The Resurrection Body

N

n2thelight

Guest
Im about to be called many things,non-Christian may be one of them,but I really want to discuss the topic....

I don't feel the scriptures teach that our bodies rise from the grave,therefore Im in agreement with the following............


The Resurrection Body



In ancient Egypt, Pharaohs drove their slaves to build huge pyramids to house their dead bodies. They filled these tombs with immense treasures of gold and all kinds of utensils that might be of service in their coming life. They cultivated the art of embalming, so that their bodies could be preserved for thousands of years with the least possible amount of decay. It's as if they thought that by taking such elaborate precautions, they could be prepared for the life to come. Apparently, they believed that their souls would one day return into those mummified bodies, and they wanted everything to be ready.

This is a stark contrast with the attitude expressed by Jesus. One of His disciples asked him, "Let me first go bury my father." Jesus said, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead" (Matthew 8:21-22, Luke 9:59-60). For Jesus, the dead body was of no consequence.

For Christians, the focus is not meant to be on the body that has died, but on the spirit that rises into the coming life. For two thousand years, Christians have been nourished by the hope that their loved ones who have died are happy in heaven with the Lord, not lying cold and dead in the ground. Nevertheless, some people believe that the resurrection will be a resurrection of the physical body that lies in the grave, and that when a person dies the soul remains unconscious for years or centuries until Christ comes again and brings all the bodies out of the grave and reawakens the souls that are sleeping within those bodies. Yet it is not only more comforting to picture a person rising immediately into the next life after death, but it is also more in keeping with the teachings of the Bible.
We Rise Soon after Death

Jesus tells of a poor man Lazarus and his rich neighbor who both died. The rich man ended up in hell, while Lazarus went up to heaven. (Luke 16: 22-24) Both of them came into the next life immediately after death. There was no hint here of a long wait to come back into their bodies, for the rich man's brothers were still alive on earth.

When Jesus was on the cross He promised one of the thieves, "Todayyou will be with Me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). Jesus did not say, "Just wait twenty centuries or more, and I will fix up your body again."
Since we rise immediately after death, people who have died are in the spiritual world, and they can be seen by those whose spiritual sight is open. For example, when Peter, James and John had their eyes opened to see Jesus in His glory, they also saw Moses and Elijah, who were clearly not in their graves. When Saul went to the witch of En Dor, he spoke with the spirit of Samuel who appeared as an old man (1 Samuel 28: 3-19), and Lazarus found himself in the bosom of Abraham in heaven (Luke 16:22-24). In fact, when Jesus said to the Sadducees that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the God of the living, not the dead, the clear implication is that Abramam, Isaac and Jacob had already risen from death into life (Matthew 22:31-32; Mark 12:26-27; Luke 20:37-38). He is "the God of the Living," not "the God of the dead who will centuries later come back to life."

Angels have sometimes appeared to people whose eyes were opened to see them. Very often, the Bible says that these angels are people. For example, we read that three men appeared to Abraham (Genesis 18: 2), and that when Jacob wrestled with an angel he wrestled with a man (Genesis 32: 24). Likewise, the angels were people who appeared to Joshua (Joshua 5: 13-14), Manoah and his wife (Judges 13: 6-11), Ezekiel (Ezekiel 9: 2-3,11; 10: 2-3,6), Daniel (Daniel 9: 21; 10: 5; 12: 6-7), Zechariah (Zechariah 1:8,11), and the women at the sepulcher (Mark 16: 5; Luke 24: 4). The Bible says these angels were people, and clearly none of them were still in the grave.
There Is a Spiritual Body

The Bible teaches that we rise with a different body than the one that is placed in the grave. "There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body" (1 Corinthians 15: 44). The natural body is what is "sown" in the grave, and the spiritual body is what is raised up (1 Corinthians 15: 37, 42-44). People on earth have an earthly body, while people in heaven have a spiritual, heavenly body (1 Corinthians 15: 46-49). The fact that people in the spiritual world have a spiritual body is evident from the appearance of angels mentioned above. For example, Saul recognized Samuel after his death because he had a body similar to the body he had on earth. Clearly it was Samuel's spiritual body, since his physical body was still in grave, and it was his spirit (1 Samuel 28:13) that had risen and was conversing with Saul.

The fact that there is a spiritual body is also clear from the story of Lazarus and the rich man. After death Lazarus was in the bosom of Abraham; the rich man lifted his eyes, and asked that Lazarus might dip his finger in water to cool his tongue (Luke 16: 22-24).

The body we have in the spiritual world is not the body that we put into the grave. The Bible says that our physical body is corruptible and mortal, which means that it does not last, but rots and dies. "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption" (1 Corinthians 15: 50). "We brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out" (1 Timothy 6:7). When we go to our eternal home "then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it" (Ecclesiastes 12:5, 7; compare Genesis 3:19). So our earthly body cannot go to heaven, but when we put off our physical body, our corruptible and mortal life is changed into an incorruptible and immortal life (1 Corinthians 15: 53-54). Evidently when Paul said this, some people were wondering if everyone would sleep a long time in the grave before the resurrection, for Paul reassures people that we will not all sleep, and that it will not take ages but will happen immediately, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, that is, when we die.
The Grain of Wheat

One of the ways that Jesus teaches us about the life after death is by saying, "Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain" (John 12: 24; compare Matthew 13:31; Mark 4:31; Luke 13:19). This is very similar to the analogy that Paul uses: "Someone will say, 'How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?' Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. But God gives it a body as he pleases, and to each seed its own body." (1 Corinthians 15: 35-38)

When a seed is put into the ground, the outer husk of this seed simply rots away. But within that seed is a germ of life that is raised up with a completely new plant or body around it. Paul says very clearly here that the body which is raised is not the body which is put into the ground. Furthermore, when the farmer plants his seed, it immediately begins growing. It does not remain dormant in the ground for centuries before a new life begins. Likewise, when our bodies are buried in the ground, the germ of life within each of us is immediately raised up clothed with a new body appropriate for the spiritual world.
 
