2300 days

PhillipLaSpino · Jul 22, 2014

Dan.8:13-14, "I have read most all the commentaries concerning the following verses and few have little to say, and the others make little sense after I considered the context in which they are written. What are your thoughts concerning the meaning of the 2300 days?

"I (Daniel) heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, unto two thousand and three hundred days; than shall the sanctuary be cleansed."

Phil LaSpino

Interplanner · Jul 22, 2014

It is the 3.5 years of the intense conflict of the Jewish War from 66-70. It was the period Jesus warned would change Israel forever. It was lead by a figure who was very evil yet supposed himself to be very close to God.

PhillipLaSpino · Jul 22, 2014

Interplanner how does 3 1/2 year work out to be 2300 days? What formula are you using? The text and context seem to be speaking of the period after Alexander died (great horn broken) and his four General's (4 notable horns) took control; than from one of the four (his generals) came forth a little horn; this in no way can mean Rome.

The Roman Empire was still several hundred years in the future.

Phil LaSpino

Steve Petersen · Jul 22, 2014

IIRC, the original text of Daniel in Hebrew or Aramaic says 2300 'evenings and mornings.'

The Torah commanded that sacrifice of the tamid take place twice a day, at the morning and at the evening. If this verse is referring to the morning and evening sacrfices you are actually dealing with half as many real days. That would be 1150 days or just over 3 years. This corresponds almost perfectly with the duration of the Maccabean Revolt against Antiochus Epiphanes from 170 to 167 BC.

Interplanner · Jul 22, 2014

PHil,
you're right. I thought it was referring to half of a Danielic week, but it's referring to a whole. Half would be 1290 as in other verses, which is the 3.5 years.

PhillipLaSpino · Jul 22, 2014

I have to go out of town now and will be back tomorrow afternoon, but let me leave you with this: can the word days in this verse in any way or shape be refering to years, just a curious question?

Phil LaSpino

keras · Jul 22, 2014

Steve Petersen said:
IIRC, the original text of Daniel in Hebrew or Aramaic says 2300 'evenings and mornings.'

The Torah commanded that sacrifice of the tamid take place twice a day, at the morning and at the evening. If this verse is referring to the morning and evening sacrfices you are actually dealing with half as many real days. That would be 1150 days or just over 3 years. This corresponds almost perfectly with the duration of the Maccabean Revolt against Antiochus Epiphanes from 170 to 167 BC.

Steve, you are correct.
In the Apocrypha book of 1 Maccabees 1:30-54 Antiochus made a surprise attack on Jerusalem and captured it. Then 45 days later, on Kislev 15, 167 BCE, an abomination was set up on the altar of the Temple.
Then after the battle of Akrabattene in 164 BCE:
1 Maccabees 4:52-53 On Kislev 25, 164 BCE , sacrifice was again offered and the Temple re-dedicated.
This time period is exactly 1150 days, so the prophecy of Daniel 8:8-14 was completely fulfilled then.
In no way does 2300 constitute years or have anything to do with the end times.

Interplanner · Jul 22, 2014

But the 'rebellion that desolates' and the 'abomination that desolates' are the same and conclude in the 490 years.

Dave Watchman · Jul 22, 2014

PhillipLaSpino said:
I have to go out of town now and will be back tomorrow afternoon, but let me leave you with this: can the word days in this verse in any way or shape be refering to years, just a curious question?

Phil LaSpino

Bingo, we have a winner.

This is a big one to figure out. William Miller got the math right but the event wrong, poor guy. There is a guy on youtube that has it all figured out but I can't give you the link yet because I haven't made 50 posts. This is the longest prophetic time period in the entire Bible and is connected to the 70 weeks of Daniel 9. The 70 weeks of Daniel 9 are "chathak" <02852>" or cut off from the start of the larger 2300 year prophetic time period. Basically, it's saying that after 1844 The Antichrist will appear. It would have been fun if Gabriel would have narrowed it down a little more so we could all make travel plans around the event.

2300 evenings and mornings has to be translated into 2300 years because the Jubilee calendar is in operation. The "evenings and mornings" language is meant to draw attention to the daily service in the Temple. The 2300 years began in 457BC, the same starting time as the 70 weeks of Daniel 9, and continued all the way to the spring of 1844 when the Temple was cleansed. We are talking about The True Tent, not a temple made with human hands. In the spring of 1844 Jesus opened The Books and began judging the dead. This is "the cleansing of The Temple".

There is a theory that the judging of the dead or cleansing of The Temple here is the third seal.

"And its rider had a pair of scales in his hand".

Did you ever see the statue of Lady justice in front of supreme court building?
She also has a pair of scales in her hand, the scales of justice.

"you have been weighed in the balances and found wanting" (Daniel 5)

A quart of wheat for (a denarius), and three quarts of barley for a (denarius), and do not harm the oil and wine!

Remember "the wages of sin is death".

The following errors occurred with your submission:

To be able to post links or images your post count must be 50 or greater. You currently have 47 posts.

