A question for JWs about the use of "Jehovah" in Colossians

Bongoon

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I understand. But pre-Christian Jews prayed to the Word of the Lord, who sat on a throne. And then he became flesh in the form of Jesus of Nazareth.

Since when? They feared and called upon his name, As in Abraham, leaning on his staff and worshipping his name.
 
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Bongoon

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THROUGHOUT the centuries, many in Christendom have worshiped Jesus Christ as if he were Almighty God.

Jesus himself, however, directed attention and worship only to Jehovah God.

For example, when prodded to do an act of worship to the Devil, Jesus said: “It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Matthew 4:10)

Later Jesus instructed his disciples: “Do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One.”—Matthew 23:9.


To a Samaritan woman, Jesus described the type of worship that individuals must give to God.


Their worship must be based on spirit and truth.

Indeed, “the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him.” (John 4:23, 24)

Yes, reverent adoration should be expressed only to God.

To render worship to anyone or anything else would be a form of idolatry, which is condemned in both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures.—Exodus 20:4, 5; Galatians 5:19, 20.

(Philippians 2:10, 11) 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Who Glory and worship is Jesus directing us to?


Dunno what the last line means but are you a JW?>
 
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ChetSinger

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Since when? They feared and called upon his name, As in Abraham, leaning on his staff and worshipping his name.
See the quote from Deuteronomy in Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, a Jewish Aramaic study bible.

This is related to the surprising discovery I learned of a few years ago: that the concept of a Jewish godhead was commonplace in Jesus' time, and was not considered unorthodox. Wild stuff, but well-documented and researched: Two Powers in Heaven.

The upshot is that when John wrote "and the Word became flesh and lived among us", any Jew of the time would've instantly realized that John was claiming that Jesus was an appearance of YHWH in the flesh.

I sometimes think that if Charles Taze Russell had been familiar with this material, the Jehovah's Witnesses might still be orthodox.
 
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See the quote from Deuteronomy in Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, a Jewish Aramaic study bible.

This is related to the surprising discovery I learned of a few years ago: that the concept of a Jewish godhead was commonplace in Jesus' time, and was not considered unorthodox. Wild stuff, but well-documented and researched: Two Powers in Heaven.

The upshot is that when John wrote "and the Word became flesh and lived among us", any Jew of the time would've instantly realized that John was claiming that Jesus was an appearance of YHWH in the flesh.

I sometimes think that if Charles Taze Russell had been familiar with this material, the Jehovah's Witnesses might still be orthodox.

I can see that Bible prophesy is not your strong point.

(Matthew 24:14) 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

I notice you haven't mention the Kingdom once, are you preaching it?
 
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Bongoon

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I can see that Bible prophesy is not your strong point.

(Matthew 24:14) 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

I notice you haven't mention the Kingdom once.

No he didn't, a common mainc error. He is the God of Israel, And the KIngdom belongs to the children of the covenant. Look ye in Genesis, And onwards, there lies the good news of the Kingdom. Not in John, or Revelations, but in the covenant the Lord has made with Israel.
 
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No he didn't, a common mainc error. He is the God of Israel, And the KIngdom belongs to the children of the covenant. Look ye in Genesis, And onwards, there lies the good news of the Kingdom. Not in John, or Revelations, but in the covenant the Lord has made with Israel.

Yes Spiritual Israel not literal Israel

With the exception of a small remnant, the nation of natural Israel rejected Jesus Christ as the Mediator of the new covenant.

Thus “the house of Israel” with which God made the foretold new covenant proved to be a spiritual Israel, “the Israel of God.” (Galatians 6:16)

That spiritual Israel was brought to birth on the day of Pentecost, 33 C.E. Being spiritual, it could take into its citizenship believing non-Jews, or Gentiles. (Acts 15:14) Peter addressed it as “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession.”
 
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Bongoon

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Yes Spiritual Israel not literal Israel

With the exception of a small remnant, the nation of natural Israel rejected Jesus Christ as the Mediator of the new covenant.

Thus “the house of Israel” with which God made the foretold new covenant proved to be a spiritual Israel, “the Israel of God.” (Galatians 6:16)

That spiritual Israel was brought to birth on the day of Pentecost, 33 C.E. Being spiritual, it could take into its citizenship believing non-Jews, or Gentiles. (Acts 15:14) Peter addressed it as “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession.”