N

n2thelight

Guest
Continued

Objections

Those who believe in a resurrection of the physical body may quote passages to support that belief, but an examination of those passages will show that this is not the teaching of the passages themselves, but is an assumption that is read into them.
What about Job's Prophecy?

Job says, "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin [worms] destroy this [body], yet in my flesh shall I see God" (Job 19:25,26, King James Version). Some people have assumed that the "latter day" means the end of the world, and that "worms destroying this body" means the body rotting in the grave. In fact, the original Hebrew does not mention either "worms" or "body". A more accurate translation is: "And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, that in my flesh shall I see God…" (New King James Version).

Job was not talking about his body rotting in the grave, but about the fact that his skin was already virtually destroyed by the boils that covered him from head to foot (Job 2:7, 19:20). When he said, "in my flesh I shall see God," he was not talking about some future time when his body would be resurrected, but he was saying that he would see God before he died, while he was still alive in the body he had. At the end of the book of Job God did appear to Job, and Job said, " I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees You" (Job 42:5). And so the prophecy was fulfilled, that in his flesh he would see God. We can also see that God redeemed him at that time, for we are told, "The Lord accepted Job. And the Lord restored Job's losses…. Indeed the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before" (Job 42:9-10). The same chapter shows us what Job meant by "the latter day," for we read, "Now the Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning" (Job 42:12).
Taken in context, this passage says nothing at all about the resurrection of the physical body centuries later, yet it has been taken as a primary passage supporting that concept.
What about the Last Day?

In one passage Jesus says that He will raise people up "at the last day" (John 6: 39-54). From that passage alone, we would not know whether He meant "the last day of the world" or "the last day of their earthly lives." In a similar way, Jesus says in the previous chapter, "The hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth" (John 5: 28, 19). The context shows He was speaking not of a resurrection still centuries distant, but in the present tense. "The Father raises up the dead, and gives life to them…. The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live" (John 5: 21, 25). Clearly, this resurrection was already taking place. Consequently, when Martha spoke of her brother Lazarus remaining in the tomb until "the resurrection at the last day," Jesus corrected her by saying, "I am the resurrection and the life," implying that the resurrection was present. Jesus continued, "He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die." When we view the teachings about being raised at "the last day" in this context, it becomes clear that it must mean "the last day of their lives."
Resurrection from Evil or Despair

There are two different ways in which the Lord brings us from death into life. Every person who dies is brought to life in the spiritual world, either in heaven like Lazarus or in hell like the rich man. Our body dies but our spirit lives on in the next life. There's another way in which the Lord brings us from death into life: he brings us out of evil, which is spiritual death, and gives us heavenly life. Many passages in the Bible that speak of resurrection are referring to the second kind of resurrection, which is coming from an evil state into a good one (see Romans 6:4; Ephesians 2:1, 5-6; Colossians 2:12; 3:1). So for example, we read, "He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies" (Romans 8:11). Taken out of context, this might seem like a reference to physical resurrection. But the context shows that is referring to giving us spiritual life while we are still alive on this earth, for the passage says, " If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness…. If you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live" (Romans 8:10, 13). Sometimes a misunderstanding of the Bible arises from confusing these two kinds of resurrection.

For example, Ezekiel had a vision of dry bones that were brought together, had flesh put on them and were brought to life. Some people have taken this as a description of how our bodies will be reassembled at the time of resurrection. But in fact, the dry bones that appeared in that vision were not dead people. Rather, the Lord said to Ezekiel that these bones represented the people of Israel, who felt like "dry bones" because they were in captivity (Ezekiel 37:11). The Lord bringing the bones of out of their graves was a symbol of His promise to bring the people of Israel back from their captivity into their own land. It was not a prophecy of a physical resurrection.

Something similar is meant by Isaiah's prophecy, "Shake yourself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem" (Isaiah 52: 2), and Daniel's words: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2; compare 1 Kings 16:2). Paul says, "Awake, you who sleep, arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light" (Ephesians 5: 14). This does not refer to people who are physically dead and a physical resurrection, but to those who are spiritually dead and their regeneration.
What about the Firstborn from the Dead?

The Bible says that Jesus was the "first born from the dead" (Romans 8:18). Some people have taken this to mean that no one was ever raised from the dead before Jesus was. This would imply that all who died prior to Jesus remained asleep in the ground at least until after His resurrection. But this is a distortion of that teaching. Often being "first" does not mean first in time, but first in importance, as when Jesus speaks of the first commandment (Mark 12:29; Matthew 22:38), and when He says that "the first shall be last and the last shall be first" (Mark 9:35; 10:31, Matthew 19:30; 20:16) Jesus is not only said to be the first born from the dead, but also the first born of every creature (Romans 8:15).

He is said to be first born because he existed from eternity and created all things, and because he is pre-eminent among all that have been raised from the dead (Romans 8: 16-18; compare John 1:1-9). When Jesus was about to be raised from the dead, He prayed, "And now, O Father, glorify Me with Your own self with the glory which I had with You before the world was" (John 17:5). Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58), so there was no need for Abraham to wait in the grave for centuries to be raised to life, and Jesus could be first among the dead even though others had died and were raised before Him.
What about the Natural Bodies Raised by Jesus?

There are many stories of people who were raised from the dead by Jesus and the prophets before him (Luke 7:11-16; 8:41-56; Matthew 9:18-26; Mark 5:22-43; John 11:1-54; 1 Kings 17:17-23; 2 Kings 4:32-37; 13: 21; Acts 9:37-40; 20:9-12). When Jesus worked the miracle of raising someone from the dead, the person's physical body came back to life. Some people have assumed from this that all resurrection will involve the physical body coming back to life. This assumption is unwarranted. When those who died were brought back to life in the physical body, the physical body was never made immortal or incorruptible. All of those people soon left their physical bodies in the grave once more.

