In 2014, would Christ choose Judaism or Christianity?

Christianity is a continuation of an older religion, not a new one.

ChristsSoldier115 said:

Christianity is a continuation of an older religion, not a new one.

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Let's say that it's an extension or outgrowth or that it's 'derived from'

Continuation suggests that it's the same thing only later in time.

Albion said:

My goodness, yes.

However, there are so many and such significant differences, it would be hard to know where to begin.

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Abel, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Elijah, David, Isaiah, Peter, Paul, John, Luke.

What do all of these people have in common.

They all believed in the same God. They all practised the same religion. One True God, one true religion.


Did Jesus come to establish a new religion? No, He didn't. He simply emphasised what true religion (Judaism/Christianity or whatever you wanna call it) from the beginning was all about:

"Love God and thy neighbor."

Moses certainly did not know the Son of God as his Savior, without whom Moses could not reach heaven. How's that for starters? And Moses knew only the Law, which none of us can keep adequately enough to earn salvation...which is why Christianity is about Grace being the vehicle for forgiveness instead.

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Moses CERTAINLY knew of the prophesied Messiah who would come to save the children of Israel from their sins. Jesus even said so:

If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. John 5:46

Albion said:

Let's say that it's an extension or outgrowth or that it's 'derived from'

Continuation suggests that it's the same thing only later in time.

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The problem is with the new expansion comes a new set of rules to accommodate, and people refuse to let go of the old ones. Hence why the jewish religion still exists.

Why would anyone even think that He would revert back to being under the law when He died so we could be under grace.

He would not even think about it.

For all of you out there debating whether or not Christianity and Judaism are separate religions or simply a fulfillment and continuation of each other, you're going to anger someone regardless.

It all comes down to eschatology, coincidentally.

Dispensational Premillennialists are going to argue that Christianity is not a continuation of Judaism, but rather that the fulfillment of the promises to Old Testament Israel (the modern day Jews) are yet to be fulfilled, and will be during the tribulation and millennium.

Amillennialists, myself included argue that Christianity is a continuation of OT Judaism by which the laws have been fulfilled through Christ.

As such, the religions are not one and the same, but Christianity can be viewed as the true Jewish faith, while those Jews who deny Christ live as apostates and not as "Jews". In a certain sense, the religion evolved.

On to the question at hand though, I believe when Christ comes back, it'll be at the Last Judgement, and as such, he won't be attending any earthly Churches.

But, for the sake of argument, I think that Christ would preach at both Synagogues and Churches, reforming and rebuking those more liberal and mainline branches for departing from the Word of God and all Christians in general for not living up to His name, and how He taught us to live, while at the same time bringing those who are not Christians to the fold. Not just Synagogues though, but brothels, roadhouses, clubs, bars, Mosques, adult theaters, &c.

That's my two cents.

Christianity is a continuation of Judaism so if we did not have to make a distinction between the two beliefs today, it would be the same name. Modern Judaism is a propagation of the Pharisee's sect of Judaism and Jesus didn't get along with them very well. It's hard to say Christianity because it is basically asking what religion is God?

I find the question difficult to speculate about.

I think Jesus would be most concerned with inviting anyone to come help redeem the world. Churches & individuals who have been doing that or want to be involved, would come. I do think He would still oppose judgment from others, especially from churches.

Lion King said:

Abel, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Elijah, David, Isaiah, Peter, Paul, John, Luke.

What do all of these people have in common.

They all believed in the same God.

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That doesn't make them all members of the same religion.

They all practised the same religion.

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Not by any stretch of the imagination would that be correct to say.

Do you also think that Muslims are Christians? Your logic would say so.

Darth Bagel said:

My point in the OP was that the way of life Christ modeled and exhorted his disciples to follow juxtaposed what was then the norm for the Jewish faith. 2,000 years later it may be argued that Christianity is now what Judaism was then.

This isn't about finer doctrinal and dogmatic points or whether or not Christianity is a continuation of Judaism. This is about if Christ stood on a sidewalk looking across the street at an example of Judaism in practice and an example of Christianity in practice, which one would he recognize as "getting the point" that he taught his disciples?

My inclination is to say the former.

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Personally I find it impossible to separate Jews/Judaism from christianity. They are intimately linked at the hip.

The Word of God came to Israel/Jews first, even though it was held by imperfect people. The Word of God of the O.T. was made flesh. Same Word, different container.

It is far more interesting to WATCH what the Word does than to watch what imperfect mankind does. Nevertheless God has not abandoned the Jews whatsoever.