Yet those prophesying were of Israel. A peculiar treasure unto the Lord. Make no mistake. He is the God of Israel. And Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel.
The Law has instructions on what peoples are allowed into the sanctuary, and
Moavites aren't there.
 
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Yet those prophesying were of Israel. A peculiar treasure unto the Lord. Make no mistake. He is the God of Israel. And Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel.
The Law has instructions on what peoples are allowed into the sanctuary, and
Moavites aren't there.

Most of the Jews did not want to know, they even put God's son Jesus to death, that is why Jesus said in advance of that happening.

(Matthew 23:37-39) 37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you. 39 For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’”

That is why we see the destruction of the whole Jewish system back in 70 C.E. what do think this really meant with regards to Israel that you speak about.
 
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Clearly

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Spiritandtruth2 said “For example, when prodded to do an act of worship to the Devil, Jesus said: “It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Matthew 4:10)” Post # 293

I did not have much interest in entering this discussion but wanted to offer a specific point of correction –
No Greek NT manscripts have the quote Spiritandtruth2 is offering.

Not one use the term “It is Jehovah your God you must worship…”.

Instead, all known significant texts in critical texts read “Κυριον τον θεον...” (i.e. “The Lord God” or “Lord, the God” ) which Jesus says one must worship (Codex Bezae / D leaves out the word "God"). There is no “Jehovah” in this sentence in any variants.


Clear


P.S. If anyone IS aware of ANY authentic greek manuscript which reads “Jehovah” in this verse, I would be VERY interested to have the reference as it would represent a wonderful new discovery.
φυακακαω
 
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Spiritandtruth2 said “For example, when prodded to do an act of worship to the Devil, Jesus said: “It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Matthew 4:10)” Post # 293

I did not have much interest in entering this discussion but wanted to offer a specific point of correction –
No Greek NT manscripts have the quote Spiritandtruth2 is offering.

Not one use the term “It is Jehovah your God you must worship…”.

Instead, all known significant texts in critical texts read “Κυριον τον θεον...” (i.e. “The Lord God” or “Lord, the God” ) which Jesus says one must worship (Codex Bezae / D leaves out the word "God"). There is no “Jehovah” in this sentence in any variants.


Clear


P.S. If anyone IS aware of ANY authentic greek manuscript which reads “Jehovah” in this verse, I would be VERY interested to have the reference as it would represent a wonderful new discovery.
φυακακαω


• In the days of Jesus and his apostles, the Tetragrammaton also appeared in Greek translations of the Hebrew Scriptures. For centuries, scholars thought that the Tetragrammaton was absent from manuscripts of the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures. Then, in the mid-20th century, some very old fragments of the Greek Septuagint version that existed in Jesus’ day were brought to the attention of scholars. Those fragments contain the personal name of God, written in Hebrew characters. So in Jesus’ day, copies of the Scriptures in Greek did contain the divine name. However, by the fourth century C.E., major manuscripts of the Greek Septuagint, such as the Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus, did not contain the divine name in the books from Genesis through Malachi (where it had been in earlier manuscripts). Hence, it is not surprising that in texts preserved from that time period, the divine name is not found in the so-called New Testament, or Greek Scripture portion of the Bible.

• The Christian Greek Scriptures themselves report that Jesus often referred to God’s name and made it known to others. (John 17:6, 11, 12, 26) Jesus plainly stated: “I have come in the name of my Father.” He also stressed that his works were done in his “Father’s name.”—John 5:43; 10:25.

• Since the Christian Greek Scriptures were an inspired addition to the sacred Hebrew Scriptures, the sudden disappearance of Jehovah’s name from the text would seem inconsistent. About the middle of the first century C.E., the disciple James said to the elders in Jerusalem: “Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.” (Acts 15:14) It would not be logical for James to make such a statement if no one in the first century knew or used God’s name.

• The divine name appears in its abbreviated form in the Christian Greek Scriptures. At Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6, the divine name is embedded in the word “Hallelujah.” This comes from a Hebrew expression that literally means “Praise Jah.” “Jah” is a contraction of the name Jehovah. Many names used in the Christian Greek Scriptures were derived from the divine name. In fact, reference works explain that Jesus’ own name means “Jehovah Is Salvation.”

