Does being a Teetotaler Make One a Better Christian?

Gregory Thompson

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A question:

What is a "better" Christian. IS there such a thing?

oh yah . many are called but few are chosen dontcha know?

that's a good question . i have many memories of striving to be that "upper level" christian that's outlined in the new testament . and then after all the striving realized its a maturity thing . there's mature christians who are motivated by love and have confidence on the day of judgment . and then there is fear . it motivates us to do all sorts of things that would be obviously evil if they weren't branded religious .
 
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OGM

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GratiaCorpusChristi said:
If that's a saying- and I've never heard it- it's a stupid one. There's a difference between caffeine and heroin.
Yeah-I would not place a glass of dinner wine in the same class as a hypodermic injection of methamphetamine. Nor do I feel a beer is some magical gateway to crack-cocaine.
 
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Rick Otto

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oh yah . many are called but few are chosen dontcha know?

that's a good question . i have many memories of striving to be that "upper level" christian that's outlined in the new testament . and then after all the striving realized its a maturity thing . there's mature christians who are motivated by love and have confidence on the day of judgment . and then there is fear . it motivates us to do all sorts of things that would be obviously evil if they weren't branded religious .

Even amongst fear free Christians, some will earn more and better rewards in heaven. So "better" is a valid adjective but Britney's question is to broad - without enough context to indicate better in one, some, or every way.
 
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The Herd Principle

A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.

"In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first.

In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers.

Cliff Clavin (Cheers)


Lol, not too sure it works this way, but that's funny. ^_^

I don't worry much about it. I'll drink if/when I want to or the occasion calls for it, but since I don't actually care much for alcohol, I'm not worried.

I do believe Jesus turned water into wine, and served wine, saying "This is My blood". So, IMO, it isn't a matter that God requires us to abstain.

Is one who doesn't drink at all better than one who does? Not at all.

Now, someone who is weak toward alcohol is going to be better in himself generally speaking when he doesn't drink, compared to himself when he does. But ... That's not what you were asking. :)
 
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BobRyan

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My point was that drug abuse is wrong for Christians and recreational use of drugs - is drug abuse.

The idea that Caffeine has no bad affects on the body so we should be able to engage in that form of drug abuse all day long as Christians is a poorly informed idea.

Top 10
10 Harmful Effects of Caffeine


Recall that cigarette smoking was at one time "therapeutic" according to "doctors".



The hidden dangers of caffeine: How coffee causes exhaustion, fatigue and addiction

How Caffeine During Pregnancy Can Damage Your Baby


Coffee Addiction - Caffeine Side Effects & Dangers



in Christ,

Bob
 
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Melethiel

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Caffeine, like most substances, has both helpful and harmful effects. Yes, it's bad during pregnancy, can exacerbate heart conditions, and can cause increased fatigue during long term use. But there has also been recent research that shows benefits with prevention of diabetes, assistance with weight loss, and improved memory. I know I certainly couldn't get through 12 hour night shifts without it.

The key is moderation, as with most substances. Alcohol has very damaging effects in excess (I've certainly taken care of my share of people dying from complications of alcoholism), and very real benefits in moderation.
 
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brinny

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Originally Posted by Michael Collum View Post
oh yah . many are called but few are chosen dontcha know?

that's a good question . i have many memories of striving to be that "upper level" christian that's outlined in the new testament . and then after all the striving realized its a maturity thing . there's mature christians who are motivated by love and have confidence on the day of judgment . and then there is fear . it motivates us to do all sorts of things that would be obviously evil if they weren't branded religious .

Even amongst fear free Christians, some will earn more and better rewards in heaven. So "better" is a valid adjective but Britney's question is to broad - without enough context to indicate better in one, some, or every way.

Kinda reminds me of the conversation James and John had with Jesus, brother
4chsmu1.gif


"And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire. And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you? They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory." ~Mark 10:35-37
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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I don't think we can buy alcohol at 95% (190 proof) in my country and I've never thought of alcohol as tasting good. The whisky I drink tastes interesting but a glass of water tastes better. :)

Yes well.. I didn't drink it for the taste, but for the effect it gave.

Question is: Is it a sin if you drink it for the effect?

