What if we have ALL been 'duped'?

Hillsage · Aug 10, 2014

Mar 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Spirit, "The Lord said to my Lord, Sit off My right until I place Your enemies as a footstool for Your feet."
Mark 12:36 δαδ εϲτιν αυτος δαδ ειπεν εν τω πνι τω αγιω ειπε ο κς τω κω μου καθου εκ δεξιων μ(ο&#965 εως αν θω τους εχθρους σου ϋποποδιον των ποδω

37 Then David himself calls him Lord. And from where is he his son? And the large crowd heard Him gladly.
37 σου αυτος δαδ λεγει αυτον κν και ποθεν υς αυτου εστι και πολυς οχλος

How strange it is that Moses was not allowed into the Holy Land not even to be buried there to emphasize that he had not yet received the inheritance God had promised!

As you know I believe that the stages/ages of God's plan span several ages. Moses fulfilled the potential of the age into which he was called in....I assume.

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Heb 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

By faith Abel; By faith Enoch; By faith Noah,; By faith Abraham; By faith Isaac; By faith Jacob; By faith Joseph; By faith Moses; Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Moses’ death, at the end of the Pentateuch in Deuteronomy 34. It flatly contradicts the pattern of expectation that the biblical narrative had accustomed us to, namely, that promises would be fulfilled and lives would reach closure.

Or, I might just add 'the misunderstanding' of 'the biblical narrative accustomed to the church'.

For Moses is not allowed to die in, let alone enter, the land promised

to Israel already in patriarchal days—the land that he had been divinely commanded to return Israel to, without any indication, initially, that he would be barred from it (so Exodus 3, 6:2–9).

Indeed, at the end Moses cannot even be buried in the promised land, as key patriarchal figures had been, including Jacob and Joseph, who had died outside of Israel (Genesis 49:29–50:14, 24–26; Joshua 24:32–33). Rather, Moses dies and is buried outside of the land, across the Jordan River in Moab, a region otherwise often at odds with Israel; and he is buried in a spot unknown, placed there not even by human hands, but by God alone.

True, but my question for you is this; When "the devil argued for the body of Moses" how do you reconcile a devil which apparently dies with the body, wrestling with another angel....er entity, er...whatever you believe.

Now, just so I don't keep seeing red with your continued silence, it becomes incumbent upon me to find out if you qualify as a brother IMO. I'll try to make this real easy; Did you, as an admittedly repentant sinner, ever accept Jesus as the son of God who died for your sins? YEA or NEIGH?

he-man · Aug 10, 2014

Hillsage said:
True, but my question for you is this; When "the devil argued for the body of Moses" how do you reconcile a devil which apparently dies with the body, wrestling with another angel....er entity, er...whatever you believe.

Now who argued about the body of Moses..these people, that is the false accusers who demanded to hand Christ over on the tree and who do not have the Spirit. Nothing about a "fallen angel" here. The simplicity is that ungodly people insult the name of God but Michael refused to play their game and said, "the Lord rebuke thee".

Jud 1:8 In the same way also, these people have visions which make them sin against their own bodies; they despise God's authority and insult the glorious beings above.

9 Not even Michael the archangel, when contending with the false accusers argued about the body of Moses, and did not bring against them any evil speaking insults, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10 But these people attack with insults anything they do not understand; and those things that they know by instinct, like wild animals, are the very things that destroy them.

15 to bring judgment on all, to condemn them all for the godless deeds they have performed and for all the terrible words that godless sinners have spoken against him!"

19 These are the people who cause divisions, who are controlled by their natural desires, who do not have the Spirit.

Hillsage said:
Now, just so I don't keep seeing red with your continued silence, it becomes incumbent upon me to find out if you qualify as a brother IMO. I'll try to make this real easy; Did you, as an admittedly repentant sinner, ever accept Jesus as the son of God who died for your sins? YEA or NEIGH?

I am not sure what you mean by the word "Qualify" Are you asking if I have become legally eligible to say I am a follower of Christ.
Yes, I have accepted Christ as the Son of God, at the age of 18, as an admitted sinner who has put off the "old man" and put on the New Man", Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is impaled with the intent, that the body of sin might vanish away, that no longer are we to be in the bondage of sin.

Hillsage · Aug 10, 2014

he-man said:
Now who argued about the body of Moses..these people, that is the false accusers who demanded to hand Christ over on the tree and who do not have the Spirit. Nothing about a "fallen angel" here. The simplicity is that ungodly people insult the name of God but Michael refused to play their game and said, "the Lord rebuke thee".

Jud 1:8 In the same way also, these people have visions which make them sin against their own bodies; they despise God's authority and insult the glorious beings above.