Furthermore, in every case those who were brought back to life were resurrected within a few days of having died. We are never given an example of someone being brought back to life after thousands of years of sleep in grave. If Jesus had wanted us to think that resurrection happens after thousands of years in the grave, He could have raised Abraham or David from the dead. Instead, He raised people who had just died, to show that resurrection takes place soon after death, and the life of the soul continues even when the life of the body ends.
What about Jesus' Body?

Jesus' resurrection shows the pattern which ours will follow, yet there must also be a difference. Some have thought that we will rise with our physical bodies because Jesus rose with His. But if leaving behind the physical body makes us different from Christ, staying in the grave for centuries would make our resurrection even less like His. Jesus repeatedly told His disciples that He would rise on the third day (Matthew 16:21; 17:23; 20:19; 27:63; Luke 9:22; 18:33; 24:7; 24:46; Mark 8:31), and Scripture also shows that what is true of Him in this case will also be true of us. "After two days will He revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight" (Hosea 6:2). "Today you will be with Me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). At the same time, Jesus taught that for the rest of us the spirit would rise without the body when He said, "A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have" (Luke 24:39).
The Graves Opened and the Dead Appearing

After Jesus rose from the tomb, the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. (Matthew 27:52-53). This passage is not explicit. Were their physical bodies raised, or their spiritual bodies? How long had they been "sleeping"--centuries, or just a few days? What happened to those saints afterwards? Where are they now? Does the holy city mean the Jerusalem in this world, or the new Jerusalem in heaven (Revelation 21:2; 22:19)? This passage clearly shows that the Lord's resurrection brings resurrection to others, but it does not give us any reason to expect centuries of sleep before our resurrection.
Eternal Life Has Begun

Eternal life is not something that is waiting for us in the distant future. There is no reason to think that we have to wait for a long time, for Jesus tells us that for those who accept the life He gives, the kingdom of heaven is already within them (Luke 17:21), and they have already begun living eternally (John 5:24, 17:2, 1 John 5: 11, 12, 20). That life is not interrupted by death, but rather becomes more abundant and complete.

What the Bible Says about…
 
Upvote 0

JohnRabbit

just trying to understand
Supporter
Feb 12, 2009
4,383
320
i am in alabama
✟55,288.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
:confused: We Rise Soon after Death :confused:

what about the resurrection?

we only rise due to a resurrection!


1 Corinthians 15:12-14(NKJV)
12Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
14And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.

the resurrection is how we "rise" after death and the resurrection takes place at a specific time!

for those that are in the faith, it happens at Christ's second coming!


Revelation 20:4-6(NKJV)
4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

the first resurrection doesn't even take place until Christ returns!

then what about what i've highlighted in verse 5?

do you see that part about "did not live again"?

doesn't that suggest that one is either alive or dead?

you can't rise in any state if you're not alive!

so, this notion that we rise immediately after death can't be correct! (wake up! lazarus and the rich man is a parable!)



what does the bible say about the dead, other than the fact that they are not alive (rev 5:10)?


Psalms 30:9(NKJV)
9 “What profit is there in my blood, When I go down to the pit? (the grave) Will the dust praise You? Will it declare Your truth?

when we die we return to dust, see gen 3:19

Psalms 115:17(NKJV)
17 The dead do not praise the Lord, Nor any who go down into silence.


Ecclesiastes 9:5(NKJV)
5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecclesiastes 9:10(NKJV)
10Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.

notice that it says the grave is where you are going, not heaven or hell!

basically, the bible says that we can't do anything when we die simply because we are not alive!

we are not an immortal spirit/soul "housed" in a "body"!

we are flesh and blood dependent on this earthly environment for our existence.

abraham knew this. when speaking to the Lord he said this:


Genesis 18:27(NKJV)
27Then Abraham answered and said, “Indeed now, I who am but dust and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord:

abraham didn't say that he was a "spirit housed in a body"!

finally, since God created us and knew we came from the dust of the ground and to return there after death, He also told us where our life is:


Leviticus 17:11-14(NKJV)
11For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.’ (Christ shed His blood or gave His life for us!)
12Therefore I said to the children of Israel, ‘No one among you shall eat blood, nor shall any stranger who dwells among you eat blood.’
13“Whatever man of the children of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell among you, who hunts and catches any animal or bird that may be eaten, he shall pour out its blood and cover it with dust;
14for it is the life of all flesh. Its blood sustains its life. Therefore I said to the children of Israel, ‘You shall not eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.’


our life is in the blood that flows through our veins, not in some "soul/spirit" that is merely "housed" in some "body"!

death truly is the absence of life!

so many believe the lie that was told in the garden of eden:


Genesis 3:4(NKJV)
4Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
 
Upvote 0

JohnRabbit

just trying to understand
Supporter
Feb 12, 2009
4,383
320
i am in alabama
✟55,288.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Continued

Objections

Those who believe in a resurrection of the physical body may quote passages to support that belief, but an examination of those passages will show that this is not the teaching of the passages themselves, but is an assumption that is read into them.
What about Job's Prophecy?

Job says, "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin [worms] destroy this [body], yet in my flesh shall I see God" (Job 19:25,26, King James Version). Some people have assumed that the "latter day" means the end of the world, and that "worms destroying this body" means the body rotting in the grave. In fact, the original Hebrew does not mention either "worms" or "body". A more accurate translation is: "And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, that in my flesh shall I see God…" (New King James Version).

