John 3 - Ye must be "born again" - Water Baptism/Immersion & Fire Baptism/Holy Spirit

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John 3 - Ye must be "born again" - Water Baptism/Immersion & Fire Baptism/Holy Spirit.......

.....Notice the parallels, chiasm, so far:

[vs 3] “Except a man...”
[vs 5] “Except a man...”

[vs 3] “...be...”
[vs 5] “...be...”

[vs 3] “...born again...”
[vs 5] “...born of the water and [of] the Spirit...”

[vs 3] “...he cannot see...”
[vs 5] “...he cannot enter into...”

[vs 3] “...the Kingdom of God.”
[vs 5] “...the Kingdom of God.”

Now, the parallelism, or chiastic structure of John 3, vs 3 , 5 and now vs 7, reveals that Jesus is speaking about what “born again” means, and it means to be “born of the water and [of] the Spirit”. This is directly speaking about water [immersion] baptism [repentance] and the Holy Spirit [baptism, known as the Baptism of Fire]. This is not speaking about being born of the “womb”, since no man is “born again” from the womb.

May the Lord help you read His words in a different light.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

That pretty much means not water baptism for one to be born again; otherwise people could know when one was born again.

It is Nicodemus next question is Jesus explaining how one is born again.

John 3: 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

In response to that question, Jesus eventually explains how one is actually born again.

John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Believing in Jesus Christ is how one is born again.

Now for Peter's presentation of the gospel:

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Peter just told those Jews that had crucified Jesus of their sin because they did not believe in Him and so the audience suddenly realized this.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

So when Peter said "repent", he was referring to the unbelieving Jews to repent from unbelief by believing in Him.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That is why there are few verses of repent & believe because it is referring to repent from unbelief by believing for there are many verses citing believing in Jesus Christ is how one is born again & thus saved.

So the part about water baptism was not really relevant for salvation in receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Proof is here to see what Peter had meant here.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

See how the promise of the gift of the Holy Ghost was to come by? For the Jews, their children and those that are afar off ( the Gentiles ) for as many that the Lord our God shall call.

Note again when this same Peter gives the same gospel to the Gentiles that believing in Him is how one is born again & thus saved.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

This was prophesied to occur by Jewish prophets to the Jews as well as the Gentiles that whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins, and these Gentile believers had received the Holy Ghost before waer baptism.

It is understandable why readers would think water baptism was necessary to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, but "repent" as to repent from unbelief to the disbelieving Jews was the sin they were to repent from and they did that by believing in Him.

Peter preached the same gospel to the Jews as he did to the Gentiles that it is by believing in Him is how one is born again and thus saved as Jesus had said.
 
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Steeno7

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Excellent, you have half of the picture, dealing with the Spirit. Now, please address the other portion when Jesus said "born again", and stated "of the water" "and" [also, in addition to] "the Spirit". [Again see the Chiasm itself]

Again, it is claimed "water" for the first, and yet denied in the "again" [second]. Why do you do this?

Already addressed, you just missed it. It's amazing to me how people cannot see what is right before their eyes. Jesus Himself clarifies what He means with the statement, "flesh gives birth to flesh". Born again. Born from above. Born. The point remains the same.
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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Already addressed, you just missed it. It's amazing to me how people cannot see what is right before their eyes. Jesus Himself clarifies what He means with the statement, "flesh gives birth to flesh". Born again. Born from above. Born. The point remains the same.
Please demonstrate the area that was 'missed'. Here again, notice:

First Birth - The Flesh:

[1] Spirit/breath of God:
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7

And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. Genesis 6:17

And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. Genesis 7:15

All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. Genesis 7:22

All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils; Job 27:3

And it came to pass after these things, that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, fell sick; and his sickness was so sore, that there was no breath left in him. 1 Kings 17:17

Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly? Job 3:11

Wherefore then hast thou brought me forth out of the womb? Oh that I had given up the ghost, and no eye had seen me! Job 10:18