Do you drink beer, or wine, or whatever because you like the taste.. or because you like the little buzz you get? Is it a sin if you drink to get a slight buzz to relax you?
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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Caffeine...

The key is moderation, as with most substances. Alcohol has very damaging effects in excess (I've certainly taken care of my share of people dying from complications of alcoholism), and very real benefits in moderation.
Let us come to caffeine in a bit, if necessary, but for the moment, let us consider this intoxicant "alcohol" from the Scripture.

Those which think 'moderation' for a substance which by its very nature is 'toxic', yes even poisonous, in any amount, great or small, are "deceived" by it, and are therefore "not wise", even as described Scripturally.
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Proverbs 20:1
Take special notice that this text is clear, in that it does not mention anything about "quantity" here, but rather its inherent "nature".

It merely states the very nature of the thing, that this alcoholic
"wine" is,

Wine = mocker
Strong Drink = Raging

Classic Hebrew Definition, even Chiastic in structure and parallelism.

And it mentions those who are
"deceived" by them, thinking they are the masters over them ["Wine" [alcholic] and "Strong Drink"], are simply, and without equivocation, "not wise".

Therefore, as it is written:
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." Galatians 6:7
...continuing looking at the very "nature" of this alcoholic "wine", we can see further still, the clear and dire warnings given to us from God to stay well clear of the alcoholic content.

The Bible over and over warns against any alcoholic content, to stay away from it, for it is connected with sin, and the devil.

Of alcoholic "wine" it is stated that ... it "stingeth like an adder" [Proverbs 23:32], "biteth like a serpent" [Proverbs 23:32], "poison of dragons" [Deuteronomy 32:33], "cruel venom of asps" [Deuteronomy 32:33], "mocker" [Proverbs 20:1], "raging" [Proverbs 20:1], "wounds without cause" [Proverbs 23:29], etc... also causing the forgetting of the Law and His Ten Commandments, and causing wrong judgment...and the Bible says "woe unto them".
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20

Woe unto [them that are] mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: Isaiah 5:22
Again, notice the very "nature" described, even without any mention of "amount". Is there a "blessing" or a "Woe" pronounced?

...and so I now ask a few more questions, based upon what we have gathered and in so looking at the terminology above, with whom are the terms associated with, Christ or Satan?

Who is the "adder"?
Who is the "serpent"?
Who is the "asp"?
Who is the "Dragon"?
Who is the one who is like a "raging" beast and lion?
Who is the one which "mock"?
Who is the one which has given "wounds without cause"?
Who is the one who is "cruel"?

Notice the word associated with it is "poisons" and "venom", the very word linked to "intoxicating".

Notice the word "deceived" is associated with it, and who is the "deceiver", the root of all "deception"?

Does "life" "sting" or does rather "death" "sting"?

Dear brothers/sisters, think of the very Person whom we love, Christ Jesus, and how He was wounded without cause [pierced to the heart, pierced in hands and feet and side and head, wounded for our transgressions], for He is innocent, Lamb without spot, and who was the one which did that to Him?

Who mocked Him upon the Cross, "Come down..."?

Who Bit His Heel like a Serpent, and spat venom like the Asp and Adder?

Who wars and rages against Christ as the Dragon?

Who rages even now? And goes to make war with the remnant?

What had the devil even then tried to get Jesus to do? He tried to get Jesus to drink of the poison, and venom [Matthew 27:34; Mark 15:23], and He tried to get Jesus to sin on the Cross!

Christ Jesus poured out His life, the pure sweet blood [the prefect anti-type/reality of the pure juice of the grape] of His humanity, and the enemy sought to give him corrupted and sour/bitter wine..., but even then Jesus refused, even unto the end. Holy, Harmless, Undefiled.]

Do you not realize that Jesus tasted [Matthew 27:34] death for every man [Hebrews 2:9]?

All of these terms are associated with alcoholic "wine" and even far more, and so can True Christians partake of it?

No, brothers and sisters, we cannot, must not, lest we be destroyed of it, lest we desire to mock Christ, desire to infect others with the cruel venom of the serpent...

