If Protestantism is true, why they are not united? (2)

By Faith Alone · Aug 11, 2014

squint said:
He was quite clear about his point. Not saying he was entirely accurate, but close:

"IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THE COUNCIL YOU ARE DAMNED!!"

It's a point brought up frequently by protestants in case you didn't notice.

A valid point. What it takes to be a good catholic...good Baptist...good Anglican, etc does not fit the bill. It just so happens I was replying to a catholic.

squint · Aug 11, 2014

By Faith Alone said:
A valid point. What it takes to be a good catholic...good Baptist...good Anglican, etc does not fit the bill. It just so happens I was replying to a catholic.

I know. Was just kind of sticking up for ya.

By Faith Alone · Aug 11, 2014

squint said:
I know. Was just kind of sticking up for ya.

I saw that and thnx. But don't get hit with any rocks aimed at me as an individual.

BTW. I am out of nitro so don't go too far giving me a thumbs up. That ain't the norm with my views. Joshua and Caleb. Remember?

By Faith Alone · Aug 11, 2014

BUMP!!! Let us not lose sight of the topic of the thread my beloved. Anyone care to throw rocks at this?

By Faith Alone said:
We cannot attain a unity of any kind if we do NOT realize the hope of our calling. That includes catholics.

Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

I suppose everyone notices the references to the hope of your calling. I point out the reference of Ephesians 1:18.

2 Peter 1:12...be established in the.... present .truth.
That verse is very important to consider. Over time God has dealt with man in different ways as He so chooses for His Divine purpose.

Rom 10:16-17 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord..... who hath believed our report?..... So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

As new messages come from God there are those that choose not to believe even though they claim to be Godly people. They ignore the message and continue with the status quo. Jeremiah was given a new revelation from God and that message was delivered. Here is how that message was treated:
Jer 36:23 And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.
There is a Jehudi around every corner in Christendom today. Has been that way since the days of Adam and Eve.
There is only a small inner circle that believes the Truth for today and accept God at His Word.

The fact is that there are 3 churches/ekklesias mentioned in the Bible that are IN CHRIST.
Eph 3:15 Of whom ...EVERY.... family in heaven and earth is named,

There is more than one sphere of blessings in God's plan...one for each of the three named churches.
The first church is Israel:
Matt 15:24 I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matt 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matt 16:18....upon this rock I will build my... ISRAEL;

Their hope is the land of Canaan. "The meek shall inherit the earth"..the land of Canaan. That is ...the hope.... of Israel (Acts 28:20)

The second church is the church of the firstborn:

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven
The hope of that calling will be to inherit the New Jerusalem descending DOWN from heaven as seen in Revelation. They are listed in Hebrews chapter 11 and will include the martyrs/overcomers of Revelation. They will live and reign with Christ for a 1,000 years of His total reign as a reward for service. They have a ..BETTER... country (Hebrew 11:16) and a ...BETTER ...resurrection (Hebrews 11:35)....a BETTER hope (7:19)

Clarification before I proceed to the third calling and hope associated with that calling.

The NT and OT divisions are uninspired and are not in the original manuscripts. Malachi left off with Israel in view and Matthew picks up the narrative at the birth of their Messiah in the Person of Jesus Christ. Israel was the focus of the Lord's earthly ministry (Matthew 15:24, Romans 15:8, Hebrews 1:2). Israel was also the main focus of the Acts period (Acts 1:6 and 28:20). The good olive tree and the wild olive tree showed the Gentiles at a disadvantage. The epistles associated with the Acts period were also focusing on Israel.
The first two callings are located under the temporary Heaven that was spread forth as a tent called the firmament. The third calling is not under this temporary heaven and has yet to be revealed until AD 63.

Acts 28 is very important. Please take it to heart. There was a great rent in that chapter. Israel now had their last call to accept Jesus as Messiah but they did not and Israel was set aside as favored nation at that point in time. Paul, being the apostle to the Gentiles (Ephesians 3:1), was then given a new revelation concerning a new group/church/company/ekklesia of redeemed bound for a different and higher hope. This calling was never before revealed in any way, shape or form. It was hid IN God (Ephesians 3:9) and never revealed to anyone (Ephesians 3:5) before that point in time in 63AD. The olive tree was hewn to the roots at Acts 28 and Israel was temporarily set aside as prophesied in Hosea 1:9.