9 Not even Michael the archangel, when contending with the false accusers argued about the body of Moses, and did not bring against them any evil speaking insults, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

10But these people attack with insults anything they do not understand; and those things that they know by instinct, like wild animals, are the very things that destroy them.

15 to bring judgment on all, to condemn them all for the godless deeds they have performed and for all the terrible words that godless sinners have spoken against him!"

19 These are the people who cause divisions, who are controlled by their natural desires, who do not have the Spirit.

This is good seriously

I say that because the spirit that is in me bears witness that there is something here I've never heard or considered. One spiritual 'check' though as I read; what do you mean by;

"these people...who do not have the Spirit"

What does that mean to you and what is your authority or understanding for saying so in this verse?

I am not sure what you mean by the word "Qualify" Are you asking if I have become legally eligible to say I am a follower of Christ.

Click to expand...

Yes, I am, since you apparently hold back from confirming that I have met whatever qualifiers you have for me to be a 'Brother in Christ' I decided that, instead of wondering if you accepted me, I better make sure I accepted you.

Yes, I have accepted Christ as the Son of God, at the age of 18, as an admitted sinner who has put off the "old man" and put on the New Man", Jesus Christ.

Way to go BRO....BROTHER. :clap:

FYI. I suppose I knew enough of the gospel to get saved, if He'd called me as a Catholic, which He didn't. But at the age of 23 the hound of heaven was hard on my, by then, heathen case. The night I accepted Him as my savior I was living on unemployment, selling drugs and working one night a week in a bar for cash (to keep unemployment check). But if you've read my bio you already know that.

Why the ??? concerning your baptism in your bio? Just a bit of 'don't remember' or 'don't know if you did'? I only remember it happened and that it was in 'flowing stream water'. You know, so nobody else s dirty ole sins would get on me/us....right? ^_^

Oh the foolishness of....young fools sold out for Jesus.

Anto9us · Aug 10, 2014

But after FIFTY-FIVE -- you will have FORGOTTEN IT!

ArchAngel Michael disputed and wrestled about the body of Moses - wrestled so hard Moses was assumed to heaven...

actually it was Jimmy Hoffa who was buried in Moab - but nobody knows where

it is said Hoffa's graveclothes were the Lois Lerner emails printed out

Imagican · Aug 11, 2014

Josephus said:
I think this is an unwarranted judgement. One that is written within the limited exposure you have to the Body of Messiah. Yes, I said limited. You have no right to make this kind off judgement against all churches. No doubt you can point to some examples in your experience, but please avoid generalizing, else you could be very well duped into believing that churches as a whole do not teach life changing truth.

Now that's precious: Life changing truth. Are you SERIOUS?

Jim Jones offered life changing TRUTH to well over a THOUSAND. Not sure of the numbers that were following or had their LIVES ALTERED by Koresh's TRUTH.

And then there is the Catholic Church with it's myriad examples of LIFE altering TRUTH. How MANY is it responsible for SLAUGHTERING and how many MILLIONS of lives has THEIR 'truth' affected?

Now, since you propose, by your very words, to be some sort of EXPERT, YOU tell us WHICH 'church' is teaching the TRUTH. For if you are UNABLE, then you certainly have NO GROUNDS to defend a SINGLE ONE.

In other words, if you are unable or unwilling to TELL US, with all sincerity, WHICH ONE CHURCH is teaching it's followers THE TRUTH, then that means you DON'T KNOW OF ONE. And if you don't KNOW of one, then what you offered in response means absolutely NOTHING other than 'chatter'.

I had drafted about a twenty minute response to your last post a couple of days ago and JUST deleted it before coming to the forums today, JUST A FEW MINUTES ago.

I deleted it for when I re-read it, it was kind of harsh. Don't MEAN to be harsh. Don't mean to be offensive. Just mean to be TRUTHFUL and HONEST. And I couldn't come up with an honest and truthful response without being HARSH or offensive so I deleted it.

But it appears that confrontation is what you desire. And if so, I am MORE than versed and plenty capable.

If you CANNOT prove DIFFERENT than what I have offered WHY would you even ATTEMPT to counter? And if you BELIEVE you have the PROOF that makes it possible to counter, instead of talking around in circles, TELL US of this PROOF you have instead of merely attacking my words. For in what you have offered in TWO separate posts SO FAR, you have offered NOTHING except contrary statements without offering ANYTHING to back them up EXCEPT your opinion. And an opinion based on NOTHING you have offered to WARRANT your opinion except that you HAVE ONE.

Show me the EVIDENCE of the words you speak. I have offered PLENTY that warrant MY conclusion. You have offered absolutely NOTHING except WORDS. And words that I disagree with 110 percent.

