End times and Dispensationalism

Muslim end time theology interesting .... what do they believe?

What do muslims do not like about Paul ?



why they have a ruction about the New Testament? what is ruction mean?

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what does it say about a 1000 years is like a day to God ... part of God is that he is longsuffering till his work of salvation is done

One of my best friends is Muslim, having been raised in it going back generations.

And he knows his religion inside and out.

At times, we discuss our differences. I constantly have to remind him that Christianity is NOT a religion, but A Faith - in A Person - in God the Son: Jesus Christ.

Religion, I say to him is YOU doing something to keep yourself from eternal damnation.

I make the mistake, lol, of adding that religion is what the Apostle Paul relates in Romans 10, as what "Moses describeth" - "the righteousness which is of THE LAW," which had, as its intent making one aware of their fallen nature. In others words, the Law's intent had been, that in one's failure to keep the Law "sin... might appear" obvious to one, might appear what it is "sin, working death in me BY THAT WHICH IS GOOD;" in other words, "that sin BY THE COMMANDMENT might become exceeding sinful," Romans 7:13.

By that point, I lose him. He's off on how that Paul is a false teacher, and so forth [though there are some Muslims who would disgree with my friend as to Paul].

From there, he goes on about how that "Shaul [Paul] wrote most of the New Testament - show me where Jesus says he is God, for example.

I grab HIS King James Bible, and show him various passages in John 1-8.

He responds, "well, Shaul wrote all that!"

He is so convinced that becuase he beleives what he does that that makes it correct.

I love the guy to pieces, but he is as lost as can be.

A friend of his shows up. A former Roman Catholic who says he converted to Islam becuase it just seemed much more consistent with what religion should be, much more consistent with living how God expects one to live if they expect to get to heaven.

I say to him that that makes sense to him because it is the same basic idea that the religion of Roman Catholicism is founded on - YOU work YOUR way to heaven. That was your point of reference - YOUR works - no one perhaps never shared with you what actual Christianity is, and as a result, you concluded that what you needed was "a better religion," so here we are.

"BUT God commended His love for us, IN THAT, WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS, CHRIST died FOR us...FOR as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, SO by the obidience OF ONE shall many be MADE RIGHTEOUS. Moreover the Law entered THAT the offense might ABOUND. BUT where sin abounded GRACE did MUCH MORE abound: THAT as sin hath reigned unto death, EVEN SO might GRACE reign the righteousness OF ONE UNTO ETERNAL LIFE BY JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD," Romans 5:8, 19, 20, 21a, 18b, 21c.

A failure to understand that results in Religion - in man's adding HIS works to it - not BECAUSE OF righteousness but for his OWN - "For IF Abraham were justified BY WORKS, he hath whereof to glory; BUT NOT BEFORE GOD. FOR what saith THE SCRIPTURE? Abraham BELIEVED God, and IT was counted UNTO HIM for righteousness... Now it was not written FOR HIS SAKE ALONE, that it was imputed unto him; BUT FOR US ALSO, to whom it SHALL be imputed IF we BELIEVE ON HIM that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered FOR OUR offences, and was raised again FOR OUR justification," Romans 4:2, 3, 23 -25.

Anticipating the outcry that man, in his flesh's need to add to that what he then binds himself to [which what the word religion is all about - about binding oneself] anticipating man's outcry against this ETERNAL SECURITY IN CHRIST, as well as, the flesh's conclusion that this security means one can just live as they please, anticipating all that, Paul, in Romans 6-8 begins to lay out not only Grace's answer to such people, but its solutio..

The problem is the new Believer's mind being re- oriented from his old nature's sin habituated outlook to that of the new nature's frame of reference. Thus, the words that Romans 6-8 begin withs with -"What shall we say then?" and "Know ye not?"

At the risk of offense I hope that clears up some things...

Oh, I forgot to say that I search for and love God. It has always been so. That lots of religions do not paint a fair representation of him, well that is no surprise. The search for a faithful religion has been futile.