"Is there a dual use for the word "wine" in common langauge and is there such a use in the scriptures?", that the answer is "Yes."

Well, in demonstrating the accuracy in saying "Yes" to the first half of the question:
"Wine – noun

... [3]. the juice, fermented or unfermented, of various other fruits or plants, used as a beverage, sauce, etc. ..." [Wine, definition] - Wine | Define Wine at Dictionary.com

"Wine - noun

... something that invigorates or intoxicates ..."[Wine, definition] - Wine - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
And for additional purposes...

See that word, "intoxicate"? What does the word "intoxicate" mean?

Word Definition:
"Intoxicate - transitive verb

1 poison

2 a : to excite or stupefy by alcohol or a drug especially to the point where physical and mental control is markedly diminished b : to excite or elate to the point of enthusiasm or frenzy"[Intoxicate, definition] - Intoxicate - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Let us also ask a very basic question pertaining to these, "Can a person who is “intoxicated” [“poisons”] by any amount of such 'kind' of “wine” which is “alcoholic” bring “glory to God” in their drinking?"

What does the alcohol do to a persons health?

It impairs brain activity, slows down reactionary time, attacks kidneys, liver, bloodstream, causing cancer, disease, dizziness, loose morality, causing one to forget, relaxes and/or reduces self-control [thus giving up of the will], etc and is one of the major leading causes of death, abuse and misery in the world. Even the smallest amount begins to break down the immune system of the human body [multiple medical research reports can be cited for these facts if needed, though it should be plainly obvious [but for a brief, http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/yourlif....s_N.htm ], also ask those of SADD and MADD].

However, let us also consider further history of the word "wine":
Aristotle ["...(384 BC – 322 BC)[1] was a Greek philosopher and polymath, a student of Plato and teacher of Alexander the Great." [Wikipedia - Aristotle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]]said,"...Sweet wine does give off fumes, for it contains fat and behaves like oil. It does not solidify under the influence of cold and it is apt to burn. Really it is not wine at all in spite of its name: for it does not taste like wine and consequently does not inebriate as ordinary wine does. ...

...(Wine is a liquid which raises a difficulty: for it is both liable to evaporation and it also thickens; for instance new wine does. The reason is that the word 'wine' is ambiguous and different 'wines' behave in different ways." - Meteorlogica Book IV [English] - The Internet Classics Archive | Meteorology by Aristotle

Merriam-Websters 1828 Dictionary:"MUST, n. [L. mustum; Heb. to ferment.]; New wine; wine pressed from the grape but not fermented." - http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?resour....1828=on

And for many more, consider reading [or checking the references page of][The Bible Wine Question. The Answer To The 'Unanswerable': Or An Exposure Of The Fallacies Of Three Irish Advocates (Professors Watts, Wallace And Murphy) And Eleven Syrian Witnesses; By Frederick Richard Lees] - http://books.google.com/books?i....f=false
The same dual use, appears in Scripture. Easily Demonstrated. Isaiah 65:8; Nehemiah 13:12; Proverbs 3:10, for just three [of many] references for the unfermented/unalcoholic "wine", the pure juice of the Grape.

We should seriously ask ourselves, "Does the alcohol bring life or death?" From the very post itself, "dying" was a word connected with it.

Biblical "temperance" in alcoholic wine is to abstain from it. It is also not only directly connect with transgression/sin, it is also directed to the AntiChrist's thinking to change times and laws of the most High God [Daniel 7:25]. Do not think so? Read Daniel/Revelation. Corrupt wine is always associated with the enforcement of corrupt religious law...
"... We are living in the time of the end. Thrones and churches have united to oppose God’s purposes. The association of man with man, which God designed should be a means of strengthening goodness and happiness, has been a means of strengthening evil and of developing tendencies to rebellion. Men have assumed despotic power, and human laws have been put in the place of the law of God.

It is the reign of anti-Christ. God’s law is set aside. The Scriptures are exchanged for the traditions of men. Satan has become the ruler of the world, and in his hands temptation has become a science. He rules over a vast, well-organized empire. Sin has stimulated his followers into fearful activity. Men have combined to perpetuate evil. The sale of intoxicating liquor, destructive alike to soul and body, is legalized by Christian governments. And those who authorize the sale of that which makes men demons, make Sunday laws, which they give to the world under the solemn name of religion.