Please remove links from your message, then you will be able to submit your post.
(Mene, Mene, Tekel, and Parsin)

Codger · Jul 22, 2014

Daniel 8:9-14 (NIV2011)
9 Out of one of them came another horn, (Antiochus Epiphanes) which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land.

10 It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. (symbolic language)

11 It set itself up to be as great as the commander of the army of the LORD; (captured the city of Jerusalem) it took away the daily sacrifice from the LORD, and his sanctuary was thrown down.

12 Because of rebellion, the LORD’s people and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the LORD’s people?”

14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then (after this) the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”

Daniel was prophesying the coming of Antiochus Epiphanes in the second century BC. He was the one who desecrated the sanctuary and offered a pig on the alter of Zeus that he had taken into the Temple.This was the Abomination that causes Desolation.

How long would it take for the vision to be fulfilled? 2,300 evenings and mornings (two tamid lambs were sacrificed each day as a minimum requirement – one in AM and one in the PM) So we see that the number of sacrifices is 2,300 (two per day) or divided by 2 equals 1,150 days. So Antiochus would be in control of the city and the temple for 1,150 days.

After the 1,150 days the sanctuary would be cleansed. Josephus tells us that this lasted for a total of 3 ½ years. So it took six months to build a new alter, remove stones from the walls and floors, remove the ground underneath – it was not just a matter of hosing down the sanctuary with a bottle of Lysol and a garden hose. The sanctuary was completely replaced.

Using the Greek calendar – which was used in the time of Antiochus and assuming that the years of 146 and 148 were intercalary years, we can take the Maccabean dates of 9-15-145 to 9-25-148 and determine that the time interval is three years and ten days. A lot of people use 360 days as a prophetic year. And so we have...

3 x 360 equals ***********************1080 days
2 x 30 (2 intercalary months)*************60 days
From 15th to 25th equals ****************10 days
___________________________________________
Total *******************************1,150 days

So we see that this is not 2,300 days like some suppose (exclude Steve & keras) - the text says 2,300 mornings and evenings which is a we have seen to be 1,150 days.

Dave Watchman · Jul 22, 2014

Codger said:
Daniel 8:9-14 (NIV2011)
9 Out of one of them came another horn, (Antiochus Epiphanes)

Hi Codger

I heard the Antiochus Epiphanes story before and it is a good one. The only problem is that no mortal man could ever meet the specifications of the horn power in Daniel 8.

And in the latter time of their kingdom,
When the transgressors have reached their fullness,
A king shall arise,
Having fierce features,
Who understands sinister schemes.
24 His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power;
He shall destroy fearfully,
And shall prosper and thrive;
He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.

25 Through his cunning
He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;[c]
And he shall exalt himself in his heart.
He shall destroy many in their prosperity.
He shall even rise against the Prince of princes;
But he shall be broken without human means.[d]

26 And the vision of the evenings and mornings
Which was told is true;
Therefore seal up the vision,
For it refers to many days in the future.

I'm sorry, this is not the description of any mortal man.

It would be fun to think that all the bad Bible stuff is over with. Then I could be a happy go lucky DofJ guy. I'm afraid however that we are living in an intermission between two great periods of Christian persecution. When the next one begins, I imagine the bad guys will be very good at what they do.

Codger · Jul 22, 2014

Futurists always deny history - you can count on it - always.

Douggg · Jul 22, 2014

PhillipLaSpino said:
Dan.8:13-14, "I have read most all the commentaries concerning the following verses and few have little to say, and the others make little sense after I considered the context in which they are written. What are your thoughts concerning the meaning of the 2300 days?

"I (Daniel) heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, unto two thousand and three hundred days; than shall the sanctuary be cleansed."

Phil LaSpino

Day 2520 of the seven years minus 2300 days = the animal sacrifices will start up again on day 220. Then in the middle of the seven years, the Antichrist will stop the sacrifices, go in the temple claim to be God, then the AOD setup in the temple - causing desolation by way of transgression until Jesus returns on day 2520.

keras · Jul 23, 2014

Dave W and Codger, don't you see we are being told a story in Daniel 8? Its a sequence of events, now fulfilled up to verse 22, then Daniel clearly states in verses 23-25:In the last days..... This is a prophecy about the Anti-Christ to come as Paul tells us in 2 Thess. 2:3-4 and in Revelation, where he is referred to as the 'beast'.

Interplanner · Jul 23, 2014

When were Daniels' last days? Not ours, Daniels? why should we open up a 2600 year old text and go "Hey, there's me!" Same with the Thess material. What are your reasons for saying it is about us?

Did you see the thread-in-jest "The Third Thess Letter"?

Douggg · Jul 23, 2014

Interplanner said:
When were Daniels' last days? Not ours, Daniels? why should we open up a 2600 year old text and go "Hey, there's me!" Same with the Thess material. What are your reasons for saying it is about us?

Did you see the thread-in-jest "The Third Thess Letter"?

Daniel lived during the Babylonian captivity. Both the Persian and Greek empires came long after him, which those are also in the prophecies. So it is not Daniel's lifetime.

