They're Gay, They're Christian And They're Celibate!

Gwendolyn said:

Well, that is what I have known, too, which is part of why I get annoyed when Catholics call homosexual attraction "SSA" like it's a disease, something you acquire rather than just experience unconsciously.

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That's the whole point: to emphasize one's "brokenness" and "fallen-ness."

But if Catholics associate "gay" with "sexually active homosexual", then I guess I understand calling it "SSA" instead.

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It's only certain Catholics that do this. In my opinion, a lot of people who are so insistent about making a big deal over words feel morally superior to "them." Of course, they deny it. They say that they, too, suffer temptations. Of course, this lot considers their big sins to be peccadilloes compared to the nastiness of homosexuality. They deny that this is the case, but you will know them by their fruits

LivingWordUnity said:

The Church doesn't single out homosexuals and say that they are the only ones who sin. We are all born with concupiscence because of original sin. We all have the "disease" of sin. And sin does have a contagious nature no matter what kind of sin we are talking about. But even if someone is born with SSA it would be compatible with the doctrine of original sin and concupiscence. It may be that this concupiscence is manifested in some as SSA while in most others it is manifested with temptations to heterosexual kinds of sins.

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Indeed, and despite protestations to the contrary, so many believe that, in terms of gravity:

homosexual sin > heterosexual sin.

And in terms of inherent value and worth:

heterosexual person > homosexual person

Trust me, I "know my place."

I hate it, but I know where my "place" in the Church is: tolerated but not truly accepted.

Needing_Grace said:

Indeed, and despite protestations to the contrary, so many believe that, in terms of gravity:

homosexual sin > heterosexual sin.

And in terms of inherent value and worth:

heterosexual person > homosexual person

Trust me, I "know my place."

I hate it, but I know where my "place" in the Church is: tolerated but not truly accepted.

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Stop worrying about what others might think of you. If you went to confession and received absolution you are just as much in the Church as anyone else is. I've committed some sins that I'm very ashamed of, and there are people who I know made a choice not to forgive me. But if I always dwell on it then I won't have any peace. So I focus instead on God's mercy and how He forgave those sins when I repented and went to confession. Remember that the Church is a hospital for sinners, and the sacraments are like the medicine that makes us well.

MikeK said:

I don't assume that someone who calls themselves gay is sexually active. Do you?
Truth be told, I really don't make assumptions about anyone's sexual activities or lack thereof, besides maybe Mary's.

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Mike, you gotta stop making so much sense. Pretty soon you'll be attracting people back to mass, pulling people out from under their social anxiety rocks, and doing all manner of emotional uplifting for the downtrodden. You've really gotta stop being such a good person.

Needing_Grace said:

That's the whole point: to emphasize one's "brokenness" and "fallen-ness."



It's only certain Catholics that do this. In my opinion, a lot of people who are so insistent about making a big deal over words feel morally superior to "them." Of course, they deny it. They say that they, too, suffer temptations. Of course, this lot considers their big sins to be peccadilloes compared to the nastiness of homosexuality. They deny that this is the case, but you will know them by their fruits

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now who is the one assuming?

you sure love going into this "us and them" mentality

as for adding emphasis to the brokenness of SSA, well pop culture keeps saying that acting on those inclination is a normal and good thing to do.
so someone should speak out that about the brokenness of it

The term "gay" is a horrible word quite frankly. These people are just like the rest of us except for the fact they struggle with same-sex attraction. Do we call inappropriate content addicts a special name? Let's pretend we call them "bleeths". They want to be considered a unique style of human being because of their penchant for watching inappropriate content. Or should we call people who struggle with not forgiving their neighbors "friddles." And then the people who have an eating disorder "troobles." And we'll call people who struggle with drug addiction "burbles."

Why don't we just make a special name for each struggle and pretend that these people are intrinsically different than the rest? Yeah, makes sense. Or maybe it doesn't, and it's absurd.

These folks suffer from same-sex attraction, a disorder that is a result of the Fall. It's a disorder. By calling them "gay" we actually HELP to spread the propaganda of the moderns that subtly acknowledges them as intrinsically made a special way that is intended to be special and unique. It's not. It's a result of sin.

Let's just call them men and women who suffer from SSA. I hear people say, "uh, yeah, dude, but that takes too long to say." I'd rather type extra key strokes than be an agent of the LGBT propaganda machine that seeks to create a new class of human being.

Regarding the OP, I think it's not only laudable that these folks are seeking to live a celibate and holy life, I would wager they'll be in a higher mansion of heaven than many of us. To struggle with such a tough, challenging, painful disorder and go through your whole life not being able to love the opposite sex or have children or feel normal, that's hard. God bless them for sticking with the struggle rather than selling out to the idiotic carpe diem feelgood liberal fascists that are brainwashing us all to do as the late Satanist Aleister Crowley admonished us to do----"do as thou wilt!"

I prefer Similar Gender Attraction. Or Wisdom Teeth Impaction. Or 1.21 Jiggawatts. Whatever you call it, some guys are just hot.

Caedmon said:

I prefer Similar Gender Attraction. Or Wisdom Teeth Impaction. Or 1.21 Jiggawatts. Whatever you call it, some guys are just hot.

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I think we can all agree that this is a problem that can only be fixed by long-winded semi-coherent rants spanning several paragraphs.

LivingWordUnity said:

How does that statement disprove what I said? And I didn't make any assumption about any individual. I was talking about the term "gay" in the general sense of what it most often means. Take a look at the LGBT lobby. Do you get the impression that they would be for celibacy?

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I was responding to Rhamiel's statement, not yours. You can tell by the way I quoted his post in my reply. I am aware that most Americans (including Christians, including heterosexuals) participate in both masturbation and fornication (both of which are violations of celibacy) and if forced to guess I suspect the lgbt lobby is not substantially different. Again though, I prefer to focus on my sins than contemplate how often other groups of people I've never met sin and in which ways.

