Does the RCC have the Menorah of Herod's Temple?

LittleLambofJesus

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POPE ASKED TO RETURN TEMPLE MENORAH

ISRAEL'S MINISTER OF RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS, Shimon Shetreet, has asked Pope John Paul II to help him locate Israel's ancient Menorah - the seven golden candlesticks (as the Bible calls it). Shetreet met with the Roman Catholic Pontiff in late January to ask the Pope's assistance. The news article about this historic request appeared in the January 27, 1996 Jerusalem Post.
Shetreet claimed that recent research at the University of Florence indicated the Menorah may still be among the treasures in the Vatican's underground vaults. He said, "I don't say it's there for sure, but I asked the pope to help in the search as a goodwill gesture in recognition of the improved relations between Catholics and Jews."
He noted that the pope plans to visit Jerusalem in 1997 on a religious pilgrimage to encourage the peace process.

Is the golden Menorah preserved in an underground catacomb? I once met an exCatholic priest that told me he saw several Temple relics in a vault four stories under the West Wing of the Vatican. The West Wing houses a dormitory for priests from the United States.

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah !.........................

Meanwhile the Temple continued burning, until at length, vast as was its size, the flames completely enveloped the, whole building ; which, from the extent of the conflagration, impressed the distant spectator with an idea that the whole city was now on fire.
The tumult and disorder which ensued upon this event, it is impossible (says Josephus) for language to describe.

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins ;
and the Roman army as in triumph on the event, came and reared their ensigns against a fragment of the eastern gate, and, with sacrifices of thanksgiving, proclaimed the imperial majesty of Titus, with every possible demonstration of joy. .......................
Menorah.jpg
THE ARCH OF TITUS, built in Rome to honor the conqueror of the Jews, shows a stone carving of the Menorah and other Temple items carried by Jewish slaves in a parade in downtown Rome following the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

 
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GratiaCorpusChristi

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Knowing the Romans, they probably melted it down and used the gold for other things. The Romans were very efficient at recycling things. For example, frequently they would recycle stones and other building materials from disused buildings for other construction projects. Hence, the current state of the Coliseum in Rome.

Exactly.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Knowing the Romans, they probably melted it down and used the gold for other things. The Romans were very efficient at recycling things.
For example, frequently they would recycle stones and other building materials from disused buildings for other construction projects. Hence, the current state of the Coliseum in Rome.
That is true. According to Josephus's account of the melted gold from the Temple, the Romans dug up the stones to get at the gold.
I didn't see anything mentioned about the Ark of the Covenant tho...


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
 
The magnificent Temple that Herod had built was completely destroyed as the fires raged inside and out. These fires were so hot that the gold fittings, and the gold gilding inside and on it's outside walls melted and ran into the cracks between and in the stones.

During the pillaging of the Temple these stones were broken up to get at the gold. Therefore, fulfilling Jesus' prophecy that no stone would be left on another—the destruction was total, just as Jesus foretold.

James 5:3
The gold of ye and the silver corrodes and the venom of them into a testimony to ye shall be, and it shall be eating/fagetai <5315> (5695) the fleshes of ye as fire.
Ye hoard in Last Days! [Ezekiel 7:19/Zeph 1:18/Revelation 18:12]

Reve 18:12
cargo of gold and of silver and of stone, precious and of *pearl and of *cambric and of purple and of silk and of scarlet and every wood citron and every instrument of ivory and every instrument out of wood most-precious and of copper and of iron and of marble,


.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Knowing the Romans, they probably melted it down and used the gold for other things. The Romans were very efficient at recycling things. For example, frequently they would recycle stones and other building materials from disused buildings for other construction projects. Hence, the current state of the Coliseum in Rome.
That is rather likely.
Yep.
perhaps we should organise a working bee and all go round to help them tidy up.
I guess some humour is okay, even if it is at the expense of the pope, eh? ;)
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Knowing the Romans, they probably melted it down and used the gold for other things. The Romans were very efficient at recycling things. For example, frequently they would recycle stones and other building materials from disused buildings for other construction projects. Hence, the current state of the Coliseum in Rome.
Most likely to fund the building of the coloseum since the captives were forced to build it.