If you believe you have a RIGHT to tell me I shouldn't use 'generalized statements', I BELIEVE I have JUST as much RIGHT to offer generalized statements. If you don't LIKE them, show us where they are WRONG. But simply trying to tell me I SHOULDN'T means nothing if you can't show me that in doing so I am WRONG.

So, tell us WHICH denomination YOU are affiliated and SHOW us the PROOF that "YOUR" denomination is the ONLY one that ISN'T 'duped'. Otherwise your words have NO MEANING in TRUTH. They are merely an attempt at political correctness which means NOTHING to me. I am not a politician and if you ARE, you're not getting MY VOTE. I DON'T vote.

Blessings,

MEC

he-man · Aug 11, 2014

Hillsage said:
This is good seriously I say that because the spirit that is in me bears witness that there is something here I've never heard or considered. One spiritual 'check' though as I read; what do you mean by;

Hillsage said:
"these people...who do not have the Spirit" What does that mean to you and what is your authority or understanding for saying so in this verse?

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his

See also 1Jn 4:1-6

Jude 1:19 They are those who are separated from removing impurities of the mind, not having the Spirit.

Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the (verminous) spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. :amen:

Mat 10:1 And he, himself, having bid his twelve disciples, gave them authority over verminous spirits, so that to cast them out, and to cure all sickness and all disease.

Lu 6:18 And they which came to hear him, and to be cured of their sickness; And they that were derangedwith verminous spirits: and they were healed.

Lu 8:35 Then people went out to see what had happened, and they came to Jesus and found the man from whom the demons had gone, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed and free from mental disorder, and they were afraid.

Hillsage said:
Why the ??? concerning your baptism in your bio? Just a bit of 'don't remember' or 'don't know if you did'? I only remember it happened and that it was in 'flowing stream water'. You know, so nobody else s dirty ole sins would get on me/us....right? Oh the foolishness of....young fools sold out for Jesus.

Yes, but Pro 18:4 A person's words can be a source of wisdom, deep as the ocean, fresh as a flowing stream.

:sorry:

Just do not remember the exact date but hey washed by the flowing water , like in
Rev 22:1 The angel also showed me the river of the water of life, sparkling like crystal, and coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb :angel:

Spiritual talents must be used in service to Christ for the glory of God - for the joy and honor of Him who is the Giver of every good gift (I Corinthians 10:31; James 1:17).
Martin G. Collins

Norah63 · Aug 11, 2014

I do wonder how some christians have become Jewish in so many ways.
Church was never like that when I was growing up, many a year ago.
We were taught to tell the gospel to Jew and gentile alike, not conform to their ways.
Now they say if you dont keep the feasts you are not understanding.
Is that being duped?

Der Alte · Aug 11, 2014

Norah63 said:
I do wonder how some christians have become Jewish in so many ways.
Church was never like that when I was growing up, many a year ago.
We were taught to tell the gospel to Jew and gentile alike, not conform to their ways.
Now they say if you dont keep the feasts you are not understanding.
Is that being duped?

I think those who have been convinced, either by their own study or the teaching of others, that they must revert to Judaism and observe all the feasts and festivals, are duped. All those things were only a shadow of the Messiah which was to come. We do not have to observe Passover every year our Passover was slain once for all time. We do not have to make a sin offering every year our perfect sin offering was offered once for all time.

1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Anto9us · Aug 11, 2014

sumpn somewhere about "He doeth away with the first to establish the second"

Hillsage · Aug 11, 2014

he-man said:
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his

See also 1Jn 4:1-6

These verses both speak to the requirements of the NT IMO. And the indwelling spirit of Christ was not available until the crucifixion and 'born again/born anew' speaking of which...you've still not commented upon. Your thoughts on these 2 translationally dependent, biblical terms.

Jude 1:19 They are those who are separated from removing impurities of the mind, not having the Spirit.

This comment, in context, is making referring to those believers of the New Covenant, as verse 17 states;
JUD 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

So I'm not presently convinced of your take with the body of Moses and 'the devil'.

Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the (verminous) spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Mat 10:1 And he, himself, having bid his twelve disciples, gave them authority over verminous spirits, so that to cast them out, and to cure all sickness and all disease.

Lu 6:18 And they which came to hear him, and to be cured of their sickness; And they that were derangedwith verminous spirits: and they were healed.

Lu 8:35 Then people went out to see what had happened, and they came to Jesus and found the man from whom the demons had gone, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed and free from mental disorder, and they were afraid.

I must again fall back on supernatural experiences I've seen/been a part of. Their 'mental disorders' were the result of demonic imput from the outside IMO. Not always though. As stated before 'can't crucify demons' and 'can't cast out the flesh'. People who were physically manifesting and the things that I saw/heard/felt, were not 'just' the result of deranged minds, theirs or mine IMO. These were people whose demons/spirits were simply real and operating under the authority of the 'god of this world' IMO. I just can not deny my experience in dealing with them based upon the verse below.