MikeK said:

Again though, I prefer to focus on my sins than contemplate how often other groups of people I've never met sin and in which ways.

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What do you think of the USCCB's Fortnight for Freedom?

MikeK said:

I think we can all agree that this is a problem that can only be fixed by long-winded semi-coherent rants spanning several paragraphs.

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Or a smug ad hominem post.

LivingWordUnity said:

What do you think of the USCCB's Fortnight for Freedom?

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I think it was a nice couple of weeks. I also think you're unclear on what an as homonym is. A criticism of a long winded incoherent rant specifically for being long-winded and incoherent is rather the opposite of what an as homonym is. Back to the Fortnight - it is a shame that Catholic Charities elected to leave the adoption game in Boston. They had a shot at making it work. In Illinois they were likely right to drop their lawsuit, because, as I mentioned before, adoption services are not and have never been considered to be religious expression or Sacraments. That is precisely why the State can regulate them, and it is why it is foolish to use these cases as evidence that the Church will be successfully sued for refusing to grant Sacraments to people sexual relationships that the Church has a longstanding moral opposition to.

It certainly won't be solved by quick soundbytes of arrogant sarcasm either!

MikeK said:

I think we can all agree that this is a problem that can only be fixed by long-winded semi-coherent rants spanning several paragraphs.

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Have you noticed that most liberal folks who buy into the "gay" agenda and unwittingly help further the legitimacy of the intrinsically gay idea have no reply? They know they're not supporting what their Church teaches, so they resort to smarty pants one-liners and "you're hysterical" arguments. Trust me, LWU, when they resort to these comments, you know who's right and who's on the wrong side of the argument. Supporting this agenda is dangerous to not only other people whom one can poison the mind of, but it also puts the person themselves in spiritual jeopardy, the arrogance of it especially!

LivingWordUnity said:

Or a smug ad hominem post.

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LivingWordUnity said:

Stop worrying about what others might think of you. If you went to confession and received absolution you are just as much in the Church as anyone else is. I've committed some sins that I'm very ashamed of, and there are people who I know made a choice not to forgive me. But if I always dwell on it then I won't have any peace. So I focus instead on God's mercy and how He forgave those sins when I repented and went to confession. Remember that the Church is a hospital for sinners, and the sacraments are like the medicine that makes us well.

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Very well said. When you come out of a full, humble confession you are as pure as a virgin. Pure as a baptized infant. God forgives, so you should forgive yourself.

**What I mean by "pure as a virgin" is if ANYONE committed any sexual sins and repents of them, they are forgiven. Period.

I'm not so sure. I know I DEEPLY respect someone struggling with SSA who keeps up the battle and doesn't give in to what society is brainwashing you to think. I imagine in the end the people struggling with this who stay the course, maybe fall to the sin here and there, but get up and dust themselves off and admit the Church knows better than society, I imagine these folks will be the greatest in God's kingdom. You just might be one of the greatest, NG. I admire your strength and staying in the marathon. You sound like a good man to me. Ironically it's the "gay" community that spreads the idea that people with SSA are a unique and different type of human being, their own species of mankind, set apart, and they pound and pound and pound this idea into our heads 24/7 on TV and film and in the media be it magazines, internet, newspapers, etc. They constantly focus on the differences and make them a different class of people. I often meditate on how damaging that really is for someone with SSA. I know if you went to my church and told me you struggled with SSA but you admit it's a struggle and that you side with my Church's view that it's a sin, that you are attracted to other men, but won't drink the media Kool-Aid, shoot, I'd have a huge admiration for you. You wouldn't be tolerated, I'd admire it.

Needing_Grace said:

Indeed, and despite protestations to the contrary, so many believe that, in terms of gravity:

homosexual sin > heterosexual sin.

And in terms of inherent value and worth:

heterosexual person > homosexual person

Trust me, I "know my place."

I hate it, but I know where my "place" in the Church is: tolerated but not truly accepted.

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Rhamiel said:

now who is the one assuming?

you sure love going into this "us and them" mentality

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I don't deny that I have a bit of a martyr complex. I do tend to be intimidated in certain situations and church is one of them.

In virtually all cases, when the gayness is brought up, among so many, noses get twisted, lips get puckered, assumptions about what people are doing when they're alone. It must always, always be explained, "oh, but I'm fighting the fight of chastity!"

Why can't the assumption be that a person who say that they are gay is simply primarily attracted to members of the sex, full stop. Outside of a very particular group of people, that's all the word "gay" means! It's only politicized by those who, for some reason or another, have to add a sinister undertone to virtually everything and presume that everyone is prowling hookup sites or the bathhouses looking for a play date, or two...

as for adding emphasis to the brokenness of SSA, well pop culture keeps saying that acting on those inclination is a normal and good thing to do.
so someone should speak out that about the brokenness of it

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Pop culture. LOL! Me? Pop culture?

I know little of this pop culture you speak of, seriously. My idea of TV is Star Trek of all flavors, other science fiction and 80s and 90s sit-coms and the occasional old game show. Total bubble boy here when it comes to that sort of thing.

Still only feel tolerated. But whatever. *shrug*

@Tallguy

Simply the condition of being gay is not a sin....acting upon it is. So if you are saying you know people who are gay, and yet know the truth and have chosen the celibate life for christ, then God bless them

Needing_Grace does have a point.

If I tell someone I am heterosexual, they do not immediately assume I am having wild sex.

So why do others assume that about homosexual people?

I think the problem is more with the people doing the assuming than the person using an adjective to describe themselves.

And please don't say "because all homosexuals are promiscuous sex addicts" or something ridiculous like that. Generalisations help no one.