Habibti said:

Remember, in Acts I think where certain people who believed in the Christ also tried to make new believers Jews also? Judaizers? The Christianity I experienced "Had a form of Godliness but denied the power there in".

They taught about Jesus the Christ, but then put up all sorts of barriers to becoming part of the "flock". All these barriers are the ideas of man, not of Allah SWT. (To be clear, Allah SWT is simply the Arabic translation of the English word God.)

Admittedly, Islam has its own set of shameful issues, however my personal Islam (Path) suits me. I do not attempt to be suitable to anyone but God any more.

I tutor Saudi College students in English. At 67, I have finally found the joy of my life. Right now, I have a 29 year old College student whose TOEFL score needs to be better. We are having wonderful, gentle discussions about the nature of Jesus the Christ. We both know the etiology of early Christian and Muslim thought regarding him. And, we both have come to the conclusion that there are certain questions which can only be answered when he returns to rule.

We are both very comfortable with allowing questions to exist because "We can not know God".

As to all the disagreements about sprinking or emersion, gays and lesbians, transubstantiation or not, what version to use (I have KJV) and all those other divisive issues, I just let those who think themselves wise fight about it, and I do my best to bury myself in service.

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I study the Bible from the Mid-Acts/Grace Believing Perspective.

Meaning, that of the Three "Churches"/Assemblies of God's people described in the Bible -

1] "the church which was in the wilderness" under Moses and through history to the time of Christ,

2] "the church" He declared He would "build" out of the believing remnant remaining within that unrepentant nation/assembly, in their refusal of Him as their Prophesied Messiah, Matthew 16:14-18, and...

3] the church which He began with Paul, when He temporarily set the Matthew 16 Messianic church aside, Romans 9-11.

We of Mid-Acts believe the church which is His Body is this church which began with Paul, in Acts 9, as Paul was un-saveable under the terms of the Messianic church's requirement: belief that Jesus Israel's prophesied Messiah,,Acts 2 and 3, as he was a blasphemer against that, Matt. 12:30-33; Acts 7:51; 1 Tim. 1: 11-16.

From that, we understand that what was going on in Acts 15 on the part of "the Pharisees which believed" who asserted "That it was needful to circumcise" the Gentiles that Paul and Barnabus had declared had been converted to God, v. 2, 3, "and to command them to keep the law of Moses," v. 5, were confused by God's introduction through this new, unexpected Apostle: Paul.

They were confused as to this, change in things from that "righteousness which is of the law," Rom. 10: 5, to "BUT NOW the righteousness of God WITHOUT the law is manifested...Even the righteousness of God which is by faith OF Jesus Christ unto all and upon all that believe: for" NOW, with this change "there is no difference: for" this change was based on the fact that with the Spirit's declaration in Acts 7:51 that Israel was in UNcircumcision in its having failed to heed the Lord's words in Matthew 12, in its resistence of the Holy Spirit's witness to them, God had concluded "both Jews and Gentiles.. under sin... all have sinned and come short of the glory of God," Rom. 3:9, 23, He "concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy on all," Rom. 11:32.

But this change's introduction was gradual, thus its confusion. Some never got over it - especially those of the Circumcision for whom the issue had always been their outward appearance of godliness, rather than godliness which is in faith, 1 Tim. 1:4.

In short, we of Mid-Acts try to base our understanding of Scripture based on all that. This makes us a group greatly spoken against, even by other Dispensationalists, lol

It is what it is - "all that live godly IN CHRIST JESUS shall suffer persecution," 2 Tim. 3:12.

Still, I suspect you are believing that what history refers to as "Christianity" is a history of Christianity. It is not - that is the history of the Roman Catholic Church; an organization as far from the Christ of the Bible from its very inception to this very day as the Apostle Paul once was, back when he was as lost as Satan himself.

Hence its crimes not only against humanity, and continued cover ups, to very day...

I once asked a church goer 'if you were to die today; found yourself before God, and He asked you "why should I allow you into my Heaven?," what would you reply?'

"Six years in church," and all this person could say was, "Wow, that's a good question - I don't know what I'd say!"