LUK 10:17 The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!"

The testimony of these disciples is not referring to some counseling degree from 'Jesus school of counseling mental disorders'

and the results weren't the result of 'good teaching' but good authority IMO/IME (Experience) also.

Spiritual talents must be used in service to Christ for the glory of God - for the joy and honor of Him who is the Giver of every good gift (I Corinthians 10:31; James 1:17).

Martin G. Collins

I know nothing of spiritual talents. Talents fall in the soul realm and not the spirit realm IMO. I believe we have soulish talents and spiritual gifts. EG. Bill Clinton has the soulish gift of an evangelist, a talent which he utilized into a run for a governmental president.

Unix · Aug 11, 2014

I'm interested to hear the arguments that support this:

Hillsage said:
I know nothing of spiritual talents. Talents fall in the soul realm and not the spirit realm IMO. I believe we have soulish talents and spiritual gifts. EG. Bill Clinton has the soulish gift of an evangelist, a talent which he utilized into a run for a governmental president:

he-man said:

Spiritual talents must be used in service to Christ for the glory of God - for the joy and honor of Him who is the Giver of every good gift (I Corinthians 10:31; James 1:17).
Martin G. Collins

Click to expand...

he-man · Aug 11, 2014

Hillsage said:
I must again fall back on supernatural experiences I've seen/been a part of. These were people whose demons/spirits were simply real and operating under the authority of the 'god of this world' IMO. I just can not deny my experience in dealing with them based upon the verse below.

You better learn how to deal with it NOW. God creates everything and controls all things for His pleasure. Face it, my Brother, you have been duped!

Exo 4:11 And Jehovah said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? Or who maketh a man dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, Jehovah?

Isaiah 6:9: Go and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. MAKE the HEART of this PEOPLE FAT, and MAKE their EARS HEAVY, and SHUT their EYES; LEST they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, Matthew 13:14,15; ; Mark 4:12; John 12:40;

and particularly Romans 11:8-10: God HATH GIVEN THEM THE SPIRIT of SLUMBER, EYES that they SHOULD not SEE, and EARS that they SHOULD not HEAR; let their EYES be DARKENED, in the same circumstances of willful rebellion and obstinate unbelief; and the great God of heaven and earth is he who judicially blinds their eyes; makes their hearts fat, i.e. stupid; gives them the spirit of slumber: and bows down their back, apostle means the true God by the words the god of this world.

That by the God of this world the supreme Being is meant, who in his judgment gave over the minds of the unbelieving Jews to spiritual darkness, so that destruction came upon them to the uttermost

of THIS WORLD, means simply mankind at large in their state of probation in this lower world, in opposition to their state in the world to come. The same meaning the word has in several other places, to which l need not refer; it simply implying the present state of things, governed by the Divine providence, in contradistinction from the eternal state: and it is very remarkable that, in 1 Timothy 1:17, God himself is calledτω δε βασιλει των αιωνων, the King of the WORLD; what we call King eternal; but here it evidently means him who governs both worlds, and rules in time and eternity.

Some, and particularly the ancient fathers, have connected and have read the verse: But God hath blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this world, Theophylact, and Augustine, all plead for the above meaning; and St. Augustine says that it was the opinion of almost all the ancients.
The Adam Clarke Commentary
2 Corinthians 4 - Adam Clarke Commentary

Which God alone can inflict Mat 10:28 And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jas 4:12 One only is the lawgiver and judge, even He who is able to save and to destroy: but who art thou that judgest thy neighbor?

Hillsage · Aug 11, 2014

Unix said:
I'm interested to hear the arguments that support this:

Oh boy, I went looking for the lesson on my home computer and came up empty. I finally found an old notebook in my file cabinet with an original study I did on it. But I will check on my office computer tomorrow, just to make sure there isn't something there. It's not been something anyone ever cared about before.

Why the interest, if I may ask?

Hillsage · Aug 11, 2014

he-man said:
You better learn how to deal with it NOW. God creates everything and controls all things for His pleasure. Face it, my Brother, you have been duped!

I have learned, by experience. As I just shared. And experience is something you apparently can't relate to. You have truth, we all do. Your dupe appears to be, you and your fellow non experience sources have interpreted the bible down to your level of non experience. Whereas I have experienced things the bible didn't even explain adequately. I think that is because of the effect of men of great intellect and little Holy Spirit.

So like I've said before; My worst experience, enlightened 'with' the Spirit of truth, will always trump your better theology formed 'without'.

Exo 4:11

Click to expand...

And Jehovah said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? Or who maketh a man dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, Jehovah?