In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind. Job 12:10

The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. Job 33:4

If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; Job 34:14

Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Psalms 104:29

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:4

For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. Ecclesiastes 3:19

There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it. Ecclesiastes 8:8

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of? Isaiah 2:22

Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; Acts 17:25
[2] Water of the Womb:
And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. Job 1:21

Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb? Job 31:15

Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? Job 38:8

As he came forth of his mother's womb, naked shall he return to go as he came, and shall take nothing of his labour, which he may carry away in his hand. Ecclesiastes 5:15

etc.
Second Birth:

[1] Spirit/breath of God:
Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him? Isaiah 63:11

And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: Ezekiel 11:19

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Ezekiel 36:26

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Ezekiel 36:27

And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD. Ezekiel 37:14

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: John 20:22

etc...
[2] Water of Baptism [representing coming alive from death, so one which dies, needs to be born, and have a new birth]:
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6:3

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection: Romans 6:5

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Colossians 2:12

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Galatians 3:27

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 1 Peter 3:18

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 1 Peter 3:19

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 1 Peter 3:20

The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 1 Peter 3:21
Baptism by Immersion in Water, in every single case, for those which knew and were able:

thousands at Pentecost [Acts 2:38-42], "...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.", notice that these were to [1] Repent, then [2] be Baptized in water in the name of Jesus, and then so being obedient and doing as commanded of God, [3] they would afterwards "shall" [future tense] receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, just as it is written [Acts 5:32]. "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized ..." Notice also the following in regards to being Baptized, in how one becomes connected with the Church [Body of Christ] itself, "...and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." and "... the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." No one can be saved apart from the "Body of Christ", since it is only His Body that shall be resurrected unto Eternal Life...

...therefore, one who knows and refuses Baptism, as the Pharisees [rejecting the Counsel of God against themselves], are in serious danger of eternal loss. No excuses will be good enough in that day...

those to whom Philip preached unto [Acts 8:2], "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women."

Simon, the magus was also Baptized [Acts 8:13], " Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized..."

but they of Samaria had not yet received the Holy Ghost, only Baptism by Water in the name of Jesus [Acts 8:16]: "(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)"

the Ethiopian Eunuch [Acts 8:26-40] "water", "here is water", "they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him", "when they were come up out of the water"

see Cornelius/friends [Acts 10-11], being "commanded", "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" They already had the Holy Spirit, and Peter still knew that they needed the Water Baptism and commanded them to be so baptized, knowing full well what Jesus taught.

see Lydia [Acts 16:15], "...by a river side...", "...she was baptized..."

see the Roman Guard [Acts 16:30-36], "...was baptized, he and all his, straightway..."

Crispus and Many of the Corinthians [Acts 18:8], "...were baptized..."

others which hadn't yet heard about Jesus [Acts 19], "...they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus..." and then afterwards Paul lays hands on them that they would receive the Holy Spirit, "...Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them."

Saul/Paul himself [Acts 9:18, 22:16], "...he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized...", "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

Crispus, Gais, Household of Stephanas [1 Corinthians 1:14-16], "...or were ye baptized in the name of Paul...", Paul speaking, "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;", "Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.", "And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other."

Others still being Baptized, that they might meet their friends, relatives, etc in the Resurrection [1 Corinthians 15:29], "...what shall they do which are baptized for the dead ..."

Moses himself with Israel [the peoples] being a type/example. Moses was not only born of water and breath of God from the womb, but also again drawn from the Water and given the Spirit of God, but even also in the Cloud of Fire and in the Sea of Water [rising over the top of them]:
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 1 Corinthians 10:2
The Earth itself is also an example/type, being created in darkness, covered in waters, and the Holy Spirit being present, see Genesis 1.

That is the First Birth as it were. [1] Spirit of God, and [2] Waters being present, and life coming forth through the operation of God.

Yet through sin, the earth became corrupt, and was dying. God sent the Flood and covered the whole earth, yet it too must also be covered in fire at the last day.

Second Birth as it were wherein the [1] Global Worldwide Flood totally immersed and covered everything. Then comes [2] the Global Fire next, to cover the whole earth in total immersion... then comes forth the New life in the New Heaven and New Earth...

