EO & evolution

Protoevangel

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Yes, that is a very good article. EDIT: It clearly makes a distinction I was gesturing at - the difference between somebody's interpretation of the significance of some unanimous consensus of the Fathers and Divine Revelation.

Actually, it's kind of a pitiful article, making many of the same assumptive errors he claims "other" evolutionists make.

It is honest though, in that he comes right out and admits he thinks the Fathers are wrong. An honesty that is missing from most every other article or conversation I've seen.
 
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jckstraw72

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Actually, it's kind of a pitiful article, making many of the same assumptive errors he claims "other" evolutionists make.

It is honest though, in that he comes right out and admits he thinks the Fathers are wrong. An honesty that is missing from most every other article or conversation I've seen.

i like that he corrects the evolutionist misuse of St. Basil.
 
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jckstraw72

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Yes, that is very refreshing, especially coming from the evolutionist camp.

especially since St. Basil is being so explicitly clear about his point about the twenty-four hours.
 
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Protoevangel

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especially since St. Basil is being so explicitly clear about his point about the twenty-four hours.
The very same St Basil who is also called “the revealer of heavenly mysteries” (Ouranophantor), a “renowned and bright star,” and “the glory and beauty of the Church.”

But yea, he was just an ignorant fundamentalist... But it's just because he didn't have the science of today to enlighten him, and make his writings "actually true".

"One day, doubtless, their terrible condemnation will be the greater for all this worldly wisdom, since, seeing so clearly into vain sciences, they have wilfully shut their eyes to the knowledge of the truth."
- Saint Basil, Hexameron
 
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What this wise bruthuh just said....

The very same St Basil who is also called “the revealer of heavenly mysteries” (Ouranophantor), a “renowned and bright star,” and “the glory and beauty of the Church.”

But yea, he was just an ignorant fundamentalist... But it's just because he didn't have the science of today to enlighten him, and make his writings "actually true".
 
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And yet we also hear the word fundamentalist[/I] from the other side and martyr complex insinuating that traditionalists think people who favor evolution are heretics and outsiders, which is NOT being said. So it goes both ways...

Please see quotes below:
“For my part, I already KNOW the part about you believing in God. I take that for granted, as I think you a sincere member of the Orthodox Church.”

Why say this? What relevance does this have to the topic?

I think you are not ENGAGING these ideas; I don't see them come up here. And they ARE serious foundations on which to question the assumptions of modern science."

Here is a direct quote explicitly saying that he thinks we are not engaging in these ideas. How does he know that?
“That's why I feel that what I think is not engaged at all; only straw men of what I DON'T think. Maybe everyone feels the same way; in that case, we all ought to nmake a concerted effort to engage what the others really DO think.”

Another direct accusation that we are not engaging with the topic.

“And what I do find interesting in all these threads is the imbalance of things. Guys like jckstraw or Rus could easily pull a gaggle of references to the Fathers and Church leadership pointing to the Creation-only narrative that contradicts evolution, and yet I keep hearing from the pro-evolution…”

Being accused of being “pro” evolution.

“I think we need put CHURCH FIRST, science second.

Why say this? What is the relevance? Why say this unless you think some are not doing that?

“If you are a serious scientist and you're this passionately in favor of evolution and the mountain of evidence is this epic, shoot, I would think just five bullets Power Point style with key points would suffice, no?”

“Final question--how old are you?”

Again, relevance? Why ask for his age?

“What is your vision, evolutionists”

Again being accused of something we are not

There are more
 
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"But yea, he was just an ignorant fundamentalist... But it's just because he didn't have the science of today to enlighten him, and make his writings "actually true"."

so you think making a judgmental snarky comment is an indication of posessing wisdom?

Anyone read the articles about Fr Seraphim? Or are we not to speak of anything negative about him?
 
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Which one would you like me to answer? Or are you asking me to trash Father Seraphim? Which one?

@gurneyhalleck1, why are you not answering the questions I asked?
 
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Protoevangel

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"But yea, he was just an ignorant fundamentalist... But it's just because he didn't have the science of today to enlighten him, and make his writings "actually true"."

so you think making a judgmental snarky comment is an indication of posessing wisdom?
... So you think whining incessantly about perceived slights does the same?

Actually, I'll quote one in your own camp as my final answer:
Well, I stick with mockery because I don't really have time for discursive engagement.


Anyone read the articles about Fr Seraphim? Or are we not to speak of anything negative about him?
Yea, I've read it, well over a year ago. Typical slander. I've never seen anything like what he describes in any of the people who respect Fr. Seraphim's work. That said, I'm not surprised that you like it.
 
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ArmyMatt

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and why are there no compatibilist saints out there? you can post any link you want about a priest or professor, but within the Church they do not have the weight of the saints. nor should they since the saints are the ones we know are illumined.
 
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It is funny how St. Theophan and St. Basil the Great and a few others were brought up, but zero by Father Seraphim, BUT the folks who don't like creationism are thinking of him? :p

and I love how Fr Seraphim is not brought up by the creationist crowd.
 
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I read that article about Father Seraphim Rose that seeks to make him sound like a Protestant magnet for converts and a bit of a wackadoodle with breakaway friends and lousy spiritual fruits. Poorly-written article overall. And it is fascinating how the author, Christos Jonathan Hayward, tries to sound complimentary and neutral about Father Seraphim and yet really ends up trashing his character, a man who spent his life in humility and self-control, piety, and trying to be holy, and yet the author's front page said this!

Christos Jonathan Seth Hayward wears many hats as a person: author, philosopher, theologian, artist, poet, wayfarer, philologist, inventor, web guru, teacher.

Some have asked, "If a much lesser C.S. Lewis were Orthodox, what would he be like?" And the answer may well be, "C.J.S. Hayward."

I thought that was interesting to say the least! Then this guy has an "accolades" section praising him with endless quotes of adoration. No wonder he doesn't like Father Seraphim much. Father Seraphim would never self-accolade!

Accolades - Jonathan Hayward, FED/UI/UX/IA
 
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ArmyMatt

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It is funny how St. Theophan and St. Basil the Great and a few others were brought up, but zero by Father Seraphim, BUT the folks who don't like creationism are thinking of him? :p

yeah, I also earlier mentioned St Nektarios of Aegina and St John Maximovitch, but it is because I read Fr Seraphim that I am a YEC. the saints after Darwin have absolutely nothing to do with it. it's just a perk because I am a Fr Seraphim clone. I just hold off on mentioning him to make it look like I consider the saints.....
 
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I'm a young-Earth Festivus Christian. I believe the Earth was created and on day two there was the airing of grievances...

yeah, I also earlier mentioned St Nektarios of Aegina and St John Maximovitch, but it is because I read Fr Seraphim that I am a YEC. the saints after Darwin have absolutely nothing to do with it. it's just a perk because I am a Fr Seraphim clone. I just hold off on mentioning him to make it look like I consider the saints.....
 
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ArmyMatt

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I'm a young-Earth Festivus Christian. I believe the Earth was created and on day two there was the airing of grievances...

and the feats of strength happened when Samson was a judge
 
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