesse said:

So you think. Where there's Truth, there's Truth. Where not, not. But that's how the devil tries to break us down, quite successfully. Pick it apart, and then trash it. The entire body of Marian dogma is logical.

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Logical, perhaps, but certainly not biblical.

LiberalAnglicanCatholic said:

no the statement mother of god brings the false assumption that Mary gave birth to the divine nature of Christ, which in trinitarian thought, was already in place.

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Of course she gave birth to the divine nature of Christ, she was carrying the Son of God in her womb from the moment she conceived!
Giving birth does not in any way, shape or form imply that Mary 'creates' the divine nature in her womb. To suggest such a thing demonstrates a very strange understanding of how each and every one of us are formed in the womb. We are all created by God at the moment of our mother's conceiving. The difference with Jesus is that He already existed prior to His mother conceiving. I don't pretend to understand how God united His divine nature to our human nature, but I do know what a mother is and does and how a woman becomes a mother. The Protestant complaint, IMHO, elevates their own mothers to a semi divine status as it implies that our mothers create us.

Mother of Christ, not mother of God does not deny christ's divine nature but it does make it clear that it was a human incarnation that god took in the person of Christ. Mary was the chose vessel for bringing that incarnation into the world.

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Actually, "mother of Christ" says nothing about His divinity. Christ simply means "annointed one" and was a term favored by those who denied Christ's divinity. Once again, mothers give birth to persons, they do not simply give birth to natures. Mary gave birth to a person who was both human and divine.
I'm curious, do you consider your mother simply as the vessel who brought you into the world? I hope there is more to your relationship than that.

Mother of God raises Mary, at least in the Protestant view point to the level of a goddess, which is contrary to Scripture. As I've said, it's far more in line with the gnostic view of a female divine, Sophia(which translates as wisdom) which was an old-declared hetrodox viewpoint.

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Gnosticism is a red herring. Both Catholic and Orthodox tradition states that Christ is human because He was born of a human. Christ's death and resurrection saves us because He took on OUR nature from His mother and defeated the hold that death once had over us.

did my mother give birth to my "human nature"?
no, she gave birth to me, and I have human nature because I am a human

mothers give birth to people, not "natures"

if a King married a commoner and they had a son, she would be "mother of the prince"
even though she is not responsible for his royal status

Mary is the Mother of God because when Jesus was born, that means God was born..... kinda weird, but it is what happened

if Protestants want to see this as equating Mary to a goddess..... well I am not responsible for the crazy beliefs of other people.

Rhamiel said:

did my mother give birth to my "human nature"?
no, she gave birth to me, and I have human nature because I am a human

mothers give birth to people, not "natures"

if a King married a commoner and they had a son, she would be "mother of the prince"
even though she is not responsible for his royal status

Mary is the Mother of God because when Jesus was born, that means God was born..... kinda weird, but it is what happened..........

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The apostate Jews of today are still trying to wrap their heads around a virgin birth of their future messiah. How come?

The Supposed Virgin Birth

The Virgin Birth is a fundamental tenet of most forms of Christianity. Yet it is very odd that none of the earlier Christian books mention it. The book of Mark, probably the first written, makes no mention of it at all. One would think that it would be worth at least one sentence, if not the amount spent on it by the book of Matthew. It is evident that Mark had never heard of the Virgin Birth. The book of John does not mention it either.

The reason that the virgin birth concept was added to Christianity was because the first Christians were very unsuccessful at converting Jews. Most Jews knew they had something better, so they would not leave Judaism for Christianity. Remember: at the beginning it was nothing more than a very small messianic movement within Judaism, and after their "messiah" died, it was rather hard to convert Jews to their movement.....................


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Tzaousios said:

Sounds like smug post-Reformation gloating to me.

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Well, I guess u can call it whatever.... Can u disprove it?

LiberalAnglicanCatholic said:

Oh brother, this is supposed to be a theological discussion...not a jump to insane arguments section.

What in theology supports that claim of yours?

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That's easy....Scripture!

Sasquatchit said:

Well, I guess u can call it whatever.... Can u disprove it?

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Disprove what, your interpretation?

Sasquatchit said:

That's easy....Scripture!