God’s people are to show their loyalty to Him by keeping holy the day of His rest. They are to work earnestly to set in operation influences that will counterwork the efforts that Satan is making. The light of truth is to be shed abroad in the earth. God’s law is to be proclaimed. An intense interest in the message of present truth is to be awakened.

The establishment of sanitariums is one means by which this is done. Thus men and women are to learn of the character of the work of Seventh-day Adventists. ..." - Manuscript Releases Volume Eighteen [Nos. 1301-1359], MR No. 1330—The Need of Earnest Effort; Work the Cities; Heed the Message to Laodicea; Page 185 - Source
There is not a single reference to "wine" in the Scripture which refutes these things.
 
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CalmRon

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Yes well.. I didn't drink it for the taste, but for the effect it gave.

Question is: Is it a sin if you drink it for the effect?

Do you drink beer, or wine, or whatever because you like the taste.. or because you like the little buzz you get? Is it a sin if you drink to get a slight buzz to relax you?

I don't believe it is a sin. My question for those who abstain and make an issue of what others do is this: do you believe you gain favor with God because you abstain?

On the side note I make a point of trying different kinds of alcohol when I get the chancefor liquer I try them for flavor ; too harsh otherwise. Beer and wine is a toss up though.
 
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Let us come to caffeine in a bit, if necessary, but for the moment, let us consider this intoxicant "alcohol" from the Scripture.

Those which think 'moderation' for a substance which by its very nature is 'toxic', yes even poisonous, in any amount, great or small, are "deceived" by it, and are therefore "not wise", even as described Scripturally.
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Proverbs 20:1
Take special notice that this text is clear, in that it does not mention anything about "quantity" here, but rather its inherent "nature".

It merely states the very nature of the thing, that this alcoholic
"wine" is,

Wine = mocker
Strong Drink = Raging

Classic Hebrew Definition, even Chiastic in structure and parallelism.

And it mentions those who are
"deceived" by them, thinking they are the masters over them ["Wine" [alcholic] and "Strong Drink"], are simply, and without equivocation, "not wise".

Therefore, as it is written:
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." Galatians 6:7
...continuing looking at the very "nature" of this alcoholic "wine", we can see further still, the clear and dire warnings given to us from God to stay well clear of the alcoholic content.

The Bible over and over warns against any alcoholic content, to stay away from it, for it is connected with sin, and the devil.

Of alcoholic "wine" it is stated that ... it "stingeth like an adder" [Proverbs 23:32], "biteth like a serpent" [Proverbs 23:32], "poison of dragons" [Deuteronomy 32:33], "cruel venom of asps" [Deuteronomy 32:33], "mocker" [Proverbs 20:1], "raging" [Proverbs 20:1], "wounds without cause" [Proverbs 23:29], etc... also causing the forgetting of the Law and His Ten Commandments, and causing wrong judgment...and the Bible says "woe unto them".
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20

Woe unto [them that are] mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: Isaiah 5:22
Again, notice the very "nature" described, even without any mention of "amount". Is there a "blessing" or a "Woe" pronounced?

...and so I now ask a few more questions, based upon what we have gathered and in so looking at the terminology above, with whom are the terms associated with, Christ or Satan?

Who is the "adder"?
Who is the "serpent"?
Who is the "asp"?
Who is the "Dragon"?
Who is the one who is like a "raging" beast and lion?
Who is the one which "mock"?
Who is the one which has given "wounds without cause"?
Who is the one who is "cruel"?

Notice the word associated with it is "poisons" and "venom", the very word linked to "intoxicating".

Notice the word "deceived" is associated with it, and who is the "deceiver", the root of all "deception"?

Does "life" "sting" or does rather "death" "sting"?

Dear brothers/sisters, think of the very Person whom we love, Christ Jesus, and how He was wounded without cause [pierced to the heart, pierced in hands and feet and side and head, wounded for our transgressions], for He is innocent, Lamb without spot, and who was the one which did that to Him?

Who mocked Him upon the Cross, "Come down..."?