The last days were characterized in Daniel 12, as the increase in transportation and knowledge.

PhillipLaSpino · Jul 23, 2014

Our answer needs to remain within the context of the verse. The context in Dan.8 concerns the little horn that comes from one of the 4 horns. This whole period of time concerns the Greeks and the very early history of the Roman's. But the main theme as far as I can see, is the Greek period; Alexander destroys the Medes and Persians. Alexander dies; his four generals take over and from one of the generals comes this other horn that grew great.

Ptolemaeus (Called the savior) ------ Aridaeus ----- Perdiccas (called the supreme general (king) ---- Selecus (called theos = God)

Selencus 1 surnamed Nicator, the first in this line, was the son of Antiochus a distinguished officer in the service of Philip of Macedon (Alexanders father) and was born about 358 Died 280 B.C.

Antiochus 4th Epiphanes. Born 215, 65 years after Selencus died. Antiochus was King of the Hellenistic Syrian kingdom from 175 until 164 B.C. He was an able and popular ruler best known for his encouragement of Greek influences, during the course of which he inadvertently promoted the creation of the important independent Jewish state of the Maccabees, or Hasmoneans.

He served as a hostage in Rome for 14 years after his fathers defeat (190189) by the Romans. On his release he ousted the usurper Heliodorus and ascended the Syrian throne. He occupied almost all of Egypt in 169 and again in 168, but the Romans forced him to evacuate the kingdom.

Antiochus then conquered the Jewish stronghold of Jerusalem and attempted to Hellenize the city. In 166, however, Judas Maccabeus raised the Jewish rebellion that eventually led to the formation of an independent Jewish state.

I have read most all the commentaries on this subject, and they make no sense at all to me. Some said they had no idea as to the meaning and gave no commentary. It may be time now to crack this wide open and only open minded people can; that is if it has been kept a mystery by god up to this time??????? or NOT!

I have some of my own ideas, but still investigating the details.

Phil LaSpino

tranquil · Jul 23, 2014

keras said:
Dave W and Codger, don't you see we are being told a story in Daniel 8? Its a sequence of events, now fulfilled up to verse 22, then Daniel clearly states in verses 23-25:In the last days..... This is a prophecy about the Anti-Christ to come as Paul tells us in 2 Thess. 2:3-4 and in Revelation, where he is referred to as the 'beast'.

If "Alexander the Great" is the notable horn, then that would start the 2300 days (as in, days as years). Alexander (the Goat) defeated the (Ram) Persians and King Darius in 333 BC 333 BC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , add 2300 days/ years to get 1967 AD, Jerusalem retaken by Israel.

And that means the little horn of Daniel 8 has already started rising.

keras · Jul 23, 2014

Interplanner said:
When were Daniels' last days? Not ours, Daniels? why should we open up a 2600 year old text and go "Hey, there's me!" Same with the Thess material. What are your reasons for saying it is about us?

Did you see the thread-in-jest "The Third Thess Letter"?

Daniel 12:4 & 9-10 But you Daniel, keep these words secret and seal the book until the time of the end....many will try to gain this knowledge, only a few wise leaders will understand.
Daniel then goes on to tell about another, end time, desecration of the Temple. He was given several visions of what will happen, from his day until the end of the age, when he will arise to his destiny.

Although people for the last nearly 2000 years have worried that these things may refer to them, we can now see from hindsight and from many indications, plus time periods such as Ezekiel 4:4-6 and Luke 13:32, that the end of the age is almost upon us. Believe it and take heed or 'remain in the dark'.

I don't respond to provocation, and consider your 'thread in jest' as foolish and inappropriate.

PhillipLaSpino · Jul 23, 2014

I know it's difficult to set aside what you understand on this subject, but try. The ram having 2 horns = Medes and Persians; the goat having a great horn = Alexander, it was broken (he died.) Four horns = Alexander's four generals they coming to power after Alexander died.

Out of one of these generals came a little horn, which waxed (grew) exceeding great." To grow is a process and requires years for a person to come into prominence and power.

Of the four generals Selencus 1 became the most powerful of Alexander's generals. He obtained the largest share in the conquered kingdom, a great part of Asia Minor and the whole of Syria. Toward the close of his reign, a war broke out with Demetrius his father in law and afterwards Lysimachus king of Thrace and wared in other parts of Asia Minor; after the wars terminated, and in the defeat and death of Selencus's opponents, he aquired the rest of Asia Minor in 281 B.C., and died in 280 B.C.

He is the father of the family of Antiochus and of Antiochus Epiphanes. These generations of Antiochus came from the loins of Selencus. This follows exactly the sequence found in Dan.8.

If you keep arguing about the same old stuff that makes no sense, a subject that has been beaten to death, I will depart from any further discussions. I need some positive input!

Phil LaSpino

2300 days

Achieve; don’t plunder!

Newbie

Achieve; don’t plunder!

Senior Veteran

Newbie

Achieve; don’t plunder!

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Achieve; don’t plunder!

Newbie

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Achieve; don’t plunder!

Similar threads