well, what i believe is that being immersed into christ, is the same action as becoming saved. it is what makes you saved. christ coming into you, you coming into christ, it is same thing as the happening of salvation.
i dont think its write to say one must be immersed BEFORE salvation, but it is the point at which your saved.
like christ living in you is what saves you.
yet christ doesnt come into you before your saved.
being saved and having him in you are speaking of the same thing, when one happens, the other is happening also.
im trying to make it simple.
you being immersed into christ, and christ coming into you, are not seperate happenings either, christ said he was in them, and they were in him.
uhmm if you can make these all seperate happenings this is how id say they go,
Grace, Faith, Repentence, Confessing Jesus as Lord, immersion into christ, Saved/sins removed.
HS baptism.
first off when i speak of the holyspirit baptism, i am not speaking of the time when the holyspirit first enters a persons life. but the time when they are BAPTISED in the holyspirit, such as the happenings on the day of pentecost. one can have the holyspirit living in them and be saved, yet not be baptised in the holyspirit nor be filled with the holyspirit either.
HS baptism could be placed anywhere in the order of those things named, except before salvation.
immersion in water can be placed anywhere on that list before or after salvation, but is not effective untill after salvation in what it is meant for.
MATT 28.19
this is water baptism, it is something the disciples were told to do.
this is the only baptism that a man can do with his hands, but no man can save you (baptise you into Chrsit) or baptise you in the Spirit, God does those. becuase those are not physical and cannot be done with fleshly hands.
1ST PETER 3.21
this is water baptism, as v20 makes clear.
also becuase this not does put away the filth of the flesh, as baptism into Christ does. becuase anyone who is IN Christ, is a NEW creature 2 cor 5.17.
to be baptised in Christ is to be a new creature. but to be baptised in water does not change you.
ACTS 2.38
this is water baptism also.
becuase it is an act that is done by you in the name of the Lord Jesus, you do not baptise yourself into Christ in the name of Christ, God does this for you, its not something you can do with your hands as water baptism is.
ACTS 22.16
this water baptism also.
being buried with him in baptism is not talking about water baptism. but it is talking about being baptised into Christ.
romans 6.3
know ye not, that so many of us as were baptised INTO JESUS CHRIST, were baptised into his death.
(speaking of the happening you quoted from col. 2.12,13)
this being buried and raised with him, happens at the point of salvation by faith, when a person is immersed by God into Christ.
the moment we call on him by faith, we are saved.
and at that moment we are immersed by God into Christ.
(simply speaking of you now being in him, the union of you and him that saves you by his power)
at the moment we are immersed into Christ, the significance of "being buried and raised with him" takes place.
simply saying the benefits of Christs life, death and ressurection take place the moment your saved by faith, or the moment your immersed into Christ. but this can happen without water baptism, as it surely did for cornelius.
i agree that calling on the name of the lord isnt simply vocal.
but the fact that a person is able to call upon him with disobedience in their life and not be heard, is no evidence to say a person cant be saved the moment they call on him.
but it is clear, any person, anywhere, can call upon God and be saved, even if that man is alone in the desert miles from water and with no man to baptise him and cannot be baptised.
it would not be true anyman could call upon him and be saved, if he had to be baptised, becuase baptism isnt always possible.
no, i do not agree that calling upon the name of the lord involves baptism, becuase they are spoken as 2 diffrent actions and one can do either without the other.
yet they were told to be baptised also.
acts 2.37,38
i know peter told them to repent and be baptised for remission of sins and they would receive the gift of the holyspirit.
but i think the point he was making was that they had to be baptised in the name of Jesus, becuase doing this was an outward sighn of them throwing off judaism.
and i understand you could take that to mean the bible teaches that one must be baptised also before hes really saved.
but that would mean if a person is not in a place to be baptised, then no matter how contrite his heart is, he cant be saved and hes doomed and no matter how mighty and loving God is, he cannot help this man whos come to him. but the bible says his hand is not shortened that it cant save, and hell by no means cast out anyone who comes to him. (with the right heart that is, but a person can have the right heart without and before baptism)
i simply dont accept that.
i believe it simply means they were commanded to be baptised, but it was the repenting that truely saved them. the baptism was an outward display and confession of what was already true on the inside.
ok, now i see your aregument about cornelius,
i disagree with some of your fundamental basics of this story.