Who Bit His Heel like a Serpent, and spat venom like the Asp and Adder?

Who wars and rages against Christ as the Dragon?

Who rages even now? And goes to make war with the remnant?

What had the devil even then tried to get Jesus to do? He tried to get Jesus to drink of the poison, and venom [Matthew 27:34; Mark 15:23], and He tried to get Jesus to sin on the Cross!

Christ Jesus poured out His life, the pure sweet blood [the prefect anti-type/reality of the pure juice of the grape] of His humanity, and the enemy sought to give him corrupted and sour/bitter wine..., but even then Jesus refused, even unto the end. Holy, Harmless, Undefiled.]

Do you not realize that Jesus tasted [Matthew 27:34] death for every man [Hebrews 2:9]?

All of these terms are associated with alcoholic "wine" and even far more, and so can True Christians partake of it?

No, brothers and sisters, we cannot, must not, lest we be destroyed of it, lest we desire to mock Christ, desire to infect others with the cruel venom of the serpent...

"Is there a dual use for the word "wine" in common langauge and is there such a use in the scriptures?", that the answer is "Yes."

Well, in demonstrating the accuracy in saying "Yes" to the first half of the question:
"Wine – noun

... [3]. the juice, fermented or unfermented, of various other fruits or plants, used as a beverage, sauce, etc. ..." [Wine, definition] - Wine | Define Wine at Dictionary.com

"Wine - noun

... something that invigorates or intoxicates ..."[Wine, definition] - Wine - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
And for additional purposes...

See that word, "intoxicate"? What does the word "intoxicate" mean?

Word Definition:
"Intoxicate - transitive verb

1 poison

2 a : to excite or stupefy by alcohol or a drug especially to the point where physical and mental control is markedly diminished b : to excite or elate to the point of enthusiasm or frenzy"[Intoxicate, definition] - Intoxicate - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Let us also ask a very basic question pertaining to these, "Can a person who is “intoxicated” [“poisons”] by any amount of such 'kind' of “wine” which is “alcoholic” bring “glory to God” in their drinking?"

What does the alcohol do to a persons health?

It impairs brain activity, slows down reactionary time, attacks kidneys, liver, bloodstream, causing cancer, disease, dizziness, loose morality, causing one to forget, relaxes and/or reduces self-control [thus giving up of the will], etc and is one of the major leading causes of death, abuse and misery in the world. Even the smallest amount begins to break down the immune system of the human body [multiple medical research reports can be cited for these facts if needed, though it should be plainly obvious [but for a brief, http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/yourlif....s_N.htm ], also ask those of SADD and MADD].

However, let us also consider further history of the word "wine":
Aristotle ["...(384 BC – 322 BC)[1] was a Greek philosopher and polymath, a student of Plato and teacher of Alexander the Great." [Wikipedia - Aristotle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]]said,"...Sweet wine does give off fumes, for it contains fat and behaves like oil. It does not solidify under the influence of cold and it is apt to burn. Really it is not wine at all in spite of its name: for it does not taste like wine and consequently does not inebriate as ordinary wine does. ...

...(Wine is a liquid which raises a difficulty: for it is both liable to evaporation and it also thickens; for instance new wine does. The reason is that the word 'wine' is ambiguous and different 'wines' behave in different ways." - Meteorlogica Book IV [English] - The Internet Classics Archive | Meteorology by Aristotle

Merriam-Websters 1828 Dictionary:"MUST, n. [L. mustum; Heb. to ferment.]; New wine; wine pressed from the grape but not fermented." - http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?resour....1828=on

And for many more, consider reading [or checking the references page of][The Bible Wine Question. The Answer To The 'Unanswerable': Or An Exposure Of The Fallacies Of Three Irish Advocates (Professors Watts, Wallace And Murphy) And Eleven Syrian Witnesses; By Frederick Richard Lees] - http://books.google.com/books?i....f=false
The same dual use, appears in Scripture. Easily Demonstrated. Isaiah 65:8; Nehemiah 13:12; Proverbs 3:10, for just three [of many] references for the unfermented/unalcoholic "wine", the pure juice of the Grape.

We should seriously ask ourselves, "Does the alcohol bring life or death?" From the very post itself, "dying" was a word connected with it.