Isaiah 6:9: Go and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. MAKE the HEART of this PEOPLE FAT, and MAKE their EARS HEAVY, and SHUT their EYES; LEST they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, Matthew 13:14,15; ; Mark 4:12; John 12:40;

and particularly Romans 11:8-10: God HATH GIVEN THEM THE SPIRIT of SLUMBER, EYES that they SHOULD not SEE, and EARS that they SHOULD not HEAR; let their EYES be DARKENED, in the same circumstances of willful rebellion and obstinate unbelief; and the great God of heaven and earth is he who judicially blinds their eyes; makes their hearts fat, i.e. stupid; gives them the spirit of slumber: and bows down their back, apostle means the true God by the words the god of this world.

That by the God of this world the supreme Being is meant, who in his judgment gave over the minds of the unbelieving Jews to spiritual darkness, so that destruction came upon them to the uttermost

of THIS WORLD, means simply mankind at large in their state of probation in this lower world, in opposition to their state in the world to come. The same meaning the word has in several other places, to which l need not refer; it simply implying the present state of things, governed by the Divine providence, in contradistinction from the eternal state: and it is very remarkable that, in 1 Timothy 1:17, God himself is calledτω δε βασιλει των αιωνων, the King of the WORLD; what we call King eternal; but here it evidently means him who governs both worlds, and rules in time and eternity.

Some, and particularly the ancient fathers, have connected and have read the verse: But God hath blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this world, Theophylact, and Augustine, all plead for the above meaning; and St. Augustine says that it was the opinion of almost all the ancients.
The Adam Clarke Commentary
2 Corinthians 4 - Adam Clarke Commentary

Which God alone can inflict Mat 10:28And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jas 4:12 One only is the lawgiver and judge, even He who is able to save and to destroy: but who art thou that judgest thy neighbor?

Scripture can be read literally, symbolically or spiritually. You've not done the last, because when I look at these verses spiritually I want to use them in my defense against you. Sounds like a 'stand off' to me. :wave:

Imagican · Aug 12, 2014

Norah,

Having read MANY of your posts, including your most recent here on this topic, it is pretty clear that you RECOGNIZE many of the misconceptions offered by different 'churches' or even individuals.

It's NEVER an EASY thing to come to the realization that what you BELIEVE is 'false'. Most people will do just about anything within their power to DENY.

And that is part of what has led me to my conclusion. I INCLUDE myself as a potential candidate for being "DUPED".

While I like to THINK that I have exceptional KNOWLEDGE of God and His will, I too often find myself STRUGGLING with the most BASIC of commandments. There MUST be a 'reason' and I have come to believe that at least a PART of the reason is CONTINUING to try and serve TWO masters.

I LOVE God. I LOVE His Son. But the THINGS that I often DO do NOT reflect that LOVE. WHY? If I am TRULY DEVOTED to God through His Son, then WHY can't I DO what I KNOW that I can and SHOULD be DOING according to God's Word? There HAS TO BE A REASON.

I continually seek the POWER we have been instructed WILL EXIST in the TRUE 'Church' of Christ.

NO, not some BUILDING or 'man made religion', but the TRUE 'Church' or BODY of those that are BELIEVERS AND FOLLOWERS. I have YET to encounter it.

I find people that 'talk a good game', but can't PRODUCE what could be considered ANY KIND of SPIRITUAL POWER except when encountering that which pertains to DARKNESS. Plenty of that going around..............

So what is KEEPING US from PERFORMING that which we have been COMMANDED to perform IF we TRULY love God and His Son? It HAS to be 'something' we are LETTING 'get in the way'. And SPIRITUAL adultery will DO IT every time. Trying to worship MORE than ONE God.

And I am a firm believer that if one starts with an infant and raises that child by teaching them certain THINGS, that child will grow up BELIEVING those 'things'. And MOST times will NEVER be able to alter that belief for they will never even be able to SEE what it is that needs to be altered. It will BECOME a 'part of themselves'.

With this in mind, LOOK at what the world STARTS teaching children from infancy. "Just be yourself", "Do what makes you happy", "Money is the solution for EVERYTHING", "Never let anyone tell you ANYTHING", etc, etc, etc,,,,,,, ALL of this pertaining to SELF and SELF indulgence.

How does one ESCAPE or even have the CHANCE to escape if it is drilled into their heads continually from the time they can understand to the point that it BECOMES a "PART" of their very SOUL.

And once one starts traveling down 'that road', how are they ever going to SEE things any differently. For I can assure you that one CAN be 'brainwashed' to the point that it's VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE to EVER see things clearly again. The brain CAN be 'trained' or 'altered' to the point that such training or altering could take WAY more effort to FIX than it did to mix it up to begin with. And I believe that it works the SAME way with our HEARTS.