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And Scripture doesn't disprove other arguments either.

So your right back to square one.

Just like the RC's and EO's on the Marian dogma.

We're agreeing, I take it, that Catholic teachings may or may not be backed by scripture, depending upon which doctrine is being referred to.

Sasquatchit said:

Isn't Catholicism a different religion, like JW's?

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Well, except for the fact that JW was founded by a relative contemporary (to today), and Catholicism was founded by Christ (see Matt 16:18), no, not like JW.

Albion said:

We're agreeing, I take it, that Catholic teachings may or may not be backed by scripture, depending upon which doctrine is being referred to.

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Oh, all the Marian dogmas have a Scriptural basis. I've proven that over and over. That you choose not to see it, I understand. For you, trot Mary out, sing "Silent Night", then be done with her, of course forgetting that she was there at the foot of the Cross when they crucified my Lord.

Root of Jesse said:

Oh, all the Marian dogmas have a Scriptural basis. I've proven that over and over. That you choose not to see it, I understand. For you, trot Mary out, sing "Silent Night", then be done with her, of course forgetting that she was there at the foot of the Cross when they crucified my Lord.

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There is NO Scriptural evidence for the concept of Mary as it exists in RC or EO understanding. It's is belief held in those two branches, that is all.

So yes Albion, some of agree with that statement of yours.

I can't believe we are still on this thread all this time later, the original point of the OP was for myself and other Catholics to show that our teaching is backed by scripture (it is). Sadly it quickly devolved into the usual name calling that these threads normally contend with.

GoingByzantine said:

I can't believe we are still on this thread all this time later, the original point of the OP was for myself and other Catholics to show that our teaching is backed by scripture (it is). Sadly it quickly devolved into the usual name calling that these threads normally contend with.

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The problem is that you believe that it is all backed by scripture but, as Albion has pointed out, not all is, but only some.

GoingByzantine said:

I can't believe we are still on this thread all this time later, the original point of the OP was for myself and other Catholics to show that our teaching is backed by scripture (it is). Sadly it quickly devolved into the usual name calling that these threads normally contend with.

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Your leaders do not make the same claim.

82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."

Of course they tell you they get their doctrines from successors to apostles, but that is not the same as saying the teachings are from apostles. RC makes no such claim. It knows it can't.

Better to tell the truth, whether people hear it or not.

Root of Jesse said:

Oh, all the Marian dogmas have a Scriptural basis. I've proven that over and over.

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Not at all. None of them (immaculate conception, ever-virgin, assumption) have a scriptural basis. And since we're going by scripture, Mary is mother of my Lord.

Root of Jesse said:

Oh, all the Marian dogmas have a Scriptural basis. I've proven that over and over. That you choose not to see it, I understand. For you, trot Mary out, sing "Silent Night", then be done with her, of course forgetting that she was there at the foot of the Cross when they crucified my Lord.

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If you change that word dogma to doctrine, I could fully agree with you.

As a Teaching is the very definition of doctrine, I'd answer the question posed in this fashion. Most but not all. Some are backed by Tradition. That is not a bad thing unless one is a scripture only fanatic. But no one is truly scripture only in doctrine.

Let me give an example. I have friends who attend meeting at a "bible only style church.' Often I have heard them say that hell is a place where man is completely separated from God's love. Until recently I just let that odd statement go. But last week I asked my dear sister when she once again said that, two questions.
1. Is God omnipresent or not?
2. Book, chapter and verse please?
Yea. No tradition my foot.

“Arise, LORD, come to your resting place,

you and your mighty ark." (Psalm 132:8)

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As a side note, going to mass this morning the sun's rays were busting through yesterday's storm clouds giving me a glorious visual reminder of the specialness of the day. It's good to be Catholic.

For those of you scoring along at home:

Solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary

tadoflamb said:

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As a side note, going to mass this morning the sun's rays were busting through yesterday's storm clouds giving me a glorious visual reminder of the specialness of the day. It's good to be Catholic.

For those of you scoring along at home:

Solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary

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Mat I ask how often you go to mass? It's off topic but i ask only because i'm curious. Not to turn around and beat you with.