God has on the other hand, purposefully and DIVINELY set the 'middle east' against both Jew and christian.

This attests to HIS REALITY.

Genesis 16:12
And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

What few Jews, Christians or Islamists realize is the the son of the flesh, Ishmael, is the spiritual problem of all of us.

I pray that God in Christ brings ALL of us into understanding that reality and we turn and face our real enemy, which is INTERNAL. Even in the subtle nuance of the term MIDDLE east, we do find our own enemy in OUR OWN MIDDLE. Literally in our midst.

And I believe that is the MESSAGE of the Gospel and our HOPE as Christians with a capital C. To eradicate the real enemy. Turn turn and face that child of the flesh. To have the TABLES TURNED.

Which of course only Christ in us can do and perform.

Therefore the ONUS is ON HIM, In Him.

squint said:

Personally I find it impossible to separate Jews/Judaism from christianity. They are intimately linked at the hip.

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Interesting. Like Democratic Socialism and Communism are the same thing or Vanilla and Chocolate are the same. I guess I just see the differences between things that have some similarity to each other as being more significant than other people do...and that the differences matter.

Darth Bagel said:

I was reading some comments after an article on a website that I like, and one of the individuals mentioned that he reverted to Judaism from Christianity because of the rampant judgmentalism in Christianity.

Which sparked a thought, would Jesus do the same? Has Christianity spun so far out of control with trying to monopolize morality and become so full of small cliques of people chomping at the bit to judge anybody that doesn't align with their clan that as a whole we're unrecognizable from what Christ envisioned 2,000 years ago? If he came back to Earth incognito just to cruise the landscape and observe, would he be compelled to go to a church or a synagogue*?

When Christ walked the earth prior to his crucifixion, the portrait painted in the gospels is that Judaism was full of judgmental hypocrites (Pharisees and Sadducees) and he chastised them on a regular basis. 2,000 years later, have the roles reversed? Has Christianity of the 20th and 21st centuries become the Judaism of the first century and vice versa?

Food for thought.

*Let's not nitpick over issues like the Church didn't technically exist when Christ walked the earth so he'd probably go to temple instead if he were here because he'd recognize it. I just want to be clear about that right now.

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Religion is a serpent, and Christianity the chief serpent that swallows all the other serpents. Jesus came to end this perception of God as something relative to man.

Albion said:

Interesting. Like Democratic Socialism and Communism are the same thing or Vanilla and Chocolate are the same. I guess I just see the differences between things that have some similarity to each other as being more significant than other people do...and that the differences matter.

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Jews/christians/Islamists/all people ALL have the IDENTICAL problem.

That problem is shown by Christ and resolved 'in Him.'

Whether any person sees it or not is also solely up to God in Christ.

squint said:

Jews/christians/Islamists/all people ALL have the IDENTICAL problem.

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That may be, but it doesn't make them all the same religion.

Albion said:

That may be, but it doesn't make them all the same religion.

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Doesn't really matter according to the universal reality of the sin problem.

squint said:

Doesn't really matter according to the universal reality of the sin problem.

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So what is the solution? (I know you've answered this already.)

I guess the real question is ... is their religion irrelevant to the availability of a solution?

You'd get a lot of different answers around here if you asked that question of everyone.

Kylissa said:

So what is the solution? (I know you've answered this already.)

I guess the real question is ... is their religion irrelevant to the availability of a solution?

You'd get a lot of different answers around here if you asked that question of everyone.

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Probably the first step to get OVER on Ishmael is to stop lying to ourselves about having Ishmael to contend with. We should recognize that there is a son of the flesh who is NOT going to get through the gate of Heaven no matter what he does.

In the same way we are not 'in truth' when we say we have no sin.

Ishmael is an allegory of sin. It's not about Ishmael as a person whatsoever anymore than it was a question of Esau as a person.

Both Ishmael and Esau are physical allegories of the SIN problem that we all factually have.

That problem will NOT be resolved until GOD DESTROYS THEM.

In the meantime we have our deposit of faith that keeps and maintains us, which is CHRIST IN OUR MIDST. Dividing us from that 'other' that we have.

Therein is TRUST. Therein is also destruction, waiting.

God is patient and waits for the full crop.

squint said:

Doesn't really matter according to the universal reality of the sin problem.

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So all religions are the same.

Albion said:

Interesting. Like Democratic Socialism and Communism are the same thing...

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According to Fox news they are!