This revelation was for the church which is...HIS...body (Ephesians 1:22,23) and .the hope ..of the calling today is to the Heaven far above all where Christ sits at the right hand of God (Colossians 3:1-4). This calling is the only one that pierces the temporary heavens to the throne of God back to the Heaven of Gensis 1:1. It is the only one associated with His fulness.
This new calling, that numbered Israel among the nations and being on the same plane as Israel, was rejected by all in Asia (2Tim 1:15). They forsook Paul and did not believe the latest report from God.

This new company of redeemed is called the One NEW Man and is not associated with the olive tree as seen in Romans nor is it asscociated with Israel and the Levitical priesthood. This calling is the only calling that was known BEFORE the (katabole/overthrow) of the world (Genesis gap destruction). Those in the earthly sphere are FROM and SINCE the foundation of the world.

Targaryen · Aug 11, 2014

By Faith Alone said:
A valid point. What it takes to be a good catholic...good Baptist...good Anglican, etc does not fit the bill. It just so happens I was replying to a catholic.

Nice deflection but I think people can read fairly critically...well most can. Some get stuck on certain things to make their theories more plausible.

By Faith Alone · Aug 11, 2014

LiberalAnglicanCatholic said:
Nice deflection but I think people can read fairly critically...well most can. Some get stuck on certain things to make their theories more plausible.

Read the very first sentence of my post above in quotes and stop the foolishness. I meant what I said and I said what I meant.

pyramid33 · Aug 13, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
Do you think Jews are Christians?

"There is no longer Jew nor Greek, for all are one in Christ".

catholichomeschooler · Aug 13, 2014

pyramid33 said:
"There is no longer Jew nor Greek, for all are one in Christ".

So you think belief in Christ has nothing to do with being a Christian?

By Faith Alone · Aug 13, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
So you think belief in Christ has nothing to do with being a Christian?

Does being a Jew mean they do not believe?

MoreCoffee · Aug 13, 2014

By Faith Alone said:
BUMP!!! Let us not lose sight of the topic of the thread my beloved. Anyone care to throw rocks at this?

Let's not, here is the first post from this thread, it sets the topic for discussion.

If Protestantism is true, why they are not united?

We know that the Church of Christ is One, and we know that Luther wanted to reform it to the original christianity Purity, however, far from the protestant churches being moved to the original christianity, they have created more than 34,000 different denominations only in USA. What then, Is the Holy Spirit moving them towards division?

By Faith Alone · Aug 13, 2014

MoreCoffee said:
Let's not, here is the first post from this thread, it sets the topic for discussion.

The catholic church is a division too and nothing but another denomination itself. The post is denying the fact that right division and lack thereof is prevalent among all. The post says the church of Christ is one and points to divisions among the protestants when, in fact, the catholic church is not the church of Christ. There are three different churches mentioned and 99 percent miss the mark. Satan has blinded the Truth with doctrines that belong to another dispensation are applied to a time in which they do not belong.

Peter was an apostle to Israel. Paul is the apostle to the gentiles. You cannot separate the catholic church from the disunity when the catholic church is founded upon a lie.

Actually....ALL denominations are protestant for they deny the Truth of dispensations and proper applications.

If you take a genuine look at my posts showing the reason for disunity among all you will see the relevance. If you do not know the Biblical differences in callings and hopes of those callings you are just as confused as the rest.
Why will you not break down my post about the three hopes and callings? I know you cannot deny the facts I stated and be in the ball park. It would be foolish to even try to do so.

Sorry for the hurried post but gotta go.

MoreCoffee · Aug 13, 2014

By Faith Alone said:
MoreCoffee said:

By Faith Alone said:

BUMP!!! Let us not lose sight of the topic of the thread my beloved. Anyone care to throw rocks at this?

Click to expand...

Let's not, here is the first post from this thread, it sets the topic for discussion.

If Protestantism is true, why they are not united?