That's religion for you - long on keeping short accounts ["God expects this, that, the other, and then some"] short of the Bible's answer this side of Grace - "But God commendeth His love toward us in that, while we were yet sinners CHRIST DIED FOR US," Romans 5:8.

The Bible, rightly divided [rightly laid out as to its own distinctions bewteen its own things] is the only book that does not attempt to rob God's Son of His glory in this.

So, at this point, I'll cease from going back and forth with you Habi about all those other issues and focus on dealing with you about this concern of yours - your valid concern about your pending eternal state.

I mean, if you are willing. Towards that, ask away about this as the Bible declares "These things I have written unto you that believe on the name of the name of the Son of God; THAT YE MAY KNOW THAT YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE," 1John 5:13.

In other words, you CAN know NOW, FOR SURE.

its the kindness that leads to repentance .... not an ass ... romans 2:4

The actual words of the Quran, copied directly from the online Quran at The Holy Quran online: English translation

Surah 4:
89. They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

Surah 5:
33. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

Surah 8:
12. Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

13. This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger. If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.
...
38. Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).

39. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

40. If they refuse, be sure that Allah is your Protector - the best to protect and the best to help.
...
60. Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

Surah 9:
5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
...
29. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
...
123. O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

The actual words of the New Testament, from the New King James Translation.

Matthew 5:38-47
You have heard that it was said, “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.” But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.
You have heard that it was said, “You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.” But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?

Matthew 26:50-52
But Jesus said to him, “Friend, why have you come?” Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and took Him. And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear. But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.”

Luke 22:49-51
When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord, shall we strike with the sword?” And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear. But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and healed him.


John 18:10-11
Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. So Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?”

1 Corinthians 6:7
Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated?

correct but still an ass

Bro in Christ said:

correct but still an ass

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Lol, brother, there's hope for you after all, takes a man of faith to swallow the truth, as bitter as it can sometimes be

telling the gospel in kindness by the spirit vs

telling the gospel in the flesh so they can get more judgement

read the woman at the well as an unsaved woman hears the good news

Bro in Christ said:

telling the gospel in kindness by the spirit vs

telling the gospel in the flesh so they can get more judgement

read the woman at the well as an unsaved woman hears the good news

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Look, B.I.C, the fact of the matter is that you do not know what you are talking about. So much for your misguided notions of "the Spirit."

That individual related being near the of life. Out of concern for his soul I shared the gospel of Christ and he took offence. And then added some foolishness about "spurious writings." Time to call them on that, and you were still behaving like Peter at Antioch as related by Paul in Galatians 2. Time to call you on that.

In one post you noted " its the kindness that leads to repentance .... not an ass ... romans 2:4." Apparantly, you were too busy letting "the Spirit" guide you to notice the foolishness of calling me to repentence from being, in your fool notion, an ass, while calling me one, at the same time that you talked about how kindness, not being an ass, leads to repentence.

I read your words and just shook my head with a smile at its double-talk. But I left it alone.

But apparantly you have not rethought your foolishness in that.

And now you want to talk about wonen at wells and the Spirit. You don't know what you are talking about and are "to be blamed," called out.

Fact is, if "through the Spirit" worked in the way you continually imply, we would all be on the same page, and the label "ass" would never have come up.

I suggest you learn how to study these out that then guide your conduct by the result rather than by what are no more than your notions of another. Only than can you hope to begin approaching the level we are each to strive for - the level of "he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man," 1 Cor. 2:15, for that is what sound instruction in "the mind of Christ" will allow.

Regretably, my brother in Christ...

Phil 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:

phil 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.


But did I see character Of Christ ? is this his temple like in Matt 23 .... nope since the temple is inside of us at this moment! God indwelling us just like the temple of Old

where by our dealing with people we show forth that Christ does indwell us and they can see it! 1 peter 2:12-15

Danoh said:

Let's see if I get this right - the Koran - a Book some SIX CENTURIES AFTER the Bible's New Testament writings - quotes the Apostle Paul throughout almost word for word.

I quote from Paul's writings and you assert your Muslim indoctrinated notion that I quoted "references from spurious writings"?