Lord is a title it is important that God name is put into it'd rightful place.
 
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Bongoon

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Spiritandtruth2 said “For example, when prodded to do an act of worship to the Devil, Jesus said: “It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Matthew 4:10)” Post # 293

I did not have much interest in entering this discussion but wanted to offer a specific point of correction –
No Greek NT manscripts have the quote Spiritandtruth2 is offering.

Not one use the term “It is Jehovah your God you must worship…”.

Instead, all known significant texts in critical texts read “Κυριον τον θεον...” (i.e. “The Lord God” or “Lord, the God” ) which Jesus says one must worship (Codex Bezae / D leaves out the word "God"). There is no “Jehovah” in this sentence in any variants.


Clear


P.S. If anyone IS aware of ANY authentic greek manuscript which reads “Jehovah” in this verse, I would be VERY interested to have the reference as it would represent a wonderful new discovery.
φυακακαω

Clearly, well done, she is tyrolling here a lot these days. She won't even confirm her background as a JW. she simply sends out quotes favourable to the JW's position.
 
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Bongoon

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Most of the Jews did not want to know, they even put God's son Jesus to death, that is why Jesus said in advance of that happening.

(Matthew 23:37-39) 37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you. 39 For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’”

That is why we see the destruction of the whole Jewish system back in 70 C.E. what do think this really meant with regards to Israel that you speak about.

Yet those prophesying were of Israel. And that quote goes :Blessed is he who comes in the name of Adonai.
 
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Yet those prophesying were of Israel. And that quote goes :Blessed is he who comes in the name of Adonai.

● A new Bible index, “The NIV Complete Concordance” has been published for the “New International Version.” The preface of the new concordance notes that in the NIV, as in a number of other translations, “the proper name of God, ‘Yahweh,’ is translated ‘LORD,’” using all capital letters, and that the Hebrew word for lord, “Adonai,” is also translated “Lord,” but with lowercase letters after the initial capital. Occurrences of the two words are listed separately in the concordance.

It is of interest that the listing under “Lord” (“Adonai”) has fewer than 1,000 entries, while the listing under “LORD” (“Yahweh”) has over 6,800 entries. If “Yahweh” admittedly is the “proper name of God,” the substituting of an impersonal “LORD” for that name nearly 7,000 times in his own book surely constitutes a monumental blasphemy, an “act of insulting .[bless and do not curse].[bless and do not curse]. God.” (“Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary”) Would you not feel insulted if most of your professed friends refused to use your name and, instead, addressed you only as “man,” “woman,” “boy” or “girl”?—Ps. 83:16-18.

Lord is a title we have a House of Lords in parliament in the UK, they are called Lord so and so but it's a title, don't tou get the point Lord is a title not God's name.

(Psalm 1:1-3) 1 Happy is the man that has not walked in the counsel of the wicked ones, And in the way of sinners has not stood, And in the seat of ridiculers has not sat. 2 But his delight is in the law of Jehovah, And in his law he reads in an undertone day and night. ]3 And he will certainly become like a tree planted by streams of water, That gives its own fruit in its season And the foliage of which does not wither, And everything he does will succeed.

Check this scripture in you Bible's that's why God's name is to be sanctified in the Lord's prayer

(Psalm 83:18) 18 That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
 
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Bongoon

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Did The Lord not proclaim his name to Moses? The Lord, The Lord God.

5 And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord.

6 And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

10 And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the Lord: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.

11 Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.

This is good news. And this too.

12 Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:

13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:

14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;

16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.

17 Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

18 The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.

19 All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.

20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

23 Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel.

24 For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the Lord thy God thrice in the year.

25 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.

26 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

27 And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

28 And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.

30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.

31 And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.

32 And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the Lord had spoken with him in mount Sinai.

33 And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.

34 But when Moses went in before the Lord to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.

35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.
 
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Did The Lord not proclaim his name to Moses? The Lord, The Lord God.

5 And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord.

6 And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

10 And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the Lord: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.

11 Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.