We know that the Church of Christ is One, and we know that Luther wanted to reform it to the original christianity Purity, however, far from the protestant churches being moved to the original christianity, they have created more than 34,000 different denominations only in USA. What then, Is the Holy Spirit moving them towards division?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The catholic church is a division too and nothing but another denomination itself. The post is denying the fact that right division and lack thereof is prevalent among all. The post says the church of Christ is one and points to divisions among the protestants when, in fact, the catholic church is not the church of Christ. There are three different churches mentioned and 99 percent miss the mark. Satan has blinded the Truth with doctrines that belong to another dispensation are applied to a time in which they do not belong.

Peter was an apostle to Israel. Paul is the apostle to the gentiles. You cannot separate the catholic church from the disunity when the catholic church is founded upon a lie.

Actually....ALL denominations are protestant for they deny the Truth of dispensations and proper applications.

If you take a genuine look at my posts showing the reason for disunity among all you will see the relevance. If you do not know the Biblical differences in callings and hopes of those callings you are just as confused as the rest.
Why will you not break down my post about the three hopes and callings? I know you cannot deny the facts I stated and be in the ball park. It would be foolish to even try to do so.

Sorry for the hurried post but gotta go.

Your reply is off topic; this thread is not about who you can point your finger at, it has a specific thesis; namely, that the multiple divisions in the Protestant religious world are contrary to the teaching of Christ about what the church is to be. Since Jesus Christ and his church are in communion, joined together by baptism and sharing his death and resurrection as well as his life giving presence the question remains how can a divided 'house' stand? If Protestantism offers to its adherents true communion with Jesus Christ then why is Protestantism so divided?

squint · Aug 14, 2014

MoreCoffee said:
Your reply is off topic; this thread is not about who you can point your finger at, it has a specific thesis; namely, that the multiple divisions in the Protestant religious world are contrary to the teaching of Christ about what the church is to be.

Foul on that statement. Most Protestants are just as well connected to the basics as any given orthodox sect. From there matters are only critical if a sect decides to make them so, your sect case in point.

Since Jesus Christ and his church are in communion, joined together by baptism and sharing his death and resurrection as well as his life giving presence the question remains how can a divided 'house' stand?

How can a house that has condemned everyone who disagrees with it stand. If you want to see 'a cause' of division, tag.

If Protestantism offers to its adherents true communion with Jesus Christ then why is Protestantism so divided?

Protestants are united enough. The premise that they aren't is faulty to begin with.

rick357 · Aug 14, 2014

MoreCoffee said:
Your reply is off topic; this thread is not about who you can point your finger at, it has a specific thesis; namely, that the multiple divisions in the Protestant religious world are contrary to the teaching of Christ about what the church is to be. Since Jesus Christ and his church are in communion, joined together by baptism and sharing his death and resurrection as well as his life giving presence the question remains how can a divided 'house' stand? If Protestantism offers to its adherents true communion with Jesus Christ then why is Protestantism so divided?

Unity is not proof of rightousness consider those at babel...further Jesus and Peter and Paul were all observant jews who considered themselves a part of judaism...the gentile debate was never about if the law and prophets where in oposition to Jesus but instead that the Holy Spirit kept law in us as opposed to mans systematic keeping for Pauls argument is that those who do the things contained in the law by nature have no need of the system...so who has left the truth the church was founded on ....those who prefer the commands of men over the commands of God...unity in rebellion is not unity in God.

Albion · Aug 14, 2014

squint said:
Foul on that statement. Most Protestants are just as well connected to the basics as any given orthodox sect.

Actually, his statement is exactly backwards. The Protestant view is precisely that which as advocated and held by Christ, i.e. that discipleship is not a matter of joining an exclusive club. Our Lord called for belief in HIM, not membership in a clique of people who profess such a belief.

That--the latter POV--is exactly what the Gnostic sects of the early years of Church history were like. The mainline church condemned this "secret society" mentality, and yet within a few centuries, it had adopted it for itself! :sorry:

squint · Aug 14, 2014

Albion said:
Actually, his statement is exactly backwards. The Protestant view is precisely that which as advocated and held by Christ, i.e. that discipleship is not a matter of joining an exclusive club. Our Lord made belief in HIM, not membership in a clique of people who profess such a belief.

I give the orthodox churches credit for formulating some of the basics that ALL of us agree to. Can't take that from them.

That--the latter POV--is exactly what the Gnostic sects of the early years of Church history were like. The mainline church condemned this "secret society" mentality, and yet within a few centuries, it had adopted it for itself!