Job was not talking about his body rotting in the grave, but about the fact that his skin was already virtually destroyed by the boils that covered him from head to foot (Job 2:7, 19:20). When he said, "in my flesh I shall see God," he was not talking about some future time when his body would be resurrected, but he was saying that he would see God before he died, while he was still alive in the body he had. At the end of the book of Job God did appear to Job, and Job said, " I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees You" (Job 42:5). And so the prophecy was fulfilled, that in his flesh he would see God. We can also see that God redeemed him at that time, for we are told, "The Lord accepted Job. And the Lord restored Job's losses…. Indeed the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before" (Job 42:9-10). The same chapter shows us what Job meant by "the latter day," for we read, "Now the Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning" (Job 42:12).
Taken in context, this passage says nothing at all about the resurrection of the physical body centuries later, yet it has been taken as a primary passage supporting that concept.

i'll address your "continued" section point by point.

first let's state that the bible does speak of physical resurrection and i will point out scripture that supports it, like you say.

what you've written about job here, i really have no contest.

however, job does mention something in chapter 14 that goes to the heart of your soliloquy:


Job 14:1-2(NKJV)
1 “Man who is born of woman Is of few days and full of trouble.
2 He comes forth like a flower and fades away; He flees like a shadow and does not continue.

what job says if different from what you said:

you said: "the life of the soul continues even when the life of the body ends"

you say continue, Job says does not continue, interesting.


let's see what else job says:


Job 14:10-15(NKJV)
10 But man dies and is laid away; Indeed he breathes his last And where is he?
11 As water disappears from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dries up,
12 So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, They will not awake Nor be roused from their sleep. (not alive in any state)
13 “Oh, that You would hide me in the grave, That You would conceal me until Your wrath is past, That You would appoint me a set time, and remember me!
14 If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait, Till my change comes.
15 You shall call, and I will answer You; You shall desire the work of Your hands.

job seems to be very matter of fact about death and what all it entails.

it is interesting that he doesn't mention any of the things you speak about dying and continuing on to somewhere else.

and it also seems that he thinks that he'll have to wait to live again, as in wait for a resurrection, i.e. verses 14-15.
 
Upvote 0

JohnRabbit

just trying to understand
Supporter
Feb 12, 2009
4,383
320
i am in alabama
✟55,288.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Continued


What about the Last Day?

In one passage Jesus says that He will raise people up "at the last day" (John 6: 39-54). From that passage alone, we would not know whether He meant "the last day of the world" or "the last day of their earthly lives." In a similar way, Jesus says in the previous chapter, "The hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth" (John 5: 28, 19). The context shows He was speaking not of a resurrection still centuries distant, but in the present tense. "The Father raises up the dead, and gives life to them…. The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live" (John 5: 21, 25). Clearly, this resurrection was already taking place.

i have already quoted rev 20 that shows WHEN the resurrection takes place for the saints and it was indeed centuries after the quote you stated from john 5:25.

in fact, paul says that there is an order to the resurrections, in which there will be more than one as rev 20:5,6 implies!


1 Corinthians 15:22-23(NKJV)
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
23But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. (rev 20:4-6)

so, clearly there was no resurrection taking place!




Consequently, when Martha spoke of her brother Lazarus remaining in the tomb until "the resurrection at the last day," Jesus corrected her by saying, "I am the resurrection and the life," implying that the resurrection was present. Jesus continued, "He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die." When we view the teachings about being raised at "the last day" in this context, it becomes clear that it must mean "the last day of their lives."


"the last day" must mean conjecture on your part? :confused:

let's look at what the bible says about the last day:


Leviticus 23:33-36(NKJV)
33Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
34“Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days to the Lord.
35On the first day there shall be a holy convocation (a sabbath). You shall do no customary work on it.
36For seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. On the eighth day you shall have a holy convocation (another sabbath), and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. It is a sacred assembly, and you shall do no customary work on it.

from the Holy Days of the Lord, spoken of in lev 23, it explains about the "last day".

the Feast of Tabernacles is a seven day festival which represents the coming millennial reign of Jesus Christ and the day after the feast is what the jews called the "The Great Last Day", which represents the Great White throne Judgment.

this is why martha said what she did, because she kept the Holy Days and knew their significance!

remember that rev 20:5 said that "the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years had finished":


Revelation 20:11-13(NKJV)
11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

this is the second resurrection!

Jesus didn't correct martha, He simply told her something she didn't know!

with the fact that "christianity" has kicked God's Sabbaths and Holy Days to the curb, it's no wonder that few know their significance.
 
Upvote 0

JohnRabbit

just trying to understand
Supporter
Feb 12, 2009
4,383
320
i am in alabama
✟55,288.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Resurrection from Evil or Despair

There are two different ways in which the Lord brings us from death into life. Every person who dies is brought to life in the spiritual world, either in heaven like Lazarus or in hell like the rich man. Our body dies but our spirit lives on in the next life. There's another way in which the Lord brings us from death into life: he brings us out of evil, which is spiritual death, and gives us heavenly life. Many passages in the Bible that speak of resurrection are referring to the second kind of resurrection, which is coming from an evil state into a good one (see Romans 6:4; Ephesians 2:1, 5-6; Colossians 2:12; 3:1). So for example, we read, "He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies" (Romans 8:11). Taken out of context, this might seem like a reference to physical resurrection. But the context shows that is referring to giving us spiritual life while we are still alive on this earth, for the passage says, " If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness…. If you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live" (Romans 8:10, 13). Sometimes a misunderstanding of the Bible arises from confusing these two kinds of resurrection.


it's sad that you warn about taking verses out of context, but that's exactly what you do by referring to "lazarus and the rich man" as other than a parable.

there's no way a spirit that we posses lives on in a next life, because i have shown that God says that our life is in the blood of our veins (lev 17).

so you would contradict God by saying that our life is in some "spirit".

i've also quoted verses that shows that everyone who dies simply does not have life and can't go anywhere or do anything.

the "two-way resurrection" you speak of is again conjecture and speculation on your part and has no scriptural basis, remember that paul gave the order of the resurrections - 1cor 15:20-23.

i agree that there are scriptures that refers to us as "spiritually" dead, but that refers more to our understanding spiritual concepts, using metaphors to emphasize a point, rather than doctrine to support your errant theology.