This is good news. And this too.

12 Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:

13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:

14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;

16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.

17 Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

18 The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.

19 All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.

20 But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

23 Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel.

24 For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the Lord thy God thrice in the year.

25 Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.

26 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

27 And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

28 And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.

30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.

31 And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.

32 And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the Lord had spoken with him in mount Sinai.

33 And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.

34 But when Moses went in before the Lord to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.

35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures is not included in this list but did translate the Divine Name, Jehovah, 6973 times in the Hebrew scriptures and 237 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures making a total of 7,210 occurrences. (See NW Translation, Ref. Ed. 1984 p. 6)

1. King James Version 1611 - Jehovah - Ex.6:3;Ps.83:18;Is.12:2,26:4
2. American Standard Version 1901 - Jehovah - 6823 times (approx..)
3. An American Translation by Smith&Goodspeed 1935 - Yahweh at Ex.6:3;3:15
4. Bible in Living English by Steven T.Byington 1972 - Jehovah 6823 times
5. Holy Scriptures by J.N.Darby 1882 Jehovah - 6823 times
6. Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson 1864 - Jehovah - Matthew 21:42 etc.
7. Jerusalem Bible(Catholic) 1966 - Yahweh - 6823 times
8. New English Bible 1970 - Jehovah - Ex.3:15;6:3
9. Emphasized Bible by J.B.Rotherham 1878-1902 - Yahweh - 6823 times
10. Good News Bible -Today's English Ver. 1976 - Yahweh - Ex.3:15 footnote
11. Living Bible 1972 - Jehovah - 313 times, Ps.83:18 etc.
12. Revised Version 1885 - Jehovah - Ex.6:3;Ps.83:18;Is.12:2;26:4
13. M.L.B. - New Berkeley Version - Jehovah - Ps.8:1,9;16:2 Yahweh - Hosea 12:2
14. New Jerusalem Bible - 1985 Yahweh - 6823 times
15. English Version for the Deaf 1987 - Yahweh - Ps.83:18; Is.42:8; Ex.3:15
16. Literal Translation by Jay P.Green 1987 - Jehovah - 6823 times
17. Webster Bible by Noah Webster 1833 - Jehovah - Ex.6:3;Ps.83:18;Is.12:2
18. Holy Scriptures by Jewish Pub.Soc. - Tetragrammaton - Ex.6:3
19. Amplified Bible 1965 - Yaweh - Ex.6:3
20. Young's Literal Translation - Jehovah - 6823 times

All these Bibles that refer to Jehovah's name cannot all be wrong can they?

Reason on the scriptures Lord and God are Titles even Satan is called a God of this system of things

(2 Corinthians 4:3-6) 3 If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through. 5 For we are preaching, not about ourselves, but about Jesus Christ as Lord and ourselves as your slaves for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God is the one who said: “Let the light shine out of darkness,” and he has shone on our hearts to illuminate them with the glorious knowledge of God by the face of Christ.
 
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Spiritandtruth2 said “For example, when prodded to do an act of worship to the Devil, Jesus said: “It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Matthew 4:10)” Post # 293


Clear explained : I did not have much interest in entering this discussion but wanted to offer a specific point of correction –
No Greek NT manscripts have the quote Spiritandtruth2 is offering.

Not one use the term
“It is Jehovah your God you must worship…”.

Instead, all known significant texts in critical texts read
“Κυριον τον θεον...” (i.e. “The Lord God” or “Lord, the God” ) which Jesus says one must worship (Codex Bezae / D leaves out the word "God"). There is no “Jehovah” in this sentence in any variants.


Clear

P.S. If anyone IS aware of ANY authentic greek manuscript which reads “Jehovah” in this verse, I would be VERY interested to have the reference as it would represent a wonderful new discovery.
φυακακαω


Hi Spiritandtruth2;

None of your posted "answer" changes the point. Your quote of this specific verse is incorrect.

My point was NOT that your theology is correct or incorrect and I am NOT trying to express any sentiment against any specific Christian movement. I think many of the theological points made by Jehovah's witnesses are perfectly correct. I am merely saying your specific quote, as you quoted it, does not exist in any known greek new testament or fragment/papyri that is listed in modern critical texts. In this specific verse, you will want to quote it differently if you want your quote to be correct.

