Russian Patriarch Honors Communist Party Leader

gurneyhalleck1 said:

I don't consider it "small stuff." And I'm going to take the advice of a fellow poster in here who happens to attend my parish who told me he ignores you because of not only bandwidth but also the endless Youtube and link stuff. He said, "Oh goodness, I ignore him. why aren't you?" So this will be my last post regarding this. It's brutal.

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Wise man. I've never had anyone on ignore for any length of time, but I may end up doing the same.

Protoevangel said:

Wise man. I've never had anyone on ignore for any length of time, but I may end up doing the same.

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Amazing what the "IGNORE" button can do for people - it always saves time and is more productive than wasting time complaining on things all have freedom on. And I believe you and I have already discussed this a long time ago - specifically when similar was happening where others were keeping distance from you and it was suggested for you to not continue (as said here ).

It does make a difference to know how to pursue peace with all men (Hebrews 12:13-14).

That said, lest we continue with the personal discussion of posters and dishonor Dorothea further by being unable to focus, hopefully people can do what she asked.

Dorothea said:

My husband and I were talking about three different types of government systems: Democratic Republic, Socialist, and Communist. Basically, they all could run well if it weren't for the sinfulness of the people running them and in them.

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The sinfulness of man tends to always corrupt anything and everything that can have good come of it - although from what I understood, anything good can never be sustained by men (even if there were no sinfulness in men) as much as it can be done by Christ.

It has been interesting seeing other Orthodox note that in God's Kingdom, there will be aspects of all human governments present - in as far as the fact that the ideas of human governments have wisdom and good fruit since every good and perfect gift comes from Christ

Dorothea said:

Yes, I agree, and in the book, To Kill A Mockingbird, it does well in showing how live was for many then.

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A lot of them, amazingly, actually fled to Russia and other communists nations - so that does say something when it comes to contrast between what we had and what others had in the day.

I agree that unfettered capitalism is really the same as communism. I think there's a better chance of living a freer life though in system the U.S. Robert Reich says the U.S. has the best economic system...that would be when it is regulated and such. That's why I responded in my last post echoing what my husband said about communism and other types of government systems. It's the people that mess it up. Part of being in a fallen world, I'd suppose.

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Very good points..

Yeah, I hear ya. It's working great so far! Peaceful!

Protoevangel said:

Wise man. I've never had anyone on ignore for any length of time, but I may end up doing the same.

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Dorothea said:

Yes, I agree, and in the book, To Kill A Mockingbird, it does well in showing how live was for many then. I agree that unfettered capitalism is really the same as communism. .

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If people were required to give out as much as they may take in and to help others, things would potentially be different with capitalism in the radical sense. In many cases, what you have really isn't even unfettered capitalism as much as feudalism. Communism, from a state level, seemed to become just that without others willing to acknowledge it when you had others given more power and being seen as more "equal" than others.

I think that some people have way too much time on their hands. The sheer mass of posts is such that you have to be willing to read a book, which, if we wanted to do that, we would read actual books instead of sharing ideas in the more compact form of forums.

It's mostly not worth defending myself, except I would point out that "the masses of Chesterton quotes" link points to a single thread specifically about Chesterton. Whatever.

I agree that, as much as we sympathize with Oriental Orthodox, we are not actually in Communion and so forum rules should be enforced.

throwing down a massive barrage of links also is indicative of the fact that one has not learned to paraphrase or take information from a source and present it well to an audience. In high school and college we learn to pour through page after page of information, and then take said information and present it to the reader paraphrased and holistically put into a term paper, essay, or conversation.

Posts that have tons of links and youtube videos indicate that a person is not willing or does not have the skill to take the information from those links and present it in their own words, so they lazily just say, "hey, here you go. Knock yourself out. Read these five hours' worth of links! I'm too lazy to take the info and synthesize it into a coherent post for you!"

I've always looked at too many links as an annoyance and laziness thing, but that's just me. A few links here and there are fine.

When you have put up links, Rus, you often have a bit of a preview of the link on there, or you lead up to what the link is about and tie it to a coherent point. Big difference. Your posts are often also small to medium in size so that readers who have a life don't have to sit down and read until they get eyebags and bloodshot eyes. You're very much to the point, and I think brevity is important. I often get too wordy! I think I could learn a thing or two about brevity and concise to-the-point posting from you.

rusmeister said:

I think that some people have way too much time on their hands. The sheer mass of posts is such that you have to be willing to read a book, which, if we wanted to do that, we would read actual books instead of sharing ideas in the more compact form of forums.

It's mostly not worth defending myself, except I would point out that "the masses of Chesterton quotes" link points to a single thread specifically about Chesterton. Whatever.

I agree that, as much as we sympathize with Oriental Orthodox, we are not actually in Communion and so forum rules should be enforced.

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In any event, if the topic is a foreign country, I give greater weight to observations from people who live or have lived extensively in that country. It is good to have general academic knowledge, but generally speaking, it doesn't beat experience.

rusmeister said:

I agree that, as much as we sympathize with Oriental Orthodox, we are not actually in Communion and so forum rules should be enforced.

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True. Eastern Orthodox members should remind him of this, instead of encouraging him.

Dorothea said:

I'm sure that was directed toward me since I have responded to posts from non EO's. Yes, the rules should be followed as has been stated by a few of my EO brothers in here.