For example, Ezekiel had a vision of dry bones that were brought together, had flesh put on them and were brought to life. Some people have taken this as a description of how our bodies will be reassembled at the time of resurrection. But in fact, the dry bones that appeared in that vision were not dead people. Rather, the Lord said to Ezekiel that these bones represented the people of Israel, who felt like "dry bones" because they were in captivity (Ezekiel 37:11). The Lord bringing the bones of out of their graves was a symbol of His promise to bring the people of Israel back from their captivity into their own land. It was not a prophecy of a physical resurrection.

Something similar is meant by Isaiah's prophecy, "Shake yourself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem" (Isaiah 52: 2), and Daniel's words: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2; compare 1 Kings 16:2). Paul says, "Awake, you who sleep, arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light" (Ephesians 5: 14). This does not refer to people who are physically dead and a physical resurrection, but to those who are spiritually dead and their regeneration.

here you simply ignore scripture to satisfy your errant theology, when ezk 37:3-4 is clearly talking about a resurrection.

this is a prophecy that hasn't taken place yet because it happens after Christ returns! (surely ezk 37:24 is a big hint)

then you list a bunch of verses and you are totally out of context.

for example, the quote from daniel you cite says that some will awake to everlasting life! that happens at the first resurrection which is yet future, per rev 20:6!
 
Upvote 0

JohnRabbit

just trying to understand
Supporter
Feb 12, 2009
4,383
320
i am in alabama
✟55,288.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Continued


What about the Firstborn from the Dead?

The Bible says that Jesus was the "first born from the dead" (Romans 8:18). Some people have taken this to mean that no one was ever raised from the dead before Jesus was. This would imply that all who died prior to Jesus remained asleep in the ground at least until after His resurrection. But this is a distortion of that teaching. Often being "first" does not mean first in time, but first in importance, as when Jesus speaks of the first commandment (Mark 12:29; Matthew 22:38), and when He says that "the first shall be last and the last shall be first" (Mark 9:35; 10:31, Matthew 19:30; 20:16) Jesus is not only said to be the first born from the dead, but also the first born of every creature (Romans 8:15).

He is said to be first born because he existed from eternity and created all things, and because he is pre-eminent among all that have been raised from the dead (Romans 8: 16-18; compare John 1:1-9). When Jesus was about to be raised from the dead, He prayed, "And now, O Father, glorify Me with Your own self with the glory which I had with You before the world was" (John 17:5). Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58), so there was no need for Abraham to wait in the grave for centuries to be raised to life, and Jesus could be first among the dead even though others had died and were raised before Him.


all who have died is still dead waiting on a resurrection to live again, save Christ!

Jesus is firstborn because He is the first to resurrected in glory.

let's revisit the rev 20:4-6


Revelation 20:4-6(NKJV)
4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

the part i have highlighted in blue in verse 6 tells us what we need to know.

the "second death" has no power over the saints at that time because they have eternal life (matt 25:31,34, jn 3:16, rom 6:23). this is why they who attain the first resurrection are blessed!

this is the same type of resurrection that Jesus had after He was raised back to life after the cross (rom 8:11).

this is why He is called the firstborn from the dead because, as of now, no one else has that distinction!

He was born again of the Spirit and has a spirit body. that's what born again means.

He said so:


John 3:5-8(NKJV)
5Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
8The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

notice verse 6!

i don't know anyone on this planet that has a spirit body and i'm sure you don't either!

look, paul confirms it:


1 Corinthians 15:50(NKJV)
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

that's why we too, must be born again to enter the kingdom.

Jesus is pre-eminent because no one else has been literally changed from flesh and blood to spirit!

so His pre-eminence has nothing to do with others being resurrected before Him.
 
Upvote 0

JohnRabbit

just trying to understand
Supporter
Feb 12, 2009
4,383
320
i am in alabama
✟55,288.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Continued


What about the Natural Bodies Raised by Jesus?

There are many stories of people who were raised from the dead by Jesus and the prophets before him (Luke 7:11-16; 8:41-56; Matthew 9:18-26; Mark 5:22-43; John 11:1-54; 1 Kings 17:17-23; 2 Kings 4:32-37; 13: 21; Acts 9:37-40; 20:9-12). When Jesus worked the miracle of raising someone from the dead, the person's physical body came back to life. Some people have assumed from this that all resurrection will involve the physical body coming back to life. This assumption is unwarranted. When those who died were brought back to life in the physical body, the physical body was never made immortal or incorruptible. All of those people soon left their physical bodies in the grave once more.

Furthermore, in every case those who were brought back to life were resurrected within a few days of having died. We are never given an example of someone being brought back to life after thousands of years of sleep in grave. If Jesus had wanted us to think that resurrection happens after thousands of years in the grave, He could have raised Abraham or David from the dead. Instead, He raised people who had just died, to show that resurrection takes place soon after death, and the life of the soul continues even when the life of the body ends.


most of what you have written here about the physical resurrections performed by Jesus and others is on the level, but what i've highlighted in blue shows where you stray into conjecture again.


as shown earlier there is no life of the soul that continues after the body ends.

case in point:


Ezekiel 18:4(NKJV)
4 “Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.


souls die! (you say the direct opposite, see the problem here?)

souls die because we are souls, it's that simple.


Genesis 2:7(KJV)
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


man became a living soul, not "has" a living soul.
 
Upvote 0

JohnRabbit

just trying to understand
Supporter
Feb 12, 2009
4,383
320
i am in alabama
✟55,288.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Continued


What about Jesus' Body?