Unfortunately everyone I have ever met that I considered to be 'righteous' in their 'walk', once I got to KNOW them have let me down, to the LAST ONE. It's like those that SEEM to be the MOST 'in control' of their Spiritual Walk are often the one's that are LEAST likely to be doing ANYTHING but ACTING. Putting on a GOOD SHOW for the public but as soon as they are behind closed doors, the mask comes off and they turn into: Just OTHER PEOPLE. No different, and sometimes even WORSE than AVERAGE. The ONLY thing exceptional about them is their ACTING ability.

And I am MORE than willing to 'take the heat' from any and EVERYONE that choose to accuse me of living a 'limited existence'. Yet the TRUTH is, I was always QUITE the 'popular guy' and have had MORE than the average amount of acquaintances throughout my lifetime.

But as I get older and older and more and more of the TRUTH is revealed, I find FEWER and FEWER that are even as GOOD at 'acting' as I once THOUGHT they were.

Once again, fault me if you will, but I attest to the FACT that I am being AS HONEST as I am ABLE to be. Offering NOTHING 'bogus' for the sake of 'shock value'. Just PERSONAL observation as accurately as I am ABLE.

If we are not ALL being "DUPED" to an extent, Norah, WHERE is the POWER? Where are the 'things' GREATER than THESE we've been offered WILL EXIST?

I am certainly a BELIEVER that they ONCE existed, but WHERE are they TODAY, right NOW? I see actors performing ACTS, but their lives are as messed up as possible when you truly 'get to know them'.

We are COMMANDED, as FOLLOWERS, to be DIFFERENT. Where is the DIFFERENCE? I see MORE RICH people in 'churches' than POOR PEOPLE. How is this POSSIBLE if it is PRACTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for a 'rich man' to enter the Kingdom of God? I see PASTORS living better than their congregations? HOW is this POSSIBLE in TRUTH? And just about every time I go seeking the NEWS, I see pastors of these 'mega churches' being accused of adultery, drug addiction, stealing from the congregation, LYING, CHEATING, child molesters, the list is ENDLESS. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?

So WHO, WHO can you direct me to that is LIVING what they are willing to SAY they BELIEVE? Where ARE those that DO what they have been commanded to DO in order to receive Salvation?

We have been COMMANDED to 'overcome' AS CHRIST overcame. We are COMMANDED to be PERFECT as our Father in Heaven is PERFECT. We are TOLD without confusion that those that live like the rest of the world are ONLY FOOLING THEMSELVES and TRYING to fool others. Where are THOSE that understand and are FOLLOWING IN TRUTH? Can't seem to FIND ONE.

But if YOU or anyone else KNOWS one, DIRECT me to this PERSON. Heck, from the perspective of some, there are LOTS of them OUT THERE. I would be content to find JUST ONE.

Blessings,

MEC

he-man · Aug 12, 2014

Hillsage said:
Your dupe appears to be, you and your fellow non experience sources have interpreted the bible down to your level of non experience.

Non experience? 1 Corinthians 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
Now who has been deluded/conned/deceived? the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men

Hillsage said:
Scripture can be read literally, symbolically or spiritually. You've not done the last, because when I look at these verses spiritually I want to use them in my defense against you. Sounds like a 'stand off' to me.

Not hardly, but if you have a hinderance or stumbling block listen to what God says in the Bible and not by listening to the precepts of men.

1 Timothy 1:17, God himself is called τω δε βασιλει των αιωνων, the King of the WORLD; what we call King eternal!

Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the least of men.

If everything was destroyed that means your satan is no longer alive.

Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

So as is stated in verse 4 there is none else, no satan, no other gods, no superhuman beings with pitchforks!

Deu 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Deu 10:14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Deu 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

1Ch 29:11 Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.

BukiRob · Aug 12, 2014

Imagican said:
Norah,

Having read MANY of your posts, including your most recent here on this topic, it is pretty clear that you RECOGNIZE many of the misconceptions offered by different 'churches' or even individuals.

It's NEVER an EASY thing to come to the realization that what you BELIEVE is 'false'. Most people will do just about anything within their power to DENY.

And that is part of what has led me to my conclusion. I INCLUDE myself as a potential candidate for being "DUPED".

While I like to THINK that I have exceptional KNOWLEDGE of God and His will, I too often find myself STRUGGLING with the most BASIC of commandments. There MUST be a 'reason' and I have come to believe that at least a PART of the reason is CONTINUING to try and serve TWO masters.

I LOVE God. I LOVE His Son. But the THINGS that I often DO do NOT reflect that LOVE. WHY? If I am TRULY DEVOTED to God through His Son, then WHY can't I DO what I KNOW that I can and SHOULD be DOING according to God's Word? There HAS TO BE A REASON.