The Commandment of Jesus Christ Himself:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matthew 28:19

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16

"...Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John..." John 4:1 [though Jesus Himself baptized not, but his Disciples]

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: Matthew 3:16

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Matthew 3:17

Who son are you? of God/righteousness or of perdition/disobedience? will the Body part say to the Head, "No."

You say you have Faith and Believe? Really?, demonstrate this faith of yours then... for belief is not mere mental ascent but obedience...

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. James 2:18

Therefore:

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: Matthew 7:24

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: Matthew 7:26
 
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WailingWall

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JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How CAN A MAN BE BORN WHEN HE IS OLD? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?


Nicodemus asks, how can a man be born when he is old?

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

Job asks, If a man die, shall he live again?



Could these 2 scriptures be speaking of the same event? Whats the "change" Jobs waiting for? Can it be found in the 1Cor.15 event?


Being born again? Is it an event that happens just before we are brought to the kingdom? Corruption puts on incorruption
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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You miss that being born of water is flesh giving birth to flesh just as Jesus makes clear. There is nothing about water baptism there.
Why refuse to address the fact that both Spirit and Water are a part of each Birth [First and Second] as the Scriptures detailed show?

I ask then, Baptism of Water [Immersion], where is it from, of earthly, or of Heavenly Origin ["above", shall not we be born from "above"]?

I ask as the Scripture does ask it:
The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him? Matthew 21:25

The baptism of John, was [it] from heaven, or of men? answer me. Mark 11:30

And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then did ye not believe him? Mark 11:31

And all the people that heard [him], and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. Luke 7:29 [see also Romans 3:4; Psalms 51:4]

But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him. Luke 7:30 [this means that all that do so stand calling God the liar, justifying themselves, saying God is in error, we do not need such Baptism of Water... in effect saying, "I am right God to not do so, and you are wrong God to require it of me..." - self-righteousness, which is no righteousness...]

The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? Luke 20:4

And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then believed ye him not? Luke 20:5

And they answered, that they could not tell whence [it was]. Luke 20:7

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? John 3:12

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:21

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. John 3:22
If it [the Water Baptism] is of "Heavenly" origin, even Divinely Commanded, and exampled by Jesus Himself, how then is Water Baptism refused? How can one be born again [a Second time] from above without both water and Spirit, even as water and Spirit were required in the first birth?

Therefore as it is written, being "born again" [vs 3 and 7], means,
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5
 
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Albion

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JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How CAN A MAN BE BORN WHEN HE IS OLD? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?


Nicodemus asks, how can a man be born when he is old?
The problem with all these "flesh" theories is that Nicodemus explicitly asked Jesus about the new birth being a fleshy rerun and was told no, he needed baptism by water and the spirit (given through the sacrament). The idea that he wasn't speaking of the kind of baptism that he, Jesus, himself had received is not credible.
 
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Steeno7

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Why refuse to address the fact that both Spirit and Water are a part of each Birth [First and Second] as the Scriptures detailed show?

They aren't. You only see it that way because you are clinging to the word "again", and giving it meaning that isn't even implied. Think of it as being born from above, which is another translation just as legitimate and the meaning becomes clear.
 
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Steeno7

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The problem with all these "flesh" theories is that Nicodemus explicitly asked Jesus about the new birth being a fleshy rerun and was told no, he needed baptism by water and the spirit (given through the sacrament). The idea that he wasn't speaking of the kind of baptism that he, Jesus, himself had received is not credible.


LOL. That's funny. As if Jesus Himself hadn't said that He was speaking of 'flesh giving birth to flesh'. See how you added in your prejudice there? By adding in the word baptism where it is not to be found? The idea that He was speaking of baptism is not credible, as the entire discussion is about birth.
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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They aren't. You only see it that way because you are clinging to the word "again", and giving it meaning that isn't even implied. Think of it as being born from above, which is another translation just as legitimate and the meaning becomes clear.
Again, why refuse that the Water + Spirit is required for each birth [1st + 2nd] as demonstrated through Scripture, even as the word "again" in Hebrew, not merely means from "above, of heavenly origin" but also "again" [as the same word [G509] is found in Galatians 4:6, as "again"], iow 'anew':

"anew, over again" [Strong's Concordance] and "...a second time. This the context makes clear." [Thayer's Lexicon] , even as Peter utilizing another compound word, says "anagennaō", which also means "to produce again, be born again, born anew", but if a person will not acknowledge the Water + Spirit for each Birth [1st + 2nd], these also will be rejected.