Jesus' resurrection shows the pattern which ours will follow, yet there must also be a difference. Some have thought that we will rise with our physical bodies because Jesus rose with His. But if leaving behind the physical body makes us different from Christ, staying in the grave for centuries would make our resurrection even less like His. Jesus repeatedly told His disciples that He would rise on the third day (Matthew 16:21; 17:23; 20:19; 27:63; Luke 9:22; 18:33; 24:7; 24:46; Mark 8:31), and Scripture also shows that what is true of Him in this case will also be true of us. "After two days will He revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight" (Hosea 6:2). "Today you will be with Me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). At the same time, Jesus taught that for the rest of us the spirit would rise without the body when He said, "A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have" (Luke 24:39).


again, here you're out of context and showing a certain lack of understanding of the scripture.

let's look at what Jesus said to nicodemus:


John 3:13(NKJV)
13No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

no one has died and gone to heaven like you claim and so many believe, Jesus said so.

but even if you wanted to get into semantics and say "He said no one ascended to heaven" and that means something different.

you simply can't do it because when you die you have no life, therefore you can't ascend, descend or do anything because you're not alive. (we've already covered that)



here's more from scripture:


Acts 2:29,34(NKJV)
29“Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
34“For David did not ascend into the heavens...

even after Christ's ascension, we find that peter tells us that david, a man after God's own heart, is still dead in the grave!

david is not in heaven as you would have us to believe because the resurrection of the dead is still a future event to us.



this prophecy tells when david will rise:


Jeremiah 30:8-9(NKJV)
8 ‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’ Says the Lord of hosts, ‘That I will break his yoke from your neck, And will burst your bonds; Foreigners shall no more enslave them.
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God, And David their king, Whom I will raise up for them.

speaking of the time when israel and judah will be reunited, God says that david will be resurrected to be their king.

this obviously happens after the Christ returns in the latter days, verse 24.

this directly ties into the prophecy given by ezekiel 37!

Christ did appear to the disciples in the flesh after His resurrection but it is clear that He is a spirit being able to manifest Himself, He even vanished before their eyes in lk 24:31!

remember that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1cor 15:50), so we need to stay in context at all times.
 
Upvote 0

JohnRabbit

just trying to understand
Supporter
Feb 12, 2009
4,383
320
i am in alabama
✟55,288.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Continued


The Graves Opened and the Dead Appearing

After Jesus rose from the tomb, the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. (Matthew 27:52-53). This passage is not explicit. Were their physical bodies raised, or their spiritual bodies? How long had they been "sleeping"--centuries, or just a few days? What happened to those saints afterwards? Where are they now? Does the holy city mean the Jerusalem in this world, or the new Jerusalem in heaven (Revelation 21:2; 22:19)? This passage clearly shows that the Lord's resurrection brings resurrection to others, but it does not give us any reason to expect centuries of sleep before our resurrection. :confused:

these saints were obviously resurrected back to physical life as testament to the power of God and the resurrection to come. they went into jerusalem and were seen by the locals there.

they didn't go to heaven most likely lived their life out and returned back to the grave.

here again people like to embellish this part of the scripture to validate something that simply isn't true.

the order of the resurrections are set as scripture tells us.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JohnRabbit

just trying to understand
Supporter
Feb 12, 2009
4,383
320
i am in alabama
✟55,288.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Continued


:confused: Eternal Life Has Begun :confused:

Eternal life is not something that is waiting for us in the distant future. There is no reason to think that we have to wait for a long time, for Jesus tells us that for those who accept the life He gives, the kingdom of heaven is already within them (Luke 17:21), and they have already begun living eternally (John 5:24, 17:2, 1 John 5: 11, 12, 20). That life is not interrupted by death, but rather becomes more abundant and complete.


finally, what i have highlighted in blue is simply not true.

again, rev 20:4-6 shows that we receive eternal life at Christ's second coming.

review matt 25:31-34 to help see the context. (see also dan 2:44, rev 11:15)

Christ will establish the kingdom at His second coming and by being born again we can then enter His glorious kingdom.



the kingdom is within us? :confused:

let's see:


Luke 17:20-21(NKJV)
20Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation;
21nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

many believe that the kingdom is in us but on thorough examination we see something totally different about this verse 21.

if we notice who asked Jesus the question, it is unlikely that He was telling the pharisees that the kingdom was within them. Jesus called them hypocrites and brood of vipers.

so it wouldn't make sense for Him to tell them that they had the kingdom of God in them.

the word "within" is the greek "entos", which is from the root, "en", which can mean "among".

"among" is more likely the better translation here.



we have the plant kingdom, animal kingdom, the angelic kingdom and then there's the God kingdom.

Jesus was from the God kingdom and for Him to say to the pharisees "indeed the kingdom of God is 'among' you" would make the most since, given his audience.

He was standing right there in front of them!

so, the kingdom doesn't enter into us we are to enter the kingdom!


Mark 10:25(NKJV)
25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
 
Upvote 0

JLB777

Newbie
Supporter
Jun 18, 2012
5,905
1,258
✟403,811.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Continued

Objections

Those who believe in a resurrection of the physical body may quote passages to support that belief, but an examination of those passages will show that this is not the teaching of the passages themselves, but is an assumption that is read into them.
What about Job's Prophecy?

Job says, "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin [worms] destroy this [body], yet in my flesh shall I see God" (Job 19:25,26, King James Version). Some people have assumed that the "latter day" means the end of the world, and that "worms destroying this body" means the body rotting in the grave. In fact, the original Hebrew does not mention either "worms" or "body". A more accurate translation is: "And after my skin is destroyed, this I know, that in my flesh shall I see God…" (New King James Version).

Job was not talking about his body rotting in the grave, but about the fact that his skin was already virtually destroyed by the boils that covered him from head to foot (Job 2:7, 19:20). When he said, "in my flesh I shall see God," he was not talking about some future time when his body would be resurrected, but he was saying that he would see God before he died, while he was still alive in the body he had. At the end of the book of Job God did appear to Job, and Job said, " I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees You" (Job 42:5). And so the prophecy was fulfilled, that in his flesh he would see God. We can also see that God redeemed him at that time, for we are told, "The Lord accepted Job. And the Lord restored Job's losses…. Indeed the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before" (Job 42:9-10). The same chapter shows us what Job meant by "the latter day," for we read, "Now the Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning" (Job 42:12).
Taken in context, this passage says nothing at all about the resurrection of the physical body centuries later, yet it has been taken as a primary passage supporting that concept.
What about the Last Day?