I continually seek the POWER we have been instructed WILL EXIST in the TRUE 'Church' of Christ.

NO, not some BUILDING or 'man made religion', but the TRUE 'Church' or BODY of those that are BELIEVERS AND FOLLOWERS. I have YET to encounter it.

I find people that 'talk a good game', but can't PRODUCE what could be considered ANY KIND of SPIRITUAL POWER except when encountering that which pertains to DARKNESS. Plenty of that going around..............

So what is KEEPING US from PERFORMING that which we have been COMMANDED to perform IF we TRULY love God and His Son? It HAS to be 'something' we are LETTING 'get in the way'. And SPIRITUAL adultery will DO IT every time. Trying to worship MORE than ONE God.

And I am a firm believer that if one starts with an infant and raises that child by teaching them certain THINGS, that child will grow up BELIEVING those 'things'. And MOST times will NEVER be able to alter that belief for they will never even be able to SEE what it is that needs to be altered. It will BECOME a 'part of themselves'.

With this in mind, LOOK at what the world STARTS teaching children from infancy. "Just be yourself", "Do what makes you happy", "Money is the solution for EVERYTHING", "Never let anyone tell you ANYTHING", etc, etc, etc,,,,,,, ALL of this pertaining to SELF and SELF indulgence.

How does one ESCAPE or even have the CHANCE to escape if it is drilled into their heads continually from the time they can understand to the point that it BECOMES a "PART" of their very SOUL.

And once one starts traveling down 'that road', how are they ever going to SEE things any differently. For I can assure you that one CAN be 'brainwashed' to the point that it's VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE to EVER see things clearly again. The brain CAN be 'trained' or 'altered' to the point that such training or altering could take WAY more effort to FIX than it did to mix it up to begin with. And I believe that it works the SAME way with our HEARTS.

Unfortunately everyone I have ever met that I considered to be 'righteous' in their 'walk', once I got to KNOW them have let me down, to the LAST ONE. It's like those that SEEM to be the MOST 'in control' of their Spiritual Walk are often the one's that are LEAST likely to be doing ANYTHING but ACTING. Putting on a GOOD SHOW for the public but as soon as they are behind closed doors, the mask comes off and they turn into: Just OTHER PEOPLE. No different, and sometimes even WORSE than AVERAGE. The ONLY thing exceptional about them is their ACTING ability.

And I am MORE than willing to 'take the heat' from any and EVERYONE that choose to accuse me of living a 'limited existence'. Yet the TRUTH is, I was always QUITE the 'popular guy' and have had MORE than the average amount of acquaintances throughout my lifetime.

But as I get older and older and more and more of the TRUTH is revealed, I find FEWER and FEWER that are even as GOOD at 'acting' as I once THOUGHT they were.

Once again, fault me if you will, but I attest to the FACT that I am being AS HONEST as I am ABLE to be. Offering NOTHING 'bogus' for the sake of 'shock value'. Just PERSONAL observation as accurately as I am ABLE.

If we are not ALL being "DUPED" to an extent, Norah, WHERE is the POWER? Where are the 'things' GREATER than THESE we've been offered WILL EXIST?

I am certainly a BELIEVER that they ONCE existed, but WHERE are they TODAY, right NOW? I see actors performing ACTS, but their lives are as messed up as possible when you truly 'get to know them'.

We are COMMANDED, as FOLLOWERS, to be DIFFERENT. Where is the DIFFERENCE? I see MORE RICH people in 'churches' than POOR PEOPLE. How is this POSSIBLE if it is PRACTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for a 'rich man' to enter the Kingdom of God? I see PASTORS living better than their congregations? HOW is this POSSIBLE in TRUTH? And just about every time I go seeking the NEWS, I see pastors of these 'mega churches' being accused of adultery, drug addiction, stealing from the congregation, LYING, CHEATING, child molesters, the list is ENDLESS. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?

So WHO, WHO can you direct me to that is LIVING what they are willing to SAY they BELIEVE? Where ARE those that DO what they have been commanded to DO in order to receive Salvation?

We have been COMMANDED to 'overcome' AS CHRIST overcame. We are COMMANDED to be PERFECT as our Father in Heaven is PERFECT. We are TOLD without confusion that those that live like the rest of the world are ONLY FOOLING THEMSELVES and TRYING to fool others. Where are THOSE that understand and are FOLLOWING IN TRUTH? Can't seem to FIND ONE.

But if YOU or anyone else KNOWS one, DIRECT me to this PERSON. Heck, from the perspective of some, there are LOTS of them OUT THERE. I would be content to find JUST ONE.

