placid
i do not disagree with you that all things ultimatly came from God,
and that really all things go back to him. i simply mean all provisions.
but i do not mean all actions that have evertaken place.
i dont really see where you stand at, concerning predestination, becuase i agree with you that God will get all the glory, becuase in anything we do, he was the author of that action and without him, it couldnt have taken place.
but i do not agree with predestination (well people label this certain belief as predestination, i dont think it should be called by such a simple name)
on the terms of God electing some to go to hell.
really, after all the scripture i can give and have given, i dont believe the common teaching of "predestination or calvinism" because i will never believe that a person is in hell becuase God never elected him to be anywhere else.
if you point at the people in hell, and say even that is the product of the soverien will of God, then i will never agree with you, and yes that is a theology i will not come near.
but it is not a fearing intimidation of it being true that drives me to stay away, but i simply find no place of it in scripture.
or do i find any way to put (God being in control of ever molecule) in common everyday life.
for some reasons i gave earlier.
if what you say is true, then why would God regret?
and how could he be greived?
and how could i be outside his will by believing this lie?
so you think the people in hell right now, are the effects of the great unchanging will of God? even while the bible claims that he died as a ransom for all? and that desires for all men to be saved?
the fact that those are truths, make no room for predestination, becuase there are plenty of people who are not in what is clearly the will of God.
eze
well, you can find any doctrine within the bible if you read certain things certain ways, but we dont have the right or the place to read things certain ways, but what is line with the rest of the oustanding clearly spoken facts.
what gets me, is that people take what is blurry and go from an assumption, and create a doctrine.
but we need to simply stay away from much activity in blurry areas, and take our truths from piercingly clear areas.
i think this is the the fault behind much false doctrine.
im sorry, but you didnt quote psalm 103.19 correctly, and it really isnt saying what you say it does. but it says his kingdom is ruling over all. that simply does not ever begin to say anything about the will of God being binding on anyones actions.
and really, i dont believe the truth of that scripture can be said of today anyway, becuase he does not rule over all presently, he owns all. but all is not under his rulership. fallen and cursed earth is under satans rulership, only in the millenium will it be restored and all things come under the rulership of God.|
refering to dan 4.34-35
i dont think this teaches the binding effect of Gods will on all persons actions either.
i agree, that he does reighn, he is in dominion, and he does as he pleases and no one can stay him or speak agaisnt him.
but i do not think this means that all peoples will automaticly do his will. it does say he does his will in his army.
i agree that the actions of God can never be stopped.
but i dont think this means that will of God can never go unfullfilled.
2 pet 1.10
says you have to make your election sure.
well first of all, if you agree that this is evidence for the election of God to require our efforts also, this does not agree with the theology that those who are meant to be saved simply will be, and those who arent simply werent.
what i think,
its simply saying that in order for you to fullfill your election and have this finished in you, it takes your efforts also.
i dont think this touches on the context of whether or not all are called.
it may be true that being the elect of God is not the same as being the called of God, but rather the saved of God.
but anyway, i dont think this verse touches on the subject of whether or not all are predestined and called to be saved.
esua and the antichrist.
well, i cant say alot about that becuase i really dont know my bible very good on those areas.
but as far as esua goes,
the only thing this can be reffering is Gods will for jacob to receive the birthright instead of esua, because only one could have this and he had to choose.
i dont agree that this is proving that God had bitterness toward him before a cause, but i think the word means that he had a preference over jacob instead.
he chose jacob over esua becuase of whatever it was he saw in him or his actions that gave him reason to be so.
but this did not change esuas life outside of that, he still had the ability to serve God, call on God, be saved by God, accept God, prosper, and succeed in life. what the bible refers to in Gods "hating" of esau, does not mean that esau did not have the ability to call on God and be saved and serve as all men can.
judas and the antichrist,
i really cant prove all this at this moment, so please understand this is just my thinking.
as far as judas, i dont believe judas was called by God to end in that fate. though i do believe God allowed judas to do those things in order to fullfill that purpose, but i dont believe it had to be judas, and i dont believe judas had to do those things.
though that could be wrong, and if it is then i will recall that.
the antichrist,
same thing here,
i dont believe there is anyman whom God simply desires or has purposed to be the antichrist.
but rather God has purposed there to be anti christ, and whoever fullfills this is able to meet this calling.
i dont believe God has pre-doomed any man to be the anti christ, and if he has, then he will simply allow this man to make himself into this, not control him into it or force sin upon him.
there are many times, that God has purposed something to happen, so he finds a man who is working in such a way that would promote this cause, so God simply gives this man freedom to doit and allows him to make those actions, and then he simply uses this man to finish his calling, but i dont think it ever refers to God ever simply controlling the man to do anything that will bring judgment.