An estimated 100,000 prisoners were bought back to Rome as slaves after the Jewish War.
Building the Colosseum
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by bbbbbbb
Knowing the Romans, they probably melted it down and used the gold for other things. The Romans were very efficient at recycling things. For example, frequently they would recycle stones and other building materials from disused buildings for other construction projects. Hence, the current state of the Coliseum in Rome.
Most likely to fund the building of the coloseum since the captives were forced to build it.
An estimated 100,000 prisoners were bought back to Rome as slaves after the Jewish War.
Building the Colosseum
That is pretty close to the number Josephus said:


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made. Not less than two thousand laid violent hands upon themselves.
Of the captives the whole was about ninety seven thousand.....

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Reve 11:2/13:10]

Reve 13:10
If any to-captivity, into captivity is going away. If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.
[Luke 21:24]



.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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<snip>
I guess some humour is okay, even if it is at the expense of the pope, eh? ;)

I think he'd join us in a belly laugh.


Since we are created in God's image, and we have humor, so must God; and I think He too would laugh!

It may be part of the secret Jesuit treasure stores in Salamanca spain ;)

Within the temple of dooms treasury :p

Better tell Dan Brown, I smell a movie.:D:D
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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This is another interesting scenario:

MenorahoftheTemple
Menorah of the Temple
Did Titus Carry Away a Fake Menorah
Exodus 25:31 NKJV

31 You shall also make a lampstand [Hebrew: MenoRAH] of pure gold; the lampstand shall be of hammered work. Its shaft, its branches, its bowls, its ornamental knobs, and flowers shall be of one piece.

The verses that follow give the minutest of details as to how his menorah is to be fashioned. Verse 40 says the lamps are to be made &#8220;after the pattern for them, which was shown to you on the mountain.&#8221; (NAS) The description of the seven branches of the menorah and its decorations are very thorough. One detail is that this menorah is to be fashioned out of one piece of gold.

But, in the Bible, there is no mention as to the height of the menorah. Neither is there any mention of the base, its dimensions or design. But verse 39 does tell us that it is to weigh one talent of pure gold. That is 93 pounds of gold. The Jewish Talmud has further instruction, and, according to this document, the menorah is to be 18 hand widths tall, which is considered the height of an average man. Before continuing, notice the shape of the base. It is two-tiered and hexagonal in shape.



Well, this arch has some information that has been used to help identify the shape of the Menorah&#8217;s base. On the inside of the arch, you will see several bas-reliefs. One of them shows the Romans carrying away some of the Temple instruments, including the Menorah. Here is a closer look. It shows a base having two levels, each being hexagonal in shape. And that is the design used in the Menorah now standing in Jerusalem. It was believed that the depiction on the Arch of Titus was the oldest and most accurate. The question now being raised &#8211; is the Titus depiction showing the proper base for the menorah? We may never know for sure, but we do have some clues.

When I took you to Capernaum on the north Galilee shores, I showed you a number of pictures taken of the well-preserved synagogue there. I didn&#8217;t show you this picture. Notice the bas-relief of the menorah here. It shows a base having 3 legs.

Two thoughts need to be kept in focus.

1. This synagogue was not built until the 3rd or 4th century, therefore it is later than the Arch of Titus.
2. But it is Jewish, not Roman, therefore maybe more original.

But, there is more. In Jerusalem a couple of years ago, while excavating for a house in the Jewish Quarter, workmen uncovered the ancient home of a priestly family. On a stone tablet in this home is a carving of the Menorah, with the instructions for the order of lighting the flames. The menorah in this carving is depicted as having a triangular base, which appears to be supported by 3 legs.

This all begs the question, which is certainly of a speculative nature, but still begs to be asked: Was the menorah carried off by the Romans, the Great Menorah of the Temple, or was it a fake designed by the Jews to preserve the original which had been hidden?

A few years ago, we were on one of our tours of the Holy Land in Israel. I had shared with Dr. Fuiten that I was wondering if the menorah taken by Titus was a fake. I mentioned to him that I was starting to think the Temple Menorah may have had a tripod base. That day we were going through the Davidson Center, near the southwest corner of the Temple Mount. Dr. Fuiten was ahead a me around a corner in the hallway. He comes back to me and brings me ahead to see a large depiction of the Temple Menorah. It had a tripod base.
 
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That is pretty close to the number Josephus said:


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made. Not less than two thousand laid violent hands upon themselves.
Of the captives the whole was about ninety seven thousand.....

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Reve 11:2/13:10]

Reve 13:10
If any to-captivity, into captivity is going away. If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.
[Luke 21:24]



.

That would be a grizzly history indeed if they used the gold from the manorrah and got the captives to build the coloseum that the christians were slaughtered in :eek:
 
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