Biblical "temperance" in alcoholic wine is to abstain from it. It is also not only directly connect with transgression/sin, it is also directed to the AntiChrist's thinking to change times and laws of the most High God [Daniel 7:25]. Do not think so? Read Daniel/Revelation. Corrupt wine is always associated with the enforcement of corrupt religious law...
"... We are living in the time of the end. Thrones and churches have united to oppose God’s purposes. The association of man with man, which God designed should be a means of strengthening goodness and happiness, has been a means of strengthening evil and of developing tendencies to rebellion. Men have assumed despotic power, and human laws have been put in the place of the law of God.

It is the reign of anti-Christ. God’s law is set aside. The Scriptures are exchanged for the traditions of men. Satan has become the ruler of the world, and in his hands temptation has become a science. He rules over a vast, well-organized empire. Sin has stimulated his followers into fearful activity. Men have combined to perpetuate evil. The sale of intoxicating liquor, destructive alike to soul and body, is legalized by Christian governments. And those who authorize the sale of that which makes men demons, make Sunday laws, which they give to the world under the solemn name of religion.

God’s people are to show their loyalty to Him by keeping holy the day of His rest. They are to work earnestly to set in operation influences that will counterwork the efforts that Satan is making. The light of truth is to be shed abroad in the earth. God’s law is to be proclaimed. An intense interest in the message of present truth is to be awakened.

The establishment of sanitariums is one means by which this is done. Thus men and women are to learn of the character of the work of Seventh-day Adventists. ..." - Manuscript Releases Volume Eighteen [Nos. 1301-1359], MR No. 1330—The Need of Earnest Effort; Work the Cities; Heed the Message to Laodicea; Page 185 - Source
There is not a single reference to "wine" in the Scripture which refutes these things.


haha that reminds me of the reverence comic that showed a new christian finding page 666 in his bible and sayin' oh no should I rip it out? lol... You may have missed a page or two ;)
 
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Psalm 104:14-15 (ESV)

You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth food from the earth
and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man's heart.
 
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Sirach 40:18-27

18 Life is sweet for the self-reliant and the worker,
but he who finds treasure is better off than both.
19 Children and the building of a city establish a man’s name,
but a blameless wife is accounted better than both.
20 Wine and music gladden the heart,
but the love of wisdom is better than both.
21 The flute and the harp make pleasant melody,
but a pleasant voice is better than both.
22 The eye desires grace and beauty,
but the green shoots of grain more than both.
23 A friend or a companion never meets one amiss,
but a wife with her husband is better than both.
24 Brothers and help are for a time of trouble,
but almsgiving rescues better than both.
25 Gold and silver make the foot stand sure,
but good counsel is esteemed more than both.
26 Riches and strength lift up the heart,
but the fear of the Lord is better than both.
There is no loss in the fear of the Lord,
and with it there is no need to seek for help.
27 The fear of the Lord is like a garden of blessing,
and covers a man better than any glory.
 
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CalmRon

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Sirach 40:18-27

18 Life is sweet for the self-reliant and the worker,
but he who finds treasure is better off than both.
19 Children and the building of a city establish a man’s name,
but a blameless wife is accounted better than both.
20 Wine and music gladden the heart,
but the love of wisdom is better than both.
21 The flute and the harp make pleasant melody,
but a pleasant voice is better than both.
22 The eye desires grace and beauty,
but the green shoots of grain more than both.
23 A friend or a companion never meets one amiss,
but a wife with her husband is better than both.
24 Brothers and help are for a time of trouble,
but almsgiving rescues better than both.
25 Gold and silver make the foot stand sure,
but good counsel is esteemed more than both.
26 Riches and strength lift up the heart,
but the fear of the Lord is better than both.
There is no loss in the fear of the Lord,
and with it there is no need to seek for help.
27 The fear of the Lord is like a garden of blessing,
and covers a man better than any glory.

The sirach is a book of proverbs? I've never read it.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Drinking a glass of wine a day is very different than drinking a bottle of wine a day. Jesus did not like "excess" behavior...including gluttony.
That seems to be the norm of modern society at least of some members of my family.
 
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