Indeed on that one too. Part of the initial splits of the 'starter' church was the VERY FALSE insistence that they be placed under one head when in fact the BISHOPS of the localized congregations were the only heads. I can see how they needed a functionary to resolve differences, but then again no two churches are alike so the need to make them so is a phony quest to begin with in any case.

Every church of Revelation for example had different pros and cons. They are as good as an example as any of them being dealt with by ONE HEAD, which is CHRIST our LORD, not the man lord pope.

Albion · Aug 14, 2014

squint said:
I give the orthodox churches credit for formulating some of the basics that ALL of us agree to. Can't take that from them.

Formulated? I assume you mean that Greek thinkers were pre-eminent in the church before the church broke into RC, EO, OO, etc.

squint · Aug 14, 2014

Albion said:
Formulated? I assume you mean that Greek thinkers were pre-eminent in the church before the church broke into RC, EO, OO, etc.

I admit to struggling with the term before I posted it.

MoreCoffee · Aug 14, 2014

rick357 said:
MoreCoffee said:

By Faith Alone said:

MoreCoffee said:

By Faith Alone said:

BUMP!!! Let us not lose sight of the topic of the thread my beloved. Anyone care to throw rocks at this?

Click to expand...

Let's not, here is the first post from this thread, it sets the topic for discussion.

If Protestantism is true, why they are not united?

We know that the Church of Christ is One, and we know that Luther wanted to reform it to the original christianity Purity, however, far from the protestant churches being moved to the original christianity, they have created more than 34,000 different denominations only in USA. What then, Is the Holy Spirit moving them towards division?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The catholic church is a division too and nothing but another denomination itself. The post is denying the fact that right division and lack thereof is prevalent among all. The post says the church of Christ is one and points to divisions among the protestants when, in fact, the catholic church is not the church of Christ. There are three different churches mentioned and 99 percent miss the mark. Satan has blinded the Truth with doctrines that belong to another dispensation are applied to a time in which they do not belong.

Peter was an apostle to Israel. Paul is the apostle to the gentiles. You cannot separate the catholic church from the disunity when the catholic church is founded upon a lie.

Actually....ALL denominations are protestant for they deny the Truth of dispensations and proper applications.

If you take a genuine look at my posts showing the reason for disunity among all you will see the relevance. If you do not know the Biblical differences in callings and hopes of those callings you are just as confused as the rest.
Why will you not break down my post about the three hopes and callings? I know you cannot deny the facts I stated and be in the ball park. It would be foolish to even try to do so.

Sorry for the hurried post but gotta go.

Click to expand...

Your reply is off topic; this thread is not about who you can point your finger at, it has a specific thesis; namely, that the multiple divisions in the Protestant religious world are contrary to the teaching of Christ about what the church is to be. Since Jesus Christ and his church are in communion, joined together by baptism and sharing his death and resurrection as well as his life giving presence the question remains how can a divided 'house' stand? If Protestantism offers to its adherents true communion with Jesus Christ then why is Protestantism so divided?

Click to expand...

Unity is not proof of righteousness consider those at babel

Disunity is what is under discussion; disunity is a sign that the disunited are not in union with Christ because Christ remains one and if the body claiming to be his church is splintered that it is obviously not the body of Christ.

...further Jesus and Peter and Paul were all observant Jews who considered themselves a part of Judaism...the gentile debate was never about if the law and prophets where in opposition to Jesus but instead that the Holy Spirit kept law in us as opposed to mans systematic keeping for Paul's argument is that those who do the things contained in the law by nature have no need of the system...so who has left the truth the church was founded on ....those who prefer the commands of men over the commands of God...unity in rebellion is not unity in God.

The above is irrelevant to the thread's topic of discussion.

By Faith Alone · Aug 14, 2014

Albion said:
Formulated? I assume you mean that Greek thinkers were pre-eminent in the church before the church broke into RC, EO, OO, etc.

Great point. Greek mythology gave us "hell" which is not a translation at all.

That also led to the false doctrine of purgatory.

Also gave us "immortal soul" which is foreign to Scriptures. Man BECAME a living soul and does NOT say he was GIVEN one.

Those are only two examples of the danger of accepting tradition over revelation of the Holy Writ.

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