Talk about "strong delusion!"

Very well, have it your fool way. You do have the compromise of B.I.C. in his hypocrisy - for he ought to be concerned about your eternal soul not about keeping you happy in your professed ignorance of the truth of God's Son's shed blood on your behalf.

I'm not mad at you, mind you, you're just beyond being compromising the truth this forum stands for - no matter who "the OFFENSE of THE CROSS" offends - it cost GOD THE SON HIS LIFE, what's the insignificant price of your offended self-righteous indignation by comparison?

Get over yourself - get in HIM!

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As is usual, it does not take much for a man to devalue a woman's opinion. It is not the first time this has happened. It seems to take very little to get a man to shouting as if it is a valid way to defeat others.

I am open to various opinions without them compromising my faith. I feel no need to shout and use demeaning speech to advance my cause.

Bro in Christ said:

telling the gospel in kindness by the spirit vs

telling the gospel in the flesh so they can get more judgement

read the woman at the well as an unsaved woman hears the good news

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Thank you. I was a fundamentalist Christian for over 30 years, and left because of the hate speech, the ranting and raving, the unkindness, and the failure to understand the work of the spirit.

I'd been to several other countries doing relief work, and Kenya as a missionary. In Kenya and Israel it became clear to me how deep seated disagreeableness is steeped into human nature, and how little the cause of Jesus the Christ has actually affected human irascibleness.

In sadness, I left and because they worshiped one God as in the first commandment, I became Muslim. Sadly, they have their own problems, some of them exacerbated by Christians.

I have come to the realization that those who actually try to know God are few. I will likely die in that bleakness.

sorry he is ignoring the bible in 2 tim 2:22-26 thinking that argueing that he will save you ... when that is the Holy Spirit Job to convience

Habibti said:

As is usual, it does not take much for a man to devalue a woman's opinion. It is not the first time this has happened. It seems to take very little to get a man to shouting as if it is a valid way to defeat others.

I am open to various opinions without them compromising my faith. I feel no need to shout and use demeaning speech to advance my cause.

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You have all wrong. Til your immediate post above I did not even know whether you were a man or a woman!

Let me just say that I have the utmost respect for women. Thank God for giving us such a fascinating counterpart to ourselves! Women play a very important role in who we men are and visa versa throughout our lives. God bless you all!

Again, I was merely concerned for your soul. I still am. Which means I should not compromise what I believe the gospel of Christ.

I write in caps when I want to emphasize a point and I happen to be posting from a phone.

B.I.C., you remain cluless. Not mad at you as NONE of us is the issue. Just saying that you do not know what you are talking about.

At this point I will leave you both to your last words on this, WE are NOT the issue. Hopefully, Habibti, you will explore the gospel of Christ at least with someone. The best to you in this, in Christ. Remember, neither male nor female are better than the other. May the God of all comfort bless you in His Son.

Sincerely,

Bro in Christ said:

sorry he is ignoring the bible in 2 tim 2:22-26 thinking that argueing that he will save you ... when that is the Holy Spirit Job to convience

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Thank you. I have heard so much condemnation now that I rarely get upset any more. Those who condemn much assume much because who can judge in finality but God?

Danoh said:

You have all wrong. Til your immediate post above I did not even know whether you were a man or a woman!

Let me just say that I have the utmost respect for women. Thank God for giving us such a fascinating counterpart to ourselves! Women play a very important role in who we men are and visa versa throughout our lives. God bless you all!

Again, I was merely concerned for your soul. I still am. Which means I should not compromise what I believe the gospel of Christ.

I write in caps when I want to emphasize a point and I happen to be posting from a phone.

B.I.C., you remain cluless. Not mad at you as NONE of us is the issue. Just saying that you do not know what you are talking about.

At this point I will leave you both to your last words on this, WE are NOT the issue. Hopefully, Habibti, you will explore the gospel of Christ at least with someone. The best to you in this, in Christ. Remember, neither male nor female are better than the other. May the God of all comfort bless you in His Son.

Sincerely,

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Goodbye