In one passage Jesus says that He will raise people up "at the last day" (John 6: 39-54). From that passage alone, we would not know whether He meant "the last day of the world" or "the last day of their earthly lives." In a similar way, Jesus says in the previous chapter, "The hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth" (John 5: 28, 19). The context shows He was speaking not of a resurrection still centuries distant, but in the present tense. "The Father raises up the dead, and gives life to them…. The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live" (John 5: 21, 25). Clearly, this resurrection was already taking place. Consequently, when Martha spoke of her brother Lazarus remaining in the tomb until "the resurrection at the last day," Jesus corrected her by saying, "I am the resurrection and the life," implying that the resurrection was present. Jesus continued, "He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die." When we view the teachings about being raised at "the last day" in this context, it becomes clear that it must mean "the last day of their lives."
Resurrection from Evil or Despair

There are two different ways in which the Lord brings us from death into life. Every person who dies is brought to life in the spiritual world, either in heaven like Lazarus or in hell like the rich man. Our body dies but our spirit lives on in the next life. There's another way in which the Lord brings us from death into life: he brings us out of evil, which is spiritual death, and gives us heavenly life. Many passages in the Bible that speak of resurrection are referring to the second kind of resurrection, which is coming from an evil state into a good one (see Romans 6:4; Ephesians 2:1, 5-6; Colossians 2:12; 3:1). So for example, we read, "He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies" (Romans 8:11). Taken out of context, this might seem like a reference to physical resurrection. But the context shows that is referring to giving us spiritual life while we are still alive on this earth, for the passage says, " If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness…. If you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live" (Romans 8:10, 13). Sometimes a misunderstanding of the Bible arises from confusing these two kinds of resurrection.

For example, Ezekiel had a vision of dry bones that were brought together, had flesh put on them and were brought to life. Some people have taken this as a description of how our bodies will be reassembled at the time of resurrection. But in fact, the dry bones that appeared in that vision were not dead people. Rather, the Lord said to Ezekiel that these bones represented the people of Israel, who felt like "dry bones" because they were in captivity (Ezekiel 37:11). The Lord bringing the bones of out of their graves was a symbol of His promise to bring the people of Israel back from their captivity into their own land. It was not a prophecy of a physical resurrection.

Something similar is meant by Isaiah's prophecy, "Shake yourself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem" (Isaiah 52: 2), and Daniel's words: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2; compare 1 Kings 16:2). Paul says, "Awake, you who sleep, arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light" (Ephesians 5: 14). This does not refer to people who are physically dead and a physical resurrection, but to those who are spiritually dead and their regeneration.
What about the Firstborn from the Dead?

The Bible says that Jesus was the "first born from the dead" (Romans 8:18). Some people have taken this to mean that no one was ever raised from the dead before Jesus was. This would imply that all who died prior to Jesus remained asleep in the ground at least until after His resurrection. But this is a distortion of that teaching. Often being "first" does not mean first in time, but first in importance, as when Jesus speaks of the first commandment (Mark 12:29; Matthew 22:38), and when He says that "the first shall be last and the last shall be first" (Mark 9:35; 10:31, Matthew 19:30; 20:16) Jesus is not only said to be the first born from the dead, but also the first born of every creature (Romans 8:15).

He is said to be first born because he existed from eternity and created all things, and because he is pre-eminent among all that have been raised from the dead (Romans 8: 16-18; compare John 1:1-9). When Jesus was about to be raised from the dead, He prayed, "And now, O Father, glorify Me with Your own self with the glory which I had with You before the world was" (John 17:5). Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58), so there was no need for Abraham to wait in the grave for centuries to be raised to life, and Jesus could be first among the dead even though others had died and were raised before Him.
What about the Natural Bodies Raised by Jesus?

There are many stories of people who were raised from the dead by Jesus and the prophets before him (Luke 7:11-16; 8:41-56; Matthew 9:18-26; Mark 5:22-43; John 11:1-54; 1 Kings 17:17-23; 2 Kings 4:32-37; 13: 21; Acts 9:37-40; 20:9-12). When Jesus worked the miracle of raising someone from the dead, the person's physical body came back to life. Some people have assumed from this that all resurrection will involve the physical body coming back to life. This assumption is unwarranted. When those who died were brought back to life in the physical body, the physical body was never made immortal or incorruptible. All of those people soon left their physical bodies in the grave once more.

Furthermore, in every case those who were brought back to life were resurrected within a few days of having died. We are never given an example of someone being brought back to life after thousands of years of sleep in grave. If Jesus had wanted us to think that resurrection happens after thousands of years in the grave, He could have raised Abraham or David from the dead. Instead, He raised people who had just died, to show that resurrection takes place soon after death, and the life of the soul continues even when the life of the body ends.
What about Jesus' Body?

Jesus' resurrection shows the pattern which ours will follow, yet there must also be a difference. Some have thought that we will rise with our physical bodies because Jesus rose with His. But if leaving behind the physical body makes us different from Christ, staying in the grave for centuries would make our resurrection even less like His. Jesus repeatedly told His disciples that He would rise on the third day (Matthew 16:21; 17:23; 20:19; 27:63; Luke 9:22; 18:33; 24:7; 24:46; Mark 8:31), and Scripture also shows that what is true of Him in this case will also be true of us. "After two days will He revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight" (Hosea 6:2). "Today you will be with Me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). At the same time, Jesus taught that for the rest of us the spirit would rise without the body when He said, "A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have" (Luke 24:39).
The Graves Opened and the Dead Appearing

After Jesus rose from the tomb, the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. (Matthew 27:52-53). This passage is not explicit. Were their physical bodies raised, or their spiritual bodies? How long had they been "sleeping"--centuries, or just a few days? What happened to those saints afterwards? Where are they now? Does the holy city mean the Jerusalem in this world, or the new Jerusalem in heaven (Revelation 21:2; 22:19)? This passage clearly shows that the Lord's resurrection brings resurrection to others, but it does not give us any reason to expect centuries of sleep before our resurrection.
Eternal Life Has Begun

Eternal life is not something that is waiting for us in the distant future. There is no reason to think that we have to wait for a long time, for Jesus tells us that for those who accept the life He gives, the kingdom of heaven is already within them (Luke 17:21), and they have already begun living eternally (John 5:24, 17:2, 1 John 5: 11, 12, 20). That life is not interrupted by death, but rather becomes more abundant and complete.