Blessings,

MEC

Yep....... I feel you on this. The gross hypocrisy drove me away from the "church" The whole some 'sins' are ignored but others are attacked vigorously by those in the 'church.'

One is a backbiting, hateful, spite-filled gossip and liar? No problem we ignore that... another struggles with smoking weed and drinking? Whoa, we cant have any of that kind of sin!

But, hey the fat pig who eats like a pig? No condemnation there!

I am a filthy, dirty rotten sinner. My flesh loves to wallow in sin. But my heart HATES it. I hate the sin that so easily besets me. But, you have to keep getting up and keep walking, and resisting.

Imagican · Aug 12, 2014

BukiRob said:
Yep....... I feel you on this. The gross hypocrisy drove me away from the "church" The whole some 'sins' are ignored but others are attacked vigorously by those in the 'church.'

One is a backbiting, hateful, spite-filled gossip and liar? No problem we ignore that... another struggles with smoking weed and drinking? Whoa, we cant have any of that kind of sin!

But, hey the fat pig who eats like a pig? No condemnation there!

I am a filthy, dirty rotten sinner. My flesh loves to wallow in sin. But my heart HATES it. I hate the sin that so easily besets me. But, you have to keep getting up and keep walking, and resisting.

Nope. Buki, not even TRYING to indicate we should 'give up'. Maybe TRY a LITTLE harder, (a LOT), instead.

And isn't it funny how that works. It's OK to be a glutton or drunk but "God Forbid" should someone be revealed to be a "POT SMOKER". Amazing how EASY it is for SOME to pick and choose which sins MATTER.

I will offer an absolute "AMEN" to your post, my friend. It seems that maybe I'm NOT the ONLY one that has the experience I have outlined.

Blessings,

MEC

Hillsage · Aug 12, 2014

he-man said:
Non experience? 1 Corinthians 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
Now who has been deluded/conned/deceived? the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men Not hardly, but if you have a hinderance or stumbling block listen to what God says in the Bible and not by listening to the precepts of men.

Correct, that's why I'm not listening to you or the men you follow.

1 Timothy 1:17, God himself is called τω δε βασιλει των αιωνων, the King of the WORLD; what we call King eternal!

Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the least of men.

If everything was destroyed that means your satan is no longer alive.

Everything that is contrary to God. If Satan/devil/dragon/serpent are but created entities by Him and for Him only that aspect of their works never makes it through the lake of fire which our God is. IMO of course.

Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

"destroyed" machah: prop. to stroke or rub; by impl. to erase; also to smooth (as if with oil), i.e. grease or make fat; also to touch,i.e. reach to

The "substance" is not destroyed as you define destruction. If it was then they would never undergo any other kind of judgment, because they would have already been annihilated...according to your 'dupe' anyway.

So as is stated in verse 4 there is none else, no satan, no other gods, no superhuman beings with pitchforks!

If Satan were a 'substance' being you might be correct. Since he isn't...maybe not.

Deu 4:39

Click to expand...

Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Deu 10:14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Deu 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

1Ch 29:11 Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.

and

he-man · Aug 12, 2014

Hillsage said:
Correct, that's why I'm not listening to you or the men you follow.

Not my words but the Bible: Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the least of men.

Hillsage said:
Everything that is contrary to God. If Satan/devil/dragon/serpent are but created entities by Him and for Him only that aspect of their works never makes it through the lake of fire which our God is. IMO of course

What do you think your Satan/devil/dragon/serpent is made from and when or where did it come from?

Hillsage said:
"destroyed" machah: prop. to stroke or rub; by impl. to erase; also to smooth (as if with oil), i.e. grease or make fat; also to touch,i.e. reach to

Opps! You missed a few:
abolish, blot out, destroy, full of marrow, put out, reach unto, X utterly, wipe (away, out).

Hillsage said:
The "substance" is not destroyed as you define destruction. If it was then they would never undergo any other kind of judgment, because they would have already been annihilated...according to your 'dupe' anyway.

You said it man! abolish, blot out, destroy utterly, wipe (away, out)

Hillsage said:
If Satan were a 'substance' being you might be correct. Since he isn't...maybe not.

If you claim he is not substance then what in the world do you think your Satan/devil/dragon/serpent is made from and when or where did it/he/she come from and God said man has dominion over everything?

Gen_1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

What if we have ALL been 'duped'?

One 4 Him & Him 4 all

he-man

One 4 Him & Him 4 all

Well-Known Member

old dude

he-man

Newbie

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Well-Known Member

One 4 Him & Him 4 all

Hebr incl Sirach&epigraph, Hermeneut,Ptolemy,Samar

he-man

One 4 Him & Him 4 all

One 4 Him & Him 4 all

old dude

he-man

Newbie

old dude

One 4 Him & Him 4 all

he-man

Similar threads