Zionist Dispensationalism and War Crimes Against Palestinians

JM said:

Is there a link between the Zionist theology of Judaism, the Zionism of Dispensational eschatology and the war crimes that are currently being committed by Israel against the Palestinians?

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Wow, don't blame Darby and Scofield for Gaza! I know some people see the need to discredit Darby and Scofield (I appreciate them) but if so there must be a less tortuous way...

In any case, the rapture of the church and the day of the Lord in Scripture are distinct, leaving aside politics.

What I want to know is what possess people to fire rockets indiscriminately at the civilians of a militarily superior adversary. It was sort of like Amaziah challenged Joash to battle. It doesn't make Joash a great guy, but Amaziah was still in the wrong for instigating a fight against a superior enemy.

JM said:

Is there a link between the Zionist theology of Judaism, the Zionism of Dispensational eschatology and the war crimes that are currently being committed by Israel against the Palestinians?

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not sure, but I do find certain Christians who seem to be all 'rah-rah' Israel to be a bit odd. I saw someone on here the other day comment that they found the fighting in Gaza 'exciting'. I am sure that excitement was because they thought it was related to some end time belief. Either way I thought it was a in poor taste.

I think Christians who are watching Israel for end time stuff are way off the mark. The secular state of Israel doesn't play into end time theology in my opinion.

Hmm...isn't it a war crime to use civilians as human shields? Just askin'

Steve Petersen said:

Hmm...isn't it a war crime to use civilians as human shields? Just askin'

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of course. who said it wasn't?

JM said:

...not blaming Dispensationalism for Gaza but I do blame dispensationalism for ignoring the aggressive acts Israel has been allowed to get away with over the years. They have a long history of breaking UN resolutions.

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Yeah, I've definitely seen this as well. I think it's pretty clear that Hamas (and Islam as a whole) is the core problem, but it's not a good idea to suggest Israel is somehow totally innocent in all of this. Some people are rallying behind Israel like they can do no wrong, and that's not a realistic view.

On the other hand, I also know people who are openly condemning Israel and blaming them for everything, while claiming the Palestinians are totally innocent and don't deserve any of this. Also not a realistic view. Antisemitism has become oddly popular again.

JM said:

That's exactly it. The whole, "let's get the Jews back to Israel rah, rah" thing bothers me. Israel is committing war crimes and world will give them a pass. Watch. (not a prophecy, just an educated guess)

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Israel are not committing war crimes...but that is what everyone is so quick to pick up on because Moslem propaganda has such great influence on Western cililization, especially Christians...and you honestly think the world is just ignoring Israel and giving them a pass...most of the headlines I have read condemn Israel in the strongest possible terms...but they are all doing it now before the real statistics are revealed and before the motives of Hamas expose the true evil.

At least in my admittedly limited view, Israel does have a claim to the land. The so-called "Palestinians" do not. There has never been a nation called Palestine. The word refers to a region of land. They could just as easily call it Canaan. The fact is, Israel does exist. And they do have a right to defend themselves against attack.

nobdysfool said:

At least in my admittedly limited view, Israel does have a claim to the land. The so-called "Palestinians" do not. There has never been a nation called Palestine. The word refers to a region of land. They could just as easily call it Canaan. The fact is, Israel does exist. And they do have a right to defend themselves against attack.

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I think another factor to bear in mind is that the Arabs ended up with the lions portion of what was called Palestine, and could have had even more if they had not attempted to annihilate the Jews...something many advocates for the Palestinian cause neglect to reveal and only refer to the map of so-called shrinking Palestinian territory that involves current day Israel.

Jordan itself was part of Palestine designated for the Jewish homeland, but was another State created by Churchill at the stroke of a pen, thus taking away about 75% of what should have been Israel...the remainder was divided approx 55% to the Jews and 45% to the Arabs.

JM said:

Zeek, why drop the "o" in the English word God?

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I've done it for years and years...because I have a number of Orthodox Jewish friends and they are somewhat careful in not taking the name of the L-rd in vain...it doesn't give me a problem and these days I only ever get challenged on it about twice a year.

I am well aware that G-d and L-rd do not really represent what is meant by taking His name in vain, but nevertheless rather than switching from one to another and forgetting...I just stick to this, but I am not bound to it.

JM said:

Is there a link between the Zionist theology of Judaism, the Zionism of Dispensational eschatology and the war crimes that are currently being committed by Israel against the Palestinians?

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I'm for Israel in their current conflict. I wish they were let off the leash so they could get it over with.

JM said:

Is there a link between the Zionist theology of Judaism, the Zionism of Dispensational eschatology and the war crimes that are currently being committed by Israel against the Palestinians?

Click to expand...

I would say that Israel is not committing war crimes. They are responding to rocket fire from Gaza where the Hamas "government" use their civilians as human shields. That is the war crime in my opinion. The Hamas Charter states unequivocally their reason for existence, their goal and the code they live by and it has nothing to do with Israel's blockade of Gaza or any perceived occupation of Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem. The fact that Israel exists at all is enough to fuel their need to destroy it and kill every Jew.

I count myself as Zionist and Reformed because the Bible has a Zionist message. I found it difficult to hold this view in the Reformed church as I was being labelled Dispensationalist. Then I discovered what C.H. Spurgeon said regarding Jewish resettlement in their homeland and their restoration to God. And that showed me I can be Zionist and not Dispensationalist.

To be Zionist, you do not have to agree with everything Israel does, and some of their actions can be quite brutal. The Bible is clear also about the responsibility of treating others amongst them as equals. However, when faced with a determined and openly stated goal of destroying Israel, and violent actions to prove it, Israel must take steps to protect its own citizens, both Arabs and Jews, and defend its right to exist. Otherwise it fails to be responsible towards its own.

JM said:

Is there a link between the Zionist theology of Judaism, the Zionism of Dispensational eschatology and the war crimes that are currently being committed by Israel against the Palestinians?

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Does the popularity of dispensationalism/Christian Zionism in America influence a foreign policy that encourages and empowers Israel? I'd say yes.

Speaking as a dispensationalist, the attitude that Israel is immune to criticism is not helpful and not moral. We Americans live in a huge country without anything like the kind of strife now taking place in the small area of Israel-Palestine. We don't know how to relate to this. Yes, the promises made to Abraham will be fulfilled. But this will not be accomplished by military conquest.

- The Australian - August o9, 2014

We’ll fight radical Islam for 100 years, says ex-army head Peter Leahy


AUSTRALIA needs to prepare for an increasingly savage, 100-year war against radical Islam that will be fought on home soil as well as foreign lands, the former head of the army, Peter Leahy, has warned.

Professor Leahy, a leading defence and strategic analyst, told The Weekend Australian the country was ill-prepared for the high cost of fighting a war that would be paid in “blood and treasure” and would require pre-emptive as well as reactive action.

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Some thoughts concerning the broader debate…and approaching end game.


ww.youtube.com/watch?v=3dBzslDdQ_g