Again, if anyone knows about the existence of ANY greek fragment or greek NT papyri that shows otherwise, I would be very, very interested to hear about it.

Spiritandtruth2, I wish you a wonderful spiritual journey.


Clear
φυνεσεσιω
 
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Hi Spiritandtruth2;

None of your posted "answer" changes the point. Your quote of this specific verse is incorrect.

My point was NOT that your theology is correct or incorrect and I am NOT trying to express any sentiment against any specific Christian movement. I think many of the JW points are correct. I am merely saying your quote, as you quoted it, does not exist in any known greek new testament or fragment/papyri that is listed in modern critical texts. In this specific verse, you will want to quote it differently if you want your quote to be correct.

Again, if anyone knows about the existence of ANY greek fragment or greek NT papyri that shows otherwise, I would be very, very interested to hear about it.

Spiritandtruth2, I wish you a wonderful spiritual journey.


Clear

Who do you think Jesus was referring to when he said that to Satan, can you answer me please as Jesus was quoting from the Hebrew scriptures.


(Deuteronomy 6:13) Jehovah your God you should fear, and him you should serve, and by his name you should swear.

(Deuteronomy 10:20) “Jehovah your God you should fear, him you should serve, to him you should cling, and by his name you should swear.

Deuteronomy 6:13

Deuteronomy 6:13 Darby Translation (DARBY)

13 Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.

Darby Translation (DARBY)



Devarim 6:13 Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

13 Thou shalt fear Hashem Eloheicha, and serve Him, and shalt swear by Shmo.
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)


"HaShem" is literally "The Name", הַשֵּׁם in Hebrew. It's used by some religious Jews as a way of avoiding saying the name of God directly, which would be seen as disrespectful. You may also see the name God written as "G-d" by American Jews; it's the same sort of thing.

So God has a name yes?

God is given a many different names in the Torah. "The" name is יְהוָה, which is often given as "Yahweh" or "Jehovah". (The latter is a Latinization.) A better pronunciation would be "yehvah", but it's never actually read that way. When you encounter it in text, you say "Adonai".

Adonai is אֲדֹנָי in Hebrew, literally "Lords". (The pluralism is intended as a sign of respect, rather than indicating that there's more than one of them; it's like the royal "we".). It's also sometimes written יי, roughly "YY", but still pronounced "Adonai".

"Elohim" is also a plural, and "El" is another name for "God", literally meaning "power". It's also used to refer to "gods" in general, but when "Elohim" means "God" it's the same kind of royal "we".

They'll use all of them, like in the first of the Ten Commandments; "אָנֹכִי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ", I am the Lord (Adonai) thy God (Elohecha, conjugated so that it's "thy god"). And it ends with "ינפ-לע םירחא םיהלא ךל-היהי אל", thou shalt have no other gods (elohohim) before me (ani, the same pronoun used for humans).
 
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Clearly

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Spiritandtruth2 :

You are offering a lot of irrelevant claims that have NOTHING to do with correcting your mistake.

Do you know of a single Greek manuscript, papyri or even a Greek fragment that actually has the word "jehovah" in the verse where you attempted to quote it? Does ANYONE in the forum know of ANY such fragment or manuscript?

That is the point. You are trying to add a word into the text that does not exist. IF you do not know of any greek text that actually has "jehovah" in this spot, then that is fine, otherwise, the irrelevant stream of claims does not correct your mistake.

Do you understand?

Clear
 
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Spiritandtruth2 :

You are offering a lot of irrelevant claims that have NOTHING to do with correcting your mistake.

Do you know of a single Greek manuscript, papyri or even a Greek fragment that actually has the word "jehovah" in the verse where you attempted to quote it? Does ANYONE in the forum know of ANY such fragment or manuscript?

That is the point. You are trying to add a word into the text that does not exist. IF you do not know of any greek text that actually has "jehovah" in this spot, then that is fine, otherwise, the irrelevant stream of claims does not correct your mistake.
Clear

Do you understand?

Your heart doesn't understand, by not reasoning correctly, so that's sad.

No mistake made, only your non-ability to see the truth of God's word.

Hope you do, one day.
 
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