What the Bible Says about…


19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace be with you." 20 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. 21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." 24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said to him, "We have seen the Lord." So he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe." 26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace to you!" 27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" John 20:19-28


The same disfigurement that was done to Jesus' Body on the Cross was seen in His Resurrection Body.


His Body was resurrected from the dead, as ours will be as well.


JLB
 
Upvote 0
N

n2thelight

Guest
19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace be with you." 20 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. 21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." 24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said to him, "We have seen the Lord." So he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe." 26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace to you!" 27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" John 20:19-28


The same disfigurement that was done to Jesus' Body on the Cross was seen in His Resurrection Body.


His Body was resurrected from the dead, as ours will be as well.


JLB


His body had to be,for as the scripture foretold,His body would not see corruption(decay)...Let's go to Acts

Acts 13:33 "God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that He hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second Psalm, `Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten Thee.' "

Acts 13:34 "And as concerning that He raised Him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, He said on this wise, `I will give you the sure mercies of David.' "

Jesus was raised from the dead by Almighty God,Jesus will not return to that flesh body, or to hell to preach to the dead. But Paul is quoting here from Isaiah 55:3 "Incline your ear, and come unto Me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David."

Acts 13:35 "Wherefore He saith also in another psalm, `Thou shalt not suffer Thine Hoy One to see corruption:' "
This quote is from the sixteenth Psalm. This is referring to Jesus flesh.

Psalm 16:10 "For Thou wilt not leave My soul in hell; Neither wilt Thou suffer Thine Holy One to see corruption."

Never compare Christ transfiguration with flesh man's death, and the decay of the body, for the body of Christ did not decay, but was transfigured. This documentation is for believers, and the non-belivers just don't matter.

Acts 13:36 "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption."

When David died he was laid to rest, and his body decayed just like his father's body.

Acts 13:37 "But He, Whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

Even though David's body say corruption, Jesus Christ's body did not see corruption [decay]. Even though when Jesus arose, many were seen walking around, they were not transfigured, but God allowed their souls to be seen by men, then they were taken to paradise. This was to document that one point, and they were part of that proof that Christ had defeated death.

We are transformed at death.....

Paul taught that we have two bodies....


I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

Paul is now going to tell us what happens and we bury them in the ground. Pay attention so that you will understand and there will be no confusion. So if you believe in the resurrection, than how does it happen? Where does it take place, and with what body does the dead rise?

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

There is a natural body, which is your flesh body, and there is also a spiritual or soul body. The two are different and when the natural body, or flesh body dies the spiritual body is "raised", or in the Greek text "egiro, awakened, become active from its death". You have two bodies, one natural body contains your spiritual body, and that spiritual body is awakened to a new life, when the flesh or natural body dies and releases your soul. Your spirit and your soul are together, for the spirit is your "self", "the intellect of your soul" which houses your spirit within you.

It just can't be made any clearer than Paul has made it here. You have two bodies, the flesh and the spiritual bodies. When the flesh body dies, then the spiritual body is awakened and come alive within itself. It starts to live a life without the baggage of the flesh body confining it to the limits of the flesh.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then [at death] shall the dust [flesh body] return to the earth as it was: and the spirit [spiritual body] shall return [instantly] to God [Father] Who gave it."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
This is written by Solomon to the flesh man that walks under the sun, and when the life of the flesh is over, it has no more knowledge or thought than a stick or rock. It is useless, but the soul that is within it is gone and with the Father.

The dust that the flesh returns to,will never ever come back together to form a body





 
Upvote 0

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟40,528.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
N2, pardon me for this here, but, reading through your assertion above as to resurrections, bodies, angels actually being men, and so on, I could not help contain what arose out of me - that moment in Director, Frank Capras classic film, "Its A Wonderful Life," where a bell on a Chrismas tree rings and that adorable child exclaims, "Look daddy, teacher says that everytime a bell rings its because an angel's just earned his wings!" or words to that effect.

At which point, actor, Jimmy Stewart's "George Baily," that precious little girl's daddy, replies, "That's right! That's right - atta boy, Clarence!"

I couldn't help thinking of that for your assertion's similarity in its human viewpoint.

Still, thanks for sharing your view, as I find I often learn something even when a view is nowhere near in keeping with "as it is written."

Again, thanks for the challenge...
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Danoh

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
3,064
310
✟40,528.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0

JohnRabbit

just trying to understand
Supporter
Feb 12, 2009
4,383
320
i am in alabama
✟55,288.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
@ JohnRabbit

Would I be correct in saying you believe in soul sleep?


no such thing as soul sleep.

man does not have a soul, man is a living soul.

death is simply the absence of life!

you're either alive or you're dead!




Quick question before I do though....Where are Moses and Elijah?


moses and elijah are dead.

i can elaborate later, but that's the short of it.

like everyone else that's ever died, they don't exist anymore, save the Christ!

because the life of all flesh is in the blood - i simply believe God when He says that.

 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
N

n2thelight

Guest
no such thing as soul sleep.

man does not have a soul, man is a living soul.

death is simply the absence of life!

you're either alive or you're dead!






moses and elijah are dead.

i can elaborate later, but that's the short of it.

like everyone else that's ever died, they don't exist anymore, save the Christ!

because the life of all flesh is in the blood - i simply believe God when He says that.

Sooooooooo,Christ was talking to dead people on the Mount?
 
Upvote 0