Hence why the questions were asked as Scripture gives, Whence cometh the Baptism of John [Water Baptism of Repentance], from Heaven or not? answer me if you will please.
 
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Steeno7

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Again, why refuse that the Water + Spirit is required for each birth [1st + 2nd] as demonstrated through Scripture, even as the word "again" in Hebrew, not merely means from "above, of heavenly origin" but also "again" [as the same word [G509] is found in Galatians 4:6, as "again"], iow 'anew':

"anew, over again" [Strong's Concordance] and "...a second time. This the context makes clear." [Thayer's Lexicon] , even as Peter utilizing another compound word, says "anagennaō", which also means "to produce again, be born again, born anew", but if a person will not acknowledge the Water + Spirit for each Birth [1st + 2nd], these also will be rejected.

Hence why the questions were asked as Scripture gives, Whence cometh the Baptism of John [Water Baptism of Repentance], from Heaven or not? answer me if you will please.

Like I said it matters not if you think of it as born again, born from above, born anew or whatever. The point of the passage is about birth, not baptism. From 'whence' Johns baptism came was relevant to those receiving it, but irrelevant to those who do not...and Christians do not receive 'John's' baptism.
 
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Tellastory

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Again, why refuse that the Water + Spirit is required for each birth [1st + 2nd] as demonstrated through Scripture,

The first birth of the flesh; scripture testify that you have a soul before birth.

Jeremiah 1:5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Psalm 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. 15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. 17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them! 18 If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

So the physical birth has nothing to do with you getting the spirit; and certainly has nothing to do with receiving the Holy Spirit.

The final point of reproof is: Jesus said this that no one can know when one is born of the Spirit, seeing how He referred to the direction of the wind in how it blows.

Then Nicodemus had asked how this can come about in verse 9 for which Jesus explained that it is by believing in Him is how one is born again from verses 13 testifying of His ascension from where He had come and His coming crucifixion in verse 14 from which His resurrection would make verse 13 possible and how believing in Him from verse 15-18 is how anyone is saved as in born again.

To limit God's ability to save someone by water baptism is to deny Him the ability as Saviour to save us when we can call on Him to be saved.

John's water baptism of repentance for the remission of sins paved the way for the Lord in that by believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sin and the promise of baptism with the Holy Ghost from Him.
 
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Mama Kidogo

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The context dealing with Nicodemus seems to be talking about the water meaning natural birth.

The first birth (natural birth) which everyone undergoes. (The water breaks before birth)
The second birth (born-again) of the Holy Spirit.

Water Baptism is not necessary for salvation. Verse after verse verifies this. Why do people keep clinging onto this idea that water is what brings salvation, when the Bible clearly states that John washed people with water, but Jesus, the one Who was coming, would bring forth a washing of the spirit.

Question: Was John baptizing people with water before Jesus shed his blood on Calvary? Or did this take place after? Of course it was before. Thus, after Jesus had paid the ultimate sacrifice, the baptism of water was completely superceded by the atonement for our sins found in faith in Jesus Christ.

101 Reasons Why Water Baptism is Not Necessary to be Saved - Faith Facts

Firstly,John's (the baptist) baptism was not Christian baptism.
Now let's deal with natural birth. Please tell me what man or woman of that day was not naturally born. Such theology seems to make these words of Christ rather redundantly useless.
 
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Steeno7

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Firstly,John's (the baptist) baptism was not Christian baptism.
Now let's deal with natural birth. Please tell me what man or woman of that day was not naturally born. Such theology seems to make these words of Christ rather redundantly useless.

His words would not have been redundant or useless to a Jew living at that time...thinking that being born physically, as a Jew, is what made their entry into the kingdom of God possible.
 
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