ok, first ill point out that believing in God, and fearing God do not save you. that is no reason to believe they were already saved.
becuase many have believed in the existence of God, and even had a fear of God, and even pray to God, yet not be saved, becuase the message of the cross, and faith in it, and obedience to it, is what saves us, you can believe in God, and fear him, and pray yet not know the message of the cross or be in union with it.
so what the cornelius did is no evidence to say he was already saved.
and it is clear that they were not already saved, becuase the angel spoke and told them were would soon learn how to be.
if there had been any other purpose, the angel could have said so but did not and he even gave a false meaning of why paul would come.
next,
i do not agree that the thing he could not withstand was simply water baptism of cornelius, but rather simply the working of God in gentiles. so he did baptise them.
i greatly disagree, i do not believe it is possible to have the holyspirit come upon you and even manifest the gifts of the spirit, without you ever being saved. (the gift of speaking in tongues for example 
in 1 cor 12 it says these gifts of the holyspirit are given to us by God v4 and they are an outworking of the God who is working IN us v6. theres no way they worked in the power of God and yet not have God in them. this means your saved. how can God be dwelling in you, and you not be Gods?
speaking in tongues, is one of the gifts of the spirit.
what the gifts of the spirit are, are gifts that make up the working of the body of Christ. people who are in the body of Christ work in these gifts, and through this the body of Christ works.
12.12
you dont work in these gifts if your not in the body of Christ, meaning your saved. becuase paul said gifts of the spirit could be called the diffrent members of the body of Christ, so how can a person who isnt in the body of Christ work in them?
and if your in the body of Christ your saved.
no, i dont agree that an unbeliever can be filled with the holyghost.
and i dont agree that John in the womb being filled with the holyghost is proof that it one can be.
it does aww me that one could be filled in the womb, and i do respect your reasoning and understand why you would think that.
but the fact that the gifts are given to the church and body of Christ, are reason enough for me that one can be saved in the womb and becuase john was filled with the holyspirit.
i know this will sound far out, and thats ok if you think so.
ill try to keep this simple, it is not impossible for God to know a person in the womb, and it is not impossible for a person still in the womb to have alteast some amount of intellect. the child comes out of the womb knowing certain things, he knows pain, he knows diffrent stimulations, he is not completely void of knowledge and intellect, the brain is working becuase the child is alive.
im simply saying it isnt unreasonable to say a child even in the womb can have some sort of intellect and "know" certain things.
it would not be impossible for an allpowerful, allwise God to make himself known unto a child in the womb, becuase that child can know things even if they may be the most base of things.
i dont see it as unreasonable for a child in the womb to realise God and have some sort of action that allows him to get in touch with God on atleast some level.
ok, about your denton commentary.
pretty much everything said about the baptism of Jesus, and its motive was said with the assumption that it was for a diffrent reason than why we get baptised. i see no proof of this.
and the theory of why John tried to forbid him isnt proven to me either.
i do not agree that those could have been the only reasons why John forbade him.
it could have been because John felt so inferior to this man.
not because Jesus did not need it for some of the same reasons we need it.
since i dont agree that baptism takes away sin and dont see proof of it in scripture, i dont agree that the purpose of baptism for us is to simply cause remission of sins.
this is why i dont agree that John forbade him souly becuase Jesus had no sin. so i dont agree that why we get baptised and why Jesus got baptised are extremely diffrent points. so i dont agree or see any reason to believe we get baptised to get saved.
it still goes back to me seeing no proof of it in scripture.
i do read of places where the commandments to be baptised, and to repent and call on God and be saved were placed together.
but i believe the baptism is simply the outward showing of what has already happened becuase of the repenting and faith.
becuase of times that it appears to me that one was saved, before baptism.
and i see no real evidence that proves one could not be saved and still be filled with the holyghost, which is a theory you raised to say the things happening before baptism are no proof one was already saved before baptism.
becuase the gifts of the spirit are only actions by the body of Christ. no sinner is in the body of Christ, i dont think you could say one could be filled with the holyghost and work in the gifts of the spirit and not be saved.
well,
to show you i am not be hostile or prejudice toward your belief.
i salute you in God, you have surely done your research and i honor you for that, if i did not have a few reasons of my own, i would most likely say you are in the truth and have proved me wrong. it is an honor to discuss this with you.
Lee myers.