And for the record, i have given advice that if a person talks to me about frustration in posting in CF or TAW, I have told them to stop going there if it is bothering them. I don't like to see arguments and tension between or among people, especially in TAW. I apologize if my answering G has caused conflicts here.

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You can't do much about online interrelationships between third persons. Other than encouraging peace and charity, anyway. But if a non-EO poster is rubbing against all the other EO posters, maybe there is a reason for it.

If this is as bad and nasty as disagreement gets, I'd say we're doing relatively well. I do appreciate your kindness, though.

Dorothea said:

I'm sure that was directed toward me since I have responded to posts from non EO's. Yes, the rules should be followed as has been stated by a few of my EO brothers in here.

And for the record, i have given advice that if a person talks to me about frustration in posting in CF or TAW, I have told them to stop going there if it is bothering them. I don't like to see arguments and tension between or among people, especially in TAW. I apologize if my answering G has caused conflicts here.

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I don't know if you are the only one, that's why I used the plural.

No need for apologies, Dot. This is the first time anyone has said anything. Your heart was always in the right place, of that I am sure. Since I've come back though, I've seem him constantly overstep his bounds, getting petty and vile when called on it, and generally making TAW an unpleasant environment for Orthodox members. I just think it's time we collectively ask him to back off.

Dorothea said:

I agree with that. My only question with regards to everyone having equality economically and such is I don't see where pride in your work and wanting to improve fits into that, career wise.

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I think people will always find any reason to become focused on others in regards to why they DON'T succeed - or why, if not wanting to succeed, that others need to be on their level. You can have pride in your work regardless - and people who had equality economically often realized that their work was still valuable. They worked on behalf of the unit and the collective - and took their work very seriously.

Granted, Anarchist communism (also known as anarcho-communism or libertarian communism ) advocates the abolition of the state, capitalism, wages and private property (while retaining respect for personal property). But Communism as envisioned originally by Marx was not for that.

Private property/ability to advance with it was never removed from communism - for all Communism is concerned about, it to prevent an individual or group of individuals (usually called the ‘bourgeois’ at the time, while nowadays you would best call them the ‘corporatist&#8217 from deriving power over others from their property. Essentially, one could still own a car or a house since this sort of property is not touched at all. However, one could not onger own the factory or the bank that produces or finances the production of these products. According to Communism this sort of property, which it calls bourgeois property, needs to be in ‘public hands’.

There were many who did well with the mindset that communism advocated.

Many ended up doing very well - in practical example, even in Africa where Russia spread communism with the colonies it had set up, communism was able to succeed well with the system due to how they had a mindset of communalism in place (i.e. "It's about the village" ) rather than an individualistic perspective. There wasn't a lack of incentive to work if knowing that you owned a field and yet were expected to take care of others on it for the village....nor was the mindset "Why work?" that having the same pay to actually feed yourself/family as another


IMHO, It's all about mindset.

Whenever the focus is on someone else being the reason for your lack of success (or your frustration), there will always be a lot of issues. It's very similar to the way people will choose to be petty trivial about interpersonal issues within their sphere of influence (i.e. complaining about others making their time "miserable" - be it at work or at home, even online - because they chose to carry bitterness/have a grudge on disagreements, being nasty when it may suit them with co-workers and then claiming others saying it was needless were "overstepping bounds" in their own imaginations, making things unpleasant environment by the inability to stop trying to compete with workers or mock them when working rather than actually value where others have strengths where they don't, hypocrisy or "crabs in a barrel" mindset with trying to hinder anyone they disagree with from actually living their life and doing whatever possible to pull others back in where they are, etc.).

Not having incentive to work within communism at certain points (because of the economic issue of equality) is a reflection of the same reality of not having incentive to work within systems where you can advance but feel frustrated because you have equity - and don't want to help all to be equal or sustainable....or at least, not so much equal with you that you are held to the same standards of evaluation as others. If another succeeds with less amount of resources as you, part of their success is connected to the attitude they had - of not comparing themselves to others in saying "I wish I had as much as they did." Likewise, if others did well with the property they had when it is equal to others and others don't value it, ti all goes back to attitude - there was an active choosing to be negative rather than learn to value what you already have.

It's very similar to the spiritual when it comes to all being responsible for what they do with the good things (be it personal or public - government wise) that have been given to them since God is present globally. And with him there's always room to succeed. As one early believer in the Church said best:

Dorothea said:

Hmmm, interesting. I see God's Kingdom being like Adam and Eve were when in the Garden but even better. I remember a monk's vision of being in heaven and how people were fed by a slight breeze that came across and through the monk and he felt nourished. I don't think it will be anything like life on earth. It says in the a Scriptures this world is not His and that we are in it but not of it. To me, that means there is not only a spiritual difference but a very different physical difference (appearance). Just my beliefs and thoughts.

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Makes sense - should be interesting when we get there to see it all unfold

Anyway.....back to the show!

Let's talk communism!

Disgraceful, I will pray for our hierarchs. There is no way to defend this, the Soviet system MURDERED HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of faithful and clergy in the mere 80 years of it's existence. Church buildings were DEMOLISHED and the Church was OUTLAWED! And the MP criticizes the EP on being too ecumenist when he praises the Communists!?